michael valek
Hall of Fame
Is it still possible to locate the tour models new? The OS I mean. Anyone switched from OS to a new phantom? Or from pcg100 to a phantom?
Prince Original Graphite ( POG ) Mid and OS versions
- Thread starter scottatuofm
- Start date
A friend at my tennis club GAVE me a used, but latest version of the POG OS today. He got a Wilson Hammer it because it gave him more "power", and he knows that I’m one of the few, if not the only one in the club that still uses old skool “heavy” racquets. I asked him if his arm was starting to hurt, and he pointed to his elbow support. I told him to hang on to his POG if the pain escalated, but he gave it to me anyway. So now I have four, all second hand and practically giveaways, a v1 from the 1970s, a v4.0 and v4.5 from the 1980s, and this v7 from the 2010s. Hoping against hope this coming weekend afternoons will be dry.
Last edited:
graycrait
Legend
I would like to know that as well. I've gone back to my PCG 100s and bagged my Textreme Warrior 100s. I have POG/TOUR/PCG 107s as well. I'm holding out to see one of these: PHANTOM PRO 100 XR and one of these: TOUR GRAPHITE 100XR - especially this on. I may be waiting a long time. By the time these two hit the States I'll probably be able to snag a used Phantom 100 for "my price."
Migelowsky
Semi-Pro
Hi =), sorry if this one doesn't qualify as a POG, I just wanted to share my new adquisition.
This is the Prince Super Graphite 110, as far as I know is the same as the Prince Boron but for the japanese Market.
I don't have the specs but it's a lot lighter than the POG.
I have a first generation POG and the difference in weight is a lot.
This is the Prince Super Graphite 110, as far as I know is the same as the Prince Boron but for the japanese Market.
I don't have the specs but it's a lot lighter than the POG.
I have a first generation POG and the difference in weight is a lot.
Migelowsky
Semi-Pro
A question regarding the POG 1st generation ( 1 stripe , grommetless ).
Is the handle shorter than the 4 stripes ? I like the racquet a lot and I was considering buying a 4 stripe if the handle was
longer.
When I play with the 1 stripe, the only downside I get is that with my 2 handed backhand my non dominant hand ist almost
touching the lower part of the throat.
Is the handle shorter than the 4 stripes ? I like the racquet a lot and I was considering buying a 4 stripe if the handle was
longer.
When I play with the 1 stripe, the only downside I get is that with my 2 handed backhand my non dominant hand ist almost
touching the lower part of the throat.
BlueB
Legend
By Boron is similar in weight to 4-stripe. However, I remember when I had 1-stripers, they were heavier and had more SW then the 4-stripe.Hi =), sorry if this one doesn't qualify as a POG, I just wanted to share my new adquisition.
This is the Prince Super Graphite 110, as far as I know is the same as the Prince Boron but for the japanese Market.
I don't have the specs but it's a lot lighter than the POG.
I have a first generation POG and the difference in weight is a lot.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
BlueB
Legend
See my comments regarding weight and swung weight above, first.
All POGs have shortish grip. Unless you go for 100 LB.
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Yes the handle of the 1st generation POG is shorter than the later one stripe and four stripe versions.
alter mann
New User
Oui.
The handle of the grommetless is similar to the Prince Classic.
The handle of the grommetless is similar to the Prince Classic.
michael valek
Hall of Fame
If anyone has tour or straight shaft pogos they don’t want, please let me know!!
Is there truth to the tennis urban legend that the oversized Head stick with crossbeam in the throat that Agassi first used when he switched to Head was actually a POG OS paint job? It took Head a couple years to make one that Agassi would accept?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jonestim
Hall of Fame
I haven't, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. The 4 stripe graphic was made the longest and had the most variations within it. It first came in that graphic in '87 and TW was still selling it in 2002. They were made in multiple factories in multiple countries and had small graphic changes throughout it's 15+ years.
Don't Let It Bounce
Hall of Fame
Sort of. Bollettieri arranged a contract for him with Donnay, and he hated Donnay's first attempt to make something like the Prince Graphite. He spray-painted a Graphite and gave it a Donnay stencil, fooling no one. According to Agassi's autobiography, Donnay execs were in an immediate tizzy and soon came up with a new Donnay Pro One that Agassi liked.
