Number of Surfaces Mastered by ATGs

Razer · Jul 31, 2023

Number of Surfaces Mastered by ATGs

Djokovic - 4 [ Outdoor HC, Grass, Clay & Indoor HC ]
Sampras - 4 [ Grass, Outdoor HC, Indoors HC & Carpets ]
Connors - 4 [ Outdoor HC, Grass, Indoor HC & Carpets ]
Lendl - 4 [ Clay, Outdoor HC, Indoor HC & Carpets ]
Mcenroe - 4 [ Outdoor HC, Grass, Indoor HC & Carpets]
Becker - 4 [ Grass, Outdoor HC, Indoor HC & Carpets ]

Federer - 3 [ Grass, Outdoor HC & Indoor HC ]
Nadal - 3 [ Clay, Grass and Outdoor HC ]
Borg - 3 [ Clay, Grass & Indoor Carpets ]
Edberg - 3 [ Grass, Outdoor HC & Indoor HC]
Agassi - 3 [ Outdoor HC, Indoor HC & Carpets ]

Wilander - 2 [ Clay & Outdoor HC ]

Courier - 1 [ Clay ]
Nastase - 1 [ Indoors ]
Murray - 1 [ Grass ]
Hewitt - 1 [ Indoors ]
Stich - 1 [ Indoors ]

At least 2 Slams on a single slam surface, 3 on a double slam surface, 2 WTF titles for Indoors is considered as a cut off for the list .....

Agassi is slightly overrated @BeatlesFan @Kralingen @BorgTheGOAT

MichaelNadal · Jul 31, 2023

This forum is so boring now lol

timnz · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Number of Surfaces Mastered by ATGs

Djokovic - 4 [ HC, Grass, Clay & Indoors ]

Federer - 3 [ Grass, HC & Indoors ]
Sampras - 3 [ Grass, HC & Indoors ]
Nadal - 3 [ Clay, Grass and HC ]
Borg - 3 [ Clay, Grass & Indoors ]
Lendl - 3 [ Clay, HC & Indoors ]
Connors - 3 [ HC, Grass & Indoors ]
Mcenroe - 3 [ HC, Grass & Indoors ]
Becker - 3 [ Grass, HC & Indoors ]

Wilander - 2 [ Clay & HC ]
Edberg - 2 [ Grass & HC ]

Agassi - 1 [ HC ]
Courier - 1 [ Clay ]
Nastase - 1 [ Indoors ]
Murray - 1 [ Grass ]
Hewitt - 1 [ Indoors ]
Stich - 1 [ Indoors ]

At least 2 Slams on a single slam surface, 3 on a double slam surface, 2 WTF titles for Indoors is considered as a cut off for the list .....

Agassi is slightly overrated @BeatlesFan @Kralingen @BorgTheGOAT

Just a comment about Borg. He only competed in 4 Hard Court Slam tournaments in his whole career (US Open 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981) and got to the final 3 times. I do believe he would have won eventually. Glad you gave the nod Indoors to Connors who only won 1 WTF, but I am sure you gave him credit for his two WCT Finals (and also he won more Indoor than anyone in the open era 55 official titles, many more unofficial)- you'd have to say he can play indoors.

Razer · Jul 31, 2023

timnz said:
Just a comment about Borg. He only competed in 4 Hard Court Slam tournaments in his whole career (US Open 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981) and got to the final 3 times. I do believe he would have won eventually. Glad you gave the nod to Connors who only won 1 WTF, but I am sure you gave him credit for his two WCT Finals.

Yeah I counted WCTs too, it was big in those days, so it has to be counted. 56 indoor titles also the highest.

jrepac · Jul 31, 2023

Connors should get credit for the '76 USO on clay (har tru)
Guess I'm not grasping how you are counting here
Do we need 2 slams on the same surface to get a chit?
I think if someone has won a GS on every surface at least once, that is still a very short list.

Fed
Nadal
Djoko
Agassi
Wilander
Connors

WeekendTennisHack · Jul 31, 2023

Indoors isn't a surface.

jl809 · Jul 31, 2023

If indoors is a surface then so is windy

also where's carpet???? Mac's on 4

Azure · Jul 31, 2023

You should count rainy and cloudy surfaces along with snowy, deserty, naughty etc.

