How come tour players dont use Volkl raquets??

BreakPoint · Apr 16, 2007

crosscourt said:
My feeling is that it can raise money other than from "private investors" or company insiders. You seem to imply that it can't unless it has listed shares.

What I implied is that it cannot raise money by selling its shares to the general public either on a stock exchange or otherwise because it's not a public company.

crosscourt said:
Unless by "private investors" you just mean shareholders who hold shares that aren't traded.

That is true that shareholders that hold shares in a private company cannot trade those shares on a public exchange, but "private investors" also means that these are qualified investors with minimum net worth and assests requirements as well as investment experience, such as rich people who invest in a lot of companies, venture capital funds, private equity funds, etc. There are very strict requirements as to who can and cannot invest in these types of securities. There's a reason why there are so many private equity funds with lots of money all over the world. As the name implies, they invest in private companies that the general public is not allowed to.

crosscourt · Apr 16, 2007

BreakPoint said:
What I implied is that it cannot raise money by selling its shares to the general public either on a stock exchange or otherwise because it's not a public company.

That is true that shareholders that hold shares in a private company cannot trade those shares on a public exchange, but "private investors" also means that these are qualified investors with minimum net worth and assests requirements as well as investment experience, such as rich people who invest in a lot of companies, venture capital funds, private equity funds, etc. There are very strict requirements as to who can and cannot invest in these types of securities. There's a reason why there are so many private equity funds with lots of money all over the world. As the name implies, they invest in private companies that the general public is not allowed to.

I don't understand this post at all.

BreakPoint · Apr 16, 2007

crosscourt said:
I don't understand this post at all.

Therein lies the problem.

You first have to make the distinction between the "general public" (e.g, anyone with a brokerage account) and "private investors" (e.g., high net worth individuals or funds who are qualified by securities regulations to make these types of high risk investments).

Then you have to make the distinction between a public company (e.g., some or all shares held by the general public which can be publicly traded on an exchange) and a private company (e.g., all shares held by private investors and company insiders which cannot be publicly traded on an exchange).

In any case, a private company is not public so it's irrelevant whether or not it's listed (which it can't be). A "listed" company is one in which its shares are listed on an exchange (and you must be public to do that).

Butters! · Apr 16, 2007

I've already stated my reason for the Volkl's not selling well or why pros don't use it. But have any of you guys hit with the DNX line? I own a DNX 9 now after demoing it a couple of weeks back. Sweet frame, nice feel, decent flex and nice pop. Really one of the best all around racquets that can complement any type of player, even a baseliner. I really recommend giving it a demo. The grip doesn't bother me and I also have a Babolat and Head. So I have a wide range in grip styles.

crosscourt · Apr 16, 2007

BreakPoint said:
Therein lies the problem.

You first have to make the distinction between the "general public" (e.g, anyone with a brokerage account) and "private investors" (e.g., high net worth individuals or funds who are qualified by securities regulations to make these types of high risk investments).

Then you have to make the distinction between a public company (e.g., some or all shares held by the general public which can be publicly traded on an exchange) and a private company (e.g., all shares held by private investors and company insiders which cannot be publicly traded on an exchange).

In any case, a private company is not public so it's irrelevant whether or not it's listed (which it can't be). A "listed" company is one in which its shares are listed on an exchange (and you must be public to do that).

Ok, so if I buy £1m shares in a private company other than to trade I am a private investor, but if I do the same thing in a public company I am not? This is a distinction that some people, me included, will find elusive. And are you saying that this is the reason why (i) Volkl rackets are not used by pro-players and (ii) do you still think that this is elated to the cosmetics of the rackets?

BreakPoint · Apr 16, 2007

crosscourt said:
Ok, so if I buy £1m shares in a private company other than to trade I am a private investor, but if I do the same thing in a public company I am not?

A "private investor" = an investor that invests in private companies, not an investor that is a public individual nor an investor that likes to keeps his investments secret nor an investor that is not part of the government, etc.

