Djokovic to reach 500 weeks at No. 1

T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
In celebration of Djokovic's 20 slams and to change the discussion a bit, I offer the following. I have never made an outlandish prediction, but I am predicting Djokovic reaches 500 weeks at No. 1 assuming he plays for several years and does not have a major injury.

Unlike a lot of people here, I think that the weeks at No. 1 is a big deal. Sure, holding it for one week is not a big deal, but having hundreds of weeks is a big deal and after slams the second most important measure to me of overall greatness because it shows consistency, all-court quality play, and ability to rise to the heights to win Slams and Masters 1000s.

The biggest reason beyond his own personal drive that he has a real shot at 500 weeks is that there are many good ATP players who split points allowing Djokovic to continue to hold onto No. 1. I do think these great players on any given day can beat anyone. Thus, I do not subscribe to the weak era arguments which are sort of irrelevant anyway given that the weeks at No. 1 are spread out over more than 12 years.

Main Threats:

Nadal- The last to hold No. 1 before Djokovic, but is unlikely to play often enough or do well enough on non-clay tournaments to take over No. 1 for much more than a few weeks.

Tsitsipas- Probably the biggest overall threat since he seems to have mastered hardcourt and clay, but continues to have issues with grass.

Medvedev- Showed surprising deeper runs at RG and Wimbledon, but hardcourt is where he shines. Since there are more hardcourts than other tournaments, this gives him an advantage.

Berritini- Has gotten to two SFs on two different surfaces since 2019 and was at the QF at RG, so he can win on all three surfaces. He will have to be more consistent in the future.

Thiem- Has fallen a lot recently, but I expect him to come back once he is healthy to challenged and to win a lot of ATP points. I am expecting him to come back strong in 2022.

Lesser Threats:

Zverev- I put him a little lower though he has won several Masters 1,000s tournaments. I just don’t think he is consistent enough to win enough points to be a threat.

Shapopolov- Had a nice Wimbledon run, but needs to develop more wins at other slams.

Rublev, Felix Auger Aliassime, Sinner, Karatsev, and others are very unlikely to ever be No. 1, but can steal points from other players that keeps them from overtaking Djokovic.
 
Harry_Wild

Harry_Wild

G.O.A.T.
djokovic_full_ao19.png

#1
 
H

Hyde

Rookie
I think it is unrealistic because Djokovic focuses more and more an slams and plays less tournaments. Even at this moment with winning 3 slams in a row, Djokovic is just less than 2.000 points in front of Medvedev, who won zero slams and reached just one slam final.

So if there is a year when Djokovic wins just one slam (or even two) combined with playing very few tournaments, it will be hard for him to hold the #1 spot.
I think he can reach 400-450 weeks at #1.
 
Fiero425

Fiero425

Legend
Hyde said:
I think it is unrealistic because Djokovic focuses more and more an slams and plays less tournaments. Even at this moment with winning 3 slams in a row, Djokovic is just less than 2.000 points in front of Medvedev, who won zero slams and reached just one slam final.

So if there is a year when Djokovic wins just one slam (or even two) combined with playing very few tournaments, it will be hard for him to hold the #1 spot.
I think he can reach 400-450 weeks at #1.
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Nole's reign is already in jeapardy! Even though he's won 3 Majors, like 2016 with 2 Majors and 4 Masters, he still wound up 2nd behind Murray who played so many 500 events, he not only caught up to Nole, but put his own career in jeapardy when he began to break down! Djokovic is just 2000+ points ahead of Medvedev who still has a chance to steal YE #1! It's BS, but that's how it works even with the Big 3 in charge of the tour! :unsure:
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
Thanks for the comments.

His coaches have said he would play only 2-3 tournaments fewer than normal and if he continues to go deep into slams and wins a Masters 1000 or two then he will be right there.

Again, the biggest reason I say this is that there seems to be about 4-6 younger players who are likely to split the total points so the No. 1 player on a given week will probably be a lower number than in the past.

With this win Djokovic is almost guaranteed to have No. 1 throughout the year (Medvedev is defending a huge number of points until the end of the year), and he will probably have number 1 until at least the FO or next year's Wimbledon which is like 375 weeks or so. So really all I am talking about is I think he can win (some might say 'vulture') another 120 weeks or so to reach 500 and not necessarily in a row.

