Damaging loss for Djokovic

P

Pantera

Banned
While Medvedev played hit and hope tennis and will never do that sort of thing again (130mph 2nd serves is desperation) for Djokovic being 2 behind Nadal at Masters 1000 level is going to grate with him, as is the fact Nadal bagelled Medvedev a week ago.

Psychology plays a huge part in sport and Nadal is 2-1 v Djokovic in new york and add to that recent events should the almost inevitable Nadal Djokovic final happen in 3 weeks time (only injury stops it as no player is remotely close to either on hard courts) then Nadal has the edge mentally, also albeit on clay not hard but the last meeting was a bagel and breadstick for Nadal.

Missed opportunitu for Djokovic as had he won cincinatti he would have been clear favourite for USO. Now he probably will be wary of Nadal and historically when Djokovic has doubts he tends to lose to nadal.
 
Nadal_Django

Nadal_Django

Legend
Rafa should be a massive massive favourite for the USO right now. Then is between Federer, Medvedev, Djokovic and Thiem. ;)
 
prairiegirl

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
He lost. You can analyze it all you want. Medvedev was better when it mattered. Djokovic is getting to the point where he will no longer be able to dominate. Medvedev displayed a classic pattern of how to beat him.
 
Subway Tennis

Subway Tennis

Legend
Pantera said:
While Medvedev played hit and hope tennis and will never do that sort of thing again (130mph 2nd serves is desperation) for Djokovic being 2 behind Nadal at Masters 1000 level is going to grate with him, as is the fact Nadal bagelled Medvedev a week ago.

Psychology plays a huge part in sport and Nadal is 2-1 v Djokovic in new york and add to that recent events should the almost inevitable Nadal Djokovic final happen in 3 weeks time (only injury stops it as no player is remotely close to either on hard courts) then Nadal has the edge mentally, also albeit on clay not hard but the last meeting was a bagel and breadstick for Nadal.

Missed opportunitu for Djokovic as had he won cincinatti he would have been clear favourite for USO. Now he probably will be wary of Nadal and historically when Djokovic has doubts he tends to lose to nadal.
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Nadal_Django said:
Rafa should be a massive massive favourite for the USO right now. Then is between Federer, Medvedev, Djokovic and Thiem. ;)
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I agree with most of this, the only thing I would add as a counterpoint is that Djokovic does not rely on form going into majors the same way Rafa does. I also think it's hard to predict how the direct Rafa vs Djokovic matchup will go based on intel about what their level is like solely against other players rather than each other.
 
True Fanerer

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
There are chinks in the armor and the Djokovic of AO has been missing ever since. He is squeaking out wins and losing to grinders. He's still the favorite, but he's been exposed time and time again. Time to make some changes because the field is catching on. Everyone is sick of him winning. Not to mention the poor record he has at UO somehow finding a way to lose in finals more often than not.
 
Zebrev

Zebrev

Hall of Fame
Even Djokovic 2015 would've lost to that. How are you supposed to return 120 mph second serve?

Medvedev was on fire, sometimes you just have to say too good. Highly doubt he can reproduce that at US Open, or he would be a mjaor contender.

The US Open is currently between Nadal and Djokovic. Federer has a outside chance, if one gets knocked out.
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
Zebrev said:
Even Djokovic 2015 would've lost to that. How are you supposed to return 120 mph second serve?

Medvedev was on fire, sometimes you just have to say too good. Highly doubt he can reproduce that at US Open, or he would be a mjaor contender.

The US Open is currently between Nadal and Djokovic. Federer has a outside chance, if one gets knocked out.
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Using a tennis racquet
 
MeatTornado

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
Pantera said:
Djokovic being 2 behind Nadal at Masters 1000 level is going to grate with him
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I sincerely doubt either one of them is counting Masters at this point, or else Novak wouldn't have skipped Montreal and Rafa wouldn't have skipped Cincy.
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Watch him cruise to the USO.. culminating in a 3 set demolition of Bautista Agut in the final.

Nadal will probably get injured and Fed will in the QF to Thiem or Coric or some other ball basher.
 
r2473

r2473

G.O.A.T.
HetTheGreaterer said:
Absolutely...
Big3 are different animals in slams altogether
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Exactly. These days, none of them seem to give all out effort in anything outside of the slams.

If Cincy was a slam match, Djokovic would have gone into “lock down” mode yesterday and won. But he just couldn’t be bothered.

Unless he’s injured, nobody is beating Djokovic at the US Open
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
Nadal_Django said:
Rafa should be a massive massive favourite for the USO right now.
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Let's hope last year's retirement isn't tradition! :(

nadal1.jpg
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
KINGROGER said:
Watch him cruise to the USO.. culminating in a 3 set demolition of Bautista Agut in the final.

