The Official Angell Users Club

zalive

Hall of Fame
@zalive So, your posts on MgR/i have intrigued me. You made a post previously standing that it is best to put the bulk of the weight split between the buttcap and the 7" mark. I was wondering, does this make Angell racquets special from a customizing standpoint, due to the weight in the handle being split between near the bottom and the top of the handle? What type of weight configuration would you recommend as an ideal setup, if you were to re-arrange the weights in the handle? 330/305, 330/310, 330/315? I was thinking, if I modified my racquets, if the bulk of the weight should be at 7 or in the butt cap? Thanks for any advice, and thanks for the thought-provoking info you like to share. Interested to see through personal experience what merit this line of thinking possesses.

I can give my subjective perspective on this.

Basically, weight placed at the top of the handle has different effect compared to the weight placed at the butt. Weight at the top of the handle changes how racquet swings much more than weight (mass) at the butt.
However mass placed at the butt shifts the balance towards more HL easiest.
Now as for the rest of the space along the handle, their effect to the swing and shifting the balance if kind of proportional to the distance from those two spots (butt and top of the handle). The closer the spot is to one of the spots, the more effects similar to mass placed to those spots it has.
But IMO those two spots are enough influential that placing additional mass in the middle of the handle is not important at all.

I guess Paul Angell provided customization spots either following the similar logic, or acknowledging that pro customizers as well concentrate placing customization mass (silicone in the butt, lead at the top of the handle) at those two spots. Because it seems that pro customizers themselves think there's no need to add mass in the middle of the handle.

From the practical effect those two spots have the biggest effect in their specialist area: butt for shifting the balance with the least mass added, and top of the handle for changing how a racquet swings with the biggest influence. So the rest of the space (middle of the handle) is simply not as effective for a unit of mass, but also, this space is not a specialist.

When you customize with replacing synt grip with a leather grip, or with a heavy synt grip, you have all the effect as incremental mass is evenly distributed all over the handle. Centre of incremental mass will be around 9 cm from the butt, and the effect on the swing will roughly be the same as if you put the half the incremental mass at the top of the handle.

What's also important: racquet manufacturers usually put some additional mass on the handle side. Something heavy, like iron or lead. If you want to make a racquet HL in its stock form, and knowing that majority of mass of the hairpin is on the hoop side, while both pallets and handle foam are actually quite light, you need something heavy there for the balance. And what they put will likely not be at the butt, but somewhere inside the handle. And since position of this weight may vary, it's effect on the swing may vary as well. Variance of position of this weight may as well create a variance of how retail racquets swing.

Paul's principle is cleaner, he knows his weight positions and keeps them the same for the same options, while big manufacturers may have differences all over the place. No wonder tolerance in balance is big, and no wonder variance in manufacturing will lead to racquet which swing quite differently.

But at the same time Paul offers much options, has variance in SW too, and when you customize, say, bigger SW hairpin to the same weight/balance option, it will swing pretty differently. As a consequence of this and all the options, Paul's racquets will likely swing quite differently if their SW is different or/and custom option is different.

For me there's no doubt that for the best swing ones need to customize his racquet, even Paul's. The alternative is relying on a chance/luck that everything will turn out to be perfect (which can happen, of course).
 
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zalive

Hall of Fame
One more thing about the handle side weight:
My customizing experience is such that I prefer platform racquets with least weight in the handle.
I will add whatever and how much I need.

However, when there's a significant weight already present in the handle, there's a chance there will be somewhere too much mass on a spot where I don't want it for my customization. And in some cases it's impossible to cancel the effect, because customization is based on adding mass.

