No I didn’t. That is merely your erroneous hysterical interpretation.
Tennis Elbow. Is it curable?
- Thread starter badjelix
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- elbow pain tennis elbow
happyandbob
Legend
well, truth be told, your original post comes across like this:
"I can't believe you guys aren't using PRP. I told you guys 12 years years ago that PRP is the one true cure. If you search for that post you'll learn how to cure it"
so I can see what @Dartagnan64 is saying
Google “ hysterical personality disorder” I’ll pray for you!
ichaseballs
Professional
theraband flexbar. the "tyler twist" is all i do. i own the red and green one
vergica
Rookie
I got a severe tennis golf which ruined all my 2019 summer tennis. I got rid of it taking a month off and having a PRP injection at the end of the period. All the other procedures didn't help and yes I have tried almost all of them mentioned here. I highly recommend the PRP for golf elbow.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Adding lead is one of the best defenses IMHO. Making the handle bigger should help too. These days i don't think I will ever get te from tennis even with my crazy tensions and stiff strings.My TE lasted about 18 months in total. Only stopped playing for 2 weeks because of extreme pain. Then I bought a "vertical" mouse because I work behind a computer all day, started using the flexbar and massaging the tendons.
Bought a more armfriendly racket, installed a Wilson shock shield grip and added some more lead to the handle. Strung with a multi of course. Then started playing with a TE brace and only training and light friendly hitting. That way I could focus on technique and clean hitting.
Slowly but steadily it improved until it plateaued at one point. After 2 months I had my racket strung with a full bed of gut and in 2-3 weeks the final sting disappeared.
Now I only get the occasional irritated feeling after hardhitting dead, heavy balls. So I am a firm believer in the theory that people should play with heavy rackets instead of those ultralight balsasticks. When you hit an object you want the biggest hammer you can wield
Stretching and massage is a big help and heat too.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I wouldn't say hysterical. But I believe you were overly hyperbolic and I inserted some tempering of that enthusiasm. It's a good treatment but the evidence doesn't point to it as the "one true cure" (your words).
happyandbob
Legend
It seems like he was saying your measured response noting he was being hyperbolic was actually due to "hysterical personality disorder". mine too.
I find that ironically hysterical given the tenor of his responses.
Of course you do. That’ symptomatic of your condition.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Well if by hysterical personality disorder you mean that we find many of the responses on these forums hilarious, then I'm definitely a "hysterical personality" lol.
I think everyone who knows me would consider me almost the exact opposite of "hysterical" being the king of moderation who sees almost everything in the shade of grey.
hochiglenn
New User
Just an FYI. I've had prior posts regarding this issue. I had golfers elbow for a year and tried everything. The only thing that worked for me was ASTYM therapy. Took about 8 30 minute sessions and it disappeared. Fast forward about 2 years and I've switched to a heavier racquet and it's causing me some tennis elbow. Today, I went to my ASTYM therapist (who is also just a regular PT who is ASTYM certified) after about 2 weeks of TE. I'll probably be cured in a 2-3 weeks. I've have used the flexbar in the past but it took about 2-3 months before it was gone. Just thought I'd nip it in the bud now. Look for an ASTYM therapist in your area. You'll be amazed.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
So my second run with TE is almost fixed. Same answer as before: Little less playing, flexible frame, soft strings. Brace while playing. Massage gun and flex bar on off days.
Root cause was poly strings, Triniti balls (the polyester of tennis balls), Learning a new serve motion and over practicing it. That and being older.
Root cause was poly strings, Triniti balls (the polyester of tennis balls), Learning a new serve motion and over practicing it. That and being older.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Need to have it on the right spot. The compression should be over the extensor muscles and if you extend the wrist there should be no discomfort in the tendon insertion. You should be able to find the right spot just experimenting with pressing on forearm muscles with your left hand. There should be a compression point where you can extend the wrist with no pain. Thats where you brace.
