speedysteve
Legend
I have a reel of Torna Silver now so didn't ever try cream
Mind you at the tensions I use perhaps cream would last okay for me?..
I'm quite happy with the Tourna, gonna last me a long time.
The gut/poly thread
- Thread starter SpinToWin
- Start date
Mind you at the tensions I use perhaps cream would last okay for me?..
I'm quite happy with the Tourna, gonna last me a long time.
muph
Rookie
Still not the smallest racquet head ever
but yeah I can imagine it doesn't rip super fast if the poly is not too soft...Crossed Tonic with RS Lyon 1.20 (have a feeling I'll prefer Wilson Revolve so I wanted to get this one out of the way and use up the 1/2 set I had) and it played VERY similar to Tonic/Prince Tour XT but definitely less bite and spin. Didn't feel bad at all but I can hit more aggressive with the XT. Just strung up the white Revolve version now, can't wait to see how this one fares against XT! Still a little undecided if I should try out the black Revolve as well...
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Can someone provide a general breakdown of the "life cycle" of natural gut/poly hybrid? I don't have much experience with polyester strings nor natural gut, but I just started playing with gut/zx because I do have a general idea of its "life cycle" being that zx will produce an initial drop in tension which can be minimized with manual prestretching, and then once it settles it will retain its playability and tension maintenance until the gut breaks.
In a similar vein, I don't know the exact nature of the poly tension drop, whether if it is initial or gradual (or both), and in a gut hybrid, whether the loss in tension produces a change in playing characteristics at different parts of its life cycle. I also see that polyester strings have a wide range of tension loss % data, and it does not seem like it is a "end all be all" number for gut/poly considerations, even for people looking to get a consistent response from their strings through its lifespan - Is this because for topspin players, the gut will likely break before it reaches the point of poly death and tension loss?
I have a set of Kirschbaum Pro Line II (16g) around that I haven't tried yet, and I have seen people give mixed reviews of this string based on its tension loss. I'm wondering what I could expect from crossing this string with Tonic 15L and how it is likely to play over time based on its tension loss dynamic?
In a similar vein, I don't know the exact nature of the poly tension drop, whether if it is initial or gradual (or both), and in a gut hybrid, whether the loss in tension produces a change in playing characteristics at different parts of its life cycle. I also see that polyester strings have a wide range of tension loss % data, and it does not seem like it is a "end all be all" number for gut/poly considerations, even for people looking to get a consistent response from their strings through its lifespan - Is this because for topspin players, the gut will likely break before it reaches the point of poly death and tension loss?
I have a set of Kirschbaum Pro Line II (16g) around that I haven't tried yet, and I have seen people give mixed reviews of this string based on its tension loss. I'm wondering what I could expect from crossing this string with Tonic 15L and how it is likely to play over time based on its tension loss dynamic?
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
Pro Line II drops some tension off he stringer and then holds tension rather well imo.
If you want a poly in the crosses that will maintain the playability, then use Max Power.
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muph
Rookie
Looking at the String Database I'm wondering that if a string has better Total Loss (or any other of the Loss categories?) numbers does it mean it will play well longer than the one compared to? Or are those lab results that can come out in all kinds of ways on the court?
Trying to figure out if I can just use that data or if I have to try out the playability duration with every setup I'm testing to be sure how it performs?
Trying to figure out if I can just use that data or if I have to try out the playability duration with every setup I'm testing to be sure how it performs?
ckhirnigs113
Rookie
Agreed. Don't use Cream as a cross with gut if you are looking for durability. I think Revolve plays just as soft without the fear of it breaking prematurely. Tension maintenance is a different story.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
Why not Max Power?
I myself have not tested 4G soft. I'm not sure there's a reference to it in this thread, but check out the index on page 1
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
At 217 vs 233 stiffness (TW String Comparison Tool), just trying to get a little softer feel on my 40-year-old elbow.
Agreed that Max Power theoretically has less tension drop and therefore longer playability. Maybe I'll try them side by side to see if any difference in comfort.
How many hours of playability do you typically get with MaxPower in the crosses, assuming the nat gut isn't the limiting factor?
