zill
Legend
I will post a video of myself soon when my strokes stabilise. In the next few month and then you guys can comment.
Point of diminishing returns with coaching
- Thread starter zill
- Start date
I will post a video of myself soon when my strokes stabilise. In the next few month and then you guys can comment.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
You will need to prove you are not trolling before I make an attempt. It may not be intentional but you are trolling here unless you can prove otherwise.
It amazes me so many here have taken you seriously and been answering your 'great' questions.
zill
Legend
Yes I can see that. Major reason I think is he prepares his raquet as if he is going to hit the ball on the vertical and on the side of the racquet. He kind of does that on the forehand as well but not as explicit. I'm trying to do that on my forehand side
zill
Legend
All I'm doing is providing background info to my original question. If I said all I want to do is to play competitive recreational tennis than obviously coaching 3 times a week is over kill. I want to get serious with tennis but am funding it all myself and I'm not rich nowhere near rich in fact.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
1 more lesson a week won’t be that useful because you need time to absorb, process, and practice the material from each lesson. There is such a thing as being overwhelmed with too much material.
zill
Legend
So 2 lessons a week max?
atp2015
Hall of Fame
A coach to keep an eye on every ball you hit is great if affordable.
zill
Legend
That's why my thread is about diminishing returns.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
Initially, yes. As your level increases, you will have the ability to absorb more. At that point, you can consider adding another lesson. You’ll know if you are absorbing the content being taught and how quickly you are getting it.
FiReFTW
Legend
He just said his shot technique is similar to Thiem, not the quality of his shots.
Whats so inplausable about that?
His technique could very well be a carbon copy of thiem and yet his shot quality would be much worse because he has like 100 times less time, experience and mileage on those shots, so the timing and everything is much worse.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Let the guy(or gal) have all the fun he wants even if he fails fantastically.
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zill
Legend
Ok so what range (ATP ranking) are 6.0 players?
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
zill
Legend
That was 9 months ago. I'm different level now so to speak. That video does not reflect my play now. For starters I now use a different racquet! Also my backhand was completely off that day. I will post a current video soon.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
That’s right! I forgot it’s the racquet that makes the player! I’m gonna go buy me a RF97A immediately!
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
That’s right! I forgot it’s the racquet that makes the player! I’m gonna go buy me a RF97A immediately!
I have heard from a reliable source that you should buy RFs in multiples of three.
J
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
Cool! It’s like the power up function in a video game!
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
I understand some people get motivation when told they can’t do something. If you are, here’s some motivation.
You will never reach 6.0 level.
You can thank me in 8 years.
zill
Legend
Thats fine. I mean 6.0 level can't even make a living as a tennis player right?
My question is what ATP ranking is 6.0 level???
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Lemme help you out a bit because you don't seem to be grasping this concept.
The 6.0 level doesn't exist, it's a fairy tale. It's a relic of a bygone era. The 6.0 NTRP was meant to describe what is currently 5.0. It is now useless and doesn't exist.
That's why everyone is making fun of you.
What you need to do is familiarize yourself with the UTR system. Find out the UTR of your peers, and set a UTR goal. It's easy to track, gives you a precise number so you will know exactly where you stand in the world and will have measurable progress.
J
BounceHitBounceHit
Legend
I do see the Thiem comparison. It’s in the backhand swing path.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
You might not know how you earn an ATP ranking so I’ll explain how it works. You need to earn 1 point to obtain an ATP ranking. To earn a point you need to win a match in the main draw of an ITF Futures event. What level you are doesn’t matter one bit. You just need to win your first round match in the main draw.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Omg. No. No. No.
I guarantee if you play a ntrp 4.5 tournament you get bagels 1st round.
You are not even a utr 6 right now. 12 year old girls will beat you silly. I can spot the little tells of inexperienced strokes in a second.
9 months does not change much. If the basis is so flawed. You are comparable to a 8 year old boy that just started juniors and playing seriously. That boy has a chance of an ATP ranking if he dilligently practices full time. 6 days a week under coaching for 10 years. You have no chance.
This place is ridiculous.
No, but he seems to be a pretty decent player
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
I never said he wasn’t a decent player. Only that I didn’t think his strokes resembled that of Thiem’s.
Well, multiple people have said that my strokes are as smooth as Federer's.
A person for whom this place is really ridiculous would not be posting more than a 1000 messages here.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
What does this mean?
I mean that someone who finds all the posters here to be very low-level players would not be wasting his time posting here. He would be spending his time playing with advanced opponents.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
I'm not an advanced player.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
omg. threads like this make me want to quit (that and everything sureshs says).