Nadal will probably get injured and Fed will in the QF to Thiem or Coric or some other ball basher.
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Pretty much this. Although I doubt RBA will be in the final (not sure if you were being sarcastic here).
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
It's possibly a damaging loss in terms of who ends up as the greatest Masters champion 'cos even if Nadal ultimately finishes ahead, most people would consider Djokovic's resume superior had he completed a Double Golden Masters(hence so many Nadal fans being delighted with last night' s result) but in terms of being damaging for the upcoming US Open? Hmm, not really.
 
robthai

robthai

Hall of Fame
This was no fluke win for Medvedev. He beat him on clay earlier this year. Clay is a surface where hit and hope tennis never works.
 
G

Goret

Rookie
Djokovic2011 said:
It's possibly a damaging loss in terms of who ends up as the greatest Masters champion 'cos even if Nadal ultimately finishes ahead, most people would consider Djokovic's resume superior had he completed a Double Golden Masters(hence so many Nadal fans being delighted with last night' s result) but in terms of being damaging for the upcoming US Open? Hmm, not really.
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Winning all M1000s at least once is still a higher achievement than having at least a missing one. Having them at least twice won't make such a huge difference there if your main rivals still have an incomplete set.

To be honest, M1000s matter way less than GS titles. Djokovic didn't exactly look devastated after his loss... it not comparable to his attitude after losing RG 2015 (or Rio 2016 1st round).
 
TheAssassin

TheAssassin

Legend
These events matter nothing for these guys except getting into some form for the Majors. The stakes at the Masters can be higher if they meet each other, but the Big 3 haven't done that often recently.

Underestimate Djokovic at your own peril, people. It was stupid to do that when he was awful, it's even worse now when he is the best in the world.
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
TheAssassin said:
These events matter nothing for these guys except getting into some form for the Majors. The stakes at the Masters can be higher if they meet each other, but the Big 3 haven't done that often recently.

Underestimate Djokovic at your own peril, people. It was stupid to do that when he was awful, it's even worse now when he is the best in the world.
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What if Federer finishes with a better record on the season than Djokovic?

At age 38. :oops:
 
True Fanerer

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
TheAssassin said:
These events matter nothing for these guys except getting into some form for the Majors. The stakes at the Masters can be higher if they meet each other, but the Big 3 haven't done that often recently.

Underestimate Djokovic at your own peril, people. It was stupid to do that when he was awful, it's even worse now when he is the best in the world.
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All I see is people saying he's the favorite.
 
True Fanerer

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
TheAssassin said:
If he has no Slams or higher YE ranking to show for it, what's the point really...

Sure but OP is not going to be the only one overreacting either. This being a damaging loss is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
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I don't think the loss itself is damaging. It shows that he's beatable and has been for quite a while. He may show up at UO and dominate again like at AO, but honestly that level has been nowhere to be found and I'm not sure that it ever will again. Still the man to beat without a doubt though.
 
Born_to_slice

Born_to_slice

Legend
prairiegirl said:
He lost. You can analyze it all you want. Medvedev was better when it mattered. Djokovic is getting to the point where he will no longer be able to dominate. Medvedev displayed a classic pattern of how to beat him.
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Bomb 2nd serve aces and win 100% break points is a classic pattern? On which planet?
 
AM75

AM75

Hall of Fame
I thought there's no such a thing as a damaging loss for top players. They learn their lesson and move on.
 
Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
MeatTornado said:
I sincerely doubt either one of them is counting Masters at this point, or else Novak wouldn't have skipped Montreal and Rafa wouldn't have skipped Cincy.
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This. It is unfortunate that the GOAT debate has taken over tennis, however, it is clear that it has. No one cares how many masters you have anymore. I think once they all had about 26/27/28, it stopped being relevant. Djoker has yet to win a hardcourt masters this year (has even won a masters this year? Cant even remember). yet he most likely will end the season with both HC slams.
 
MeatTornado

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
Lleytonstation said:
This. It is unfortunate that the GOAT debate has taken over tennis, however, it is clear that it has. No one cares how many masters you have anymore. I think once they all had about 26/27/28, it stopped being relevant. Djoker has yet to win a hardcourt masters this year (has even won a masters this year? Cant even remember). yet he most likely will end the season with both HC slams.
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He won Madrid. Tsitsipas took out Rafa in the SF and then lost to Novak in straights during the final.

And Thiem was up a break in both sets of his SF with Novak but somehow lost in straight sets.

