Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Racquets don't tire me out nearly as much as all that running
. That's probably why i find myself playing doubles a lot more.
The Prince Phantom 93P is a gift to us from TW - My Review/AMA
- Thread starter Power Player
- Start date
Racquets don't tire me out nearly as much as all that running
. That's probably why i find myself playing doubles a lot more.
FourOutOfFive
Rookie
Yeah, afraid you’re right. The string bed is really erratic and I’m feeling some extra vibration in the handle. Wasn’t sure if it was placebo though so wanted some confirmation. Shame since the frame is only a few days old, fortunately I have five others
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah thats a crack for sure. Same thing happened to me with a Dunlop 4D 200 years ago. It’s the worst.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I think topspin has been around since wooden frames but the real extreme grip whippy vertical stroke i see these juniors hitting I don't see much in the 40+ crowd. I'm sure its there but even watching our club's Masters tournament (35+) this last week, the top guys hit more like old Lendl and Chang videos than current Nadal. This is a premier seniors ITF event that gets the best players in the province out in the older age categories. Strokes all look alot more like 80's and 90's tennis. Topspin for sure but not the truly modern game of today's juniors. And the best 50+ player at the event hits an old Babolat Pure Control Tour FWIW. 12 oz stick.
And i don't think someone over 40 playing a 11 oz stick is crazy. Just someone over 40 thinking 12 oz is "heavy" I don't understand. Every stock frame seems light to me based on where frames have come from compared to my youth. Some are just lighter than others. I can play with a light frame just as easily as a heavy frame. I prefer a 12 - 12.5 oz frame just for how they feel.
spinerella
New User
I feel the same as you, Tao69! I am finally grooving with my 93P's (18x20) after two months of hitting, and trying different strings. I played a 4.5 doubles match today and was in Beast mode with this frame. Smashing overheads, great serves with pin point control on volleys, deep forehand and backhand groundstrokes and perfectly executed short angles! And, there is so much control when I swing freely.
Love the 93P! I think I'm going to buy a couple more.
I have mine strung with a full bed of gut at low tensions (@48/45), which I was worried might compromise the control, but hasn’t now that I’m dialed in. Admittedly I’ve adjusted my stroke by increasing my racquet head speed to hit a flatter ball that’s heavy and deep; now I’m hitting my spots and painting the lines. My hitting partner says it’s the best he’s seen me play. I’m finding I’m able to plan my points with greater confidence because I’ll hit my spots, especially when serving; makes a big difference when I throw in a serve and volley. The confidence it gives me to swing away makes it so enjoyable, it rewards attacking tennis and keeps you moving forward. Best thing is it doesn’t bother my arm at all.
Kal-El 34
Hall of Fame
ive had similar results with a hybrid at similar tensions! ive also never felt so confident at the net.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
There is nothing like the P93 at net. I come in to finish off points mainly, but approaching with the P93 makes me feel very confident.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Played 4 sets of doubles this morning with my 93P and I have to say the Inside-In FH DTL from ad court is a truly guilty pleasure with this racquet.
Drop step and let her rip. It was like taking candy from a baby this morning. They knew it was coming, I knew it was coming and it didn't matter.
Sometimes I can't help but smile with this frame.
Drop step and let her rip. It was like taking candy from a baby this morning. They knew it was coming, I knew it was coming and it didn't matter.
Sometimes I can't help but smile with this frame.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
The Vcore 98 could not compete with the P93. Once you get used to the feel of this frame, it is tough to go with something that doesn’t provide the same feedback. The Yonex Vcore 97 310, on the other hand is a worthy adversary. I will be hitting the courts this summer with my 2 P93s and 2 310s. Should be a fun time.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
The VCORE Pro 97 seems to have pretty low SW. Are you adding lead? Not sure I could play with a sub 320 SW these days. Be like a fly swatter.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Nope. It’s not like a fly swatter either. It really surprised me. I initially did add lead. It was only 340 and yet it played much heavier and slower. So I took the lead off and immediately dialed it in. Power and depth is no issue for me and the stick swings great,
Yonex has done this before - they make frames with lower SWs that you think need lead and then they just don’t. My old Vcore xi98 was like 315 in SW and my coach played his stock and was a top 500 ATP player, I know because I have one of his frames. So the specs lie sometimes. Case in point - the Phantom 93. It plays a lot faster through the air than one would suspect.