HolyMountain
Rookie
I was screwing around last year with high tension ALU Power in very soft PT57A frames. Got up to 70lbs I think. All was great! Then one day, my elbow literally started taking on fluid as I drove home from the club. I promptly switched to a full bed of gut and took a week off. All was well. Went back to gut/poly for the rest of summer, fall, first of winter. This spring I had two genius ideas - one to revisit full poly but at 54lbs and/or 52lbs, the other was to try poly mains/gut crosses. I also decided to try a larger grip at the same time ( I have big hands but play with a 4 3/8, went to 4 1/2). First match with full poly I was returning a big serve, locked up my forearm and insta pain. This was actually worse than the previous summer, in fact, previous summer didn't really hurt, just fluid on the joint. Pain was in my upper forearm halfway between my elbow and wrist. Took a week off, switched back to my gut/poly, no issues. Then decided a few weeks later to try that poly/gut frame. Played two low paced matches with some older friends, pain was so bad I couldn't finish the last set of the last match. That was a week ago. This time it was so bad I couldn't make a fist, open a jelly jar, etc. without significant pain. Iced it, started taking some prescription NSAID, today all feels fine. What I have noticed, I can find the insertion point of the tendon and on my injured arm it is noticeably swollen. Not like a huge lump but certainly more larger than the other arm. I think I am going to hit tomorrow with my full gut frame strung at 60lbs. Might restring another at 56lbs. A friend of mine who has been playing for 25 years longer than me is of the opinion, once you get it from messing with poly, its best to avoid poly for years, if not forever.
HolyMountain
Rookie
I forgot to add, I also went from 6pt HL to 4pts HL and from 325g to 333g. Just went and served a bunch, initial impression is ouch. After I loosened up was good to go, kick serves def. easier than flat serves. See what tomorrow brings.
HolyMountain
Rookie
On outside of arm
HolyMountain
Rookie
Moved eventually into the joint
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Do some searches here (ttw) on TE ... no sure answers with TE, but it is generally believed there is a threshold past initial injury that can lead to chronic injury. Playing "through it" without time off to heal can be a bad idea.
HolyMountain
Rookie
Yeah it had been a month with no issues so I figured I was ok
this **** sounds scary
Just a note a caution, that sounds rather suspect. Don't really want to start a debate but do your own research and consult a medical professional if necessary.
enishi1357
Semi-Pro
At the risk of sounding ignorant and possibly patronizing maybe stop doing whatever you are doing and do something that you coaching is telling you in a different way. If I get tennis elbow I don't continue doing what i was doing, I do something else.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
The Differences Between Tendinitis and Tendinosis
We talked to sports medicine physicians about the difference between tendinitis and tendinosis, including what causes these conditions and the different treatment options available for each.
health.clevelandclinic.org
I'm not sure why you posted that article, i.e. what point do you want me to get from it?The Differences Between Tendinitis and Tendinosis
We talked to sports medicine physicians about the difference between tendinitis and tendinosis, including what causes these conditions and the different treatment options available for each.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I thought you were saying the warning was suspect ... and even I misunderstood, others might want to read that article. Just trying to provide info ... unfortunately I ended up doing a lot of reading on TE.
I was replying to this comment " it is generally believed there is a threshold past initial injury that can lead to chronic injury. Playing "through it" without time off to heal can be a bad idea. "
In most cases I don't think this is true, if in any doubt should see a medical professional but if someone just has inflammation it generally will not lead to a chronic condition.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
That was the point of the article. Sometimes you can turn tendinitis (temporary inflammation) into tendinosis (tendon damage).
"Tendinosis, on the other hand, is a chronically damaged tendon with disorganized fibers and a hard, thickened, scarred and rubbery appearance. The underlying cause in tendinosis is degeneration."
Since none of us know when we will not be "most cases" ... a commonsense approach might be taking a couple of weeks off when TE pain first shows up.
I assume I ended up with moderate permanent damage ... can play hours of summer singles with Volkl racquet and Head Velocity multi without one elbow twinge. I can play one hour with same Volkl racquet and poly strung low ... and have an elbow twinge after play. Before TE ... played years with Babolat Pure Drive and RPM Blast strung at 52lbs. Didn't even restring regularly.
"if in any doubt should see a medical professional"
My primary doc would have had no idea my elbow just reached it's RPM Blast shelf life ... happened fast with little warning.
No worries ... others might want the info.
I think degenerative conditions are pretty rare, at least based on my personal experience and experience of several playing partners and others I’ve talked to, but I’m not a doctor.
happyandbob
Legend
I think it's pretty well established now that tennis elbow is a degenerative disease and not tendonitis -- that's why some treatments that work for tendonitis (i.e. rest) do not work for tennis elbow or golfers elbow and why the recovery time is so much longer than tendonitis. The treatments with a research base that have been shown to work seem to be eccentric exercises (e.g. tyler twist) and deep friction (e.g. massage or scraping).