This is the very reason why I decided for a 290/335 option of the TC100, though at some point of a customization I realized that 300/325 option would be fine for my needs for the given SW (my was 298), and most probably, 310/320 option would be alright too, because for the same given SW it is pretty close to what I did to the handle. However, the prerequisite is given SW. If SW was 305 I'd need to customize handle the different way.
 

smirker

Hall of Fame
I've customized my 18x20 TC97 almost exactly like you. Truly GOAT area.
It's the same modification I have on my two IG Prestige mp's. Remove base grip, replace with leather and an og then add the weight difference at 3/9 with lead tape. It worked a treat on that frame so I did the same to the Angell and the result is great. Lucked out in finding a new Fairway grip on the auction site for £4.50 so that is now installed on the TC97. A different class of grip to those I have used before.

I also modified my TC97 16x19. I had a stock(unstrung) 330/305 version and added 6gms at 12. I felt it had bit if dead spot in the upper hoop. This totally fixed and also made the stringbed feel more predictable. Have been playing with this setup for a while now and really like it. It feel more maneuverable than rf97 (at least twistweight wise) and a personally more enjoyable racket for me.

Did u try to weight it up 12 ? If yes, do u feel weight at 3/9 is comparatively better ?

I have tried weight at 12 but didn't really get on with it. I play doubles mostly so prefer a depolarized set up which might be why I favour lead at 3/9. I only added 2g though. 6g will have a significant effect on sw. Bet it serves well!
 

Carreau

Semi-Pro
My experience is quite the same. PD - three rackets and one obviously deviating (manoeuvrability perspective) from another two (relatively same mass and balance point). Three DR98 - all were different, again mass deviation +-2g, balance +- the same.
I was thinking the same - weight distribution differences makes this difference in manoeuvrability. All these rackets were bought NOT at the same time, I mean firstly one, after some time another, etc.; learn my lesson and now I'm buying at leat two at once. Knowing china manufacturing specific (being not very much precise) and lowering risks that it will be noticeably different in the same bunch.
 
J

joohan

Guest
Another serve practice with TC100. Swapped Angell synthetic replacement grip for Volkl leather (just like my other TC100) and it took care of two things: I am starting to feel the frame a lot better (almost as well as the DR98) and the leather grip absorbs the vibrations very well. I will have to order a size 5 Angell butt cap to make my new TC100 exactly like the old one.

Other thing - I'm starting to like Yonex Poly Tour Spin more than Silverstring. More comfy and lower powered. RS Lyon sets arrived so we'll see how that one works out.
 

FlyingAce

Rookie
my baby has arrived...

Should be able to hit tonight. Will let you know how it's going.
Yt64Glh.jpg
 
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haqq777

Legend
Another serve practice with TC100. Swapped Angell synthetic replacement grip for Volkl leather (just like my other TC100) and it took care of two things: I am starting to feel the frame a lot better (almost as well as the DR98) and the leather grip absorbs the vibrations very well.
Very interesting. For me, leather grips (I used Volkl one as well at one point) - while definitely improved the feel - significantly increased jarring upon contact. Angell synthetic were much better for comfort. Did you add any thing else for dampening feedback besides leather perhaps?
 

CosmosMpower

Hall of Fame
Very interesting. For me, leather grips (I used Volkl one as well at one point) - while definitely improved the feel - significantly increased jarring upon contact. Angell synthetic were much better for comfort. Did you add any thing else for dampening feedback besides leather perhaps?

Agree the Angell foam/pu synthetic grip absorbs shock better than the Angell leather grips.
 
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joohan

Guest
Very interesting. For me, leather grips (I used Volkl one as well at one point) - while definitely improved the feel - significantly increased jarring upon contact. Angell synthetic were much better for comfort. Did you add any thing else for dampening feedback besides leather perhaps?

No, just leather replacement grip. I guess I'm just used to the feel better since I have leather on every racquet I use.

Practiced with a regular hitting buddy on a windy day. Really impressed by Poly Tour Spin. Played extremely well, won the practice set 4:0. He was a bit tired (a fireman after 12hr night shift) but I'm starting to get a good feel for this setup. I'll have to replicate it on my other TC100.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
Very interesting. For me, leather grips (I used Volkl one as well at one point) - while definitely improved the feel - significantly increased jarring upon contact. Angell synthetic were much better for comfort. Did you add any thing else for dampening feedback besides leather perhaps?