OP, what surface are you playing on? looks like quicksand, cuz your feet look stuck in the mud.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Also what is ridiculous is someone who thinks they can get an ATP ranking starting at 32. And looks like that in a video.
The forum is just a forum. But mean the people here are ridiculous. Case in point.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
The problem also with sureshs is he honestly doesn't even care about getting better at tennis. Why is he the top poster in a tips and technique tennis forum? This is ridiculous as well. How can sureshs say the op of this thread has any semblance of reality?
Hmgraphite1
Hall of Fame
The skies the limit, or wait that no longer true, dreams, we'll all figure out our own limitations
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
First thing I noticed. I realize it's just hitting practice, but there isn't much, if any athletic movement. Better video would be match/point play for reference.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Zill,
It depends on what you expect to get from coaching.
5% of coaching is to identify flaws.
95% of coaching is drilling millions of reps to ingrain a new habit.
The first part will show diminishing returns rather quickly.
If you take 2 lessons, you will still have the same issues on the 3rd lesson (and for weeks after, frankly)
But, you will use the lesson to drill and correct your flaw.
You may not correctly ingrain new strokes without live feedback.
Uncoached players hit 5 days a week for 40 years stay at 3.0 and 3.5
They have perfected their broken strokes beyond the point of no return.
I doubt you are even a 4.0 so focus on the process.
I don't even know what 6.0 means, I like that you have delusional goals
If you like drilling and taking lessons, then go for it.
But, lessons are not the only thing you will need.
You'll need to play a variety of players in matches.
As an adult, to even get to 5.0, you may need to quit your job.
I have never met anyone who has reached 5.0 who started as an adult.
You are correct that you'll need to play 6-7 days a week.
You also need to play more than once a day. That is a given.
College players play 4 hours a day, 6-7 days a week.
Personally, I use a multi-tiered pyramid approach to coaching, to maximize value
Pay an expensive former ATP ranked coach, and have him identify flaws.
You supplement this with cheaper $50 coaches to feed the drills, several more times a week.
You can also hire 5.0 college kids as hitting partners.
I also do the drills for free with various hitting partners at the club.
You don't need a to hire a $150 guy to do the work of a $50 guy.
Then you need to play matches a few times a week, so see if the drills are translating into real life.
This is the only way to see if your new strokes are becoming permanent and automatic.
Once the skills are reliable in match play, you can move onto drilling the next skill.
It depends on what you expect to get from coaching.
5% of coaching is to identify flaws.
95% of coaching is drilling millions of reps to ingrain a new habit.
The first part will show diminishing returns rather quickly.
If you take 2 lessons, you will still have the same issues on the 3rd lesson (and for weeks after, frankly)
But, you will use the lesson to drill and correct your flaw.
You may not correctly ingrain new strokes without live feedback.
Uncoached players hit 5 days a week for 40 years stay at 3.0 and 3.5
They have perfected their broken strokes beyond the point of no return.
I doubt you are even a 4.0 so focus on the process.
I don't even know what 6.0 means, I like that you have delusional goals
If you like drilling and taking lessons, then go for it.
But, lessons are not the only thing you will need.
You'll need to play a variety of players in matches.
As an adult, to even get to 5.0, you may need to quit your job.
I have never met anyone who has reached 5.0 who started as an adult.
You are correct that you'll need to play 6-7 days a week.
You also need to play more than once a day. That is a given.
College players play 4 hours a day, 6-7 days a week.
Personally, I use a multi-tiered pyramid approach to coaching, to maximize value
Pay an expensive former ATP ranked coach, and have him identify flaws.
You supplement this with cheaper $50 coaches to feed the drills, several more times a week.
You can also hire 5.0 college kids as hitting partners.
I also do the drills for free with various hitting partners at the club.
You don't need a to hire a $150 guy to do the work of a $50 guy.
Then you need to play matches a few times a week, so see if the drills are translating into real life.
This is the only way to see if your new strokes are becoming permanent and automatic.
Once the skills are reliable in match play, you can move onto drilling the next skill.
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rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Can't believe ttps posted something not crazy and I agree with.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
norcal
Legend
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Well jolly has a job and he is 5.0. Topspin shot is, Max mag from here is 5.0. Navigator is 5 0. (But old 5.0, pretty sure jolly, topspin shot, maxmag would easily beat navigator)
But oh wait. Navigator is wealthy and retired. And he doesn't have a job and plays basically full time.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
I'm most likely the most grounded person here. Truth hurts.
You have got to be the grumpiest SOB on this site!
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
I like the old mean ttps better.
zill
Legend
what's happening next year?
Only 750 mean and 750 women worldwide will be allowed to have ATP rankings