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
Until breakage. At least that was my experience.
I find Max Power to be relatively comfy for its stiffness; though it's a crisp poly, it doesn't transmit bad vibrations. Even the TW Review gave it good scores for comfort, unlike other stiff strings such as Black Force 4S.
What bothered me with 4G (the regular one) is that the string tends to denting quickly and badly. This locked up the stringbed and made it feel stiffer. I'm not sure if 4G Soft has the same problem.
A couple scenarios I'd like to ask about - if I have a racquet strung with gut poly that I played a few days with already, but I end up either 1. stop playing with it for an extended period of time, or 2. play with it in small increments (once per week or so) for very light rallies with a beginner where it probably wouldn't break -
Would the strings end up losing its playability over time if the strings stay on for a few months? I think this may have more to do with the poly end, but from what I read, the "poly death" effect seems to be more related to how much the strings get hit, so if there isn't a lot of impact on the strings (from either sitting in the bag or playing light rallies), would the playing characteristics of the gut/poly frame remain fairly consistent over a long period of time? (multiple months?)
Would the strings end up losing its playability over time if the strings stay on for a few months? I think this may have more to do with the poly end, but from what I read, the "poly death" effect seems to be more related to how much the strings get hit, so if there isn't a lot of impact on the strings (from either sitting in the bag or playing light rallies), would the playing characteristics of the gut/poly frame remain fairly consistent over a long period of time? (multiple months?)
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
is Babolat team gut a good gut to cross with polys ? better than tonic or pacific gut ?
1990's Graphite
Hall of Fame
Yes by all means! put the sharpest poly in the mains, Wc ultra cable for e.g and your finest nat gut in crosses for optimal slick slideback and durability
speedysteve
Legend
IME Team VS will be much more durable than then say Pacific classic and similar that feels really old school natural), prob a bit more durable than Tough gut and Klip Legend (but these two last pretty well for me).
I find team VS of the current BT7 ilk feels more crisp. Some like it, some don't so much.
Some say that's the coating.
Klip Legend has a coating but it's somewhere between the two for me..
I like Pacific prime bull gut (apart from the price). It does seem to last well and holds tension very well.
It's all down to the feel you want.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
that is awesome since I like more of a crisp and stiff feeling in the gut
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
They'll be fine. Just store them correctly, i.e not where it is too humid, hot, or cold.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
I recently found the best crosses, you cannot even believe it Fedace. Weed whacker and fishing line is where it's at. You whack at the ball and see blades of gra-uh felt fly through the air and you hit the courts fishing for compliments given how well you play with them.
You really should try it. I've been told barb wire is great too, but haven't tried it yet. Of course I mean the real stuff that MEN use Fedace, not the cheap Solinco copy.
Just an update. It finally snapped on me after 80+ hours, over 4 months later. Pretty insane.
Playability was consistent to the very end even with the mains not snapping back in position as much. Surprised I didn't have to restring the poly cross at all. I guess the gut mains were doing most of the work due to the much higher tension.
I'm amazed really, kicking myself for not trying gut/poly sooner. My game jumped up a level in this short time benefiting from this consistency I now have in my equipment, aided by a healthier elbow too. I'm officially done with full bed poly. Gut/poly from now on.
Playability was consistent to the very end even with the mains not snapping back in position as much. Surprised I didn't have to restring the poly cross at all. I guess the gut mains were doing most of the work due to the much higher tension.
I'm amazed really, kicking myself for not trying gut/poly sooner. My game jumped up a level in this short time benefiting from this consistency I now have in my equipment, aided by a healthier elbow too. I'm officially done with full bed poly. Gut/poly from now on.
ToastyTilapia
Rookie
At around 15 hours of playtime with VS Team 17g/RPM Team 17g at 54/51 in my Youtek Prestige MP. It's holding up really well and the gut mains have just started to notch a little bit. There are a few hairs coming off around the stringbed but nothing big. RacquetTune is measuring 52 lbs. I'm really liking this setup, not sure what cross I'll try next.