His contract with Head came later, after he won Wimbledon with the Pro One. There was a legend about that, too: what I heard at the time was that his Donnay contract had a clause with a giant bonus for winning Wimbledon, a bonus Donnay (and everyone else) thought a baseliner could never claim. When he did, Donnay could no longer afford that contract, and that's when Head signed him. Or so I heard... but I don't think I read that tale in his autobiography, so maybe there's nothing to it.
alter mann
New User
.... and he always came back to the POG OS.
alter mann
New User
Does anyone know, if the POG grommets fit to the Boron?
jonestim
Hall of Fame
I just won an auction over there for three more OS in what appear to be great shape. Two Tour version and one of the most recent Classic 107 cosmetic. I will now have:
1 Four Stripe "Oversize" - so later version
1 Straight Shaft*
2 Tour
2 Classic 107
*(one grip size larger, so I have a Wilson Feather Thin grip to make it feel like the rest and a bunch of lead to make up for the weight loss)
1 Four Stripe "Oversize" - so later version
1 Straight Shaft*
2 Tour
2 Classic 107
*(one grip size larger, so I have a Wilson Feather Thin grip to make it feel like the rest and a bunch of lead to make up for the weight loss)
jonestim
Hall of Fame
I just wan an auction over there for three more OS in what appear to be great shape. Two Tour version and one of the most recent Classic 107 cosmetic. I will now have:
1 Four Stripe "Oversize" - so later version
1 Straight Shaft (one grip size larger, so I have a Wilson Feather Thin grip to make it feel like the rest and a bunch of lead to make up for the weight loss)
2 Tour
2 Classic 107
1 Four Stripe "Oversize" - so later version
1 Straight Shaft (one grip size larger, so I have a Wilson Feather Thin grip to make it feel like the rest and a bunch of lead to make up for the weight loss)
2 Tour
2 Classic 107
Don't Let It Bounce
Hall of Fame
Alter Mann, I'm going by memory here, but I believe the Graphite went straight from individual grommets to a full bumper + grommet strip, and the Boron (and never the Graphite) had a grommet strip without a bumper*. Unless I'm wrong in that recollection, then, a Graphite grommet could never fit a Boron.
* The Precision Boron Longbody, much later, had a bumper, but that's a different frame.
Don't Let It Bounce
Hall of Fame
Double post. And, apparently, both of them in error.
Last edited:
Congrats on your winnings.... i have 4, 4 striped 110's. Have been using them since 1987. I demoed the 100p and the Phantom this week just to see if i was missing anything, and they are ok, but not stable enough even with lead they dont compare on touch, control or stabilty to me. What are you stringing yours with? I'm still stringing synthetic gut or multifilament at about 60lbs. I am 42 now and sometimes I think I should be using something lighter but I think my game is so used to heavy sticks that too hard to go lighter now.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
jonestim
Hall of Fame
I am 44, but didn't take up tennis until I was 39. Over that time I have only used the POG OS as my "main stick" for all of about 3-4 months. For the last 3 months I have been using it about half the time and the other half is with a leaded up Textreme Warrior 100.
I have strung it with full syn gut, poly/syn hybrid, and about 10-15 different full poly jobs. These days I prefer a full poly setup at around 53 lbs. My current favorite is Firewire 17 mains with Tour XC 17L crosses. A full bed of Tour XC is a bit more predictable, but doesn't have quite the spin. Another good one is Tourna Black Zone. Quite slippery and predictable. I'm going to revisit that when the new racquets come in.
I also strung one up on Sunday with Origin mains @56 and Tour XC crosses @ 53. Hit with it for a few minutes last night and it looks to have some potential.
BlueB
Legend
Wrong...
Grommetless, individual, grommet strip, bumper grommet strip.
The regular POG grommets might fit onto Boron. I'll try to pull them out tomorrow to compare...
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Yeah, I have yet to try Poly. Mainly in fear of potential elbow issues and comfort. But may be I will try it....
jonestim
Hall of Fame
After hitting with the four versions, I think I like the newest the best. They are 5-8 grams lighter, and a chunk of that is in the head. 347 strung with OG and dampener. Swing weight probably between 325 and 330. I find I can get them around just a hair quicker so I am a bit more consistent.
JayP
New User
Maker of 1st Gen POG
I'm not sure how many people knew this (or care to), but I believe this information belongs in this thread.
Kuebler lists the release date of the POG as 1977. If true, then the BBC "Graphite 1000" couldn't have been the first all graphite frame made with an "enlarged head", unless both frames were released a year before either company bought magazine ads. As I noted in my last post in the Fox thread (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=368101&page=3), the 1978 ad in World Tennis for the "Graphite 1000" was the first I saw to make this claim. I didn't see any ad for POG before the May 1978 issue - the final issue in this particular library's collection, unfortunately.
Nevertheless, it is entirely plausible that prototypes of POG were being trialed in 1977, and I am now 100% certain that the company that made these first generation POGs was Fansteel, or rather 'American Sports Equipment', a spin-off of the Fansteel department responsible for tennis racquet design and manufacture, headed by David Fernandez (who incidentally also oversaw the development of the first successful graphite golf club shafts at Fansteel, in 1973!).