Agree the Angell foam/pu synthetic grip absorbs shock better than the Angell leather grips.

No, just leather replacement grip. I guess I'm just used to the feel better since I have leather on every racquet I use.

Practiced with a regular hitting buddy on a windy day. Really impressed by Poly Tour Spin. Played extremely well, won the practice set 4:0. He was a bit tired (a fireman after 12hr night shift) but I'm starting to get a good feel for this setup. I'll have to replicate it on my other TC100.

Are you all playing or have played with bare leather? Bare leather will always be less comfortable than a synthetic replacement grip or did you have an overgrip on top of the leather?
 
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joohan

Guest
Are you all playing or have played with bare leather? Bare leather will always be less comfortable than a synthetic replacement grip or did you have an overgrip on top of the leather?

Played with overgrip in this particular instance but I am playing with bare leather with Fischer Vacuum Mid or iPrestige Mid. This was the other way around - I find better comfort with Volkl leather + OG than with Angell synthetic + OG. Personal preference, I'm sure.
 

scf

Semi-Pro
Practiced with a regular hitting buddy on a windy day. Really impressed by Poly Tour Spin. Played extremely well, won the practice set 4:0. He was a bit tired (a fireman after 12hr night shift) but I'm starting to get a good feel for this setup. I'll have to replicate it on my other TC100.
What gauge do you use?
 

ace18

Professional
So I'm 1 month into my Angell TC100 63RA 300g 330mm purchased from a fellow TT member. I have been using a Prostaff 97 for the last year and a half. I was looking for something with a little less weight, a little more forgiving, and as stable as my PS97.

Rating my main strokes with each racquet:

PS97 1.FH 2. Serve 3. Volleys 4. BH

Angell 1.Volleys 2. BH 3. Serve 4. FH

Volleys: The Angell is much quicker and has a much bigger sweat spot than the PS97 and my volleys have been rewarded. Very stable, great for high volleys, low volleys, touch. I am more aggressive at the net because I have so much confidence in the frame.

BH: My OHBH topspin was decent with my PS97 as was my slice, my OHBH with my Angell is sweet, topspin, flat, slice. It might be time to run around my FH, lol. I have confidence to hit away.

Serve: I have much better pace with the Angell but thus far not as much control. I am hitting harder and deeper but my opponents are having an easier time returning my serve and I'm not getting as much directional control. There are times where I think its gonna click, but not often enough. I know I can get there. It boils down to I hold my serve more often with the PS97 (rarely broken) then the Angell (broken often). I don't have a big serve, I rely on placement and variety.

Forehand: this is my biggest issue. I am really struggling with the FH with the Angell. With the PS97, I'm fully dialed in. I'm not consistent with the Angell and am struggling keeping the ball in the court. Because I'm struggling to keep the ball in the court, I'm losing confidence in the shot.

String Setups: 1st- RS Lyon 49lbs. I used this for about 12 hours, good control, good comfort. It was really fantastic off the stringer. 2nd-my usual setup in my PS97 Lux Alu Power Soft/Sensation hybrid, 51/53. I really liked it at first but after several plays, it really got powerful. 3rd RS Lyon/Sensation hybrid 50/52. Off the stringing machine felt a little dead, 2nd try out on the court, felt pretty good. Probably my favorite setup yet.

I've done some tinkering with lead tape and and am now hoping I've found the right static weight for me. I have a small amt of lead tape at 12 and put a nickel under my butt cap and its coming in at 327grams. A little lighter than my PS97. I took a ball machine out for lunch today and that spec seemed to help my FH. I hit my FH for about 45 minutes and my serve for about 15. I hoping that repetition would turn things around on my FH and serve. If I can correct these shots, I will be one happy camper.
 

Shangri La

Hall of Fame
Volkl leather is thick and heavy. It absorbs shock well and gives good feedback. It's on every racquet I have. Becker leather is great too, maybe feels even more premium. But I can't find them anymore.
 

smirker

Hall of Fame
Volkl leather is thick and heavy. It absorbs shock well and gives good feedback. It's on every racquet I have. Becker leather is great too, maybe feels even more premium. But I can't find them anymore.

