ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Coach insult chain ... insult it forward
Shot Tolerance: The Elephant in Tennis Tips/Instruction
- Thread starter J011yroger
- Start date
Coach insult chain ... insult it forward
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
-or the life insurance on to the wife....
Bender
G.O.A.T.
"You play like Wawrinka on grass you maggot! Run, Forrest, run! Move your dadbod! Bend your arthritic knees!"
"Do you like sucking bagels, private johnson?"
"sir no sir!"
"bullsheet, I bet you can suck a tennis ball through garden hose!"
tennishabit
Legend
lololololol i tried dat 2 myself n it did work!!! after miss the target, the ball tube, 00s times i could hit more accurate and directly hit the tube when i yelled out loud "sucker! kill it" or "hit it sucker!" so i tried dis 'yelling' strategy from start then amazingly wouln't take long b4 the direct 'head shot', so 'abuse' urself bit n it's quite positive. n it might work as well if u 'abuse' bit others....lololololol
Hehe, OP so true!
I feel that a lot on my backhand. I've got a pretty good slice, and a lot of that is that I can handle a lot of pace and spin and still hit a relatively good biting slice back. I've been working on my topspin backhand, and it's nowadays halfway decent for one or two shots, at the right time... but as soon as someone starts giving me good pace on that side, I've just got nothin'. Breaks down.
Is there any good way of working on "handling pace" besides just going out there and playing better players that hit harder/heavier?
I feel that a lot on my backhand. I've got a pretty good slice, and a lot of that is that I can handle a lot of pace and spin and still hit a relatively good biting slice back. I've been working on my topspin backhand, and it's nowadays halfway decent for one or two shots, at the right time... but as soon as someone starts giving me good pace on that side, I've just got nothin'. Breaks down.
Is there any good way of working on "handling pace" besides just going out there and playing better players that hit harder/heavier?
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
My experience/observation ... 95% of EDIT: REC drive 1hbhs break down playing up one level. Most can bang FHs and 2hbhs up a level. 1hbh slice ... depends, but mine holds up much better than 1hbh drive. Things have to be pretty perfect for rec 1hbh drives imo.
@J011yroger 's OP was great ... not sure I ever read it.
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Hmgraphite1
Hall of Fame
The wall hits it back with pace, good way to groove it. FH BH FH BH
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
The wall always wants to talk about politics.
Hmgraphite1
Hall of Fame
That's why it's fun to pummel it. It appears to be invincible but is eroding from within.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yes - you need to be in shape and have the footwork down so you are set up on every shot you can be set up for. You need to know how to generate your own pace and control that with spin. The better you get, the heavier your 70% ball is, but the mistake is trying to rush that part and overhit instead of being real with yourself.
I played a few lower level guys this week with low shot tolerance. It’s too easy sometimes because my pattern was 70% power, heavy spin, nice and deep on inside out FH’s over and over. A relaxed stroke with safe margins but still has pace and weight on it. The main goal to quickly dispatch a lower level guy is to get him to try and trade pace with you when he really shouldn’t be. After 2-3 balls his timing is way off and it’s an error fest. Really low effort and pretty safe margins required as long as you move your feet, prep and hit.
I then played a few teaching pros and the game was different. Inside out was not generating errors because they can adjust to spin, so the game then becomes more about fitness and more cerebral.
A few things to add - besides fitness you need to have experience. Experience helps you by quickly calming nerves so you move your feet and execute the fundamental things you MUST do in order to cleanly hit the ball. To me shot tolerance is about experience (mental), focus and fitness.
The focus part is very key as well. This is where you are able to play within yourself and keep your head still and eyes on the ball through contact. A lot of guys have terrible consistency and shot tolerance because at some point they lose focus and start yanking their head off the ball. That was a big issue for me in the past. My only thought when I play now is “eye on the ball”. The other stuff in terms of direction of shot and what shot to hit is basically autopilot, due to experience.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
The only crisis I see at the wall is me getting bored to death. So, from then on I've been going with the people.
Definitely agree with this! Experience really helps you know where your general capacities are; I love what you said about "the mistake is trying to rush that part and overhit instead of being real with yourself." It also helps you not get anxious and take your eyes off the ball, since the more experience you have the less "oh %#@$" you feel when someone hits a fast/heavy/angled/whatever ball, and the less likely you are to try to watch where your shot is going/recover back to position before you even finish your stroke because you're worried about what their next ball is going to do to you.
I've started playing Open tournaments recently (I'm a 4.5/5.0) and the biggest thing I've noticed is that my average rally ball isn't generally as effective as I would like against my (MUCH more experienced) opponents. This is partly due to the fact that their average rally balls are heavier/deeper/better placed than your average 4.5/5.0 player, which then makes me feel like they're attacking even though they're just rallying (lower shot tolerance). It's also partly due to the fact that better players will take advantage of my rally balls that aren't deep enough, heavy enough, fast enough, or well-placed enough; my rally ball does not appear as threatening to them as it might appear to a 4.5 player (higher shot tolerance).
