The Nadal abdominal injury will permanently reduce the effectiveness of his serve?

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"He's far more limited it seems," the American great said on Nine's coverage.
"It doesn't seem like he can arch back with his abdominal and reach back for the ball over his shoulder. As he's serving, everything is moving out to his left side.
"I just don't know if he can use the abdominal to reach back up there. He's also hitting it at a lower contact hit point, not as high, that makes it harder to be accurate.
"It's something that we watched in the US summer when he came to play in Cincinnati and the US Open.
"He was suffering from that and we thought it might've been a temporary situation, (but) it does not appear to be the case. It has not resolved in that time, which was about four months ago.
"It would seem to us that would not be a choice that he would willingly make. That is an accommodation for the injury he sustained at Wimbledon I would have to assume."

Henman was also in agreement with Courier and explained how Nadal's new ball toss was hampering his flexibility on certain points.
"It's really taking out the kick serve, the top spin on the second serve, because you've got to get up the back of the ball, and to do that you need to arch your back," he said.
"If your ball toss is a little bit further in front, then you're only coming around the side of the ball.
"It means you can only hit a slice serve and that limits where Rafa's really going to be able to hit into the box."

Former English pro Mark Petchey also noticed the slight change while sitting courtside during Nadal's clash against de Minaur.
"The predictability is one thing, but it's obvious to see that he's not trying to serve at the body, because that's been his pattern over the last couple of years on second serves," he said.
"The other thing from that graphic is how far forward it (the ball) is. That affects your plus-one shot.
"He's a lot further inside the baseline, he's a little rushed on his plus-one after his serve because of how far forward the ball is."

United Cup Tennis 2023: Rafael Nadal injury concerns made after Alex de Minaur loss, Australian Open news (nine.com.au)
 
AO13

AO13

Hall of Fame
How are you doing my man? Don't worry, 6 defeats on last 7 matches doesn't mean anything for first Grand Slam of the season. He's still big favorite for reaching a semi final.
 
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Deleted member 629564

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Yes, Nadal will be affected.
He will win AO dropping six sets on route instead of four.
 
The Fedfather

The Fedfather

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It would be weird if he still physically struggled with the remnants of that injury but kept playing all these mini events. And I think abdominal tears when healed don't limit mobility. So it could be a learned pattern from the time when he was recovering from the injury and adjusting accordingly, and it stuck for whatever reason.

Nadal really should've prioritised his serve more overall. Hard to believe that his innate ability in this department is THAT much worse compared to the elite servers of about the same height.
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
OP 3 months ago:
thepaint19 said:
This is a gigantic mismatch, probably the most lopsided match-up Tiafoe will ever see.
Even with Nadal's serve compromised, I don't see Tiafoe winning a set.

Nadal's serve average:
1st Round = 114mph 1st Serve, 98mph 2nd Serve
2nd Round = 112mph 1st Serve, 97mph 2nd Serve
3rd Round = 112mph 1st Serve, 99mph 2nd Serve
He wins slams with his serve at those speeds, and even in 2010 when his 1st Serve was 120mph during the first 6 rounds, his 1st Serve was only 116mph in the Final vs. Djokovic.

Accuracy is supposedly compromised, as expected with a lower ball toss.
And getting 60% of 1st Serves in, is acceptable, even if he expects 65+, its always been very common for him to get 60% in and win.
1st Round = 57% 1st Serves in, 2 double faults
2nd Round = 61% 1st Serves in, 2 double faults
3rd Round = 59% 1st Serves in, 8 double faults
Serving 12 double faults for 3 matches is perfectly acceptable :cool:
Click to expand...
 
jl809

jl809

Hall of Fame
It is completely baffling to me that he would rather lose in a load of HC tournaments while compromised than take even longer off to get this sorted more permanently. Then again he has done stupid **** with his body before so idk
 
topher

topher

Hall of Fame
Sudacafan said:
Wait. Djokovic had like a 10 inch abdominal tear not long ago, won a slam in the process, and he is doing fine now.
Click to expand...

The abdomen is a large area with multiple muscle groups. It would be silly to expect a tear in one location to have the exact same effect as another.
 
topher

topher

Hall of Fame
NoleFam said:
Courier is a Nadal fanboy and everytime he is losing lately, he keeps insinuating he must be injured. When he was getting beaten by Tommy Paul, he was doing it again in the commentating. He's annoying at this point and just leave the the favoritism and bias out of your commentating.
Click to expand...

You’d have to be delusional to not notice Courier is a Novak fanboy.