For him not to at least to have a realistic chance at this, one of the younger players will have to separate himself from the pack and start winning slams, something no one other than Nadal or Djokovic have done for several years when 2 or 3 of the Big 3 are in the tournament till the end.
 
BGod

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Given results and scheduling, it's possible he routinely skips the Sunshine Double and USO series. Giving him 2 of 3 Clay Masters and Shanghai, Paris. The big elephant in the room should be how he plays the WTF with its glorious abundance of points to end the year.

But in a few weeks we should get the news about AO. If he is indeed skipping that I'm sure he will focus on the WTF to gain on points from his SF last season. He is already essentially guaranteed to keep the #1 rank until after the French Open (Medvedev could feasibly take it from him prior but unlikely).

The margin with Med is currently 3,300. Novak currently is to defend 400 at WTF, 2000 at AO and 600 points from Rome which is a total 3,000.

Medvedev is defending 1,500 at WTF, 1,200 at AO and 270 with Sunshine Double (meager numbers elsewhere). I cannot exactly figure out how many points Medvedev is defending for the ATP Cup but he was undefeated which would be 500 but points differ on opponent's rank so.....over 350 at least? Novak won both his group stage matches but there is at least some margin for Med that he can't really gain points but he can lose to Novak.

Now IF Daniil went 5-0 at the WTF and Novak didn't gain on his 400 and kept the 3,300 margin then after the AO the best case scenario for Med would be 2800 and thus "only" 500 behind. He then theoretically can gain 910 by winning IW but in such a scenario he'd be on an incredible 6 tournament run (4W,1F,1S) before IW. This also supposes Novak wouldn't play the Sunshine Double despite sitting out AO and possibly ATP Cup, which I find less likely. Then we move on to Miami and the Clay Masters. Once we get into Clay, Daniil is defending hardly anything before the French while Novak has the 600 from Rome.

Obviously the AO reversal with a possible 2800 point swing is the biggest opportunity for Medvedev but it's asking a lot and even still Novak could essentially compensate for that by winning the WTF at 1300 or 1500 points with Medvedev losing at least 500 if not 900. Suppose we're being conservative and Novak gets 1300 (+900) and Med loses again in the Final but going undefeated in RR (-500) that extends Novak's margin to 4,700 meaning the worst case scenario after AO is then 1,900 again not exactly tabulating ATP Cup points into this but the margin would be well over 1,000 regardless. Medvedev then needs to accomplish the Sunshine Double where he doesn't even have a SF appearance.

Skipping 2022 AO might actually work in Novak's favour for ranking points because it could force him to play more Masters tournaments before (seemingly) returning to AO in 2023 and gaining substantial points there. Course I'm looking more at Novak's consecutive streak as he's 167 away from beating Fed's improbable number.
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Texas Tennis Fan said:
In celebration of Djokovic's 20 slams and to change the discussion a bit, I offer the following. I have never made an outlandish prediction, but I am predicting Djokovic reaches 500 weeks at No. 1 assuming he plays for several years and does not have a major injury.

Unlike a lot of people here, I think that the weeks at No. 1 is a big deal. Sure, holding it for one week is not a big deal, but having hundreds of weeks is a big deal and after slams the second most important measure to me of overall greatness because it shows consistency, all-court quality play, and ability to rise to the heights to win Slams and Masters 1000s.

The biggest reason beyond his own personal drive that he has a real shot at 500 weeks is that there are many good ATP players who split points allowing Djokovic to continue to hold onto No. 1. I do think these great players on any given day can beat anyone. Thus, I do not subscribe to the weak era arguments which are sort of irrelevant anyway given that the weeks at No. 1 are spread out over more than 12 years.

Main Threats:

Nadal- The last to hold No. 1 before Djokovic, but is unlikely to play often enough or do well enough on non-clay tournaments to take over No. 1 for much more than a few weeks.

Tsitsipas- Probably the biggest overall threat since he seems to have mastered hardcourt and clay, but continues to have issues with grass.

Medvedev- Showed surprising deeper runs at RG and Wimbledon, but hardcourt is where he shines. Since there are more hardcourts than other tournaments, this gives him an advantage.

