Tennis Drama..Argh!!

smiley74 · Jan 29, 2008

So, my dilemma of pushing and winning versus playing correctly and losing is solved. I just quit the ladder today. Screw it. I will just play tournaments.

WAY too much drama. I didn't mention that the first woman I played and beat screamed "Yes" at the top of her lungs every time a ball I hit went into the net or out. I thought that was SO rude. Then, a few days later I was rallying for fun with same woman and she proceeded to scream out and not hit balls that were like 1 inch past the baseline even though she was standing right there!We were JUST rallying!!!! I was being nice by hitting with her as I thought her reactions during the match were so rude. What is wrong with people?????

The next woman I played and beat blatantly lied and cheated. She called balls I hit out that I know were absolutely in; played points and then after she lost said points didn't count because my ball was really out; and she hit a "winner" when my first serve hit the net (let) and bounced in. I went to prepare for my second serve while she hit said winner and then she told me my first serve didn't hit the net. Um, hello!!

The next woman I was scheduled to play left a phone message that said, "So, I see you are moving up the ladder. So, what do you think you can beat me? Well, I am not going to let that happen.".

I would have been playing these same women multiple times.

To make matters worse, I told the tennis director I was leaving the ladder and he started calling me selfish at the top of his lungs in front of the entire lobby (because I would mess up ladder matches?). It was REALLY embarassing. He was so pissed and implied he wouldn't put me on any teams now. *sigh* I didn't tell him the real reason I was quitting because I know these women would blackball me .....big time.

So as Alexander would say...today was a no good very bad day!!! :evil:

Welcome to the world of club tennis.

tzinc · Jan 29, 2008

People are idiots.

WBF · Jan 29, 2008

There will be idiots wherever you go! Sad but true. I just avoid hitting with them; try to find someone (or a few people) you enjoy playing with, and just hit with them regularly.

Moz · Jan 29, 2008

Sorry to hear about all of that. You sound as though you are alot more tolerant than me! Which is a good thing usually...

Venetian · Jan 29, 2008

There's so much more drama in women's leagues. =P

Guys just go out and hit. At least from my experience.

bumblebee · Jan 29, 2008

wow....(not at u, at them). just find a better club, leave them alone.

takl23 · Jan 29, 2008

This is almost too absurd to be a true story. How is anyone a member at your club?

JavierLW · Jan 29, 2008

smiley74 said:
So, my dilemma of pushing and winning versus playing correctly and losing is solved. I just quit the ladder today. Screw it. I will just play tournaments.

WAY too much drama. I didn't mention that the first woman I played and beat screamed "Yes" at the top of her lungs every time a ball I hit went into the net or out. I thought that was SO rude. Then, a few days later I was rallying for fun with same woman and she proceeded to scream out and not hit balls that were like 1 inch past the baseline even though she was standing right there!We were JUST rallying!!!! I was being nice by hitting with her as I thought her reactions during the match were so rude. What is wrong with people?????

The next woman I played and beat blatantly lied and cheated. She called balls I hit out that I know were absolutely in; played points and then after she lost said points didn't count because my ball was really out; and she hit a "winner" when my first serve hit the net (let) and bounced in. I went to prepare for my second serve while she hit said winner and then she told me my first serve didn't hit the net. Um, hello!!

The next woman I was scheduled to play left a phone message that said, "So, I see you are moving up the ladder. So, what do you think you can beat me? Well, I am not going to let that happen.".

I would have been playing these same women multiple times.

To make matters worse, I told the tennis director I was leaving the ladder and he started calling me selfish at the top of his lungs in front of the entire lobby (because I would mess up ladder matches?). It was REALLY embarassing. He was so pissed and implied he wouldn't put me on any teams now. *sigh* I didn't tell him the real reason I was quitting because I know these women would blackball me .....big time.

So as Alexander would say...today was a no good very bad day!!! :evil:

Welcome to the world of club tennis.

Either player can call it when the serve hits the net.

I wouldnt play people like that either, especially in a club league.

There is a knucklehead that is sort of like that in the local club 3.5 singles league. Whenever someone calls me to sub for them my first question is always "are you playing so and so??".

(he hits balls hard in the corner on warmups, questions every call you make and makes bad calls himself, as well as continuously argues about the score yet is offended if you use the score cards. Also during the warmup, if you dont feed him a decent enough ball that he can whack into the corner, he will just catch it and feed it back to you.)