Anyone can invest in public companies by buying stock through a brokerage firm but only qualified individuals are allowed by securities regulations to invest in private companies.

crosscourt · Apr 17, 2007

BreakPoint said:
A "private investor" = an investor that invests in private companies, not an investor that is a public individual nor an investor that likes to keeps his investments secret nor an investor that is not part of the government, etc.

Anyone can invest in public companies by buying stock through a brokerage firm but only qualified individuals are allowed by securities regulations to invest in private companies.

This may be valid distinction in the US, I don't know, though I find it surprising. But it isn't valid in any jurisdiction in Europe that I am aware of. There are certainly differences in the information that has to be provided to purchasers of shares according to their experience etc to protect against fraud. But there is no restriction on the type of purchaser of shares in a private compamy. There is, as you know, a huge industry in funding private companies thorugh share issues.

Rory G · Apr 17, 2007

This is all great fun re: "private investors" etc....but why don't tour players use Volkl?

crosscourt · Apr 17, 2007

Rory G said:
This is all great fun re: "private investors" etc....but why don't tour players use Volkl?

I agree that we seem to have strayed from the point. But one of the issues raised was lack of funds.

little_e · Apr 17, 2007

Because they don't offer the same player deals that the big three offer. Why else does a player like Lubicic leave Babolat and go to Head where they develop a racquet that will play similarlly to his Babolat without them offering him more money? If you are happy at your job and another company in the same line of work comes along and offers you double what you make now are you going to stay in your current job or take the offer? I think most people would take the higher offer tennis pros are the same way.

drakulie · Apr 17, 2007

^^^^Additionally, since Volkl currently has very little exposure, most up and comers don't play with them. They are using what they see pros using >>Babolat, Head, Wilson, etc.

OzNQc · Apr 18, 2007

Well when some kid wins a grand slam with a volkl....

Maybe one day, a kid is gonna win a grandslam with a volkl and what will we all think then?? That is of course if Volkl is still there but my guess is it will not disappear!

asadvis · Apr 25, 2007

I find the Volkl DNX 10 Mid very beautiful, elegant, etc....

The Wilson K90 that uses Federer has the head frame a little thick and the paintjob isn´t very pretty (like a circus).

Too, I find the Volkl BB line is very ugly.

Now, Volkl is supporting young tennis players in SouthAmerica.

Saludos

Kick Serve 14 · Jul 15, 2009

Condoleezza said:
Because they prefer Völkl ski?

Condi

Touche... this is probably true

Hidious · Jul 15, 2009

Worst thread revival i've seen.

slice bh compliment · Jul 16, 2009

OzNQc said:
Maybe one day, a kid is gonna win a grandslam with a volkl and what will we all think then?? That is of course if Volkl is still there but my guess is it will not disappear!

Yeah, Australian Oipen, 1998. Petr Korda in straight sets over Marcelo Rios.

I cannot think of any others.
Of course, Novotna, Hingis, and lots of other slam champs have used Volkl at one point or another in their careers or as juniors. It's a great company with a solid tennis tradition, so I hope you're right...I hope it does not disappear.

Also, they have some of the finest leather grips and wristbands (like Babolat, only with a cooler logo).

Rabbit · Jul 16, 2009

^^^^
Here here on the wristbands. I bought the remaining stock at our local proshop. I don't think they make them any more.

There was an almost major winner when Medvedev played Agassi at RG.

I hope that Volkl rediscovers their roots.

vsbabolat · Jul 16, 2009

Rabbit said:
^^^^
Here here on the wristbands. I bought the remaining stock at our local proshop. I don't think they make them any more.

There was an almost major winner when Medvedev played Agassi at RG.

I hope that Volkl rediscovers their roots.

Medvedev was using a Fischer with a Volkl stencil on the strings in that 1999 RG Final against Agassi.

Rabbit · Jul 16, 2009

vsbabolat said:
Medvedev was using a Fischer with a Volkl stencil on the strings in that 1999 RG Final against Agassi.

Well darn....foiled again!

