The day S&V tactic was reborn

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic gave life to the S&V strategy yesterday. Djokovic of all people by the way. He used it as a tactic to win the match yesterday, and here are some numbers from Craig Oshannessy. This is remarkable from Djokovic, and the level of adaptation is extraordinary. I said yesterday the biggest statement Djokovic made wasn't the win itself, but in the manner how he did it. 39 (!) times in total he attempted to serve and volley.

Here are the numbers:


Brain Game: Djokovic's Antidote to Medvedev's Deep Returning Is...

You can’t regularly serve and volley in today’s game.
The statement above is worth reading again because it needs to be the last time you ever see it in print. It’s a myth. The death of serve and volley in our sport is pure misconception, and Novak Djokovic may as well have put the final nail in the coffin of this delusional fallacy once and for all in the Rolex Paris Masters final on Sunday.
World No. 1, Djokovic, defeated No. 2, Daniil Medvedev 4-6, 6-3, 6-3 in two hours and 15 minutes minutes on the back of winning 19 of 22 serve and volley points. Djokovic won a stunning 86 per cent of his serve and volley points to completely throw a monkey wrench into the Russian’s monotonous baseline strategy of sticking the Serb in the backhand cage deep in the Ad court.
For the record, Djokovic served and volleyed 22 times - including once a second serve which he won - and also attempted another 17 serve and volley points that were a fault.
He wanted to serve and volley 39 times in a Masters 1000 final against the second-best player in the world. Nothing dead about that strategy.

Instead of abandoning the aggressive serve-and-volley play to focus on trying to dismantle Medvedev in baseline exchanges, Djokovic doubled down on serve and volley in set two, winning all 12 serve and volley points played. It’s worth noting that he also hit five faults that he wanted to serve and volley on in set two as well. Djokovic won two of three serve and volley points in set three as Medvedev unravelled early in the point. The constant forward pressure had finally paid off.

The net was Djokovic’s safe haven in the Paris final.

Djokovic initially served and volleyed on the third point of the match, trailing 0/30 in the opening game. He lost that point and was broken soon after. He did win five of seven serve and volley points in the opening set but lost the set 6-4. The game plan was forming. The execution was improving. The mindset was patient.
Instead of abandoning the aggressive serve-and-volley play to focus on trying to dismantle Medvedev in baseline exchanges, Djokovic doubled down on serve and volley in set two, winning all 12 serve and volley points played. It’s worth noting that he also hit five faults that he wanted to serve and volley on in set two as well. Djokovic won two of three serve and volley points in set three as Medvedev unravelled early in the point. The constant forward pressure had finally paid off.
The net was Djokovic’s safe haven in the Paris final.

Djokovic ended up +19 (54 won / 35 lost) in the short rallies up to four shots. This is where serve and volley reigned supreme. A key component of the Serb’s instant forays to the net was to avoid hitting his first volley deep, where Medvedev would enjoy another crack at a passing shot. Instead, Djokovic’s first volley was cleverly hit short in the court with angle, which was ideal considering Medvedev stands very deep in the court to return serve.

Our sport has recently entered into an era where players such as Medvedev are taking up extremely deep return positions. Their goal is to let the serve slow down to commit fewer return errors, while also allowing them to swing as hard as possible, making the return behave much more like a regular groundstroke than a blocking, abbreviated stroke. Djokovic showed time and time again in the final that serve and volley is the perfect antidote for that tactic.
Once rallies began in the Paris final, Medvedev attempted a copy/paste of the recent US Open final, which he won against Djokovic by overdosing on backhand-to-backhand exchanges. Djokovic hit 188 backhand groundstrokes in the Paris final and only 155 groundstroke forehands.
Medvedev was on course for a rinse and repeat of New York. Serve and volley came to the rescue for Djokovic.
Djokovic committed 12 backhand groundstroke errors and only hit one backhand groundstroke winner for the match. If he didn’t have serve and volley to constantly stay on the front foot and keep the points short, he would have had no way to short-circuit Medvedev’s incessant Ad court exchanges.

The Serb’s goose would surely be cooked in the absence of serve and volley.
Serve and volley gets little respect in today’s game. We gave up on it long ago, but it never gave up on us, constantly delivering strong win percentages. The No. 1 player in the world took it off life support in the Paris final and gave this “old school” pattern of play the love it thoroughly deserves. If anyone tells you that serve and volley doesn’t work, send them a link to Sunday's final.


Welcome back, old friend.

a0cf26f475ae0e0691fe095ea2f8f4e6-getty-77848985ms025_rogers_master.jpg
 
Last edited:

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Sensational match and sensational turn around by Djokovic here, it shows the different levels to his very complete game. When he needed it, he brought it to the dance and got back at Medvedev, basically locking in 354 weeks now at number one at minimum.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
S/V works better in this poly era when it is a surprise and used against returners who stand far back. Next time, Medvedev will be prepared for it as will other Djokovic opponents. On the other hand, coming to the net often to end points off good approaches is a viable tactic that should still work for Djokovic in the future. If he uses S/V enough to make guys like Medvedev, Nadal and Thiem abandon their deep return position, it will still be a positive as he is making them adjust to him rather than the other way around.