Some people just simply dont have a lot of class, which is why sometimes if Im stuck in a situation like that (which happens a lot in tournament and league play where you dont get to choose who your opponent is), I'll just keep to myself and play tennis.

dgrave2 · Jan 29, 2008

Venetian said:
There's so much more drama in women's leagues. =P

Guys just go out and hit. At least from my experience.

yea thats how it's been for me too... guys just hit. lol

Cindysphinx · Jan 29, 2008

This must be a private club ladder thing.

I have a friend who plays in the country club league. Their teams are designated by color, something like red, blue, yellow, green. She's yellow and wants to be blue. The only way to move up is beat someone on the ladder.

She says she challenges people, but they find themselves somehow unavailable to schedule a match. All summer, they are unavailable. So she stays yellow and fumes about it.

She just joined the county USTA day league. I think she is starting to like the idea of playing strangers instead of the same people all the time. And she likes the fact that no one can hide from her.

Sorry, Smiley. Stick to your guns.

Or find another tennis community entirely, one that doesn't admit insane people.

pabletion · Jan 29, 2008

UUUUfffff, what a $hitty situation.... cant believe that happens in club leagues etc... I really hate it when ppl cheer mistakes, and yeah its rude, you should say something, I do, I mean, sometimes when the dog barks, the only thing u can do is bark back... If I say something and the other doesnt stop, I'll do the same, really loud... And about cheaters, I mean, you gotta confront them, if not theyll keep at it till hell freezes over... call them on it, on the first few balls, ask "are u sure?, looked in from here... etc", if they keep it up, either stop playin, demand they stop cheatin, etc, or make some phony calls on your side to get them to taste their own.... Hell, were playing for fun, were no pros, but c'mon those kind of people have to be confronted and should be kicked out of those leagues... best of luck!!!

shell · Jan 29, 2008

Smiley, find another group of people to play with. They are not all like that, in fact few are that extreme.

I quit tennis for 15 year because of the lack of fun factor - a decision I hughly regret. But now that I am back, I have no tolorance for that behavior. I've been known to throw a match due to lack of interest in playing at that level of competitive (I'll graciouly call it that) spirit. Ultimately, you have to decide what is important to you. I can find all I need from tennis by just hitting with a ball machine - the mental self vs. self. But most people are not like that and want/need some competitive fire via an opponent.

Make it what you want of it. Play only on your terms. My guess is that more often than not, you will find plenty of folks who feel just like you. F$%#$ 'em that can't find the beauty of a nice relaxing hit or a freindly competitive couple of sets.

Moz · Jan 30, 2008

shell said:
But now that I am back, I have no tolorance for that behavior. I've been known to throw a match due to lack of interest in playing at that level of competitive (I'll graciouly call it that) spirit.

Doing this probably perpetuates the situation as you are basically validating their tactics as they walk away with a win.

shell · Jan 30, 2008

Moz said:
Doing this probably perpetuates the situation as you are basically validating their tactics as they walk away with a win.

yes, good point.

Moz · Jan 30, 2008

Although I must admit that personally I have always enjoyed the view from the moral high ground

. Rare that it is.

Crusher10s · Jan 30, 2008

LOL Moz....the view is much clearer up here isn't it? <tongue in cheek>

smiley74 · Jan 30, 2008

I know...it's insane!

Yes, it is a private club ladder. It works by moving you up the ladder when you win and down when you lose. So, some people have always remained at bottom playing the same people. A friend who plays at my club said the bottom players get desparate to move up and are super cut throat. Plus, your ladder results effect if and what level team you will be placed on.

I like the sound of the USTA day league!

I just joined this club a couple of months ago (at $790) not including clinics, lessons, court time, etc. So, I can't really just pack up and find a new club.:-?

I try to find other people to play with but once people get bumped up to 3.5 they think they are superstars and can't lower themselves to hit with us "commoners". Nevermind the fact that a few of us can hang with the weak 3.5 players and give them good rallies. Now, they are too cool to mix with players beneathe them! Man, this tennis club world has such a high school mentality!!

So, I JUST hooked up with 3 women to play a fun doubles match on Sunday. My friend will be my playing partner. We all did a clinic together and got along so I am hoping it will be fun!