Berritini- Has gotten to two SFs on two different surfaces since 2019 and was at the QF at RG, so he can win on all three surfaces. He will have to be more consistent in the future.

Thiem- Has fallen a lot recently, but I expect him to come back once he is healthy to challenged and to win a lot of ATP points. I am expecting him to come back strong in 2022.

Lesser Threats:

Zverev- I put him a little lower though he has won several Masters 1,000s tournaments. I just don’t think he is consistent enough to win enough points to be a threat.

Shapopolov- Had a nice Wimbledon run, but needs to develop more wins at other slams.

Rublev, Felix Auger Aliassime, Sinner, Karatsev, and others are very unlikely to ever be No. 1, but can steal points from other players that keeps them from overtaking Djokovic.
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Your post is using some sort of opposite logic.

"there are many good ATP players who split points" - none of the players is good enough to win big consistently = weak field.

"I do think these great players on any given day can beat anyone. Thus, I do not subscribe to the weak era arguments which are sort of irrelevant anyway given that the weeks at No. 1 are spread out over more than 12 years." - 10 or 12 years ago the era wasn't weak, but the last few years are, if we take those few years out there would not be that many weeks at number one.
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
Not sure what you are saying, but disagree that lots of players splitting points means weak field; it might mean that there are a lot of strong players who are at a similar level who then split points.

I am not nearly as optimistic that Djokovic can make to 500 weeks as I was when I originally posted this. This is for 2 reasons. First, Medvedev has really separated himself from the rest of the field so that barring injury, it seems most likely that Djokovic and Medvedev will be the main contenders for YE No. 1 next year. How well Nadal plays at RG and the preceding clay tournaments and how well Thiem can come back can also make a difference. The second reason is that after the USO loss, Djokovic made a comment at the press conference suggesting that he thought that Medvedev had taken over No. 1 with the win. This showed to me that he really doesn't care that much about the weeks now, though he did clearly care about YE No. 1 with is related.

My hope is that his kids want to travel the world and watch Daddy play and so he will get in about 14-15 tournaments a year. But time will tell. I will be shocked if he does not go to the AO since he already lost the opportunity to win the 2020 Wimbledon and USO.

I do still think he will get to 380-400 weeks at least in the next year with maybe some weeks at No. 1 for Medvedev interspersed here and there.
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Texas Tennis Fan said:
Not sure what you are saying, but disagree that lots of players splitting points means weak field; it might mean that there are a lot of strong players who are at a similar level who then split points.

I am not nearly as optimistic that Djokovic can make to 500 weeks as I was when I originally posted this. This is for 2 reasons. First, Medvedev has really separated himself from the rest of the field so that barring injury, it seems most likely that Djokovic and Medvedev will be the main contenders for YE No. 1 next year. How well Nadal plays at RG and the preceding clay tournaments and how well Thiem can come back can also make a difference. The second reason is that after the USO loss, Djokovic made a comment at the press conference suggesting that he thought that Medvedev had taken over No. 1 with the win. This showed to me that he really doesn't care that much about the weeks now, though he did clearly care about YE No. 1 with is related.

My hope is that his kids want to travel the world and watch Daddy play and so he will get in about 14-15 tournaments a year. But time will tell. I will be shocked if he does not go to the AO since he already lost the opportunity to win the 2020 Wimbledon and USO.

I do still think he will get to 380-400 weeks at least in the next year with maybe some weeks at No. 1 for Medvedev interspersed here and there.
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If they are all strong and similar level, how come they don't take turns at the number one position?
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
There hasn't been a single top level match played steadily in slams this year. None since 2020 AO if memory serves me well. Tells us...
 
Fiero425

Fiero425

Legend
Texas Tennis Fan said:
Not sure what you are saying, but disagree that lots of players splitting points means weak field; it might mean that there are a lot of strong players who are at a similar level who then split points.

I am not nearly as optimistic that Djokovic can make to 500 weeks as I was when I originally posted this. This is for 2 reasons. First, Medvedev has really separated himself from the rest of the field so that barring injury, it seems most likely that Djokovic and Medvedev will be the main contenders for YE No. 1 next year. How well Nadal plays at RG and the preceding clay tournaments and how well Thiem can come back can also make a difference. The second reason is that after the USO loss, Djokovic made a comment at the press conference suggesting that he thought that Medvedev had taken over No. 1 with the win. This showed to me that he really doesn't care that much about the weeks now, though he did clearly care about YE No. 1 with is related.

