And she doesn't play false bromance games with the person she loses to in order to stroke her ego
Roger Federer: Serena Williams may well be best overall tennis player ever
- Thread starter Thriller
- Start date
And she doesn't play false bromance games with the person she loses to in order to stroke her ego
C
Chadillac
Guest
LOL
D
Deleted member 756486
Guest
Easier to be mentally tough when you don’t have to play BO5.
When Federer says he came from a different background than Serena, what he really means is that he was a spoiled brat from an affluent family who had everything handed to him, while Serena faced immense social and economic hurdles in her journey to the top. That alone is enough for Federer to admit that she is the GOAT among players of all genders.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
One could make the argument that if the best female player was so much ahead of rest the WTA field (for example she would have 50 singles slams and the next best player would have 24) than she can be considered better in her field than the best male player (who would have say 20 majors) thus she'd be the greatest.
But it's a bit complicated when the GS formats between the two tours are different -- bo3 and bo5. Maybe Fed would have more majors than Serena had he played in a bo3 format (or not) or then again maybe Serena would have won more in a bo5 format.
Zhilady
Professional
I’m sure there are male players that are lighter than Williams and better Tennis players. What does “pound-for-pound” even mean in this context?
MatsPhilander
Legend
Feminism has gone too far.
EloQuent
Legend
Not that it really matters but let's match up Serena and Federer's records.
Slams: Serena 23, Federer 20.
Olympics: 1, 0
Year end events: 6, 6
Masters/Premier etc: 23, 27
Total titles: 72, 97
Weeks at #1: 319, 309
Consecutive weeks #1: 186, 237
Consistency/ top level: Neither have won the CYGS. Serena has twice won a non-calendar GS. But she has been very inconsistent over her career. She never made all 4 finals in one year, Federer has done so 3 times, and has those stretches of consecutive SFs and QFs etc.
So: if you go by slams alone then 23>20 and that's that. But there's a lot to point to Federer's record as well.
Slams: Serena 23, Federer 20.
Olympics: 1, 0
Year end events: 6, 6
Masters/Premier etc: 23, 27
Total titles: 72, 97
Weeks at #1: 319, 309
Consecutive weeks #1: 186, 237
Consistency/ top level: Neither have won the CYGS. Serena has twice won a non-calendar GS. But she has been very inconsistent over her career. She never made all 4 finals in one year, Federer has done so 3 times, and has those stretches of consecutive SFs and QFs etc.
So: if you go by slams alone then 23>20 and that's that. But there's a lot to point to Federer's record as well.
Zhilady
Professional
Considering separation by tours, Esther Vergeer would be, by far, the greatest Tennis player ever.So basically Federer just blew up this whole absolute argument that many dudes on this site like to make, mostly his fans, and just flat out said that S. Williams could be considered the greatest. So now everyone thinks it must be PR, he doesn't really mean it and go back to their absolute arguments.Federer is simply smarter than you and he can actually separate the two without feeling like he's slighted in the least because at the end of the day he knows he would destroy Serena Williams on a tennis court. He still can separate what she achieved, according to her gender, and place that in perspective and how amazing it is in itself. Federer's fans could learn a lot from him.
Last edited:
EloQuent
Legend
It's also not that clear to be that Serena should be ahead of Graf or Court.
Yeah Federer is a good player, no denying that. Maybe not in Serena's or Nadal's league, but quite all right.
Charlemagne
Hall of Fame
This is fact.
Zhilady
Professional
Agreed. Serena is an amazing player. Not in Karsten Braasch‘s league, regrettably, but still amazing.
EloQuent
Legend
iswydt
Zhilady
Professional
Not unlike how you’re the actual Tennis GOAT considering your... excess.
D
Deleted member 742196
Guest
There's only one galvanizing answer to this sort of quandary and someone ought to trademark it quickly for t-shirts, buttons and upcoming global conflicts.
Anyone But Zverev
Anyone But Zverev
pame
Hall of Fame
Attribution? Or are you as usual claiming Serena said something you want us to believe she said?
See the video of Sharapova crushing Nadal's balls
pame
Hall of Fame
So Sugar Ray Leonard, one of the undisputed great boxers of all time, would have won exactly 0 titles in the heavyweight division
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
So basically Federer just blew up this whole absolute argument that many dudes on this site like to make, mostly his fans, and just flat out said that S. Williams could be considered the greatest. So now everyone thinks it must be PR, he doesn't really mean it and go back to their absolute arguments.
Except the article also says 'best', and no woman is anywhere near the 'best overall player' exactly because she will be bested by hundreds of male pros.
Anyway, leave to the kiss-ups to proclaim Williams Jr as the indisputed goat.
And Usain Bolt would have done pretty badly in long distance running, according to experts
Zhilady
Professional
Which is exactly why Sugar Ray Leonard was never the best boxer in the world.
pame
Hall of Fame
pame
Hall of Fame
Of course you have absolutely no proof that that is why he was not the best boxer in the world... but clearly you have a penchant for the specious argument, so I'll leave you to it
Zhilady
Professional
Are you saying he was the best boxer in the world?
Has anybody ever called Cecilia Braekhus the best boxer of all time? Why do you think that is?
pame
Hall of Fame
I'm saying - and I thought quite clearly and succinctly - that there is no proof whatsoever that his not competing in the heavyweight class, and therefore obviously winning no titles in that division is what makes anyone not consider him the best boxer in the world.