What stinks is my first singles tournament is in February so I was kinda using the ladder to get ready. Bummer......

goober · Jan 30, 2008

Sounds like a dumb ladder. I have a hard time fathoming how grown adults could actually act like that, but if that is the case, leave the club. I have not seen any of that type of behavior at public tennis centers except for isolated incidences. Most private clubs I have seen tend to be exclusive little tennis cliques and a big social scene. Having played at and with many private club members I would say a large number of them over rate their ability and overall better tennis is not being played there.

Play somewhere else and form your own team.

Geezer Guy · Jan 30, 2008

In the ladder leagues I've played in, once you challenge someone they have 2 weeks to get the match scheduled. If they fail to schedule the match, it's the same as losing the match. That way it's impossible to work your way to the top of the ladder and just hold your place by refusing to play matches.

As far as the other jerky behavior - you're about as likely to find that in tournaments as in ladders. You just have to deal with it.

slice bh compliment · Jan 30, 2008

A tennis director yelling? That's pretty weak. Really just as weak as the yutzes you played.
Wouldn't it be smarter for him to apologize for the idiots in his ladder and agree to educate them on how to properly conduct themselves in this social and fun recreational sport? I'm sure he is in an awkward position, too, but I'd say it is his job to make everyone comfortable. Or at least less uncomfortable.

On the other hand, I'm guessing you are 34 years old and maybe you've done something to **** these people off. Smiley74, being younger than the average member is not good for their egos, you know.;-)

Well, anyway smiley, club tennis does not have to be that bad, you know.

I play at a nice club and it's pretty chill. I just book courts when I need them, schedule a hit with whomever I like. Two teaching pros drill with me for free and they set me up with the good juniors, too. I bring guests and pay a guest fee. I don't play with any total asses. I know some but I don't play with them. The club membership has been a good experience overall, except the little things, like the food kinda sucking or the juicer being broken. Or the pro shop overcharging for substandard Nike clothes and being too small to carry more of the cool stuff that I like.

Anyway, maybe in the interest of having a good time at the club for years to come, you might re-consider quitting, have a rational talk with the director and ask his advice on dealing with the yutzes he's got in his ladder. Put 'the ball in his court'.

cak · Jan 30, 2008

All tennis or country clubs are not alike. The club I belong to may have it's occasional petty spats, but overall it's a caring, supportive group of people that offer that support way beyond tennis. Families in our club have been hit with many circumstances that really puts tennis in perspective. It's just a game. Competing as a team is fun. But when it comes to life altering adversity, a close community, maybe built on tennis, and the friendships that come with it transcends any game.

spiderman123 · Jan 30, 2008

smiley74 said:
So, my dilemma of pushing and winning versus playing correctly and losing is solved. I just quit the ladder today. Screw it. I will just play tournaments.

WAY too much drama. I didn't mention that the first woman I played and beat screamed "Yes" at the top of her lungs every time a ball I hit went into the net or out. I thought that was SO rude. Then, a few days later I was rallying for fun with same woman and she proceeded to scream out and not hit balls that were like 1 inch past the baseline even though she was standing right there!We were JUST rallying!!!! I was being nice by hitting with her as I thought her reactions during the match were so rude. What is wrong with people?????

The next woman I played and beat blatantly lied and cheated. She called balls I hit out that I know were absolutely in; played points and then after she lost said points didn't count because my ball was really out; and she hit a "winner" when my first serve hit the net (let) and bounced in. I went to prepare for my second serve while she hit said winner and then she told me my first serve didn't hit the net. Um, hello!!

The next woman I was scheduled to play left a phone message that said, "So, I see you are moving up the ladder. So, what do you think you can beat me? Well, I am not going to let that happen.".

I would have been playing these same women multiple times.

To make matters worse, I told the tennis director I was leaving the ladder and he started calling me selfish at the top of his lungs in front of the entire lobby (because I would mess up ladder matches?). It was REALLY embarassing. He was so pissed and implied he wouldn't put me on any teams now. *sigh* I didn't tell him the real reason I was quitting because I know these women would blackball me .....big time.

So as Alexander would say...today was a no good very bad day!!! :evil:

Welcome to the world of club tennis.

First of all, I am sorry that you are stuck with this bunch for a while. Please do try to get away from them as soon as possible. If someone did this to me during a match, I will not tank the match by hitting out to give them the satisfaction of winning, but would end it right there with a handshake and walk away. If they feel happy with such victories, they are welcome to do so. Tennis should take care of reducing my stress, not increase it. A

Secondly, this is one of the most "amusing" experiences that I have read here. I mean, I can never imagine someone leaving such messages for recreational tennis.