Even more premium is a Fairway. I use leather grips on all my rackets and the Fairway is second to none.
 
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Shangri La

Hall of Fame
Even more preme is a Fairway. I use leather grips on all my rackets and the Fairway is second to none.

I've always been tempted since TW started stocking Fairway. But I'm not sure how secure it will stay on the grip without a sticky backside.
 
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smirker

Hall of Fame
I've always been tempted since TW started stocking Fairway. But I'm not sure how secure it will stay on the grip without a sticky backside.

Well, so far, so good. I am well used to wrapping grips, having done 100's over the years. As long as you apply some pressure and tape it up at the end well there should be no slippage. Being quality leather it's thicker and heavier than most leather grips. The "premium" Wilson one on my RF97 was thin and only weighs 22g in comparison to the trimmed Fairway which is 32g. It depends on whether you want a heavy grip I suppose.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
I've always been tempted since TW started stocking Fairway. But I'm not sure how secure it will stay on the grip without a sticky backside.

Why do people not just use a thin penny nail and hammer and secure it that way? It's thin gauge enough to go through then buttcap well.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
Volkl leather is thick and heavy. It absorbs shock well and gives good feedback. It's on every racquet I have. Becker leather is great too, maybe feels even more premium. But I can't find them anymore.

If I use Volkl leather, do I need to go two grip sizes down instead of one being so thick and I assume heavy. Bear in mind, I always use an overgrip on top of leather for tackiness.

Or is the Volkl leather soft and plush enough where you can't really feel the bevel edges as well as harder leathers and using an overgrip isn't advised? Then might as well use the Wilson Shock Shield.
 
Agree the Angell foam/pu synthetic grip absorbs shock better than the Angell leather grips.
I actually needed more feedback because RS Lyon is pretty dampened so I use a very minimal #33 rubber band and a leather grip.

I just play better with a hard leather grip under my overgrip. ***I know the overgrip is a step backwards by adding more dampening but I like the feel and ability to swap.
 
J

joohan

Guest
Even more premium is a Fairway. I use leather grips on all my rackets and the Fairway is second to none.

Fairway is more premium but not more substantial. Volkl is amongst the most substantial leather grips produced.
 
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joohan

Guest
If I use Volkl leather, do I need to go two grip sizes down instead of one being so thick and I assume heavy. Bear in mind, I always use an overgrip on top of leather for tackiness.

Or is the Volkl leather soft and plush enough where you can't really feel the bevel edges as well as harder leathers and using an overgrip isn't advised? Then might as well use the Wilson Shock Shield.

Regarding grip sizes- not with Angell. Angell grip size 4 feels more like, say, Wilson 3.
 
Regarding grip sizes- not with Angell. Angell grip size 4 feels more like, say, Wilson 3.
really? They seem pretty neutral like prince or dunlop... my A pallets are near matches to my Head prestiges

I do flare the bejeezus of of my handle ends though... because I cant have any bejeezus hanging around there!
 

stephenclown

Professional
really? They seem pretty neutral like prince or dunlop... my A pallets are near matches to my Head prestiges

I do flare the bejeezus of of my handle ends though... because I cant have any bejeezus hanging around there!

Perhaps just different grip shapes as well? I am going with B and it should arrive Monday size 3. Picked size 3 in the hope it would be just slightly smaller than wilsons so will see.
 

beltsman

G.O.A.T.
I'm back to my Volkls. Not selling my Angells though. I think a lot of people here with the TC100 would love playing with the Volkl 8 line.
 

Kozzy

Hall of Fame
I think the Angell leather is pretty nice. I play without an overgrip a lot of the time and like it. Also, no dampener. Quite nice. Fairway grips are good too.
 