Anton
Legend
Dang, my second 14x18 P93 came in 5g lighter, half a point more headlight...but swings heavier after same lead placement!
Got 16g natural gut mains at 51lbs with 17g poly at 47. Plays like butter but more bouncy than full poly, sometimes the ball sails on me. Will try to put in string savers to tighten up the top center, but will go higher tension on middle mains on next stringjob
Got 16g natural gut mains at 51lbs with 17g poly at 47. Plays like butter but more bouncy than full poly, sometimes the ball sails on me. Will try to put in string savers to tighten up the top center, but will go higher tension on middle mains on next stringjob
Jannick
Rookie
You will be able to get an idea about the swingweight balance and path. Feel from the stringbed will be very hard to compare. I'd recommend stringing it with any other poly for a good estimate.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah, kind of. Syn gut is underrated as a string because it’s cheap and breaks quickly. But it’s also pretty neutral so you will get a decent idea of the frame.
The good news is for years many of us played with Prince 14x18 mids with Syn gut. The bad news is those years were probably around 1990.
The main thing to keep in mind is the 93s really go up a notch with low tension full poly beds. So if you like the demo and normally play with full poly inthe 40’s you will probably be safe to buy one.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
That racket will come alive with poly at low tensions because of the spin potential. It might launch a bit on you with syn gut. But I played a 93P with OGSM in it and it was pretty comparable for the first couple hours.
When I first got my 93P 18x20 it came with 16g syn gut at 55lbs. It played fine once I got used to the low launch angle. Was using APD2013 and O3 Tour Mid (16x20) before that.
I'd recommend using it for a few sessions and set that as your baseline, and change your next string job from there.
Played with the 93p 14 18 yesterday.
It was strung with syn gut, so keep this with a grain of salt.
I didn't really like it. I felt like I couldn't miss, it allowed me to swing out and impart loads of spin, but the power level is sooooo low. Even compared to my regular PS97S it was ridiculous. I couldn't penetrate the court at all. On the other hand it didn't feel like a 93, more like 95-97.
And I also didn't like the feel, felt very muted and disconnected.
Just not a frame for me, I doubt the string has that big of an impact.
It was strung with syn gut, so keep this with a grain of salt.
I didn't really like it. I felt like I couldn't miss, it allowed me to swing out and impart loads of spin, but the power level is sooooo low. Even compared to my regular PS97S it was ridiculous. I couldn't penetrate the court at all. On the other hand it didn't feel like a 93, more like 95-97.
And I also didn't like the feel, felt very muted and disconnected.
Just not a frame for me, I doubt the string has that big of an impact.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I'd say its probably entirely the strings. Describing the 93P as disconnected is probably opposite of what these racquets are. They have a ton of feel. But if you get the tensions too high they do become muted and low powered.
I think people underestimate the role of strings in the equation.
mhkeuns
Hall of Fame
I also have the 97S, and to me, though it is a great frame and plays really well in the game situations, I feel that the 93P feels more.connected and more penetrating. I have hit with the 93P strung with all multi and hated it. The 93P was meant to be strung with full poly, or at least, strung with poly hybrid.
Well, my PS97S is tail-weighted with 20 g.
It's far from being a powerful frame, but compared to the 93p it's a beast.
I will just stick with the 97S. I highly doubt that the 93p will transform from what it felt to me to the holy grail with a different string. I'm not a good enough player to be that sensitive to equipment.
When you say the power is low, does that mean the balls land short, or do you dump balls into net, or low pace of balls?