What is more concerning to me is that he lost most of the BH-BH rallies against Medvedev in both the USO final and at Bercy. He didn’t fare that well against Zverev at both the AO and USO on BH-BH rallies either. The GOAT BH that he used to have is no more and he seems to hit it too flat compared to his heyday and make many more errors in long rallies. Maybe he hits flatter because he doesn’t seem to be able to hit as hard as he used with a lot of topspin anymore like he did five or six years ago. Time will tell if he can hang from the baseline and win a majority of the long rallies against other top players in the next couple of years. I don’t see S/V tennis as a viable long-term strategy that works great for him outside of a low-bouncing surface like grass.

Nadal won 51 out of 66 points that he came to net against Medvedev in the 2019USO final, but that was just a 1-match tactic and he didn’t suddenly become a net rusher. As his baseline game has slowly declined, he is suffering more tough losses. It might happen to Djokovic also unless he finds his BH mojo again. It is also interesting that Nadal and Djokovic felt like they needed to come to the net a lot to beat Medvedev in big matches and they don’t feel like they can outlast him from the baseline - a sign that there are many Slams in store for Daniil in the future.
 
Last edited:

itrium84

Hall of Fame
S/V works better in this poly era when it is a surprise and used against returners who stand far back. Next time, Medvedev will be prepared for it as will other Djokovic opponents. On the other hand, coming to the net often to end points off good approaches is a viable tactic that should still work for Djokovic in the future. If he uses S/V enough to make guys like Medvedev, Nadal and Thiem abandon their deep return position, it will still be a positive as he is making them adjust to him rather than the other way around.

What is more concerning to me is that he lost most of the BH-BH rallies against Medvedev in both the USO final and at Bercy. He didn’t fare that well against Zverev at both the AO and USO on BH-BH rallies either. The GOAT BH that he used to have is no more and he seems to hit it too flat compared to his heyday and make many more errors in long rallies. Maybe he hits flatter because he doesn’t seem to be able to hit as hard as he used with a lot of topspin anymore like he did five or six years ago. Time will tell if he can hang from the baseline and win a majority of the long rallies against other top players in the next couple of years. I don’t see S/V tennis as a viable long-term strategy that works great for him outside of a low-bouncing surface like grass.

Nadal won 51 out of 66 points that he came to net against Medvedev in the 2019USO final, but that was just a 1-match tactic and he didn’t suddenly become a net rusher. As his baseline game has slowly declined, he is suffering more tough losses. It might happen to Djokovic also unless he finds his BH mojo again. It is also interesting that Nadal and Djokovic felt like they needed to come to the net a lot to beat Medvedev in big matches and they don’t feel like they can outlast him from the baseline - a sign that there are many Slams in store for Daniil in the future.
Great analysis, thank you.
 

mehdimike

Hall of Fame
Just imagine peak Nadal had been on the other side of the net yesterday. Just God knows how many passes we could have seen. It might work against Daniil but not against Rafa OR Novak himself who are amazing passers.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Pretty sure Nadal fans said the S&V tactic was reborn after Nadal beat Medvedev at the 2019 USO, and yet here we are celebrating the rebirth of a tactic that apparently was reborn two years ago, and before that 2014-2015 with Federer.

Nadal didn't serve and volley too much though if i remember correctly
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Nadal didn't serve and volley too much though if i remember correctly

Actually he had no choice but to serve and volley more, because the biggest problem for Nadal was being exploited after he threw in a massive choke and basically allowed what should have been a routine three set win over an out of sorts Medvedev into a battle....his stamina and endurance issues. The same problem that Djokovic has exploited, and even Tsitsipas at AO this year, is that Nadal now struggles when matches enter the fourth set. In USO, he had to come to net to stop the more inexperienced Medvedev, who had started to find his timing and form thanks to Nadal's choke, and it got him over the finish line. This is another reason why I think Nadal's chances at slams, are low now, competition is much tougher on HC for sure, and Nadal cannot go five anymore, and really it was the same thing that vanquished him in Paris and put him on the shelf for the rest of this season after Novak was finished with him in RG.

I actually think that possibly Wimbledon is where Nadal could stand his best chance to try to squeeze another win out, especially if he doesn't run into Novak.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
Now the question is... is he among the best s&v players ever? Is it even a discussion? Doing that in poly era, against a mad lad, is he the volley goat too?
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Now the question is... is he among the best s&v players ever? Is it even a discussion? Doing that in poly era, against a mad lad, is he the volley goat too?

Now. lets not get carried away here. It doesn't come naturally to him, but he has done a great job to add into his game, just makes him that much more harder to beat.

This was a classic case of youth being beaten by wisdom and experience.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
Now. lets not get carried away here. It doesn't come naturally to him, but he has done a great job to add into his game, just makes him that much more harder to beat.