FlyingAce

Rookie
First impressions
TC95 16/19 RA63 310gr/315 balance Leather Grip
Alu power rough 50/47

Had a two hour hit in a stock form and want to highlight the following:

- I was surprised by how open string patter is, was expecting it to be a bit denser. I personally had no troubles with it, since I hit with lots of spin, but my friend who comes from prestige and hits pretty flat, had real problems with keeping balls in play. So I would say this particular racquet requires fast and loose wrist. If you don't have troubles generating RHS, especially with your wrist mechanics, you won't have problems. You have this distinct feeling after certain RHS threshold that balls stays a bit longer on string bad and you could feel how racquet flexes, if you are able get this RHS it is almost imposible to miss - crazy spin, crazy directional control (both vertcial and horizontal)

- As many pointed out, the power you could get with 70-80% is just insane. I was able easily hit bombs from my forehand side with what felt like perfect blend of spin and pace. Ball flies flat and fast and then just suddenly dips and you could see from your side of the court how it jumps right after it touches a court.

-Drop shots. I read here that drop shots are real pleasure to hit with this frame, but I couldn't imagine that it will be so good expecially considering that it was my first time hitting with the frame. I've never hit better drop shots in my life. The amount of control and back spin you get was just amazing. I only missed once, on other ocassions ball landed withing a meter from net and then just died, thanks to exellent back spin.

To sum up. Really liked the frame and I have this impression that it suits my game perfectly. And in all likelihood going to order another one.
It needs some lead tinkering since it is to light at the moment for my taste, but that was expected.
 
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really? They seem pretty neutral like prince or dunlop... my A pallets are near matches to my Head prestiges

I do flare the bejeezus of of my handle ends though... because I cant have any bejeezus hanging around there!
I do the same with my TC 97 A handle. I flared the buttcap about 1/2 cm larger radius with slightly over 2 cm length with I believe leather, and many wraps of overgrip. Feels amazingly secure and stable. Looks ridiculous, but the feel really is pretty great. I find myself reaching for that Angell the most. I know I like it, but want to experiment on different flare sizes to see what fits. How much do you flare yours?
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
Regarding grip sizes- not with Angell. Angell grip size 4 feels more like, say, Wilson 3.

Which Wilson?
I've seen Wilsons with ridiculously small grips, in the shop, and I had few such as well (PS95 2014, PS95s 2015, both amplifeel), which are actually one size smaller than normal (size 3 feels like 2). It particularly bothered me because I like size 4 and I can play fine with 3, but 2 bahh....
Angell B type feels neutral to me compared to normal modern grips, however I get the notion that everything is at least a bit smaller nowadays. Old Head size 3 pallets (TK76) are pretty big, old Volkl pallets size 4 (Powerbridge) were actually huge. Compared to those big size ones Angell B grip is bit smaller.
 
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joohan

Guest
Which Wilson?
I've seen Wilsons with ridiculously small grips, in the shop, and I had few such as well (PS95 2014, PS95s 2015, both amplifeel), which are actually one size smaller than normal (size 3 feels like 2). It particularly bothered me because I like size 4 and I can play fine with 3, but 2 bahh....
Angell B type feels neutral to me compared to normal modern grips, however I get the notion that everything is at least a bit smaller compared to nowadays. Old Head size 3 pallets (TK76) are pretty big, old Volkl pallets size 4 (Powerbridge) were actually huge. Compared to those big size ones Angell B grip is bit smaller.

Wilson BLX PS90. Powerbridge 10 mid size 3 is quite big.
 

topspn

Legend
Which Wilson?
I've seen Wilsons with ridiculously small grips, in the shop, and I had few such as well (PS95 2014, PS95s 2015, both amplifeel), which are actually one size smaller than normal (size 3 feels like 2). It particularly bothered me because I like size 4 and I can play fine with 3, but 2 bahh....
Angell B type feels neutral to me compared to normal modern grips, however I get the notion that everything is at least a bit smaller nowadays. Old Head size 3 pallets (TK76) are pretty big, old Volkl pallets size 4 (Powerbridge) were actually huge. Compared to those big size ones Angell B grip is bit smaller.
My Angell B3 grip was smaller then the yonex duel g, bab PS, V-sense 10mid and PK Q+5pro. I tried these frames while having my angells so was able to compare the grip size and Angells always felt smaller. I used to also feel some twist so instinct was to have tighter grip when hitting. I changed the pallets to b4 and no more tight grip and feels fine size wise. I swear I have normal hands :D
 