Fabolous-vs
New User
Hey, I would like to test ALU Power Rough (Mains) and VS Gut Team (Crosses). I usually play the other way round, but never tried poly/gut. When you play poly gut, do you usually string the gut tighter even if it is used as cross? I thought about ALU Power Rough @ 48lbs and VS Gut @ 54 lbs.
purdyd
Rookie
The Big Kahuna
Hall of Fame
It is odd you should be asking that question given this forum topic. I suggest you start by doing some reading on the benefits of HYBRID stringing. Start with Tennis Warehouse University.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Interesting. I am logging about 20 hours and still going on my Wilson NG / Cream hybrid. Cream is holding tension incredibly well!
ckhirnigs113
Rookie
I’m glad it’s working out for you. I thought my experience was a fluke, but I’ve read multiple other users’ testimonials about the lack of durability of Cream in a gut/Cream hybrid. Many of us are getting less than 5 hours before the Cream breaks. It’s enough that I sent back all 10 sets of Cream to TW that I purchased. Obviously everyone hits differently, so maybe some styles are just more prone to breaking Cream early.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
It's not an odd question. If you just want to soften up a poly main, then a multi cross will suffice. Gut in the crosses is a waste of money for the playability duration you get (also, it's atrocious in terms of string movement).
The standard answer most will say is string the poly 4 lbs less. But as you mention poly drops tension more than gut so is that really a good idea? Problem is though poly is a lot stiffer also so I can understand the theory. I really don't think it is that important what you starting tension is as long as you don't do a crazy difference which probably is not the best for the racquet and not crazy high or low tension. Mid 50's is a good starting point if you have never tried it. I have been doing gut/poly at 54/52 lbs.
my first foray with gut/poly:
- only 4 hours in
- Angell TC97
- VS Team 52/Revolve 48
Its nice. Compared to my regular set up (full poly ~38 lbs):
- less spin
- better touch (droppers and touch volleys are better)
- a bit more power which I am seeing on serves primarily
- both are comfy
So, I guess I'll see how long it lasts before making a decision. I usually cut poly out at 10-12 hrs.
- only 4 hours in
- Angell TC97
- VS Team 52/Revolve 48
Its nice. Compared to my regular set up (full poly ~38 lbs):
- less spin
- better touch (droppers and touch volleys are better)
- a bit more power which I am seeing on serves primarily
- both are comfy
So, I guess I'll see how long it lasts before making a decision. I usually cut poly out at 10-12 hrs.
I string the poly crosses at the same tension as I normally would in a poly full bed. To achieve a stringbed tension of my liking, the gut mains end up some 10-20lbs higher depending on the brand as some are much softer. Racquet string pattern and head size factor in also. I pre-stretch both on the machine keeping it in tension for 10-15 secs while weaving the next line.
This formula is working well as I'm getting a very consistent and durable stringbed of 50+ hrs.
This formula is working well as I'm getting a very consistent and durable stringbed of 50+ hrs.
Try 60/40 lbs or so. I find I'm getting better spin than poly. Very surprised.
It'll tame the power while giving you more reliable spin too due to the more consistent ball launch angles.
It'll tame the power while giving you more reliable spin too due to the more consistent ball launch angles.
what are you stringing full poly at?
40 lbs on my 97in Yonex Tour F frame, same one I'm using VS Team/Revolve 17 @ 60/40lbs.
As mentioned above, my formula is to string the poly crosses the same tension as I would in a fullbed. Then find a gut mains tension of your liking.
As mentioned above, my formula is to string the poly crosses the same tension as I would in a fullbed. Then find a gut mains tension of your liking.
Ok, I will definitely try it on the next go around!!!! thanks.
Syfo-Dias
Professional
Is that much tension difference safe? Seems like it would put a lot of stress on the frame.
Gut is pretty soft so I'm not that concerned as it's still pretty arm friendly at 60lbs.
purdyd
Rookie
why gut crosses instead of mains? Since this thread is about gut poly and predominantly about gut mains and poly crosses
Figure 5 — Hybrid Comparison. Gut mains seem to be the secret to achieving the slipperiest combination. Polyester is next and then nylon. However, the cross string seems not to be so specific — both nylon and polyester alternate in the list of slipperiest combinations (see Tables 1 and 2). This is contrary to the case in static friction where we found the gut mains and poly crosses to be universally the slipperiest combination.