Razer · Jul 31, 2023

WeekendTennisHack said:
Indoors isn't a surface.

jl809 said:
If indoors is a surface then so is windy

also where's carpet???? Mac's on 4

Azure said:
You should count rainy and cloudy surfaces along with snowy, deserty, naughty etc.

Indoors definitely pose a unique challenge and the fact that Nadal has nothing to show there exposes his shortcoming, it definitely should be counted as a surface. The biggest tournament indoors has always been the year end championship which is held every year and historically this has a lot of significance, the best champs every year fought for this and won it. You cannot brush it under the rug just because your man was a big flop there. Nadal fans should show good faith and accept it a legit black mark on his resume.

jl809 · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Indoors definitely pose a unique challenge and the fact that Nadal has nothing to show there exposes his shortcoming, it definitely should be counted as a surface. The biggest tournament indoors has always been the year end championship which is held every year and historically this has a lot of significance, the best champs every year fought for this and won it. You cannot brush it under the rug just because your man was a big flop there. Nadal fans should show good faith and accept it a legit black mark on his resume.

Ofc Nadal is crap indoors. But indoor was on carpet too! What about carpet which is an actual surface??? Mac and Borg are being robbed! At least put them in the 4

Azure · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Indoors definitely pose a unique challenge and the fact that Nadal has nothing to show there exposes his shortcoming, it definitely should be counted as a surface. The biggest tournament indoors has always been the year end championship which is held every year and historically this has a lot of significance, the best champs every year fought for this and won it. You cannot brush it under the rug just because your man was a big flop there. Nadal fans should show good faith and accept it a legit black mark on his resume.

Lol there is no issue in saying Nadal is bad at indoors hards and not bad per se but limited in success. There is nothing to ‘accept’ here but its not a surface.

Backspin1183 · Jul 31, 2023

Big 3:

Nadal 4 (windy outdoors, clay, grass and hard court)
Federer 6 (windy outdoors, clay, grass, hard court, indoors and carpet)
Djokovic 4 (indoors, clay, grass and hard court)

Nadal and Djokovic have mastered 4 surfaces and have been dominant on them all.

Federer separates himself from the other 2 with his mastery over all surfaces.

ibbi · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
The biggest tournament indoors has always been the year end championship

Except the years it was held outdoors…

Worse than classing indoor hard courts as a different surface to outdoor hard courts is the seeming grouping together of indoor hard courts and indoor carpet courts?

MichaelNadal · Jul 31, 2023

Azure said:
You should count rainy and cloudy surfaces along with snowy, deserty, naughty etc.

You know Novak needs his fishtanks lol

Razer · Jul 31, 2023

Backspin1183 said:
Big 3:

Nadal 4 (windy outdoors, clay, grass and hard court)
Federer 6 (windy outdoors, clay, grass, hard court, indoors and carpet)
Djokovic 4 (indoors, clay, grass and hard court)

Nadal and Djokovic have mastered 4 surfaces and have been dominant on them all.

Federer separates himself from the other 2 with his mastery over all surfaces.

Federer was the one who got Carpet removed by lobbying and then forced Paris to tear up their court. Plus Federer has no Mastery over Clay. He has just 1 French Open and that too is because of his Hitman Soderling taking out Nadal in 09 to clear the way for the Maestro to win the French.

@Holmes

crimson87 · Jul 31, 2023

Peak clay Nadal stopped Federer from having 6 FO... Funny how the non master ended up beating peak Djokovic on clay.

Razer · Jul 31, 2023

Azure said:
Lol there is no issue in saying Nadal is bad at indoors hards and not bad per se but limited in success. There is nothing to ‘accept’ here but its not a surface.

jl809 said:
Ofc Nadal is crap indoors. But indoor was on carpet too! What about carpet which is an actual surface??? Mac and Borg are being robbed! At least put them in the 4

ibbi said:
Except the years it was held outdoors…

Worse than classing indoor hard courts as a different surface to outdoor hard courts is the seeming grouping together of indoor hard courts and indoor carpet courts?