FranzS

Semi-Pro
We had the chance to play with multiple Angell frames last night and we had amazing fun doing so. For reference, I am a 3.5 level player and my partner is a mid-level 4.0. On hand we had Wilson PS85, TC90, TC95, TC97-I and TC97-II. Here are the strung specs for each:
  • P85, we did not measure, stock frame with multifilament strings at unknown tension
  • TC90: 16x18, 339 gm, 318 mm balance, 27.25” length, full bed Halo at 58#
  • TC95: 18x20, 333 gm, 330 mm, 27.5”, full bed Halo at 56#
  • TC97-I: 16x19, 346 gm, 324 mm, 27.5”, Klip Legend 16 @ 56# and Halo @ 56#
  • TC97-II: 18x20, 335 gm, 326 mm, 27”, Klip Legend 16 @ 56# and Halo @ 56#
Couple of notes up front: (1) I have to retract all my first-impression comments on the TC97 18x20 that were negative. I had a blast playing with it this time around, just a superb frame all around. (2) At the end of 70 mins of playing we concluded that all Angell frames played really well, we could pick anyone of them up and not feel any remorse, and (3) the PS85 felt heavier than the TC90 and less maneuverable.

Ground strokes:

The TC90 requires good footwork and timing to get the most out of it. If those two are there, it is a very rewarding frame. The 2nd most unforgiving frame of the bunch (first place goes to the PS85), but when you get the shot right, the pace, precision and spin are pretty much unmatched as a combination. Each of the frames do one, two or even three things great, but the TC90 does more so in all aspects, particularly ground strokes, volleys and slices. Its power could only be matched by the TC97s in our hands, I suspect that the 70 RA rating had something to do with it. At the same time, it was the most muted and as plush as any of the other racquets. It also was closest to the PS85 in feel and certainly the word “classic” came to mind frequently.

The TC97-I produced superb pace, but comparatively was the least accurate frame of the bunch. You’d only notice this when you play these frames back to back, because I always thought it is quite accurate and precise, but next to TC90 or TC97-II, it lacked ease of ball placement. As expected though, besides its power, it also had ton of spin on ground strokes, more so than any other, but not by a wide margin. One thing that worked better for the TC97-I was ball pocketing seemed better and it produced a feel that was crisper with touch shots at the volley IMHO, but that did not translate into more precision compared to the TC90 or 97-II. If you were just playing with the 97-I, you’d think it has great feel, which it certainly does, and consequently offers better placement, which it does not.

TC97-II was the most surprising to us. I really had difficulty generating any amount of spin with it the first time I played with it, but this time, it was very close to the 97-I which has an open string pattern. It also nearly matched 97-I’s power, but it absolutely surpassed it in ball placement and generating underspin, sidespin and long razor sharp slices. It is also quite forgiving as its sweetspot is pretty large, particularly compared to the TC90. Unfortunately, the part that is not as good as the TC90 is its balance, it just cannot match it, and the TC90 feels very light on its feet, whippy!

TC95 felt lacking in all the attributes of the others just slightly. It felt like a frame that does it all, but no master of any. It was a little more precise than the 97-I, similar spin to 97-II, but lacked the capability of under spin of the 97-II or the power of the 97-I. The TC90 had more feel and inspired the most confidence, at the same time when I got tired towards the end, my timing was slightly off and made more errors with the TC90, still a highly desirable frame IMO.