My hope is that his kids want to travel the world and watch Daddy play and so he will get in about 14-15 tournaments a year. But time will tell. I will be shocked if he does not go to the AO since he already lost the opportunity to win the 2020 Wimbledon and USO.

I do still think he will get to 380-400 weeks at least in the next year with maybe some weeks at No. 1 for Medvedev interspersed here and there.
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Dream on; SORRY! This is about as much as we're gonna see of Djokovic I'm afraid to say! I doubt he'll go out of his way to hold the #1 ranking after this year! Majors are his last "must have" which will set him apart from Fedal! He's already accumulated all the other meaningful records including the Double CGS, a Nole-Slam, 2 Golden Masters, 37 Masters 1000 Chps., won 9 AO (3 str. twice, '11-13 & '19-21), and now 7 YE #1's OTTH! Nole can only add to these numbers as he did a couple days ago in Paris! :cautious: ;):unsure:
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
skaj said:
If they are all strong and similar level, how come they don't take turns at the number one position?
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Simple. Because the weeks at No. 1 is calculated across all surfaces and for 52 weeks. Tsitsipas I better on clay, Medvedev on hard court, Berrettini on grass, but Djokovic is excellent on all surfaces. He would probably have 5 or more RG wins if the greatest clay courter of all time had not played at the same time as he did. It is not that each of these other players in baad on other surfaces; Medvedev raises his clay court play quite a bit this year. It is just that they split points which allows Djokovic to remain at the top.
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
Fiero425 said:
Dream on; SORRY! This is about as much as we're gonna see of Djokovic I'm afraid to say! I doubt he'll go out of his way to hold the #1 ranking after this year! Majors are his last "must have" which will set him apart from Fedal! He's already accumulated all the other meaningful records including the Double CGS, a Nole-Slam, 2 Golden Masters, 37 Masters 1000 Chps., won 9 AO (3 str. twice, '11-13 & '19-21), and now 7 YE #1's OTTH! Nole can only add to these numbers as he did a couple days ago in Paris! :cautious: ;):unsure:
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You may be correct. What has been lost in the Big Three Goat debate is that these guys have driven each other. If Djokovic wins a couple of slams next year, even his drive may decrease since he will even more thoroughly have cemented the GOAT debate. That is not what he says, but what he says and can muster up may differ.
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Texas Tennis Fan said:
Simple. Because the weeks at No. 1 is calculated across all surfaces and for 52 weeks. Tsitsipas I better on clay, Medvedev on hard court, Berrettini on grass, but Djokovic is excellent on all surfaces. He would probably have 5 or more RG wins if the greatest clay courter of all time had not played at the same time as he did. It is not that each of these other players in baad on other surfaces; Medvedev raises his clay court play quite a bit this year. It is just that they split points which allows Djokovic to remain at the top.
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That means exactly(post#12) what I have said already - none of them is good enough = weak field.
 
Fiero425

Fiero425

Legend
Texas Tennis Fan said:
You may be correct. What has been lost in the Big Three Goat debate is that these guys have driven each other. If Djokovic wins a couple of slams next year, even his drive may decrease since he will even more thoroughly have cemented the GOAT debate. That is not what he says, but what he says and can muster up may differ.
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Novak might be treating Medevdev as Navratilova did with Graf; her last major rival before retirement! Nole only has 2 choices; use Med-threat to drive him for a little bit longer or lose interest after winning a couple majors next season! Heaven knows Sampras lost his competitive spirit after winning Wimbeldon in 2000 over Rafter! He went over 2 years without a single win before stealing that last USO over Agassi in 2002! Novak has the chance to pad his numbers without Fedal to contend with as much with the NG'rs out there pretty weak-minded and unable to finish him off! :giggle: :rolleyes: ;):-D:happydevil:
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
skaj said:
That means exactly(post#12) what I have said already - none of them is good enough = weak field.
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I'd suggest you take a course in logic. Yes, it could be weak field or it could be a very strong field where they all were close in level and so split points. Do I think they are as good as the Big 3 at their best? Of course not. But neither is any other age.
 