Edited the post, seprataed indoor HC and Indoor Carpets, it is hard to separate though because now we have to count small titles....it is ridiculous....anyway it doesn't improve Fedal's status you know

GabeT · Jul 31, 2023

I love the smell of TTW in the morning

Azure · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Edited the post, seprataed indoor HC and Indoor Carpets, it is hard to separate though because now we have to count small titles....it is ridiculous....anyway it doesn't improve Fedal's status you know

No, this is correct. Indoors is not a surface. At least I am least bothered about these goat debates. Enjoy your thread.

ibbi · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Edited the post, seprataed indoor HC and Indoor Carpets, it is hard to separate though because now we have to count small titles....it is ridiculous....anyway it doesn't improve Fedal's status you know

Well, the notion of the thread is ridiculous to begin with

Roger Federer didn’t master clay? The only thing he didn’t master was Nadal on clay. He’d have loved a shot at this guy under the lights.

And Agassi is overrated? Agassi’s feat of being the only guy to win all 4 majors when the 4 majors were at their hardest to win is one of the greatest feats in tennis. He’s maybe the most underrated player that there is.

timnz · Jul 31, 2023

What about Vilas? He won the 77 French Open on Clay and the 77 US Open on Clay.

timnz · Jul 31, 2023

Azure said:
No, this is correct. Indoors is not a surface. At least I am least bothered about these goat debates. Enjoy your thread.

Indoors is not a surface...but it sure influences outcomes. Nadal's career has been awesome but note he has only won 1 indoor title. One would have to say that indoor is his least favourite conditions.

Razer · Jul 31, 2023

ibbi said:
Well, the notion of the thread is ridiculous to begin with Roger Federer didn’t master clay? The only thing he didn’t master was Nadal on clay. He’d have loved a shot at this guy under the lights.

And Agassi is overrated? Agassi’s feat of being the only guy to win all 4 majors when the 4 majors were at their hardest to win is one of the greatest feats in tennis. He’s maybe the most underrated player that there is.

I think Agassi is overrated because almost every ATG (except Borg) has got multiple Slams on HCs, there is hardly anyone without 2-3 slams on HCs because there are too many slams on that surface. That leaves Grass & Clay, now most ATGs either have 2+ on one of these surfaces, Agassi is the only one who doesn't have multiple slams on both Grass & Clay. Then he also has only 1 WTF title. So tell me, this forum rates Agassi as on par with Lendl, McEnroe and Connors, isn't that overrated ? He is not a tier 2 ATG, he is only as good as Boris Becker, Edberg and Mats.

timnz · Jul 31, 2023

ibbi said:
Well, the notion of the thread is ridiculous to begin with Roger Federer didn’t master clay? The only thing he didn’t master was Nadal on clay. He’d have loved a shot at this guy under the lights.

And Agassi is overrated? Agassi’s feat of being the only guy to win all 4 majors when the 4 majors were at their hardest to win is one of the greatest feats in tennis. He’s maybe the most underrated player that there is.

Yes, Agassi had the most ability to play on the full range of surfaces more than anyone I believe. Fast Grass, Slow Clay.

Azure · Jul 31, 2023

timnz said:
Indoors is not a surface...but it sure influences outcomes. Nadal's career has been awesome but note he has only won 1 indoor title. One would have to say that indoor is his least favourite conditions.

Bolded part correct.. rest of your statement, who’s disputing that? If someone is, take it up with him/her.

tennis_pro · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Indoor

DSH · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Indoors definitely pose a unique challenge and the fact that Nadal has nothing to show there exposes his shortcoming, it definitely should be counted as a surface. The biggest tournament indoors has always been the year end championship which is held every year and historically this has a lot of significance, the best champs every year fought for this and won it. You cannot brush it under the rug just because your man was a big flop there. Nadal fans should show good faith and accept it a legit black mark on his resume.

Playing indoors makes the Spanish Bull claustrophobic.

DSH · Jul 31, 2023

timnz said:
Indoors is not a surface...but it sure influences outcomes. Nadal's career has been awesome but note he has only won 1 indoor title. One would have to say that indoor is his least favourite conditions.