Andres · Jul 16, 2009

Butters! said:
I've already stated my reason for the Volkl's not selling well or why pros don't use it. But have any of you guys hit with the DNX line? I own a DNX 9 now after demoing it a couple of weeks back. Sweet frame, nice feel, decent flex and nice pop. Really one of the best all around racquets that can complement any type of player, even a baseliner. I really recommend giving it a demo. The grip doesn't bother me and I also have a Babolat and Head. So I have a wide range in grip styles.

I play with a DNX 9, and it's one of the sweetest racquets I've ever played with, and I come from a line of good ol' classic frames (PC600 and PSC6.1)

vsbabolat · Jul 16, 2009

Rabbit said:
Well darn....foiled again!

Those companies are very sneeky.;-)

Volkl use to be hugely popular in it's home market in Germany and in Eastern Europe. Remember all of those Russian players in the 80's using Volkl: Volkov, Chesnokov, and Cherkasov.

slice bh compliment · Jul 16, 2009

^Yes, good call^...and even before them, Helena Sukova and Sylvia Hanika. And Cyril Suk (brother of Helena Sukova).

Rabbit · Jul 16, 2009

slice bh compliment said:
^Yes, good call^...and even before them, Helena Sukova and Sylvia Hanika. And Cyril Suk (brother of Helena Sukova).

And Helena via Cyril was playing with a C10 OS last I saw her at Wimbledon.

coloskier · Jul 16, 2009

Pretty simple. They don't pay as much as Wilson, Babolat, Prince, Head, etc.

john whilesmith · Jul 17, 2009

Money talks and until Volkl is willing to pay a huge sum of money to a pro for endorsing one of their racquets, Wilson, Head, Babolat and Prince will continue to dominate on the pro circuits. In addition, the way the game is played currently (baseline bashing) by the majority of men and women on their respective tours and in the junior ranks lends itself to the stiffer and larger headsize racquets offered by Babolat and Wilson, as opposed to the more flexible offerings from Volkl. My 2 cents to which you may or may not agree.

pmerk34 · Jul 17, 2009

john whilesmith said:
Money talks and until Volkl is willing to pay a huge sum of money to a pro for endorsing one of their racquets, Wilson, Head, Babolat and Prince will continue to dominate on the pro circuits. In addition, the way the game is played currently (baseline bashing) by the majority of men and women on their respective tours and in the junior ranks lends itself to the stiffer and larger headsize racquets offered by Babolat and Wilson, as opposed to the more flexible offerings from Volkl. My 2 cents to which you may or may not agree.

There is nothing about them them makes anyone want to scour for places that sell them locally.

Rabbit · Jul 17, 2009

From what I understand, the majority of pros don't get $'s for playing with racquets. They get free racquets (and a limited number per year at that) if they agree to stencil. It is my further understanding that Volkl quit even giving equipment to its established pros. I think Dancevic and Kim would have continued to use Volkl if they could have just gotten them for free.

scraps234 · Jul 17, 2009

radek uses them or used to

crosscourt · Jul 17, 2009

Rabbit said:
From what I understand, the majority of pros don't get $'s for playing with racquets. They get free racquets (and a limited number per year at that) if they agree to stencil. It is my further understanding that Volkl quit even giving equipment to its established pros. I think Dancevic and Kim would have continued to use Volkl if they could have just gotten them for free.

How amazing. What does it cost them to give a pro 100 or so racquets. Must be next to nothing. Or is it all the back-up services they need that cost the money?

Rabbit · Jul 17, 2009

crosscourt said:
How amazing. What does it cost them to give a pro 100 or so racquets. Must be next to nothing. Or is it all the back-up services they need that cost the money?

Yep, such is life apparently. From what I understand, you're basically looking at $25/racquet to get it built/delivered. Volkl made a decision to not play in the pro market, or the senior market where they had a very big presence (for little/no $'s except for McEnroe who got way less than most folks would think). I think Volkl's decision to withdraw all sponshorships was based on the rift between old Volkl and Becker.