Rewatch the RG 2020 final, Courier sounded like he was commentating a funeral.
 
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ghostofMecir

ghostofMecir

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thepaint19 said:
zns9Ll6.jpg


"He's far more limited it seems," the American great said on Nine's coverage.
"It doesn't seem like he can arch back with his abdominal and reach back for the ball over his shoulder. As he's serving, everything is moving out to his left side.
"I just don't know if he can use the abdominal to reach back up there. He's also hitting it at a lower contact hit point, not as high, that makes it harder to be accurate.
"It's something that we watched in the US summer when he came to play in Cincinnati and the US Open.
"He was suffering from that and we thought it might've been a temporary situation, (but) it does not appear to be the case. It has not resolved in that time, which was about four months ago.
"It would seem to us that would not be a choice that he would willingly make. That is an accommodation for the injury he sustained at Wimbledon I would have to assume."

Henman was also in agreement with Courier and explained how Nadal's new ball toss was hampering his flexibility on certain points.
"It's really taking out the kick serve, the top spin on the second serve, because you've got to get up the back of the ball, and to do that you need to arch your back," he said.
"If your ball toss is a little bit further in front, then you're only coming around the side of the ball.
"It means you can only hit a slice serve and that limits where Rafa's really going to be able to hit into the box."

Former English pro Mark Petchey also noticed the slight change while sitting courtside during Nadal's clash against de Minaur.
"The predictability is one thing, but it's obvious to see that he's not trying to serve at the body, because that's been his pattern over the last couple of years on second serves," he said.
"The other thing from that graphic is how far forward it (the ball) is. That affects your plus-one shot.
"He's a lot further inside the baseline, he's a little rushed on his plus-one after his serve because of how far forward the ball is."

United Cup Tennis 2023: Rafael Nadal injury concerns made after Alex de Minaur loss, Australian Open news (nine.com.au)
Click to expand...

Yesterday you said he’s winning the AO and now a certain abdominal injury is hindering him forever? Is that correct? Also, he served bigger at the YEC than I have ever seen him. He’ll be fine. The game just evolves.
 
Rosstour

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
NoleFam said:
Courier is a Nadal fanboy and everytime he is losing lately, he keeps insinuating he must be injured. When he was getting beaten by Tommy Paul, he was doing it again in the commentating. He's annoying at this point and just leave the the favoritism and bias out of your commentating.
Click to expand...

It's really so ridiculous. He's killed his credibility. Did Rafa even say anything about the injury? Courier does it reflexively
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Maybe Nadal just sucks on fast hard courts - always has, always will. His topspin into the middle of the court doesn’t bother his opponents if the court is fast and low-bouncing. And he makes more errors when he tries to be precise and hit closer to the lines which then drains his confidence - has been a problem throughout his career. Sydney is a very fast, low bouncing court as was Bercy and Turin.

Is he serving with less spin because he doesn’t want his kick serve to sit up in the strike zone on a low bouncing court or because he is still feeling the after-effects of his abdominal injury? Who knows?
 
NeutralFan

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
socallefty said:
Maybe Nadal just sucks on fast hard courts - always has, always will. His topspin into the middle of the court doesn’t bother his opponents if the court is fast and low-bouncing. And he makes more errors when he tries to be precise and hit closer to the lines which then drains his confidence - has been a problem throughout his career. Sydney is a very fast, low bouncing court as was Bercy and Turin.

Is he serving with less spin because he doesn’t want his kick serve to sit up in the strike zone on a low bouncing court or because he is still feeling the after-effects of his abdominal injury? Who knows?
Click to expand...

Son, Don't confuse indoor with fast HC. Remember when Fed drummed Djokovic in Cincy ? Something Fed was not able to do that to Rafa on fast outdoor. HC.
 
The Fedfather

The Fedfather

Legend
Rosstour said:
It's really so ridiculous. He's killed his credibility. Did Rafa even say anything about the injury? Courier does it reflexively
Click to expand...
He's making an educated guess as a tennis commentator and a former pro that's familiar with the serve mechanics at that level. Along with the visual representation, it is interesting to hear a possible explanation for the change. I don't listen to Courier's commentary a lot so not aware of his biases, but taking a shot at Jim for these comments specifically is unreasonable.

You feel so affronted by the mention of injury, what would your guess be for why Rafa's contact point shifted like this?
 
Rosstour

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
The Fedfather said:
He's making an educated guess as a tennis commentator and a former pro that's familiar with the serve mechanics at that level. Along with the visual representation, it is interesting to hear a possible explanation for the change. I don't listen to Courier's commentary a lot so not aware of his biases, but taking a shot at Jim for these comments specifically is unreasonable.