Overall it's been a weak Masters year by his standards. IW & Miami were awful, then MC he lost to Medvedev who had like 1 career clay win to that point. Madrid was solid but Rome he should've lost to both Schwartzmann and del Potro.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe good for Novak this loss as it has cooled down the pressure on him for USO some, can be good for him, even though it doesn’t seem so here on TTw lol
 
Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
Breakpointerer said:
Yup, won Madrid
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Yep, who remembers all those clay tourneys lined up? Now that I think of it, I watched the final, but I cant even remember it. When you have the top players constantly skipping these throughout the year, their wins get watered down. Heck, Goffin (Med will blow it today) and Fognini will probably finish the year with a masters victory.
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
MeatTornado said:
He won Madrid. Tsitsipas took out Rafa in the SF and then lost to Novak in straights during the final.

And Thiem was up a break in both sets of his SF with Novak but somehow lost in straight sets.

Overall it's been a weak Masters year by his standards. IW & Miami were awful, then MC he lost to Medvedev who had like 1 career clay win to that point. Madrid was solid but Rome he should've lost to both Schwartzmann and del Potro.
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The way I see it, he still cares about the matches he plays, but he his entire training scheduling is exclusively about winning Slams. Maybe that changes in the fall when there's no more Slams to be won for the year and YE#1 and WTF are on the line. I think this pretty much explains why IW and Miami were so bad.
 
Breakpointerer

Breakpointerer

Legend
Lleytonstation said:
Yep, who remembers all those clay tourneys lined up? Now that I think of it, I watched the final, but I cant even remember it. When you have the top players constantly skipping these throughout the year, their wins get watered down. Heck, Goffin (Med will blow it today) and Fognini will probably finish the year with a masters victory.
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Yeah, Master 1000 wins have seriously decreased in value
 
Enceladus

Enceladus

Legend
Pantera said:
Psychology plays a huge part in sport and Nadal is 2-1 v Djokovic in new york and add to that recent events should the almost inevitable Nadal Djokovic final happen in 3 weeks time (only injury stops it as no player is remotely close to either on hard courts) then Nadal has the edge mentally, also albeit on clay not hard but the last meeting was a bagel and breadstick for Nadal.
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Nadal lost the last 7 matches with Djoker on a hard surface, on the sets 0-15 after the USO 2013 final. The mental advantage is on the side of Djoker. The final in Rome, despite Rafa's victory, showed that Bull has a mental cracks due to Djoker.
 
P

Pantera

Banned
KINGROGER said:
Watch him cruise to the USO.. culminating in a 3 set demolition of Bautista Agut in the final.

Nadal will probably get injured and Fed will in the QF to Thiem or Coric or some other ball basher.
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Nadal looks to have timed his run alot better than last year. Problem last year for nadal (and i said at the time) was the two 5 setters v delpo and Djokovic was always going to come back to bite. He has tough toronto matches with Cilic and Khachanov and was already goosed at USO...he looked shattered v Ferrer in 1st round.

This year he has not had a really hard match all year bar the first 90 mins v Thiem in FO final.

I really think he is a big favourite for USO. Im not saying he is better than Djokovic or vice versa. But i sense Djokovic may well run out of steam in New York..that W final will play a part. Cannot underestimate how much emotionally that took out of both .
 
P

Pantera

Banned
Enceladus said:
Nadal lost the last 7 matches with Djoker on a hard surface, on the sets 0-15 after the USO 2013 final. The mental advantage is on the side of Djoker. The final in Rome, despite Rafa's victory, showed that Bull has a mental cracks due to Djoker.
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No...Nadal is unlike any player in that he never bothers about the past. If he did then no way would he bagel and breadstick djokovic in rome.
 
Enceladus

Enceladus

Legend
Pantera said:
No...Nadal is unlike any player in that he never bothers about the past. If he did then no way would he bagel and breadstick djokovic in rome.
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Nadal was visibly nervous during the AO 2019 final. Nadal's mental cracks from past matches against Djoker also contributed to the loss of the second set in the Rome final. Nadal has Djoker in his head, whether you like it or not. The bitter defeats with the ATG rival cannot be forgotten.
 
DJTaurus

DJTaurus

Hall of Fame
The same old story when NOLE looses before a GS. He just doesn’t care..... he showed no anger, frustration and yelling to himself when he is on Ultronian mode. Even when loosing points his nerves were under control.
 
Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
DJTaurus said:
The same old story when NOLE looses before a GS. He just doesn’t care..... he showed no anger, frustration and yelling to himself when he is on Ultronian mode. Even when loosing points his nerves were under control.
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He showed anger and frustration... at the crowd.
 
OldschoolKIaus

OldschoolKIaus

Hall of Fame
"I lost on purpose in nobody-cares-M1000-SF so people see I am human. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese love me as much as you all love Fedal pleeeeeeeease uuuuuuargh." *racquet smash*
 
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