From what I saw, at one point just prior to Becker's involvement in Volkl, Volkl was the equal to Babolat in sponshorships. They had a number of players and their presence in the senior tour sold many frames to older players. It's a shame that all the politics of the Becker situation basically ruined the company.

ericsson · Jul 17, 2009

Rabbit said:
From what I understand, the majority of pros don't get $'s for playing with racquets. They get free racquets (and a limited number per year at that) if they agree to stencil. It is my further understanding that Volkl quit even giving equipment to its established pros. I think Dancevic and Kim would have continued to use Volkl if they could have just gotten them for free.

Rabbit, Kevin Kim is still under contract, he plays the PB10 with original T10 underneath. (back with the Volkl stencil)

RobFL · Jul 19, 2009

I've happily played 5-6 Volkl's at the 4.5-5.0 level for many years and they are fine products, BUT I don't believe they produce weapons and advantages at the 5.0-Pro level that Pros need and get from the Wilsons, Heads, Babs, etc. They are generally great control frames and very comfortable but if you're trying to play 5.0+ or something like age group national level, you just can't get there with Volkl. The C10 Pro Tour (93) is the closest one i've found if you can find it, that can hang in at this level but i'm in process of switching to the K90 Tour and it does have the slight extra heavy ball needed in high level har-tru, no Volkl is stock form can do that. Of course $, marketing, distribution contribute but Volkl's just don't help create advantages at the highest levels of play, and that's what you need-just the slightest advantage or short ball to construct and finish a point.

pmerk34 · Jul 19, 2009

RobFL said:
I've happily played 5-6 Volkl's at the 4.5-5.0 level for many years and they are fine products, BUT I don't believe they produce weapons and advantages at the 5.0-Pro level that Pros need and get from the Wilsons, Heads, Babs, etc. They are generally great control frames and very comfortable but if you're trying to play 5.0+ or something like age group national level, you just can't get there with Volkl. The C10 Pro Tour (93) is the closest one i've found if you can find it, that can hang in at this level but i'm in process of switching to the K90 Tour and it does have the slight extra heavy ball needed in high level har-tru, no Volkl is stock form can do that. Of course $, marketing, distribution contribute but Volkl's just don't help create advantages at the highest levels of play, and that's what you need-just the slightest advantage or short ball to construct and finish a point.

Head, Wilson, Babolat, Prince etc offer a full ine of frames available everywhere. There is nothing so special about Volkl to be forced to buy online, wait for special orders etc etc.

mec46205 · Jul 19, 2009

Rabbit said:
An interesting contrast is Volkl and Babolat. Volkl made rackets well before Babolat and for a while, was the mainstay racket of Eastern Block players such as Mandlikova, Korda, Fibak, and probably every Russian player back in the late 70s and early 80s.

Mandlikova used Wilson, first the Jack Kramer autograph, then she switched to the new line of Ultra 2s.

emerckx53 · Jul 19, 2009

drakulie said:
Pros are well aware that Volkls are not good racquets.

Because Wilson is 10 times the size of Volkl and they have paid for their players for over 50 years......not to mention they buy the players when they are juniors and then keep them...sort of like Nike...playtest a PB10 and a K90 and if you are honest about it it is a much better racquet for 95% of players..

pmerk34 · Jul 19, 2009

emerckx53 said:
Because Wilson is 10 times the size of Volkl and they have paid for their players for over 50 years......not to mention they buy the players when they are juniors and then keep them...sort of like Nike...playtest a PB10 and a K90 and if you are honest about it it is a much better racquet for 95% of players..

Nike and Wilson also make great products.

Rabbit · Jul 20, 2009

mec46205 said:
Mandlikova used Wilson, first the Jack Kramer autograph, then she switched to the new line of Ultra 2s.

Mandlikova also used a Volkl frame for a time.

Trickster · Jul 21, 2009

Didn't Taylor Dent use volkl?

slice bh compliment · Jul 21, 2009

Trickster said:
Didn't Taylor Dent use volkl?

He did.

From what I've seen, a lot of guys playtest them and like them....especially the c10, Tour 10, et al. Some even switch to Volkls, but then move on to bigger deals with larger companies with sort of similar frames.

Taylor did that with Wilson.