You feel so affronted by the mention of injury, what would your guess be for why Rafa's contact point shifted like this?
Click to expand...

If you don't listen to his commentary a lot then why are you calling my number here? I watch a lot of matches he calls, and he will find a way to talk about Rafa's injuries even during other players' matches.

And if Nadal is actually playing in the match, Courier does his best to take all credit from that player, and will start writing injury stories for Nadal as soon as he thinks he sees something amiss. It's a joke
 
The Fedfather

The Fedfather

Legend
Rosstour said:
If you don't listen to his commentary a lot then why are you calling my number here? I watch a lot of matches he calls, and he will find a way to talk about Rafa's injuries even during other players' matches.

And if Nadal is actually playing in the match, Courier does his best to take all credit from that player, and will start writing injury stories for Nadal as soon as he thinks he sees something amiss. It's a joke
Click to expand...
Your comment was about the comments Courier made about Rafa's serve and how it could be related to his abdominal tear. So I said that it was unreasonable to have a go at him for those. You haven't offered an alternative reasoning for Rafa's serve changing. I wonder why, since you are indignant about Courier's not being true.
 
Rosstour

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
The Fedfather said:
Your comment was about the comments Courier made about Rafa's serve and how it could be related to his abdominal tear. So I said that it was unreasonable to have a go at him for those. You haven't offered an alternative reasoning for Rafa's serve changing. I wonder why, since you are indignant about Courier's not being true.
Click to expand...

Rafa is getting old. Lots of wear and tear. And if he didn't think he was fit to compete, he's not shy about missing time. Not everything is an acute injury.

Courier is the boy who cried wolf on someone else's behalf. It's got old now
 
F

Federer_pilon

Professional
The Fedfather said:
And I think abdominal tears when healed don't limit mobility.
Click to expand...

I think it's something to do with scar tissue reducing his flexibility?

"Scar tissue has less flexibility than muscle or fascia, leading to decreased mobility and flexibility."
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ffw2

ffw2

Hall of Fame
What's with the apologists in this thread...?

Ton of trickery. And it's a decades-long act at this point.

At least Courier's getting paid for it, eh?
 
Rosstour

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Courier has said he's a Rafa fan, he is respectful to Fed and Novak but Rafa is his guy.

I think he's even said this, but he kinda sees Rafa as a similar player to himself, a hard working grinder with a tough mental game
 
The Fedfather

The Fedfather

Legend
Rosstour said:
Rafa is getting old. Lots of wear and tear. And if he didn't think he was fit to compete, he's not shy about missing time. Not everything is an acute injury.

Courier is the boy who cried wolf on someone else's behalf. It's got old now
Click to expand...
And Courier didn't say it's an acute injury that's causing this, he said it's an accomodation for the injury sustained in the past. Like if you broke an arm, it healed, but you're still careful with putting a lot of stress on the bone.

Your explanation doesn't sound nearly as reasonable as Courier's. A general wear and tear is suddenly preventing Nadal from arching his back a bit more to reach further behind with his arm, but not the previous abdominal muscle injury?

Ironically, you are the one crying wolf. Oh no, the evil biased forces are again trying to excuse Nadal's losses/ take credit away from Nadal's opponents/ make Nadal the victim, whatever. Meanwhile it's just commentary analysing the changes in Nadal's serve and what the possible reasons for the changes might be.
 
Rosstour

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
The Fedfather said:
And Courier didn't say it's an acute injury that's causing this, he said it's an accomodation for the injury sustained in the past. Like if you broke an arm, it healed, but you're still careful with putting a lot of stress on the bone.

Your explanation doesn't sound nearly as reasonable as Courier's. A general wear and tear is suddenly preventing Nadal from arching his back a bit more to reach further behind with his arm, but not the previous abdominal muscle injury?

Ironically, you are the one crying wolf. Oh no, the evil biased forces are again trying to excuse Nadal's losses/ take credit away from Nadal's opponents/ make Nadal the victim, whatever. Meanwhile it's just commentary analysing the changes in Nadal's serve and what the possible reasons for the changes might be.
Click to expand...

"Suddenly"? This was an issue in most of 2022.

Funny you mention that about taking credit away. Courier does this all the time. I remember after a Nadal loss he once said "look, not to take anything away from what his opponent did" and then went right back to talking about the injury. Like, he barely even acknowledged the other (winning) player. To him it's always on Nadal's racquet and the only reason Rafa ever loses is injury.
 
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