Nadal has won two indoor titles:
Madrid 2005 and Sao Paulo 2013.

abhi_trip · Jul 31, 2023

Let's be honest, Fed is the only guy who could master blue clay. He may have lost most of his records to Djokodal, but he's far more versatile than the other two. He's the only one out of the three, who could play in any era and be successful.

Holmes · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Federer was the one who got Carpet removed by lobbying and then forced Paris to tear up their court. Plus Federer has no Mastery over Clay. He has just 1 French Open and that too is because of his Hitman Soderling taking out Nadal in 09 to clear the way for the Maestro to win the French.

@Holmes

Harsh, but undeniably true in fundamentals.

Holmes · Jul 31, 2023

Undeniably a fairer look at Pete's versatility.

timnz · Jul 31, 2023

DSH said:
Nadal has won two indoor titles:
Madrid 2005 and Sao Paulo 2013.

Yes you are right. I was meaning indoor carpet and hard.

timnz · Jul 31, 2023

ibbi said:
Except the years it was held outdoors…

Worse than classing indoor hard courts as a different surface to outdoor hard courts is the seeming grouping together of indoor hard courts and indoor carpet courts?

Only outdoors 3 times in 53 years. It is the premier indoor event.

WeekendTennisHack · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Indoors definitely pose a unique challenge and the fact that Nadal has nothing to show there exposes his shortcoming, it definitely should be counted as a surface. The biggest tournament indoors has always been the year end championship which is held every year and historically this has a lot of significance, the best champs every year fought for this and won it. You cannot brush it under the rug just because your man was a big flop there. Nadal fans should show good faith and accept it a legit black mark on his resume.

I'm not a Nadal fan. That still doesn't make indoors a surface.

TMF · Jul 31, 2023

Backspin1183 said:
Big 3:

Nadal 4 (windy outdoors, clay, grass and hard court)
Federer 6 (windy outdoors, clay, grass, hard court, indoors and carpet)
Djokovic 4 (indoors, clay, grass and hard court)

Nadal and Djokovic have mastered 4 surfaces and have been dominant on them all.

Federer separates himself from the other 2 with his mastery over all surfaces.

Federer = Versality

Also he's the only one who mastered the blue clay

Lleytonstation · Jul 31, 2023

MichaelNadal said:
This forum is so boring now lol

You mean tennis.

Mike Sams · Jul 31, 2023

MichaelNadal said:
This forum is so boring now lol

Next week, Rogers Cup starts leading to Cincinnati and then the big one at Flushing Meadows!

MichaelNadal · Jul 31, 2023

Mike Sams said:
Next week, Rogers Cup starts leading to Cincinnati and then the big one at Flushing Meadows!

Can't wait, I do love the NA hardcourt swing. And it helps that Alcaraz is slaying and Venus is playing

TheFifthSet · Jul 31, 2023

Razer said:
Number of Surfaces Mastered by ATGs

Djokovic - 4 [ Outdoor HC, Grass, Clay & Indoor HC ]
Sampras - 4 [ Grass, Outdoor HC, Indoors HC & Carpets ]
Connors - 4 [ Outdoor HC, Grass, Indoor HC & Carpets ]
Lendl - 4 [ Clay, Outdoor HC, Indoor HC & Carpets ]
Mcenroe - 4 [ Outdoor HC, Grass, Indoor HC & Carpets]
Becker - 4 [ Grass, Outdoor HC, Indoor HC & Carpets ]

Federer - 3 [ Grass, Outdoor HC & Indoor HC ]
Nadal - 3 [ Clay, Grass and Outdoor HC ]
Borg - 3 [ Clay, Grass & Indoor Carpets ]
Edberg - 3 [ Grass, Outdoor HC & Indoor HC]
Agassi - 3 [ Outdoor HC, Indoor HC & Carpets ]

Wilander - 2 [ Clay & Outdoor HC ]

Courier - 1 [ Clay ]
Nastase - 1 [ Indoors ]
Murray - 1 [ Grass ]
Hewitt - 1 [ Indoors ]
Stich - 1 [ Indoors ]

At least 2 Slams on a single slam surface, 3 on a double slam surface, 2 WTF titles for Indoors is considered as a cut off for the list .....