Zhilady
Professional
I’m trying really hard to see the point you’re trying to make, but I can’t find it. Perhaps you just misread my post? I didn’t point to Williams winning 0 titles on the ATP tour. I said she would not win a single title on the ATP tour, even if she played on it.
Either way, suffice it to say that Williams was never even among the 100 best players in the world, which is why she can’t be the best player of all time.
pame
Hall of Fame
So you say! Do forgive me if your opinion carries little weight for me. Correction, no weight at all
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I'm not kissing up to anyone because I never claimed Serena was the greatest. I always left it open for interpretation from both sides of the argument, since both had a point from a relative point of view or absolute point of view. It's the ones with the absolute view, like you, who can't accept the opposing opinion and can't separate the two. Furthermore, it's Federer's words and opinion so if you have a problem go take it up with him.
Zhilady
Professional
I don’t care if my opinion carries no weight for you. I doubt even you are stupid enough to actually think Serena Williams would even be a contender for Grand Slams on the men’s tour, which is all that needs to be said.So you say! Do forgive me if your opinion carries little weight for me. Correction, no weight at all
Thriller
Hall of Fame
Apparently a well thought out argument by Roger, not just a one liner to pacify feminists lol.
“Overall,” Federer clarifies. He ticks off the staggering stats of players like Williams and Steffi Graf, which eclipse those of anyone in men’s tennis, especially when one factors in all of Serena’s doubles titles.
https://deadspin.com/roger-federer-says-serena-williams-is-the-greatest-tenn-1826258866
He knows his stuff.
Remember Serena used to beat Andy Roddick easily before puberty kicked in and put them in completely separate physical categories. She dominated her category like no other. Hands down she is the GOAT for me too.
If she were a man the ATP wouldn't see which way she went. Roger is stronger and faster. He got that for free due to the accident of gender. It isn't at all clear that strength and speed aside, he does anything better than Serena.
“Overall,” Federer clarifies. He ticks off the staggering stats of players like Williams and Steffi Graf, which eclipse those of anyone in men’s tennis, especially when one factors in all of Serena’s doubles titles.
https://deadspin.com/roger-federer-says-serena-williams-is-the-greatest-tenn-1826258866
He knows his stuff.
Remember Serena used to beat Andy Roddick easily before puberty kicked in and put them in completely separate physical categories. She dominated her category like no other. Hands down she is the GOAT for me too.
If she were a man the ATP wouldn't see which way she went. Roger is stronger and faster. He got that for free due to the accident of gender. It isn't at all clear that strength and speed aside, he does anything better than Serena.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
That's not how the word 'best' is generally used in sports with weight classes.
People who follow olympic weightlifting would not call some fat 130kg guy who can clean and jerk 2kg heavier than Halil Mutlu a 'better' weightlifter when Halil is clean-and-jerking three times his own bodyweight and the 130kg is not close to doubling his own BW.
People who follow boxing don't claim that the 50th ranked heavyweight is in any meaningful sense a better boxer than Floyd Mayweather either.
pame
Hall of Fame
Well she's not playing on the Men's Tour.. that's why one tour is called the Men's and the other the Women's... duh! So since no woman can win or be a contender for a GS on the Men's tour, why don't we just scrap the Women's tour... rofl
Zhilady
Professional
Esther Vergeer says hi.
pame
Hall of Fame
Yeh, seems that the lower weight divisions need to check out some "doctors/drugs" and "get their weight up" to compete in the heavyweight division to have any chance at being the best at what they do.
Zhilady
Professional
It doesn’t matter how the word is used. It matters what the word means.
Federer is a better Tennis player than Williams, because he’d perform better than her in any tournament you put them both in.
If we’re dividing by categories like you seem to be proposing we do, Esther Vergeer would be a better Tennis player than Serena Williams. Would you agree with that?
True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
Zhilady
Professional
We have the women’s tour because the men’s tour would murder the women’s tour if they played on the same tour. Still can’t pick the clue, can you?
If we’re talking relative achievements, Esther Vergeer would be the best player of all time. It hasn’t escaped me that all of you ignore her like she doesn’t exist.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
He better slay that pot stir
Zhilady
Professional
There are no weight classes in Tennis. Enough with the false equivalence. Make the analogy between Williams and female boxers, if you have to. Not with middleweight male boxers.
Thriller
Hall of Fame
Get back to me when the slam draw is 128 and the rankings exceed 1000.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Lost count of how many historians rank Sugar Ray Robinson as the goat. Tell me more about his heavyweight exploits.
Thriller
Hall of Fame
Zhilady
Professional
That’s a cheap response, so I’ll give you a cheap retort as well:
Get back to me when women play best-of-5 in Grand Slam tournaments.
FrontHeadlock
Hall of Fame
In fact, I'd argue that Serena almost can't be the GOAT precisely because of Court and Graf.
If you lay your hat on the majors being paramount, Court is #1 (and retired a lot younger too).
If you start taking into consideration other factors, Graf blows Serena away, and the fact that Graf retired after just turning 30 coming off an RG win and a W final really says something. Graf won 22 majors before she turned 30. Serena only 13. Serena won 10 majors after 30 on an abysmal women's tour.
Zhilady
Professional
”Greatest” and “best” are two different words, with two different meanings. Shocking, I know.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
Similar threads
