thisiscrazy
Rookie
Easy there tiger. I don't have a dog in the fight, just posting what I saw on the boards.
So either you or the Babolat official is wrong. You might be right but I'll trust the Babolat official.
Most Pros are using stock racquets
- Thread starter happyandbob
- Start date
Easy there tiger. I don't have a dog in the fight, just posting what I saw on the boards.
So either you or the Babolat official is wrong. You might be right but I'll trust the Babolat official.
thisiscrazy
Rookie
I agree, if it's only a paint job, that does not = pro stock.
am1899
Legend
And yet you started the thread...
Purportedly a stock racquet which can’t be purchased “off the shelf” anymore.
Up to you. Me, i’d be more inclined to trust someone who’s actually “in the know,” as opposed to someone who is here to represent a corporation’s interests on a public forum.
TagUrIt
Hall of Fame
I everyone has their own definition/interpretation of what a stock racquet is that’s why there’s a lot of debate. I personally think a stock racquet with lead tape, leather grip is just a customized racquet, not necessarily a pro stock racquet.
1HBHfanatic
Legend
-how about having 10, 20, 30 rackets weight the same??
-how often do we see posts here (TW board) about 2, 3 racquets having to be custom weighted by TW???!!!
am1899
Legend
Which is exactly why I said Hayley’s statement was vague. No disrespect to her, but equipment on the tour (the main tours especially) is not as cut and dry as she made it out to be.
1HBHfanatic
Legend
-because of this ^, and the hassle it would represent to do 2, 3 times in a year ,(to accommodate the player racquet consumption) is why i truly believe that manufacturers get contract PROS to their "pro stock" models asap!!
-they can then select that specific "pro stock" model/weight as a starting mold and doctor/customize it up to the agreed specs of the racquet contract!!
-much much easier to start there, then have to go through 100, 200 racquets to find 20 that match the weight they want
and/or
-the manufacturers sends the #s of racquets to a third party custom shop, to get the "off the wall racquets" up to spec, for that player
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
How does a paint job not = pro stock? Can you buy a 2018 Pure Drive with a paint job of the 2021 Pure Drive. That is a stock of racquet that is only available to pros therefore that’s Pro Stock.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
You can’t buy what she is using tiger. She is using a paint job
As you can see the grommets are completely different on Kenin’s racquets indicating that she is still using the 2018 Pure Drive and a paint job of the 2021 Pure Drive
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I disagree with vsb on the paintjob being not off the shelf opinion, but i did think this post was hilarious. Vsb is a one of the best here when it comes to knowing about frames.
to me a painted off the shelf frame is technically the same layup as sold to the public ( in an earlier year) which is what I think people are focused on.
TennisHound
Legend
BLASPHEMY!!!!
70sStrokes
Rookie
jangotango
Semi-Pro
Currently uses a prostock Head "Speed Pro." Extended length. Although he has been going on and on about the VCore 95 recently.
thisiscrazy
Rookie
I know VSB is one of the more well-informed posters on this board. I wasn’t contradicting his info with my own - was just relaying a quote from another poster who I thought had some credibility. But apparently Babolat Official doesn’t according to everyone on this thread, even with Babolat racquets.
Also, when people refer to pro-stock I think it’s fair to say they mean more than just a paint-job.
Disagree. Pro stock is a racquet that Joe public CANNOT purchase from the manufacturer or authorized retailer, but the sponsored athlete CAN get.
Example: Wilson H19 16x19 WAS pro stock only until Wilson released Ultra Pro 16x19. Before I couldn't get it, now I can.
happyandbob
Legend
Yes, because I heard something interesting in a TW podcast from an actual pro and thought it would make good fodder for discussion. Seemed to me like some useful info to inform the conversation.
happyandbob
Legend
So does that make the Wilson custom paint job racquets = pro stock? For this specific example that we are discussing, if I can go on **** and buy a 2018 Pure Drive and it has the same specs as hers, regardless of the paint job, it's the same car. Red Ferrari vs yellow Ferrari is the same car IMO.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Do you know her specs on it?
happyandbob
Legend
But that's not analogous to the specific example that seems to be the focus right now. The issue appears to be whether a different paint job = pro stock. There is no debate that the underlying physical racquet is retail.