Can you please post some of the other things that the players in this club have done? It is just good reading.

WSC · Jan 30, 2008

I believe it !

takl23 said:
This is almost too absurd to be a true story. How is anyone a member at your club?

I would change clubs as mine at least in the 3.0 level has ZERO Drama. However, our sister club that is literally 3 miles away has SO MUCH DRAMA. My friend calls me almost on a daily basis with a new story that tops the last one ! The latest involved a team player who was put on Court 4 even though she normally plays Court 1 or 2 due to a very strong line-up...OH MY !!!

smiley74 · Jan 30, 2008

Ok guys I can't change clubs!!!!!! I just bought a year membership there and it was SO not cheap!! :shock:

I should have started my post...in a world where starbucks rule, everyone drives a Lexus, cosmetic surgey is the norm, and who is wearing what outfit on court ("OMG- I could never be seen in an outfit someone else is wearing" they reply) lies.......tennis club drama. *insert twilight zone tune here* :twisted:

slice bh compliment · Jan 30, 2008

YEah, don't change clubs. Talk to the director there and work things out.

dgrave2 · Jan 30, 2008

smiley74 said:
Ok guys I can't change clubs!!!!!! I just bought a year membership there and it was SO not cheap!! :shock:

I should have started my post...in a world where starbucks rule, everyone drives a Lexus, cosmetic surgey is the norm, and who is wearing what outfit on court ("OMG- I could never be seen in an outfit someone else is wearing" they reply) lies.......tennis club drama. *insert twilight zone tune here* :twisted:

why would you buy a membership?? Can't you just go to a public tennis center and have spent that $800 you spent on backup racquets, private lessons, balls, etc..?

cknobman · Jan 30, 2008

women pull this crap because they know they wont get called out on it.

Men, in general, on the other hand are more than happy to call a person or people out and if that dosnt work we always can resort to the good ol @sswhoppin method. Thatll fix those cheatin b@stards!!!!

smiley74 · Jan 30, 2008

dgrave2 said:
why would you buy a membership?? Can't you just go to a public tennis center and have spent that $800 you spent on backup racquets, private lessons, balls, etc..?

Maybe if I lived in Florida! Unfortunately, being from New England if you want to play during the winter you need to join a club. :-(

So, here the nets are down outdoors from late November until April.

dgrave2 · Jan 30, 2008

oh wow... never thought about that. sorry

WSC · Jan 30, 2008

so true!

cknobman said:
women pull this crap because they know they wont get called out on it.

Men, in general, on the other hand are more than happy to call a person or people out and if that dosnt work we always can resort to the good ol @sswhoppin method. Thatll fix those cheatin b@stards!!!!

Ha ha yes, in general, us girls don't want to confront anyone. However, my friend had the right tactic in dealing with a woman in our league who is infamous for bad line calls...she did the same thing to her when it was close to the line and screamed at the top of her lungs - "OUUUUTTTT"! I guess that was enough to scare her straight and neither party had ball line calls for the rest of the game...I could not do that but maybe that's Me.

fe6250 · Jan 30, 2008

We have similar issues in the women's ladder at our club too. Cat fights and less than acceptable behavior are common. I think they just see way too much of each other than the guys do (inner-club, USTA, drills, etc...) as most are 'stay at homes'. I also believe that these 'stay at homes' tend to have a little more bottled up competition to unleash (I know, I know - many of them handle it fine). Interesting that the weekend and night leagues where the 'working women' play seem to have far less drama - just pent up emotion that needs an outlet in my opinion.

spiderman123 · Jan 30, 2008

fe6250 said:
We have similar issues in the women's ladder at our club too. Cat fights and less than acceptable behavior are common. I think they just see way too much of each other than the guys do (inner-club, USTA, drills, etc...) as most are 'stay at homes'. I also believe that these 'stay at homes' tend to have a little more bottled up competition to unleash (I know, I know - many of them handle it fine). Interesting that the weekend and night leagues where the 'working women' play seem to have far less drama - just pent up emotion that needs an outlet in my opinion.