The Big Foe fan

The Big Foe fan

Hall of Fame
Texas Tennis Fan said:
In celebration of Djokovic's 20 slams and to change the discussion a bit, I offer the following. I have never made an outlandish prediction, but I am predicting Djokovic reaches 500 weeks at No. 1 assuming he plays for several years and does not have a major injury.

Unlike a lot of people here, I think that the weeks at No. 1 is a big deal. Sure, holding it for one week is not a big deal, but having hundreds of weeks is a big deal and after slams the second most important measure to me of overall greatness because it shows consistency, all-court quality play, and ability to rise to the heights to win Slams and Masters 1000s.

The biggest reason beyond his own personal drive that he has a real shot at 500 weeks is that there are many good ATP players who split points allowing Djokovic to continue to hold onto No. 1. I do think these great players on any given day can beat anyone. Thus, I do not subscribe to the weak era arguments which are sort of irrelevant anyway given that the weeks at No. 1 are spread out over more than 12 years.

Main Threats:

Nadal- The last to hold No. 1 before Djokovic, but is unlikely to play often enough or do well enough on non-clay tournaments to take over No. 1 for much more than a few weeks.

Tsitsipas- Probably the biggest overall threat since he seems to have mastered hardcourt and clay, but continues to have issues with grass.

Medvedev- Showed surprising deeper runs at RG and Wimbledon, but hardcourt is where he shines. Since there are more hardcourts than other tournaments, this gives him an advantage.

Berritini- Has gotten to two SFs on two different surfaces since 2019 and was at the QF at RG, so he can win on all three surfaces. He will have to be more consistent in the future.

Thiem- Has fallen a lot recently, but I expect him to come back once he is healthy to challenged and to win a lot of ATP points. I am expecting him to come back strong in 2022.

Lesser Threats:

Zverev- I put him a little lower though he has won several Masters 1,000s tournaments. I just don’t think he is consistent enough to win enough points to be a threat.

Shapopolov- Had a nice Wimbledon run, but needs to develop more wins at other slams.

Rublev, Felix Auger Aliassime, Sinner, Karatsev, and others are very unlikely to ever be No. 1, but can steal points from other players that keeps them from overtaking Djokovic.
Click to expand...
In this vacuum of potent young competition since 2015, I wouldn't be surprised if nole is World no.1 by the time 2023 ends.
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
skaj said:
If they are all strong and similar level, how come they don't take turns at the number one position?
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Sorry I missed this post. Because Djokovic, overall across the entire year is stronger. Both Medvedev and early Tsitsipas were threatening at least 2021 numbers before faltering. There is a good chance that what you suggest will happen next year that Djokovic and Medvedev will have some time at No. 1. I was disappointed to see Thiem and Nadal have injuries both for them and because I think it benefits Djokovic to have more strong players at the top.
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
The Big Foe fan said:
In this vacuum of potent young competition since 2015, I wouldn't be surprised if nole is World no.1 by the time 2023 ends.
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I think the younger generation has been a bit spoiled by living in the era of the Big 3 (I am 66 years young and have played and watched tennis since 1970). This is not the normal and especially for such a long time going on for 15 years. Just because it is no longer the Big 3, but only Big 1 or Big 2, doesn't mean the younger players are bad. I think it means Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer were that good.
 
The Big Foe fan

The Big Foe fan

Hall of Fame
Texas Tennis Fan said:
I think the younger generation has been a bit spoiled by living in the era of the Big 3 (I am 66 years young and have played and watched tennis since 1970). This is not the normal and especially for such a long time going on for 15 years. Just because it is no longer the Big 3, but only Big 1 or Big 2, doesn't mean the younger players are bad. I think it means Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer were that good.
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Its not all about big3
Not a single non big3+mury young player has reached all 4 slam QFs in a season in God knows how many years.
They're all so bad, 2 successive young generations failed to step up
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Texas Tennis Fan said:
I'd suggest you take a course in logic. Yes, it could be weak field or it could be a very strong field where they all were close in level and so split points. Do I think they are as good as the Big 3 at their best? Of course not. But neither is any other age.
Click to expand...

You should suggest yourself that course, since you have some problems with logic, as it was suggested in my first reply post here.