Agassi is slightly overrated @BeatlesFan @Kralingen @BorgTheGOAT

How did Agassi master Indoor HC more than Federer mastered clay?

MichaelNadal · Jul 31, 2023

Lleytonstation said:
You mean tennis.

We need the King back

timnz · Aug 1, 2023

TheFifthSet said:
How did Agassi master Indoor HC more than Federer mastered clay?

Not sure that’s true. Federer was the second best clay courter in the world for 5
Years. And possibly the best for 2009 (beat Nadal in Madrid and later won the French Open)

TearTheRoofOff · Aug 1, 2023

McEnroe more versatile than Borg confirmed.

Hitman · Aug 1, 2023

Indoors in NOT a surface.

There are only three surfaces right now, Hard, Clay and Grass.

Anything can be indoors, we have indoor clay and indoor grass matches now too.

Start da Game · Aug 1, 2023

sorry to bust your bubble, but out of the big-3 only nadal mastered clay to a very high level......no one else mastered anything to such level......if they did, they would be holding 28 slams on hardcourts or 14 slams on grass each......they managed to become unreal baseliners with defensive skills superior to any of the greats before them.......i am not saying they are chumps on certain surfaces, i am just saying they could not truly master at least one surface like nadal did on clay......

thrust · Aug 1, 2023

WeekendTennisHack said:
Indoors isn't a surface.

I was when it was played on wood or carpet. Indoor hard is not a different surface than outdoor hard. The playing conditions, I would think would be easier than outdoor hard. No wind or sun to deal with.

thrust · Aug 1, 2023

timnz said:
Not sure that’s true. Federer was the second best clay courter in the world for 5
Years. And possibly the best for 2009 (beat Nadal in Madrid and later won the French Open)

I am pretty sure Novak beat Nadal on clay more times than Roger did.

TheFifthSet · Aug 1, 2023

timnz said:
Not sure that’s true. Federer was the second best clay courter in the world for 5
Years. And possibly the best for 2009 (beat Nadal in Madrid and later won the French Open)

We’re in agreement

thrust · Aug 1, 2023

TheFifthSet said:
We’re in agreement

French Open- Novak-3, Roger-1
Rome- Novak-6, Roger-0
Monte Carlo- Novak-2, Roger-0
Madrid- Novak-3, Roger-1
We all know Rafa is the King of Clay, and that Novak has won more big clay tournaments than Roger.

TheFifthSet · Aug 1, 2023

thrust said:
French Open- Novak-3, Roger-1
Rome- Novak-6, Roger-0
Monte Carlo- Novak-2, Roger-0
Madrid- Novak-3, Roger-1
We all know Rafa is the King of Clay, and that Novak has won more big clay tournaments than Roger.

I did not invoke Novak. I agree that Djokovic has had the better CC career. Not sure how your comment is relevant to what I said.

Razer · Aug 1, 2023

Why is everybody trying to get technical by pointing that indoors is not a surface?
Even a small kid knows that playing surface is what your foot is on for walking, of course indoors is an environment and not specifically a surface, but the essence of the post is to highlight that Indoors are different conditions which need to be given importance and require versatility.

Plus the aim of the post is to show that Agassi is the only ATG on earth who doesn't have multiple slams on both Grass & Clay. So much hype for a jack of all trades....

Number of Surfaces Mastered by ATGs

Legend

Bionic Poster

Legend

Legend

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

G.O.A.T.

Legend

Hall of Fame

G.O.A.T.

Talk Tennis Guru

G.O.A.T.

Bionic Poster

Legend

Semi-Pro

Legend

G.O.A.T.

G.O.A.T.

G.O.A.T.

Legend

Legend

Legend

Legend

G.O.A.T.

Bionic Poster

Talk Tennis Guru

Talk Tennis Guru

Rookie

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

Legend

Legend

Hall of Fame

Talk Tennis Guru

Talk Tennis Guru

G.O.A.T.

Bionic Poster

Legend

Bionic Poster

Legend

G.O.A.T.

Bionic Poster

Hall of Fame

Legend

Legend

Legend

Legend

Legend

Legend

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