Well established by who?
happyandbob
Legend
Is the NIH good enough for you?
tyler twist - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2971639
deep friction - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312643/
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
That is now Principally used in Florida elementary schools
Those articles are both about 10 years old. I think they may be a bit outdated.
happyandbob
Legend
That's silly. Are you aware of newer research that disproves these two?
You know, the research that proved the earth is round is about 3000 years old. That seems pretty outdated too.
Yes I believe current thinking has changed.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@happyandbob
Agreed. We are no longer blindly accepting the outdated notion that the Earth is round (or an oblate spheroid)
happyandbob
Legend
I'm all ears and eager to learn about what causes you to believe that. Please share.
Honestly it seems obvious to me. I didn’t think there was much debate. I’m sure if you Google can easily be found.
Tyler twists and actually lifting weights will fix TE. (Not 5 lbs at the PT)
2 weeks of rest maximum.
Think a lot of conflicting information comes from what may be good for older people that have potentially done irreversible damage over many years.
Push through the pain with weights, not with more tennis.
2 weeks of rest maximum.
Think a lot of conflicting information comes from what may be good for older people that have potentially done irreversible damage over many years.
Push through the pain with weights, not with more tennis.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Flat Earther!
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happyandbob
Legend
Got it. So because it's "obvious" to you, you pooh pooh actual research that runs counter to your "belief". You ask for evidence, but can't provide any yourself.
This is 99% of what's wrong with America right now, this sense of entitlement that uninformed individual opinions are as valid as actual evidence.
It’s up to you but I wouldn’t put too much weight in a couple studies you found that are a decade old.
happyandbob
Legend
Sure thing. Instead, I'll put my faith in PKorda who told me to "google it"
happyandbob
Legend
Here's some food for thought for you. The notion that you keep citing about "studies that are a decade old" isn't a thing. All knowledge builds upon previous older research. The fact that those things are a decade old, should give you confidence, not pause because studies don't age out -- they are augmented or disproven by additional research.
The studies that proved most diseases are caused by unseen germs is very old. Most modern medicine is built on top of those "old" studies. Those 10 year old tennis elbow studies that found demonstrated actual proof that some treatments work for tennis elbow are a good thing.
Now, if over the last 10 years, you have seen evidence that those studies were wrong, then obviously we learned new things and moved the knowledge base in a different direction. However, if there hasn't been counter evidence over the last 10 years, you best serve yourself if you start from those "old" studies as the starting point for your opinion.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Over a month pain free. No longer even bracing. Rested 1 week at the beginning. Never iced. No anti-inflammatories.
Deep tissue massage and Tyler Twists were my therapy as well as softening my gear.
As someone that has developed 6 tendinopathies in the last 6 years, I've fixed every one with eccentric exercise, deep tissue massage, bracing and modulating my gear or technique. No rest, ice, elevation.
My general advice is that if it hurts during the activity, stop the activity. If it only hurts after the activity is done, then start trying to get more blood flow to the tendon to improve it's regenerative capabilities.
Deep tissue massage and Tyler Twists were my therapy as well as softening my gear.
As someone that has developed 6 tendinopathies in the last 6 years, I've fixed every one with eccentric exercise, deep tissue massage, bracing and modulating my gear or technique. No rest, ice, elevation.
My general advice is that if it hurts during the activity, stop the activity. If it only hurts after the activity is done, then start trying to get more blood flow to the tendon to improve it's regenerative capabilities.
HolyMountain
Rookie
I had a hitting lesson for 2hrs yesterday, practiced serves for about 30 minutes, then had a doubles match in the evening. I iced it after each session. Today I am a little stiff in the top of my forearm ( if palm was flat on table). A little swollen in the tendon but overall ok. Two things I certainly figured out, I was trying to consciously pronate my wrist to catch the back corner of the ad side box, this was resulting in muscling the serve and not extending my arm. I made a concerted effort to toss a bit higher and fully extend - no pain at all. Now I think I need to just manage my playing time and do some RICE and exercises. In my case, I am unsure it is tennis elbow and not just an overuse and/or misuse injury.
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