I had always thought that I would evolve as a player just by putting in the long hard hours "working on my game" and improving technique/fitness , and while those things have absolutely helped me be surprisingly competitive with some very good players, the experience of being in those situations and slowly (sometimes painfully) learning what works and what doesn't is really, really valuable.
tennishabit
Legend
2 me my wall's the best for my daily dosage >1200 hits as i've got the best wall of the whole world i think..........lololololol manohman
...........~15 degree inclination/tilt make the ball deflection perfectly felt like on a real court, n i can accurately control the angle/range of almost every shot as it's landing right at front of me. though i did spend some time theoretically/practically back/forth btw the wall n court to re-calibrate the 'simulator'...............lololololol now i feel so funny dat i even tried to keep it secret n worried i'd have no space for myself if every1'd known such a perfect 'tennis wall' out dere, but........lololololol dat's absolutely hilarious saw a lot of ppl tried 2 do wat i was doing n enjoy wat i enjoyed sososo....n(n+1) much, manohman all got burnt aft some tries n dropped like flies, gr8 feeling manohman..........
seems not bored 2 death, man..........wrist/elbow pain knocking the door, sadly 2 say
.................once feel dis, save the limited 'ammo n life' on ur court play might be the best option...................I had a random hit with a former pro who borrowed one of my rackets and we were using very soft practice balls. I was winded but amazed that I was able to maintain some decent rallies.
We hit again last Tuesday, this time with a new can of proper balls and his own racket/strings. My 1hbh broke down immediately from the extra pace and spin.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Join the club ... but just took 28 year old ex-college player for me. Congrats for even being on court with ex-pro.
Oh Wise One, perhaps you missed the point of my post: Technique is important. Good modern technique is flexible, in that each element can be varied to produce a variety of responses to a give type of ball. Footwork has to be freed from basic stroke technique, which is why modern technique uses upper body/shoulders/arms and ISR/ESR so articulately, allowing decent BH and FH drives and swinging volleys even on the run. BUT...that has nothing to do with court positioning and tactical sense, which should be the heavy focus after basic stroke technique is sound.
The disgust you felt watching Sonego's play was not the result of his essential stroke technique, but rather of his failure to graduate from tennis Elementary School and proceed to Middle School, tactics and strategy. High School, I suppose, is mental toughness and hatred of losing, grit.
Still, I too would have laughed at the same Sonego points, laughing for Lajovic's good fortune, rather than Sonego's failings.
sredna42
Hall of Fame
I missed this post. This is so true
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I have no idea why @J011yroger 's old post reminded me of the following but pretty funny:
Country music isn't my thing ... but I like Garth Brooks (fellow Oklahoma State grad). He said something like:
"Here I am a fat boy jumping around sweating on a stage like a crazy person ... and there is George Straight just standing there singing".
Dragy
Legend
If only you could sing your way through a tennis match...I have no idea why @J011yroger 's old post reminded me of the following but pretty funny:
Country music isn't my thing ... but I like Garth Brooks (fellow Oklahoma State grad). He said something like:
"Here I am a fat boy jumping around sweating on a stage like a crazy person ... and there is George Straight just standing there singing".
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Trust me on this ... you do not want me singing ... ever. One of my summer jobs when I was in college was at a restaurant where the waiters would sing a whack birthday song. Even masked by multiple voices ... I stood out.
Dragy
Legend
You respect hindrance rule, don’t you?Trust me on this ... you do not want me singing ... ever. One of my summer jobs when I was in college was at a restaurant where the waiters would sing a whack birthday song. Even masked by multiple voices ... I stood out.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
My opponent could not play through my singing ... but neither could I.
It would be fun to hook someone with a Steven Tyler OUT!!!
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Ah j011y. You were the weak era poasting goat!!!
Dragy
Legend
This is brilliant!
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
This is why O'Fallacy's conclusions are wrong.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
The truth is strong
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Well someone else came up with that years ago. And yep it is
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
BounceHitBounceHit
Legend
It is amazing how many REALLY good “technical “ players do not win much. Hitting well/good technique is arguably less than half the equation. The recent “Battle at the Farm” video, which showcases @MaxTennis playing @travlerajm is an excellent case in point. If one only focused on the technique of the two players the result could not be predicted. However T’s movement, shot selection, and “court sense” keep him very, very competitive with a strong player. Travlerajm is MUCH better than he “looks” (and honestly I think he looks pretty darn good!) [emoji109]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
The first time I experienced this was hitting with a high level college player. He was home for the summer and we were at a tournament and I offered to warm up with him. I felt like I was working pretty hard to stay in the rallies and he looked like he could have eaten a sandwich and drank some coffee while he was hitting.