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Hey sorry for the late response but yes i use my forehand like that 80% ish. I tried the NG at 57 and it felt great for the first time hitting, but after that it time it just wasnt the same consistency. Now i switched back to a full bed of 4G @ 50 and it feels great just enough power and control so it looks like i will stick with this.
TypeRx
Semi-Pro
Guys, I need some help on selecting a cross from what I currently have "in stock". I am looking to try out gut hybrid in a Wilson Pro Staff RF97A and in a 2015 Babolat Pure Drive+. I strung up the RF97A with Tier One Firewire 18g mains at 50 lbs and OGSM 18g at 53 lbs and felt that it completely lacked pop, even though I was using the same string setup in my PD+ rackets (at lower tension of 47.5/52). So, before writing off the RF97A, I want to see if I can get my desired level of pop and liveliness through different strings. I am looking for comfort, spin, liveliness, and power . I have never used natural gut full bed or in a hybrid configuration before.
Below are the strings I have on hand. Help me pick a cross and perhaps a reasonable tension based on the info I provided above. I was planning on going with Cream but am now wondering if durability will be a big issue based some of the prior comments. FYI - I find myself restringing the Tier One FW/OGSM typically every 6-8 hours due to perceived loss of snapback and notching, and would like more durability than that if possible.
Mains: Klip Legend Natural Gut 15L. I was going to try 57 lbs in the RF97A and PD+ ... is that too low?
Potential crosses: Figuring ~50 lbs tension for the polys -- sound about right? Here are the strings I have at home now...would like to avoid buying anymore if possible.
. I have never used natural gut full bed or in a hybrid configuration before.Below are the strings I have on hand. Help me pick a cross and perhaps a reasonable tension based on the info I provided above. I was planning on going with Cream but am now wondering if durability will be a big issue based some of the prior comments. FYI - I find myself restringing the Tier One FW/OGSM typically every 6-8 hours due to perceived loss of snapback and notching, and would like more durability than that if possible.
Mains: Klip Legend Natural Gut 15L. I was going to try 57 lbs in the RF97A and PD+ ... is that too low?
Potential crosses: Figuring ~50 lbs tension for the polys -- sound about right? Here are the strings I have at home now...would like to avoid buying anymore if possible.
- Ashaway Monogut ZX 17g (probably need to up the tension a few lbs)
- Gamma IO Soft 16g
- Gamma Poly-Z 17g
- Gamma Synthetic Gut 16g
- Gosen OG Sheep Micro 18g
- Head Hawk 17g
- Isospeed Cream 17g
- Klip Legend Natural Gut 15L (I could go full bed I suppose...)
- Solinco Revolution 18g
- Tier One Firewire 18g
- Tier One Strike Force Rip 17g
- Volkl Cyclone 17g
- Volkl Cyclone 18g
- Wilson Ultra Synthetic Gut 15L
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SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
Head Hawk hands downGuys, I need some help on selecting a cross from what I currently have "in stock". I am looking to try out gut hybrid in a Wilson Pro Staff RF97A and in a 2015 Babolat Pure Drive+. I strung up the RF97A with Tier One Firewire 18g mains at 50 lbs and OGSM 18g at 53 lbs and felt that it completely lacked pop, even though I was using the same string setup in my PD+ rackets (at lower tension of 47.5/52). So, before writing off the RF97A, I want to see if I can get my desired level of pop and liveliness through different strings. I am looking for comfort, spin, liveliness, and power
Below are the strings I have on hand. Help me pick a cross and perhaps a reasonable tension based on the info I provided above. I was planning on going with Cream but am now wondering if durability will be a big issue based some of the prior comments. FYI - I find myself restringing the Tier One FW/OGSM typically every 6-8 hours due to perceived loss of snapback and notching, and would like more durability than that if possible.
Mains: Klip Legend Natural Gut 15L. I was going to try 57 lbs in the RF97A and PD+ ... is that too low?