It cannot be a very strong field where they are all on a very similar level - because in that case they would take turns at number one.

Age can not be "as good as Big 3 at their best". Players can. Players can also be great, very strong. In some era there were great players playing at the same time. At this moment there aren't.
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Texas Tennis Fan said:
Sorry I missed this post. Because Djokovic, overall across the entire year is stronger. Both Medvedev and early Tsitsipas were threatening at least 2021 numbers before faltering. There is a good chance that what you suggest will happen next year that Djokovic and Medvedev will have some time at No. 1. I was disappointed to see Thiem and Nadal have injuries both for them and because I think it benefits Djokovic to have more strong players at the top.
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That's the whole point, Jesus. That's what this discussion is about, Djokovic and why he is able collect all these weeks at number one - because the rest of the field is weak. That is what I am suggesting, or rather saying.

As for what will happen in the future, and that Djokovic will lose his number one spot - of course he will, even if the field gets even worse, because of biology, he cannot play at this level forever.
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
skaj said:
You should suggest yourself that course, since you have some problems with logic, as it was suggested in my first reply post here.

It cannot be a very strong field where they are all on a very similar level - because in that case they would take turns at number one.

Age can not be "as good as Big 3 at their best". Players can. Players can also be great, very strong. In some era there were great players playing at the same time. At this moment there aren't.
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Pure opinion; the results that we have could mean many things including that right now is as weak as tennis has every been or it is the strongest it has ever been and maybe Djokovic is the greatest ever. All you are doing is spouting opinions with nothing to back it up. And by the way, my logic is fine as I have a masters in philosophy and use to teach at a top 50 University in the world. However, please point out what error you think I made; maybe I misunderstood your point.
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
skaj said:
That's the whole point, Jesus. That's what this discussion is about, Djokovic and why he is able collect all these weeks at number one - because the rest of the field is weak. That is what I am suggesting, or rather saying.

As for what will happen in the future, and that Djokovic will lose his number one spot - of course he will, even if the field gets even worse, because of biology, he cannot play at this level forever.
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Again, you are making an assertion without any evidence other than he is the No 1 so it must be weak. Maybe he is just the best even now in a strong field. Make an argument please instead of simple assertions.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
This is an epic prediction worthy of Srdjan-level chutzpah. Most of his fans feel like they are sticking their neck out with an outrageous prediction when they forecast 400 weeks at #1.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Tshooter said:
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Great movie. I stole this clip for another thread.

The clip below encapsulates the psychedelic, great ‘bad trip’ the whole movie was and maybe the next three years will be similar in impact on Federer fans if Djokovic comes anywhere close to the OP’s prediction.

 
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T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
nachiket nolefam said:
If Djokovic is no longer world no. 1 even then he would have 50 more weeks than Federer.
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Federer spent a record 237 consecutive weeks at world No. 1
Connors is a distant second at 160

Most Consecutive Weeks at ATP No. 1
1. Federer - 237
2. Connors - 160
3. Lendl - 157
4. Djokovic - 122
5. Sampras - 102
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
Ah hell nah

I could much more easily accept a case for 25 Slams than 500 weeks. Reasoning is the dude has 7,200 points to defend at Slams next year. He’s got to win at least 1 to have any shot of keeping #1, unless he goes crazy in Masters which doesn’t seem at all like a 34 year old strategy.

And isnt it much more likely that you’d see him peak for slams anyways? This makes a vulture job of Wimby/USO at age 36 when out of the top spot a more reasonable proposition than actually being #1 in 2023.

All that said I would sooner bet he doesn’t win any more Slams than bet he wins 5 more.
 
A

adil1972

Hall of Fame
djok to reach 1,000 weeks as No. 1

tennis jokes anyone

LOL

life is so boring with out fed / nadal
 
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D

Deleted member 770948

Guest
And it will all count for nothing because Nadal will finish with more slams than Djokovic.
 