Fansteel had been working on graphite tennis racquet designs since at least 1974, when they submitted their first patent application. Over the next two years, they filed many more applications, eight of which were eventually granted. Fansteel released the "Super Graphite" under their own brand in 1977 (sold by mail order with "money back guarantee"), but seemed to have made several OEM frames as early as 1975, and many more later on under the American Sports Equipment banner. The grommetless POG was probably the most successful of that bunch. My guess is that when Prince eventually decided to give that contract to Kunnan Lo, it was a huge blow to American Sports Equipment, and was one of the main reasons David Fernandez chose to refocus his efforts on golf equipment development instead.
I should mention here that while Howard Head was credited with the overall shape of the Prince racquet design, the engineering that went into making the POG was largely the work of a Fansteel mechanical engineer - Andrew (Andy) Mathias Cecka, a Minnesotan transplant who was responsible for 6 of the 8 Fansteel patents. Like many of those early engineers in the composite equipment business, Cecka also had a defense/aerospace industry background, and must have worked with David Fernandez since they were both employed at Azusa.
Sadly, Mr. Cecka passed away earlier this year. I doubt that very many people who read his obituary fully appreciate the role he actually played in helping to usher in (for better or worse) the modern era in tennis racquet design and manufacture:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/latimes/obituary.aspx?pid=165190007
I think he (along with other unrecognized and forgotten pioneers of that period, many of whom are now in their twilight years) deserves to be acknowledged and remembered for his contributions.
------------
Ive got a pat no 1977 pog os short handle at first i thought it was a junior racket lol. Leaded it to 370grams at 3and9 and countered the handle cause couldnt get much power with a poly big banger 16l strung at 60 and it wasnt as solid tbh. Doesnt even swing that heavy and Lead deffo makes a difference racket feels solid as a rock now and helps with juicing the poly to its true potential, i heard agassi's pog was around 380 and i understand couldnt stand it without the leadtape but with it, plays like a whole new beast.
Is yours no-bumperguard-individual-grommets one? I have two of them and they have rectangular handle. Even more rectangular than old Head racquets. I find that grip shape only with this version.
JayP
New User
Yep no bump/ind grommetsframe, does it play like newer pogs or worse? Thinking i might upgrade but if it plays the same as the newer pogs theres no point in changeing.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Pog OS comes in 16mm and 19mm beam
pog 90 comes in 19mm beam, and in something less than 19 according to this thread.
Specifically which versions have which beam widths? Anyone have a list of the beam widths of the various versions of the pog 90 and pog OS?
pog 90 comes in 19mm beam, and in something less than 19 according to this thread.
Specifically which versions have which beam widths? Anyone have a list of the beam widths of the various versions of the pog 90 and pog OS?
Last edited by a moderator:
graycrait
Legend
I had a Phantom Pro 100P for 5 or 6 weeks before I traded it for a pair of minty PCG 100LBs (have 8 now - no grommet hunting for me) each got the kiss of the hack saw a day after arrival. However, due to a shoulder issue I am alternating the "shorty" PCG 100LBs with the PCG 107 for the time being strung with nat gut x zyex.
I tried the PP100P with several string set-ups, nothing connected. For some reason the PP100P reminded me somewhat of the Volkl C10 Pros I used to have, just a bit lighter. I think there are a lot of players who would find the PP100P a great hit. I think on one end you have the Textreme Warrior 100 and the other the PP100P. In between those are the PCG 100 and the 107. When I can find one used I'll likely pick up a TT100P to see what all the hullabaloo is about that stick. I have a notion about the Txt Warrior 100 and may extend one to 27.5" just for the heck of it. (Gave my other TXT Warrior 100 away along a Tour 100).
I don't have a proper equipment and measured them just with an ordinary ruler. To my eyes it looks like 16.5mm, 17mm, 19mm, 19mm in the order of "no-bumper-no-grommets," "no-bumper-individual-grommets," "single stripe with bumper and grommet strip," and "four stripes." Oh I am referring to only Oversizes.
No info about the later versions because I don't have them.
Hope it helps.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Thanks. Sweet. Looks like the POG OS may all be 19mm besides the 1 stripe no bumper and no grommets, and 1 stripe no bumper with individual grommets. The 1 stripe no bumper with individual grommets feels pretty good with the thin beam and I guessed it was 16mm, but it might be 17mm.
Anyone know of any other beam widths for the pog 90 besides 19mm?
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Anyone else have any of the beam widths of any of the earlier versions of the pog 90 that may have a thinner beam?
Nope, have 2 one stripes, and 1 four stripe.. all same.
coachrick
Hall of Fame
Those pre-date the 90 series by a number of years.So I just picked these up.. brand spanking new. are these the very first POGs ever made? Doesn’t have the usual sticker i’m used to seeing. Just says made in USA.