You are treading into a very very dangerous territory my friend. Good luck to you! You may have just shielded a lot with that "I know I know" though.

fe6250 · Jan 30, 2008

spiderman123 said:
You are treading into a very very dangerous territory my friend. Good luck to you! You may have just shielded a lot with that "I know I know" though.

Trying!!!! You scared the heck out of me! Truth is that my wife brings home stories of tennis drama every night....yet nothing is 'always' or 'never' - right?

Cindysphinx · Jan 30, 2008

fe6250 said:
We have similar issues in the women's ladder at our club too. Cat fights and less than acceptable behavior are common. I think they just see way too much of each other than the guys do (inner-club, USTA, drills, etc...) as most are 'stay at homes'. I also believe that these 'stay at homes' tend to have a little more bottled up competition to unleash (I know, I know - many of them handle it fine). Interesting that the weekend and night leagues where the 'working women' play seem to have far less drama - just pent up emotion that needs an outlet in my opinion.

Dude, what planet are you on?

I play on day teams and night teams. There is considerable overlap in the players on these teams (with working and stay-at-home women on all the squads), which shoots your theory right there.

You TW guys who like to stereotype the genders need to have a meeting and get your facts straight. Here we have a guy saying the women are more competitive, and we have other TW guys declaring that women are less competitive.

Whatever.

Me, I think problems tend to crop up when tennis communities are too small and therefore somewhat incestuous. If you are seeing strangers most every time you take the court, you are more likely to focus on the game rather than the opponent. Otherwise things can get personal in a hurry.

fe6250 · Jan 30, 2008

I guess he was right! I did use the word 'tend' and that is just the experience I have experienced at my club where I am on the tennis committee (another planet I suppose). Don't take it as more than that.

fe6250 · Jan 30, 2008

Cindysphinx said:
Me, I think problems tend to crop up when tennis communities are too small and therefore somewhat incestuous. If you are seeing strangers most every time you take the court, you are more likely to focus on the game rather than the opponent. Otherwise things can get personal in a hurry.

I'm pretty sure my post mentions that these players 'see way too much of each other'. Being a 'stay at home' is a contributor to how often they see each other (play against each other) at our club as they are available for day teams, clinics, etc... more frequently. I'll back off on any other implications.

shell · Jan 30, 2008

Cindysphinx said:
Dude, what planet are you on?

I play on day teams and night teams. There is considerable overlap in the players on these teams (with working and stay-at-home women on all the squads), which shoots your theory right there.

You TW guys who like to stereotype the genders need to have a meeting and get your facts straight. Here we have a guy saying the women are more competitive, and we have other TW guys declaring that women are less competitive.

Whatever.

Me, I think problems tend to crop up when tennis communities are too small and therefore somewhat incestuous. If you are seeing strangers most every time you take the court, you are more likely to focus on the game rather than the opponent. Otherwise things can get personal in a hurry.

Yes, but that seems to be smiley's problem. She is in this club, and therefore the community shrinks. But there have got to be other players there that don't pull this stuff. And I somewhat agree with the gender generalizations = and yes, I am female. The guys I play with are competitive but generally more laid back.

Smiley, play with the lower level guys for a bit and see if you enjoy it more. I know that I ALWAYS enjoy playing with guys more than the ladies. Just a different atmosphere. At least when they get fired up, they just hit the fire out of the ball and never mind who is in the way. Much more predictable response

Topaz · Jan 30, 2008

Oh please...so some searches (*channeling Fee*), the guys can be just as horrible as the women.

Though, smiley, I do think shell has a good point for getting better! I know that when I hit with guys, and then go into a women's match, I play *so* much better...you feel like you have forever to do what you want with the ball.

smiley74 · Jan 31, 2008

Thanks for the additional responses!

I am actually still ticked off at the TD for screaming at me in front of the entire lobby. I failed to mention that he is also part owner of the club. :shock:

Maybe I will see if I can quit the club and get a pro-rated refund. However, I know a lot of clubs around here won't let you do that. My only other option is a club that is 30-40 minutes away.

Or, I can just try to forget it and move on! Unfortunately, that is not my personality. When I get ticked off- I stay that way for a very long time...just ask my poor hubby! :twisted: Hahahaha

user92626 · Jan 31, 2008

shell said:
Yes, but that seems to be smiley's problem. She is in this club, and therefore the community shrinks. But there have got to be other players there that don't pull this stuff. And I somewhat agree with the gender generalizations = and yes, I am female. The guys I play with are competitive but generally more laid back.