S

Saula

Rookie
NADALalot said:
And it will all count for nothing because Nadal will finish with more slams than Djokovic.
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You must have a crystal ball to be so sure in that , after the 2018 French Open Nadal had 17 slams and Novak 12 , and now it's 20 - 20 . Since Wimbledon 2018 Novak won 8 slams compared to Nadal's 3 , is there any reason why you favor Nadal's chances over Novak's ? You think because Novak lost to Medvedev at the USO that he is finished despite winning 3 slams in 2021 ? Nadal can't seem to keep his body together after the French Open because he overplays on clay especially at 35/36 when that is not advisable . Novak is 1 year younger and has less mileage on his body . What scenario you think is going to happen ? You think Nadal will just casually win FO for the next few years and nab a USO or 2 ? He lost to Novak this year at the FO and went slamless the entire year while Novak won 3 , and you think because he lost to Medvedev in 1 final that he is done and the next gen will deny him all the time , i doubt that i really do . I don't think Novak is having another 3 slam year but 1-2 seems realistic to me considering he is the best player in the world .
Not saying it is impossible for Nadal to end up with more but not likely if we are being realistic .
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Texas Tennis Fan said:
Pure opinion; the results that we have could mean many things including that right now is as weak as tennis has every been or it is the strongest it has ever been and maybe Djokovic is the greatest ever. All you are doing is spouting opinions with nothing to back it up. And by the way, my logic is fine as I have a masters in philosophy and use to teach at a top 50 University in the world. However, please point out what error you think I made; maybe I misunderstood your point.
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Opinion? And what else would it be here? What you posted is not an opinion but facts?
Nothing to back it up? (You have backed yours up perhaps?)

I didn't even get to "backing up" because: 1) everyone who follows tennis and is rational knows how low the quality of the "Next Gen" is, so it's unnecessary to mention that 2) I was merely responding to your posts and the poor logic behind it.
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
Texas Tennis Fan said:
Again, you are making an assertion without any evidence other than he is the No 1 so it must be weak. Maybe he is just the best even now in a strong field. Make an argument please instead of simple assertions.
Click to expand...

Again, you are suggesting that only I am giving opinions/assertions, and that others(yourself I guess...) are giving "evidence". We are all giving opinions, the difference is I am giving arguments for mine, you are not.

The point that you keep missing is why was he not continuously dominating like he is today, when Federer, Nadal, Murray were in their prime.

Maybe you think that "the Next Gen" are better than the rest of "the Big 4", since you wrote that "maybe he is just the best even now in a strong field." In that case, I have nothing to add...
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
skaj said:
Again, you are suggesting that only I am giving opinions/assertions, and that others(yourself I guess...) are giving "evidence". We are all giving opinions, the difference is I am giving arguments for mine, you are not.

The point that you keep missing is why was he not continuously dominating like he is today, when Federer, Nadal, Murray were in their prime.

Maybe you think that "the Next Gen" are better than the rest of "the Big 4", since you wrote that "maybe he is just the best even now in a strong field." In that case, I have nothing to add...
Click to expand...
I just said that is a logical possibility. I think it is a moderate field, stronger than what Federer faced when he got 5 years in a row as No. 1. My argument is that you just have to look at the objective measures such as slam numbers, Masters, YE championships, OG, win rate against top 10, h2h against other top players, years at No. 1, and so on.

This whole argument you and I are having and others on the GOAT debate can only look at those things rather than what is usually said which is opinion. Opinion can be right or wrong, but it is still opinion. After the 2020 FO all we heard is 20>17, no OG, etc. and now the arguments have focused down to mostly weak era. Even if that is true and I do agree it is weaker than say 2015, then it does not matter. The player can only win against who he plays. Federer won his first 10 slams against weak opponents. Nadal wins mostly on clay against a group that is much better on hardcourt. You can also say that Federer and Djokovic win Wimbledon against players who are not very good on grass. You can support that by their wins on grass v other surfaces (Medvedev, for example).

In any case, the only real evidence as oppose to opinion is actual results. Yes, players can be lucky in a draw or because a strong player is injured, but these things tend to even out in time.
 
T

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
Yes, he will have 353 on January 1, 2022, so he would need 3 straight years almost or if there are breaks then he would need longer.

I am less optimistic about this and give it only a 5-10% chance of happening because Medvedev has separated himself so that he is a clear No. 2 vying for No. 1 and I was hoping several players would all be about the same in point total (like Tsitsipas and Zverev who are currently tied). Djokovic also does not seem to be paying much attention to this either.
 
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