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Thats cool. Do you know what your balance and weight is on your 97S? And can you generate high racquet head speed with the P93? It sounds like the Prince may be a little too heavy for you because you are used to a lighter weight and lower SW frame with a similar balance.
I ask because while the P93 is not a Bab cannon, it is definitely not a super low powered racquet either. So many factors that determine a racquets power though - for me the #1 thing is contact point and tip speed. If I constantly make contact out in front in the sweet spot while generating good racquet head speed, I find that I can generate good power with a lot of control frames.
So I am wondering if you were a little late on contact with the Phantom and that’s what got you. Either way, it doesn’t matter that much because if you are late with the frame in stock form, it’s probably not going to be a great fit.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Yeah hitting late with any of the Phantoms is an issue, power wise. Of course it isn't a great idea with any frame but definitely control frames feel the power loss more acutely.
But not everyone feels as connected to this racquet as some of us. It isn't a holy grail racquet but its balance and feel do make it so much fun to play with. As I've said numerous times in this thread, the 93P feels like an extension of my arm. I just always know where the hoop is and that makes it easy to hit out with. If you don't get that kind of connection, it's going to be a more challenging frame.
It's more string tension than a different string...the 93P is string sensitive in that it likes being strung low so the ball gets cupped more. It's also awesome w/ gut hybrids because gut gives it a power boost. FWIW, when I tried the demo, I thought it was mehh too...much smaller sweet spot than a PP100P...underpowered...took a chance and don't really have the urge to try racquets to look for something that fits better any more (though I'm still slightly curious about the Clash Tour w/ their giant hype train...lol).
Folks who play the "modern game" (aka, whipping head light racquets to get Nadal level topspin) probably won't like the 93P....
Yeah, with so many variables there’s never going to be a unified view of any particular racquet, just different groups who appreciate different racquets. It’s part of what makes the sport interesting, looking across the net and analyzing your opponents game, including their weapon of choice.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
All the 3.5s playing usta league around my area seem to be walking around with Pure Drives and Pure Aeros. Not sure what that tells me.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Everybody has a different feeling and experience when it comes to equipment. So, if the 93P is not for you... then it's good you found out. You tried and found that what you currently play with suits you better... that's great (at least for you) as 1) you don't need to buy another racquet; 2) you confirmed your previous choice was a good one for you and you can remove that doubt and keep using it.
Was there anything you did like about the 93P?
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Well, you might deduce that if they are fast enough to get to the ball, it may come back more often as the racquet is more powerful and therefore the ball will make it back even if they didn't get a clean hit; maybe also that the balls will be coming back at a higher trajectory than an 18x20 racquet in the same hands; and also the ball may have more pace on it as the racquets are more powerful. Finally, they may grunt more when hitting the ball, pull at their underwear, or strut around the court with attitude (looking Fabioulous) muttering to themselves in what sounds like Italian
(Obviously kidding about all the bits in the last sentence)... however, if you're playing on clay... You might be in big trouble...What he said...Well, you might deduce that if they are fast enough to get to the ball, it may come back more often as the racquet is more powerful and therefore the ball will make it back even if they didn't get a clean hit; maybe also that the balls will be coming back at a higher trajectory than an 18x20 racquet in the same hands; and also the ball may have more pace on it as the racquets are more powerful. Finally, they may grunt more when hitting the ball, pull at their underwear, or strut around the court with attitude (looking Fabioulous) muttering to themselves in what sounds like Italian
And depending on their grip may not be entirely comfortable coming into the net.
Addxyz
Hall of Fame
I will just quote your comment and answer everyone
I liked the spin potential and how fast it swung through the air.
And regarding the power level, I lacked pace. I managed to hit to the baseline consistently, but it lacked pace and court penetration. Conditions were tough, only 10 degrees, clay and quite wet, so the balls were really heavy. But once I switched to my PS97S after an hour I didn't struggle with pace, so it was the racket, not the conditions.
Regarding a comment about the weight. My racket of choice swings heavier and feels heavier, so the weight of the 93p wasn't the problem. I also used to play the PS90 and the RF97, I generally like heavier rackets.