Some people think paint <> pro stock. Some think paint = pro stock. At least that's my takeaway.
thisiscrazy
Rookie
If your sole basis of pro-stock is something that not everyone can buy, ok. Fair enough. But that Wilson example is a frame with mold/specs that wasn't available to any Joe as you say. The racquet referred to earlier was about an actual shelf racquet with just a paint job - so any any Joe could buy that model with the same specs, just without an updated paint job. Apples to oranges. Moot anyway in Kenin's case as VSB pointed out.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
You’re conflating things. The 2018 Pure Drive is out of production. That racquet is being produced for the pros on tour only with the current cosmetics of the 2021 Pure Drive. That’s what makes it pro stock. It’s an out of production racquet at retail being made for the sole intention of being given to their pros in new current cosmetics to use to promote current inline racquets.
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mtommer
Hall of Fame
Easy. Paint is purely cosmetic.
mtommer
Hall of Fame
Great. All the Dunlop CX Tour 200s I bought up are now pro stock as I'll paint them to match the new cosmetics. Thanks for confirming. If a racquet was sold at retail, it isn't pro stock anything. Rather, it's: "Boy, sure wish I would have bought more frames when I had the chance.", stock.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
You’re twisting my words to fit your stupid narrative
mtommer
Hall of Fame
Or she's using a pre production run and the grommets were all a different color at that time, or not. All different grommets indicate in and of themselves is that they are different.
mtommer
Hall of Fame
No. If I can do anything the companies can do to my racquet...it ain't pro jack squat.
Dragy
Legend
No, they are mtommer stock now, not pro
Return_Ace
Hall of Fame
Noone here seems to have even nitpicked the whole Pro - Gloss Paint, Retail - Matte Paint argument yet, so I'll throw that fuel onto this fire as well .
.The only thing that I don’t care for with respect to this is that companies use the best players in the world to sell their current frames on the market. As it turns out the player is not even using that particular frame. For instance, Halep, she has been using a Steam 99 all these years and been through numerous paint jobs.
Kvitova and Svitolina have done the same thing over the years. It’s easier to recognize with them because the frames are gloss paint.
Kvitova and Svitolina have done the same thing over the years. It’s easier to recognize with them because the frames are gloss paint.
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Can you buy a 2018 racquet with a 2021 paint job from the manufacturer/retailer? If you cannot buy it, it is pro stock. That is literally what pro stock means, equipment that is available to professionals that is not available to the public.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
You can make up any fantasy you want. That’s the way now
happyandbob
Legend
OMG ok. You guys are funny. If a racquet was retail two years ago and basically the same underlying racquet was being sold a few months ago, it seems to me that you're being awfully literal to call it pro stock just because it was painted. And yes, I can buy a new 2018 racquet all over the internet, but to your point it will be without her special paint.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
It’s nice to know this 2013 Aero Storm with Aero Pro Drive paint is just an off the shelf racquet.
And this 2001 Pure Drive with painted active cortex is another off the shelf racquet that was not made for any pro what so ever. That you could buy this easily form retailers Like TW. Oh wait you can’t be use this is Pro Stock. A racquet that was made specifically for pros!
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happyandbob
Legend
You've made your point. You believe paint makes a racquet different than another racquet with the same physical specs.
The whole point of using the current paint is so the consumer will go out and buy the new frame. It’s all about companies trying to sell frames and using players to do it. Sure the company will provide the player with the older frame. Kinda false advertisement.
Normally whether it is and older frame or new frame they are modified frames, different string lay ups, lead, silicone filled handles, sometimes different handles etc.
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happyandbob
Legend
This discussion has been interesting and makes me think of another question.
For the rank and file touring pro -- how long do they use a racquet before they replace it with a newer one of the same model? I know they bring multiple racquets to a tournament, how long until each one of those is retired?
For the rank and file touring pro -- how long do they use a racquet before they replace it with a newer one of the same model? I know they bring multiple racquets to a tournament, how long until each one of those is retired?
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Depends on the player, depends on their rank as to how many they get a year. Some top ones are 30-40 racquets a year
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
That’s not it all. You don’t understand it all.
happyandbob
Legend
I do understand your point. You want to specify that pro stock is something I cannot buy and for her racquet it is specifically and only because of the paint job. And because they are continuing to make that discontinued racquet with that paint job it is technically pro stock.