Ratings: TC90: 9.5, TC95: 7.5, TC97-I: 8, TC97-II: 9.5

Volleys:

This was very easy to conclude: The TC90 and PS85 outgun everything else. The maneuverability and precision is just not found with the other frames, although TC97-II comes closest. The only thing that holds the TC97-II back, is its balance being more head heavy, or I should say, less HL. The TC90 is so easy to get in front of the ball and its sweetspot being smaller is not a disadvantage in this case at all.

The TC95 came close in the volleys to the TC97-II, but we just could not find a reason to prefer the TC95 over the 97-II as the later is slightly more forgiving, and equally or more effective.

The 97-I is just not the best weapon in this company; lacked the precision, feel and crispness of the others. By itself, it performs very well, but in this bunch it lacks behind. We could not tap into its groundstroke power with short volley motion, finishing points with it was tougher.

Ratings: TC90: 10, TC95: 8.5, TC97-I: 6.5, TC97-II: 9

Chip-and-Charge:

This is the domain of the TC90 and TC97-II, they were the clear winners. TC95 was again close, but not quite at the same level. With the TC97-I it became apparent that it is mostly detrimental to even try to chip-and-charge once you get used to the ease of doing so with the other racquets. I suspect the open string pattern is to blame for this as it was hard to control and judge where and how to best place the ball to actually create the opportunity to charge. Most of the time, we just put the ball out of bounds or to the net with the TC97-I.

Ratings: TC90: 9.5, TC95: 9, TC97-I: 5, TC97-II: 10

Serves:

This was a tough call in every regard. We tried so many different types of serves and each racquet gave us varying amount of success, and mostly we had to adjust few things to get the most out of each to our liking. Overall though my partner had great pace and placement with the TC97-II, and I did so with the TC97-I as I have been using that frame for more than a year now. The kick serves just jump over 6’ with the TC97-II, and spin serves have beautiful curves with the 97-I, and TC95 gave us a little bit of both but not enough to persuade us to use it for serves. We generated weakest serves, but most precise placements with the TC90. Towards the end, we figured out that we had to toss the ball further forward than we already do with other racquets, and jump slightly higher to before hitting, which then generates good pace in addition to spin. However, serving kicks with the TC90 were difficult, we could not be consistent with it. The only knock we have on the TC97-II is that we had the most sensitivity on our shoulders with it than any other frame.

Ratings: TC90: 7.5, TC95: 8.5, TC97-I: 9.5, TC97-II: 9.5

RoS:

This one was easy, very easy in fact. The TC90 and TC97-II were so far above everything else, it is difficult to compare them. Surprisingly the TC95 wasn’t also close this time. With the TC90 and TC97-II you just think of how and where to return the service and they are on remote control almost, it just happens. The only two issues with the TC97-II compared to the TC90 were (1) lack of comparative maneuverability caused few bad hits, and (2) for some reason my CC returns were dropping short, I just could not hit all the way to the back corner, and because of short returns, I got killed on the next shot. DTL returns were no issues at all, in fact they were beyond effective. With TC97-II the best parts were returning flat serves to my BH with hard slices or flat block returns, they were dream-like and extremely effective. TC90 was equally effective, more so on CC returns, but we had to have our timing just right. Its easy maneuverability paid dividends here.

With the TC95, most returns were relatively short and I had to pray not to get creamed next shot. Left a lot to be desired compared to the TC90 and 97-II.

The TC97-I does great topspin returns, better than others I think, but it lacks in every other area; precision, slice returns or block returns.

Ratings: TC90: 9.5, TC95: 7.5, TC97-I: 6.5, TC97-II: 9

It was so much fun to get all these frames together and play, I hope to do it again soon. There is another 4.0 player with a TC100 near by, I hope we can include him or the frame or both next time too :D

Here is a short vid to help with visualization:

Excellent and really interesting review, Ft.S. I've got a question for you and for anyone else who's had some experience with both Angell TC90 and Wilson PS85.
I own a PS85 reissue (the one available on TW 'til some time ago) and I love it. I got used to it and wouldn't go back to 95" (also own a BLX PS95). So, I'm searching for a stick with just a tad more free power and just a bit more forgiving, but with the same overall feel as the PS85. How would you compare TC90 and PS85? I'm a bit concerned about stiffness: PS85 reissue was listed at 66 RA if I'm not mistaken. TC90 is listed at 70 RA (I know the story about its actual stiffness breakdown). How would you describe and compare the feel/perceived stiffness of those two sticks?
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
My Angell B3 grip was smaller then the yonex duel g, bab PS, V-sense 10mid and PK Q+5pro. I tried these frames while having my angells so was able to compare the grip size and Angells always felt smaller. I used to also feel some twist so instinct was to have tighter grip when hitting. I changed the pallets to b4 and no more tight grip and feels fine size wise. I swear I have normal hands :D

I should recheck. I ordered B4, I usually use 4, sometimes even 3 (though increased by scotch tape to at least half a size), and 4 felt normal to me. Possibly it's bit smaller than average 4 but I never noticed. Or it's just comparing it to above average handles. Babolat uses above average handles, and Yonex when you replace grip with something normal is also above average, for what I hear. However Angell I have feels just average to me.

edit: I recently compared at the shop one Wilson (possibly Pro Open? I didn't pay much attention which one it was) and one Babolat (PD? the same), and Bab size 2 was actually feeling almost identically thick as a Wilson size 3. With digression that Babolat felt normal size and Wilson felt ridiculously thin for the given size.
 
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Hotrocks

Rookie
Good day gentleman....Since your all on the subject of grip sizes, is it possible to order new pallets and butt caps from Paul. I am inquiring for a friend which owns a TC100. Thanks...
 

ed70

Professional
With reference to grips Wilson frames are all over the place with their sizing, My UT L3 is smaller than the Angel TC97 L3 ended up putting a head comfort on the UT as it's a thicker grip than the sublime. I actually have found prince to have the smallest L3. I'm very grip sensitive don't like overgrips so I waste a bit of money over the years getting the grip right.
You would of thought with precision engineering racquet brands would get correct grip size widths.
 
Ok, grip question I haven't found a definitive answer for, and by now I have read a great deal of this thread.

Is the C grip shape truly an "even-sided" octagon, or is it just more even than the B? Even the shape of a Prince racquet is not an even octagon, at least the princes I have seen of friends or in store; it still has one dimension slightly longer than the other or than the diagonals.

The order form says "even-sided" and has a small icon of an equal octagon, but the FAQ says it is the shape a Prince, hence the confusion. So if someone who owns a C grip shape could clear that up that would be great!

(For my part I like a fatter handle, I have been adding strips of veneer to the long sides of my dunlops to make them more like Prince. But I don't want a completely even octagon cause I think that would make it harder to feel the different grips.)
 

haqq777

Legend
Ok, grip question I haven't found a definitive answer for, and by now I have read a great deal of this thread.

Is the C grip shape truly an "even-sided" octagon, or is it just more even than the B? Even the shape of a Prince racquet is not an even octagon, at least the princes I have seen of friends or in store; it still has one dimension slightly longer than the other or than the diagonals.

The order form says "even-sided" and has a small icon of an equal octagon, but the FAQ says it is the shape a Prince, hence the confusion. So if someone who owns a C grip shape could clear that up that would be great!

(For my part I like a fatter handle, I have been adding strips of veneer to the long sides of my dunlops to make them more like Prince. But I don't want a completely even octagon cause I think that would make it harder to feel the different grips.)
I'll try to post pictures and hopefully that helps. This is my regular B shape handle in size 3:
1Fvd6Za.png


This is what the C shape size 3 one looks like on my Angell (just needs Angell Butt cap):
gtKOfHz.png


And here is just a sample of what Grip shape C looks like (bottom one). This is from my Prince Classic Response 97. Size 4:
laWRwM3.png


Hope that helps with shapes. I gel with shape B and C. Not so much with A (flat topped) which is more of a traditional HEAD grip shape. I also feel that grip shape C is much closer in shape to B than A.
 
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