Too bad they’re not 90.
Are these the very first iteration of the Prince Graphite 110? I don’t ever recall seeing a sticker that small on POG frame.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Following up my own question I measured 3 pog 90's with digital calipers and found that one of the older 4 stripes had a beam width about the same as the 1 stripe, and the other lighter feeling 4 stripe had a slightly wider beam width along the throat area. It was something like 19.3mm vs 19.6/7mm along the throat area. So it looks like there are some slight differences in the beam width of some of the pog 90's.
coachrick
Hall of Fame
I don't recall that sticker from 'way back then', either. I remember the long sticker with the patent dates and "Prince Manufacturing, Inc Made in USA" and the grip size
Yes, those are the stickers I am used to seeing as well. I’m going to guess that these 2 were the very first versions prior to going to the long stickers with the patent, year & point of manufacture. Going to dig out my javelin & sting.. I think I recall seeing it on of those.
Mongolmike
Hall of Fame
One of my favorite sticks in terms of color. The ones they came out with a few years ago are even prettier.
Sanglier
Professional
You recall correctly. These same stickers can be found on the Javelin and Sting OS, for the simple reason that they were made by the same San Diegan contractor - Grafalloy. If my observations are correct, your two racquets should have a butt decal that has "Prince" lettering on a green field, surrounded by a white ring that lists the relevant patent numbers. This is the earliest version produced by Grafalloy, but it is predated by the Fansteel original by at least a year. If you want to see the most visible difference between the two models, just scroll back one page and look at my photo in post 373, which Photobucket has not yet held up for ransom for some reason.
If the decals are missing, please check to see if there are visible serial numbers (engraved with electric pencil). I'd be interested in seeing them. Thanks!
Thanks! Based on what I can tell, all signs point to the fact it is a variant of the Grafalloy with a different decal. I searched everywhere on the frame and there is no serial number present.
The butt cap seems to be the standard black silver one.
POG on top of the Javelin:
Three generations of one stripe from bottom to top (grommetless, individual grommets, grommet strip + bumper):
Now, top to bottom (notice how the Kunnan one has a different stabilizer bar placement which is higher due to the grip):
Different butt caps (back to bottom to top):
The butt cap seems to be the standard black silver one.
POG on top of the Javelin:
Three generations of one stripe from bottom to top (grommetless, individual grommets, grommet strip + bumper):
Now, top to bottom (notice how the Kunnan one has a different stabilizer bar placement which is higher due to the grip):
Different butt caps (back to bottom to top):
It’s good to know that Grafalloy made tennis equipment. I actually played with few of their ProLite & Pro Launch wood shafts back in the day.
I started playing tennis right after the ‘84 French Open so I must have completed missed this window. Soon thereafter was in the retail sporting goods business for about 8 years and met some of the Tennis reps in the SoCal area (Head & Winn comes to mind..) the industry has changed quite a bit.
I started playing tennis right after the ‘84 French Open so I must have completed missed this window. Soon thereafter was in the retail sporting goods business for about 8 years and met some of the Tennis reps in the SoCal area (Head & Winn comes to mind..) the industry has changed quite a bit.
Sanglier
Professional
The raised "P" butt cap, if it's original to the frame, would date the racquet to no earlier than 1981-1982. I went back and looked at my notes again, and indeed the grip size decal on your examples is identical to the one found on the Grafalloy-made Sting OS (most of which were produced in 1982), but quite distinct from the one on the earliest Grafalloy POG (1979-1980), which should look like this (together with the butt decal, clearly modeled after the one found on earlier aluminum frames produced by Maark Corporation). So I was wrong to identify yours as the first version Grafalloy:
This is a little strange, actually, as the familiar text box decal above the grip, listing all the patent numbers, was introduced in 1980, and had already gone through two iterations (a short version and a long version) before the appearance of the raised-P butt cap. Your racquets would have been cosmetically "non-compliant" if this is how they had left the factory. It's as though some worker accidentally applied the Wilson Sting grip decals in place of the Prince text boxes. If nothing else, this is more circumstantial evidence that the POGs and Wilsons shared the same production line!
This is a little strange, actually, as the familiar text box decal above the grip, listing all the patent numbers, was introduced in 1980, and had already gone through two iterations (a short version and a long version) before the appearance of the raised-P butt cap. Your racquets would have been cosmetically "non-compliant" if this is how they had left the factory. It's as though some worker accidentally applied the Wilson Sting grip decals in place of the Prince text boxes. If nothing else, this is more circumstantial evidence that the POGs and Wilsons shared the same production line!
graycrait
Legend
Sanglier, do have any idea of how many different models/brands and for how long Grafalloy produced rackets?
Similar threads