Most never actually switch, though. They try other sticks, threated to switch, then renegotiate with one of the larger companies.

I understand Rafter was considering switching to a Volkl, but Prince upped the ante and renewed his deal.

Blake, similar thing right before his first go'round with Dunlop.

Anyway, Volkl is a cool racquet brand. Hope they will survive.

Trickster · Jul 22, 2009

Hey Rabbit, do you still have those c9 sticks for sale?

email me if you do!

Mahler · Jul 22, 2009

Money is the awswer. I have used (for long periods) Head, Dunlop, Volkl and Boris Backer frames and -at least for me- the last two are by far the best.

suwanee4712 · Oct 26, 2015

Rabbit said:
Mandlikova also used a Volkl frame for a time.

That might be the frame that I saw her using at the 1980 French Open. I believe she played Wimbledon two weeks later with a Dunlop, and by the US Open was with Wilson for good.

Rubens · Oct 26, 2015

They seem to be quite stingy in terms of sponsorship deals with players. I know of a local promising junior who used (and loved) the C10, but then she had a lucrative sponsorship deal with Yonex (don't know the details) so she switched to the VCORE Tour G (330) because she felt it was Yonex's most similar racquet to the C10... And Volkl lost yet another player.

mavsman149 · Oct 26, 2015

Kinda sad, while I can't say I've tried any of their rackets in a few years, everyone I have tried was pretty good!

I just looked at their website and couldn't even find a list of players using their rackets.

Lavs · Oct 27, 2015

I tried some Völkl rackets and dropped them. I tried some Völkl ski and keep them

Völkl seems much better in skiing than in tennis.

mctennis · Oct 29, 2015

Trickster said:
Didn't Taylor Dent use volkl?

Yes, he did for a long while. He had a lot of injuries and I think he switched to another brand ( perhaps Wilson) the last year he was on the tour.

BJG · Oct 30, 2015

I took these photos myself at Wimbledon in 2001. Taylor Dent vs Sergei Bruguera on an outer court, both using Volkl racquets. Dent simply steamrolled Bruguera with an impressive display of serve/volley and chip/charge. Goran Ivanisevic won the title that year, and was unseeded and relegated to outer courts for the first few rounds, which I was fortunate to see his first three rounds, and was sitting directly behind him during his first round match.

mctennis · Oct 31, 2015

Great pics BJG. Thanks for posting them.

ChicagoJack · Nov 2, 2015

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the Volkl wielding, doubles sorcerer known as Jean-Julien Rojer. He just won the Men's Doubles title at Wimbledon 2015.

Also, here is a partial list of pro players that have used Volkl over the years. I'm certain that I've overlooked many, and feel free to mention.

Men
Petr Korda
Sergei Brugera
John Mc Enroe
Radek Stepanek
Jean Julien Rojer
Taylor Dent
Kevin Kim
Jiri Novak
Felix Mantilla
Boris Becker
Micheal Kohlman
Frank Dancevic
Yannick Noah
Henri Le Conte
Mats Wilander
Pat Cash
Jamie Baker
Liezel Huber
Andre Begeman
Martin Damm
Eric Taino
Santiago Ventura
Rohan Bopana
Felix Mantilla
Andreji Chesnakov
Michel Kratochvil
Roman Valent
Todor Enev
Jun Kato

Women
Sam Stosur
Stephanie Voegele
Melinda Czink
Bethanie Mattek
Daniela Hantukova
Lizel Huber
Dominika Cibulkova
Tatiana Golovin
Asa Carlsson

Kemitak · Jan 30, 2021

BJG said:
I took these photos myself at Wimbledon in 2001. Taylor Dent vs Sergei Bruguera on an outer court, both using Volkl racquets. Dent simply steamrolled Bruguera with an impressive display of serve/volley and chip/charge. Goran Ivanisevic won the title that year, and was unseeded and relegated to outer courts for the first few rounds, which I was fortunate to see his first three rounds, and was sitting directly behind him during his first round match.

Be a gent and post these again. Tinypic binned them. Great photos, as I recall.

How come tour players dont use Volkl raquets??

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