And I'm also not the typical modern player. I play a strong eastern forehand and a weak eastern one-handed backhand. Use slice and dropshots, so more like an all-court player. No idea what my USTA rating is, but based on clips and texts I've seen and read solid 4.0.
But I agree, was good to see that the 93p isn't for me, saves money and tames my racketaholism
Thanks to everyone though!
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
It could have been several things other than the racquet. Could have been the strings, the string tensions and/or your confidence.
I think it took me about 6 weeks before I could totally rip it with the 93P. Now I hate hitting a FH with any other racquet. I think if i demo'd any racquet right now it would pale compared to 93P when it comes to every shot but the 2HBH.
That being said if you hit the PS97S with pace, control and feel, what the heck are you doing demo-ing the 93P?
I switched to the Phantom line for necessity of needing a more comfortable setup for my arm. I gravitated to the 93P for its precision and feel. If you have a good racquet that's comfortable, there likely isn't much reason to try new things. Technology doesn't advance that quickly especially in racquets, where many people play awesome tennis using 1990's tech.
Good thing you saved some money. Enjoy the Pro Staff, its a great racquet too.
I read so much about the 93p and was intrigued to try it. I used to be a racketalohic before the 97S cured me and I'm glad the 93p didn't get me started again.
And thank you!
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Nice, I have noticed that I tend to look at one or two new models now every year or so, which I feel is fairly healthy. Doesn’t even work every time for me, but I have done interesting stuff like go from a Pure Aero plus to a P93, which makes zero sense, but it worked out on the court alright. That’s really all that matters. Plus you need to feel confident with the racquet so no matter how highly loved it is, if you do not, than forget about it. I have a PT280 sitting at home that is super awesome but I’m not as confident with it.
Framewinner
New User
Can anyone recommend a tension for gut / poly setup on the 14x18 93p coming from full 17g poly at 50lbs
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tennisboy2121
Rookie
Is there a difference in comfort with the 14x18 and 18x20.
I have my gut/poly @48/45lbs, it’s way too low. I played a full session with it the other night and I had to reduce my racquet head speed to keep it in as the spin didn’t compensate enough for the launch angle. If I did it again I’d probably go 54/50lbs at a minimum.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Strings and tensions being equal, then the 14x18. But I’d put 16g string at higher tensions in the 14x18 so it would likely even out.
Frames feel about the same to me as far as flex and comfort are concerned.
I can’t do a true direct comparison, as my 14x18 is gut/poly and the 18x20 is full gut, but for what it’s worth I do think the 18x20 is more comfortable; but it’s just as likely the difference is the string bed or all in my head it’s that close.
I’m not sure you’d choose between the two based on comfort, the way they play is night and day and I’d suggest how that suits your game will be the deciding factor.
Anton
Legend
Natural gut is going to move around more, have to string it higher.
I had my 16g Klip Legend in the mains at 51lbs and it turned loose. I've added string savers on 8 center mains (like Fed has on his K90) and that tightened it up, but for my next string job I'll go to 53, maybe even 54 on center mains (dropping off towards the edges)
As a side note - I'm getting AMAZING longevity and pretty good comfort from my realxed 20+ playing hours RS Lyon 17 stringjob.
jonestim
Hall of Fame
It depends. I usually play 17g strings. If I am using anything in the 16-17 range I don't mess with it.
I have occasionally used Cyclone 19 which is super light and I added lead to get it somewhat similar to my other racquets. On the other end, I used Ultra Cable which is super heavy and had to remove lead from a racquet.
Thanks. I find I notice the gut/poly heaviness more than full bed thin poly. I guess gut is the most dense string of them all.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah thats why I love the RS. It’s great in a full bed and it works perfectly as a cross too since it is smooth and durable.
I am going to try a full bed of Max Power Rough 1.25 in the phantom next, since I have a reel. Thats the only other poly I have used that I really like, outside of Lyon.