This was a classic case of youth being beaten by wisdom and experience.
I think itd be between mcenroe, edberg and him
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Just imagine peak Nadal had been on the other side of the net yesterday. Just God knows how many passes we could have seen. It might work against Daniil but not against Rafa OR Novak himself who are amazing passers.

While this is very true, why would Djokovic even use such a tactic to the same degree against Nadal, he knows exactly how to play him and expose his weakness from the back of the court, especially on HC. Medvedev doesn't play the same way, hence the tactic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NAS

NatF

Bionic Poster
I definitely think S&V was something the Djokovic camp discussed prior to this match, Medvedev's embarassing court positioning on return needed to be exposed. It will be interesting to see if he has the hands skills and timing to return closer to the baseline in future encounters.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed already employed it in 2014-2015, but of course his opponent was prime Djokovic, not Medvedev so it couldn't be reborn like now.

But that was old school s/v; a good first volley to establish yourself and add pressure - then put away.

Yesterday reminded more of Rafa; attack the net only when the opponent is 4 metres behind the baseline and hit a soft volley he can't reach.

Two totally different strategies, really. Djokovic would never play s/v against Federer or Murray or anyone who returns from inside the court, not 4 metres behind it :)

That said; brilliant stuff from Djokovic. I always love when players take advantage of a defensive court positioning.
 

mehdimike

Hall of Fame
While this is very true, why would Djokovic even use such a tactic to the same degree against Nadal, he knows exactly how to play him and expose his weakness from the back of the court, especially on HC. Medvedev doesn't play the same way, hence the tactic.
I was trying to say it was a logical choice by Novak and I addressed it after their USO match too that Daniil needs to work on this certain weakness. It was a needed strategy.
So
 

Goof

Professional
It was the right strategy yesterday. An homage to Rafa's serve and volley-driven victory over Med at USO19.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Just imagine peak Nadal had been on the other side of the net yesterday. Just God knows how many passes we could have seen. It might work against Daniil but not against Rafa OR Novak himself who are amazing passers.

Very hard to imagine tbh. You'd have to imagine Nadal peaking on indoor hard in the first place. Not something we saw too often.
 

spottishwood

Hall of Fame
It will certainly work against a player who doesn't take any advantages of polys and returns from the stands. I blame poly for killing S&V, more than the surfaces.
 

tudwell

G.O.A.T.
Now the question is... is he among the best s&v players ever? Is it even a discussion? Doing that in poly era, against a mad lad, is he the volley goat too?
Nah. Nadal was a perfect 100% on serve-and-volley points against the Wimbledon GOAT in the 2008 final. Greatest net performance of all time. He was an incredible 1 of 1!
 

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
This was really bad by medy. He didn’t adjust at all as the serve out wide followed by volley was killing him.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
Nah. Nadal was a perfect 100% on serve-and-volley points against the Wimbledon GOAT in the 2008 final. Greatest net performance of all time. He was an incredible 1 of 1!
True that, hard to beat, maybe djokovics volleys arent THAT effective, but they are so beautiful and technically sound that at least aesthetic wise hes goat of smoothie volleys
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
The bar is below the floor for good volleying lol :oops:

Novak can execute basically any strategy and his forecourt game is legitimately effective, not just competent, but still I wouldn’t say what he’s doing is a great volleying masterclass or anything.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
The bar is below the floor for good volleying lol :oops:

Novak can execute basically any strategy and his forecourt game is legitimately effective, not just competent, but still I wouldn’t say what he’s doing is a great volleying masterclass or anything.

The most impressive aspect was the wide serve on the deuce court that set up the play over and over again, Med had no counter.
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
The most impressive aspect was the wide serve on the deuce court that set up the play over and over again, Med had no counter.
Well the counter for that would be returning from in front of the mezzanine for a change, but of course this is a bridge too far for the NextGen.

I wonder if Djokovic will S&V vs Thiem and Nadal more often when he plays them next. Can think of a few big points in AO ‘20 and Wimby ‘18 when he went that way and they didn’t have the answer.
 

The Big Foe fan

Hall of Fame
Actually he had no choice but to serve and volley more, because the biggest problem for Nadal was being exploited after he threw in a massive choke and basically allowed what should have been a routine three set win over an out of sorts Medvedev into a battle....his stamina and endurance issues. The same problem that Djokovic has exploited, and even Tsitsipas at AO this year, is that Nadal now struggles when matches enter the fourth set. In USO, he had to come to net to stop the more inexperienced Medvedev, who had started to find his timing and form thanks to Nadal's choke, and it got him over the finish line. This is another reason why I think Nadal's chances at slams, are low now, competition is much tougher on HC for sure, and Nadal cannot go five anymore, and really it was the same thing that vanquished him in Paris and put him on the shelf for the rest of this season after Novak was finished with him in RG.

I actually think that possibly Wimbledon is where Nadal could stand his best chance to try to squeeze another win out, especially if he doesn't run into Novak.
Past 2 hour mark Nadal is as good as a toast
 
Top