Potential crosses: Figuring ~50 lbs tension for the polys -- sound about right? Here are the strings I have at home now...would like to avoid buying anymore if possible.
Is Head Hawk or Isospeed Cream the logical choices here?
- Ashaway Monogut ZX 17g (probably need to up the tension a few lbs)
- Gamma IO Soft 16g
- Gamma Poly-Z 17g
- Gamma Synthetic Gut 16g
- Gosen OG Sheep Micro 18g
- Head Hawk 17g
- Isospeed Cream 17g
- Klip Legend Natural Gut 15L (I could go full bed I suppose...)
- Solinco Revolution 18g
- Tier One Firewire 18g
- Tier One Strike Force Rip 17g
- Volkl Cyclone 17g
- Volkl Cyclone 18g
- Wilson Ultra Synthetic Gut 15L
I currently have Babolat Tonic 15l Gut mains @55 x Isospeed Cream 17 crosses @35 and it's too powerful for me, so after playing with it for about 8 hours I'm getting ready to try AshKev x AshZX hybrid. Intend to try some other Gut/poly hybrids again later at a little higher tension.
Guys, I need some help on selecting a cross from what I currently have "in stock". I am looking to try out gut hybrid in a Wilson Pro Staff RF97A and in a 2015 Babolat Pure Drive+. I strung up the RF97A with Tier One Firewire 18g mains at 50 lbs and OGSM 18g at 53 lbs and felt that it completely lacked pop, even though I was using the same string setup in my PD+ rackets (at lower tension of 47.5/52). So, before writing off the RF97A, I want to see if I can get my desired level of pop and liveliness through different strings. I am looking for comfort, spin, liveliness, and power
Below are the strings I have on hand. Help me pick a cross and perhaps a reasonable tension based on the info I provided above. I was planning on going with Cream but am now wondering if durability will be a big issue based some of the prior comments. FYI - I find myself restringing the Tier One FW/OGSM typically every 6-8 hours due to perceived loss of snapback and notching, and would like more durability than that if possible.
Mains: Klip Legend Natural Gut 15L. I was going to try 57 lbs in the RF97A and PD+ ... is that too low?
Potential crosses: Figuring ~50 lbs tension for the polys -- sound about right? Here are the strings I have at home now...would like to avoid buying anymore if possible.
Is Head Hawk or Isospeed Cream the logical choices here?
- Ashaway Monogut ZX 17g (probably need to up the tension a few lbs)
- Gamma IO Soft 16g
- Gamma Poly-Z 17g
- Gamma Synthetic Gut 16g
- Gosen OG Sheep Micro 18g
- Head Hawk 17g
- Isospeed Cream 17g
- Klip Legend Natural Gut 15L (I could go full bed I suppose...)
- Solinco Revolution 18g
- Tier One Firewire 18g
- Tier One Strike Force Rip 17g
- Volkl Cyclone 17g
- Volkl Cyclone 18g
- Wilson Ultra Synthetic Gut 15L
MisterP
Hall of Fame
Right now, in an RF97 I have VS Touch in the mains at 56 with Tecnifibre Black Code 4S 17 in the crosses at 52. I think I have about 4-5 hours on them now and everything is holding up great. There is almost no fraying in the VS. With a full bed of Black Code 4S 17 I would break in about 12-14 hours, so this is very impressive.
I think the extra slick coating on Black Code 4S keeps the gut from getting stuck. Plus VS Touch has a slick coating on it as well. Technically, Black Code 4S is a shaped poly (square), but it is such a mild profile and the string is so slick I have no concerns about it cutting into the gut. And after 5 hours, I would have expected to see more sawing.
This is an expensive setup, but so far the feel is better than anything I've ever tried and I don't feel like I've lost any spin at all. If I can keep it in the racquet for more than 3 weeks, this will be my go to setup from now on.
I think the extra slick coating on Black Code 4S keeps the gut from getting stuck. Plus VS Touch has a slick coating on it as well. Technically, Black Code 4S is a shaped poly (square), but it is such a mild profile and the string is so slick I have no concerns about it cutting into the gut. And after 5 hours, I would have expected to see more sawing.