Smiley, play with the lower level guys for a bit and see if you enjoy it more. I know that I ALWAYS enjoy playing with guys more than the ladies. Just a different atmosphere. At least when they get fired up, they just hit the fire out of the ball and never mind who is in the way. Much more predictable response

Cindysphinx said:
Dude, what planet are you on?

I play on day teams and night teams. There is considerable overlap in the players on these teams (with working and stay-at-home women on all the squads), which shoots your theory right there.

You TW guys who like to stereotype the genders need to have a meeting and get your facts straight. Here we have a guy saying the women are more competitive, and we have other TW guys declaring that women are less competitive.

Whatever.

Me, I think problems tend to crop up when tennis communities are too small and therefore somewhat incestuous. If you are seeing strangers most every time you take the court, you are more likely to focus on the game rather than the opponent. Otherwise things can get personal in a hurry.

I'm completely with Cindy on this one. We need to stop stereotyping genders. I also think that most problems are with communities and I also have an anecdote of this to share.

I play in a casual tennis group and there's only one girl though she doesn't come out often. She plays nice, consistents and courteous to everyone, but there are at least 2 guys whose manners are like complete asses'. One of them mouths off other people's bad plays while he also has his share of craps, and the other one only plays with certain partners or won't at all. And this is a casual playing group as though a chance to get out of the house. Some of them even take the chance to smoke between the sets. So much for trying to get healthy for me. LOL.

wao · Jan 31, 2008

Cindysphinx said:
Dude, what planet are you on?

I play on day teams and night teams. There is considerable overlap in the players on these teams (with working and stay-at-home women on all the squads), which shoots your theory right there.

You TW guys who like to stereotype the genders need to have a meeting and get your facts straight. Here we have a guy saying the women are more competitive, and we have other TW guys declaring that women are less competitive.

Whatever.

Me, I think problems tend to crop up when tennis communities are too small and therefore somewhat incestuous. If you are seeing strangers most every time you take the court, you are more likely to focus on the game rather than the opponent. Otherwise things can get personal in a hurry.

I also on this one have to agree with Cindy. I hit with a lady who plays # 2 for a university in So Cal and she has a winning record on me. I look at ability not gender. Smiley, You will find that in every club ( IMO ) but within each there are usually a group of players ( F/M ) that have the same objectives and simular abilities. Ladders and teams are totally different.

SJS · Jan 31, 2008

Smiley,
Hang in there! I've lived and played tennis all over the country so have met more than my share of "crazies". But they are such a small percentage of all tennis players. My best friends usually end up being those I've met thru tennis.
What I do find intolerable is the behavior of the director. THAT I have never seen!
Since it doesn't look like you can just quit the club I have a little advice for you.
When you run across someone you might want to play with become a "match setter-upper" as mentioned in a previous thread. Most people are more than happy to play when asked but won't take the initiative to set things up.

beernutz · Jan 31, 2008

When you told the TD you were quitting the ladder, did you also tell him the honest truth (as opposed to the dishonest truth) about why?

FWIW, there have been some small drama bombs on the men's USTA teams and club ladders I've played on recently but nothing remotely in the same area as your story.

smiley74 said:
Thanks for the additional responses!

I am actually still ticked off at the TD for screaming at me in front of the entire lobby. I failed to mention that he is also part owner of the club. :shock:

Maybe I will see if I can quit the club and get a pro-rated refund. However, I know a lot of clubs around here won't let you do that. My only other option is a club that is 30-40 minutes away.

Or, I can just try to forget it and move on! Unfortunately, that is not my personality. When I get ticked off- I stay that way for a very long time...just ask my poor hubby! :twisted: Hahahaha

Tennis Drama..Argh!!

Rookie

Semi-Pro

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

Professional

Rookie

Semi-Pro

Hall of Fame

Semi-Pro

G.O.A.T.

Hall of Fame

Professional

Hall of Fame

Professional

Hall of Fame

Rookie

Rookie

Legend

Hall of Fame

G.O.A.T.

Professional

Professional

New User

Rookie

G.O.A.T.

Semi-Pro

Legend

Rookie

Semi-Pro

New User

Semi-Pro

Professional

Semi-Pro

G.O.A.T.

Semi-Pro

Semi-Pro

Professional

Legend

Rookie

G.O.A.T.

Professional

New User

Hall of Fame

Similar threads