Afterwards I asked him about his practice routine and it made sense why there was such a difference and why rec players will never reach such a level. He hit for hours a day with directed warmups of 50 plus shots at a time doing cross courts, down the lines, and other shot sequences with other players at his school who would also presumably be competitive with him.
I can only think of one or two people I've ever had a 50 shot rally with and there is no one around where I am at the level he was at to hit with. I'd have to go to one of the colleges or find some top ranked junior at an academy or something to have that level of rally.
So yeah, players that have had that level of training are going to be way above where us rec players, even upper level rec players will ever get. There's just no way to make up for the amount of high level practice hours those guys get.
In fact, the only shot you have a chance to build to that level without high level practice partners is the serve. That's the one shot I had that this college player ever gave me any real kudos on. He liked my backhand too, but it was very hard for me to get ahead enough in the rally to really sting him with it.
FiReFTW
Legend
They also have one more thing.
Talent.
People are often in awe of how easy these high level juniors/college players make it look and how good they play.
But they fail to realize that these are the top guys, they dont see those 80-90% of other kids that also train insanely alot for 10 or 15 years yet never reach close to that level because its obvious from the start that they are so uncoordinated and unathletic.
That might be a bit strongly worded. I've not met anyone that trained insanely for 10 years and didn't get close. Of course I don't know a ton of super high level players either, but I would guess a lot of players that just won't make it close to those levels get weeded out well before 10 years of insane training take place. I would bet the number of players that can train like that starting from 8 to 10 is quite small.
Dragy
Legend
One of the biggest part of talent of successful professional sportsmen is being able to do all the huge training volumes without getting exhausted, injured or bored. Staying healthy, staying motivated, coming to practice area day after day and working through all the hours. This doesn’t guarantee one a slot in top 10, or Olympic medal, but reliably gets to the very top.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Totally untrue.
Almost everyone who trains from a young age and actually tries can play DI college or be 5.0 USTA level.
Show me someone who trained 2 hours a day 6 days a week with good coaching from 8-18 and isn't very good.
J
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
the solution is to play doubles
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
FiReFTW
Legend
I never said someone who started tennis as a kid and plays for 10-15 years isn't very good. I don't know what levels you guys were specifically talking about, I thought you were talking about like UTR13-14 players who play like they are half asleep against a UTR10 or 11.
In any case anyone who started as a kid and plays for 10-15 hours and commits to it will be a high level player, thats true, but my point is theres a huge skill gap from player to player, there are alot of players exactly like that here that are UTR11, which is a high level no doubt.. but then you look at the other side of the spectrum, where they are players who also went through that and are on the top of the ATP and UTR16.
So thats what I meant, some players are just much more talented in many areas, and its not that those that don't have much talent won't reach a very high tennis level, its just that some under the same circumstances will reach a much higher level.
From what I see here and meet people and their official level and how they trained, it seems the lowest end of the spectrum for players who start at young age and commit to alot of tennis every day is around UTR11 and the highest is obviously UTR16 or ATP top players.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
I think you will find effort pretty closely correlated to level up to about 12-13utr.
Then some people aren't good enough to get better than that.
Very few people trained intensely as juniors and are only 10-11utr by college. Played tennis from 5-18 sure, but really tried and only got to 10, not many at all.
J
FiReFTW
Legend
A few here in my country are around high UTR11 to 12ish as the lowest, but yeah lets say UTR12, in any case UTR12 to UTR16 is a HUGE gap, that was what my point was, some will just get much much better while others will cap out at UTR12 max, which is an amazing level and everything, my point was just that some just have a much lower ceiling sadly than others.
But the saddest thing for me personally is people who have alot of passion and love for tennis and love playing and have true commitment and love for it (regardless if their top ceiling is utr12 or utr16) or heck even adults who take it up later and have the same love and passion and desire to reach for the highest level, doesn't even have to be kids and juniors... and they just don't have the same conditions and the same chances to really practice and play as much as they want too or need too because of parents being poor or other situations, I find that really sad and sh*tty.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
The gap from 12-16 is much smaller than the gap from 8-12 which is much smaller than the gap from 4-8.
J
FiReFTW
Legend
True, but its still crazy to me what a big gap it is, a UTR16 can pretty much joke around and sleepwalk and beat a UTR12 easily, and they both trained for so long and put so much effort and decades into tennis.
Infact its even crazy how easily a top 3 ATP player can beat a top 200 or top 300 player, just boggles your mind.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
FiReFTW
Legend
J
Theres alot of such outliner matches, but on average take 20 matches from a big3 member vs a top 300 player and tell me the results of them, its NID.