This is an expensive setup, but so far the feel is better than anything I've ever tried and I don't feel like I've lost any spin at all. If I can keep it in the racquet for more than 3 weeks, this will be my go to setup from now on.
TypeRx
Semi-Pro
Thanks for the feedback..of course my "string collecting" addiction has continued though. I placed an order for Wilson Revolve 17g just now, so I think I will try the Klip Legend NG 15L mains at ~57lbs and Wilson Revolve 17g crosses at ~50 lbs in the Wilson RF97A. Based on the feedback in this mega-thread, Revolve appears to be a better choice than Head Hawk. Hope I read things right
I'll string it up in a few days and report back after a reasonable hitting session. I'll hold off on gut hybrid in my Babolat PD+ rackets for now.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
They’re both great, read my and others’ reviews for comparisons. If I recall correctly, Hawk was more consistent and controllable, while Revolve was spin friendlier/livelier and also had a more crisp feel.Thanks for the feedback..of course my "string collecting" addiction has continued though. I placed an order for Wilson Revolve 17g just now, so I think I will try the Klip Legend NG 15L mains at ~57lbs and Wilson Revolve 17g crosses at ~50 lbs in the Wilson RF97A. Based on the feedback in this mega-thread, Revolve appears to be a better choice than Head Hawk. Hope I read things right
I'll string it up in a few days and report back after a reasonable hitting session. I'll hold off on gut hybrid in my Babolat PD+ rackets for now.
TypeRx
Semi-Pro
Just bringing your feedback on this back to the top in case anyone else is interested. Thanks again!
Sardines
Hall of Fame
Guys, I need some help on selecting a cross from what I currently have "in stock". I am looking to try out gut hybrid in a Wilson Pro Staff RF97A and in a 2015 Babolat Pure Drive+. I strung up the RF97A with Tier One Firewire 18g mains at 50 lbs and OGSM 18g at 53 lbs and felt that it completely lacked pop, even though I was using the same string setup in my PD+ rackets (at lower tension of 47.5/52). So, before writing off the RF97A, I want to see if I can get my desired level of pop and liveliness through different strings. I am looking for comfort, spin, liveliness, and power
Below are the strings I have on hand. Help me pick a cross and perhaps a reasonable tension based on the info I provided above. I was planning on going with Cream but am now wondering if durability will be a big issue based some of the prior comments. FYI - I find myself restringing the Tier One FW/OGSM typically every 6-8 hours due to perceived loss of snapback and notching, and would like more durability than that if possible.
Mains: Klip Legend Natural Gut 15L. I was going to try 57 lbs in the RF97A and PD+ ... is that too low?
Potential crosses: Figuring ~50 lbs tension for the polys -- sound about right? Here are the strings I have at home now...would like to avoid buying anymore if possible.
- Ashaway Monogut ZX 17g (probably need to up the tension a few lbs)
- Gamma IO Soft 16g
- Gamma Poly-Z 17g
- Gamma Synthetic Gut 16g
- Gosen OG Sheep Micro 18g
- Head Hawk 17g
- Isospeed Cream 17g
- Klip Legend Natural Gut 15L (I could go full bed I suppose...)
- Solinco Revolution 18g
- Tier One Firewire 18g
- Tier One Strike Force Rip 17g
- Volkl Cyclone 17g
- Volkl Cyclone 18g
- Wilson Ultra Synthetic Gut 15L
Contrapuntal
New User
As a cross with gut mains, does Hawk Touch have similar qualities to straight Hawk?
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
@SpinToWin - thanks for the Max Power suggestion, I tried it in a hybrid, along with Pacific Tough Gut, and really like it so far.
Do you prefer the Max Power 16 (1.30) or the 17 (1.25)? Is there much difference between the two in terms of playability duration? Thanks!
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
Haven’t tried 16 in a hybrid. It is crisper, firmer, and more control oriented IMO. I found it to provide more spin too for some reason... not sure if that was other variables at play though
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
I did the same test, and the difference between 16 or 17 in the crosses was negligible.