It's just not a compelling point. I can buy a new 2018 racquet today. Her exact racquet minus the paint job. That means you're insisting that her racquet is pro stock specifically because of the paint.
If it were a 10 year old racquet, I totally get your point because it would be impossible to buy new. In this specific case, the day they discontinued the 2018 racquet, hers becomes pro stock when the day before it was retail?
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Hit 'em clean
Semi-Pro
So I think we can all agree that for some a paint job = pro stock and for some of us it doesn't... geesh. Agree to disagree at some point, but I'm in the camp where if they are using a retail frame... I don't care if it was from 20 years ago... it's a retail frame and not what I would call pro stock. Pro stock to me is something specifically made that Joe Public never had access to and was not made for retail distribution... like an H19 or H22. Yeah... I know Wilson is now selling those... but not through retail distribution.
My line of thinking is (to steal the Nascar analogy some have tried to use)... if I paint a Toyota Camry to look like a Nascar stock car does that make it a stock car? Obviously not... if the layup or mold is different than retail... I'll even go as far as a different string pattern... that to me is a real pro stock.
Anything I can do to alter the frame with lead, silicone or a handle pallet change... doesn't change the fact that it's still a customized off the shelf frame.
Tomato, tomaaato, potato, potaaato
My line of thinking is (to steal the Nascar analogy some have tried to use)... if I paint a Toyota Camry to look like a Nascar stock car does that make it a stock car? Obviously not... if the layup or mold is different than retail... I'll even go as far as a different string pattern... that to me is a real pro stock.
Anything I can do to alter the frame with lead, silicone or a handle pallet change... doesn't change the fact that it's still a customized off the shelf frame.
Tomato, tomaaato, potato, potaaato
mtommer
Hall of Fame
Yes, it is nice to know. It's also nice to know that there are juniors who are going to be using the new 2021 models that have/will be released and in ten or so years, the very same racquet that we can buy right now, as in right this second, will be used on the pro tour and we can all reminisce about how great so and so racquet was, even though right now many of those same people will cycle through x amount of these models because they find faults of this issue or that issue and then lament on about: "Oh how they wish they could get the "pro stock" (ten years from now) that such and such player is using."
Point being, many of us could care less that so and so company kept a few boxes of a thousand or so hairpins from whatever year so they can keep popular pros on the payroll that help them to sell merchandise and keep the high quality gear available for consumers year after year. Hit'em clean has basically iterated what needs to be said. You don't agree. You may be technically correct about how you define a pro stock racquet but that doesn't mean you correct in spirit as to why a pro stock racquet is often levied about as a big deal, you know what with the special magical fairy dust that is imbued in all pro stock that allows pros to achieve amazingly fantastic feats of pro-dom that is beyond us mere mortals.
TagUrIt
Hall of Fame
I asked Karue (from my Tennis HQ) about this he's a former ATP player and he said "Some do some don't. Mostly they just customize weight and balance, it's not like they have completely different rackets". Even with that being said, everyone is will and is still entitled to their own opinions.
Vicious49
Legend
That is correct.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
They make them new. They don’t have hairpins hanging around for decades. There’s no boxes hanging around of hairpins. You don’t have any understanding of what you’re taking about. None what so ever. They make them new for the pros and paint them. Yes, I am technically correct because I have actual real world experience with this. I’m not someone like you sitting here pontificating on something with no real world experience like you.
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gebruikershaes
Rookie
How can this even be a discussion? A pro stock racquet is a frame that has never been sold to the public and is made from different materials than retail rackets. Eg better quality graphite. Racquets like H22/19 and PT57. A racquet that is out of mass production and that has been painted to look like current model is just a paint job. Regardless if it's made just for a pro player. The mold and the materials are the same as the one that has been mass produced. Thus making it just a paint job.
mtommer
Hall of Fame
Uhhhhh.....yeah, no kidding they don't literally have boxes of each model they make just in case a pro may one day want their favorite racquet instead of something new. Ever hear of hyperbole? At the same time, neither is a racquet here and a racquet there being made. Anyone with cf mfg experience knows why.
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