Is "Classic Racquet Talk" a good idea???
- Thread starter plasma
- Start date
I'm only into vintage, finding vintage in the regular forum was a royal PITA....classic racquet talk is simply a good thing...if you support it, please post more vintage racuet threads until we get a fully separate but equal category...what a great little community this has become!!!
Deuce
Banned
The only way that people other than us will see these threads - and thus learn about the classics and be encouraged to try them - is when threads on classic racquets are incorporated directly in the Racquets section, as they were before the unfortunate birth of this section.
How many people over the years have said that they were encouraged or inspired to try an old classic because of what they read about those racquets? Hundreds of people. And probably 90% of them loved their experience with the classics.
That won't happen anymore if this segregated section continues.
How many people over the years have said that they were encouraged or inspired to try an old classic because of what they read about those racquets? Hundreds of people. And probably 90% of them loved their experience with the classics.
That won't happen anymore if this segregated section continues.
Deuce
Banned
Segregation from the majority or mainstream has never resulted in an increase in interest or popularity of the segregated item.
Segregation actually accomplishes the precise opposite.
All it does is allow for people already interested in the segregated subject to assemble together, separate from the majority and mainstream - effectively hiding the subject from the majority.
If this is your goal, so be it... but don't claim for a second that it will increase interest in classic racquets among those who are not already interested.
If you want to promote a product, you bring it to where the people (the majority) are. That is obviously the main Racquets section.
If you remove a product from where the people are, then obviously, you're not interested in promoting it - you prefer to hide it as an exclusive little 'secret club'.
Pretty selfish.
Of course, for this 'poll' to have any semblance of legitimacy or value, it would have to reach more than just those who come to this sub-section in order to post about classic racquets!
But then, it has become very obvious that this is how 'plasma' operates. First, he makes sure that all the cards are firmly stacked on his side of the table, then he asks his 'objective' question.
sigh...
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VGP
Legend
Ok Deuce, when before I was on the fence, you've convinced me that the segregation is a "bad" idea.
As a lot of people know, my favorite frame is the PS85, but what good is it discussing the frame when only the same people turn up. Not to offend those who've conversed with me over this sub-forum already, but no one "new" has come by.....
At least when easily viewed by more people in the main forum, you'll get the 'young kid' that will ask "what's so special about a St. Vincent" or you'll get the 'older player' that's a new member that will say "I used that frame for many years...."
The traffic here may end up being too low, or just low enough not to spark new discussion......
Although, the counter argument is that the "classic racket" talk gets buried in the main forum.....
Also, since this forum is supported by a major online retailer, cynically I think this could be part of an agenda to intentionally let "classic racket" talk fade into the background.....therefore supporting mostly discussion of current production frames that will definitely lead to sales of their current inventory......
As a lot of people know, my favorite frame is the PS85, but what good is it discussing the frame when only the same people turn up. Not to offend those who've conversed with me over this sub-forum already, but no one "new" has come by.....
At least when easily viewed by more people in the main forum, you'll get the 'young kid' that will ask "what's so special about a St. Vincent" or you'll get the 'older player' that's a new member that will say "I used that frame for many years...."
The traffic here may end up being too low, or just low enough not to spark new discussion......
Although, the counter argument is that the "classic racket" talk gets buried in the main forum.....
Also, since this forum is supported by a major online retailer, cynically I think this could be part of an agenda to intentionally let "classic racket" talk fade into the background.....therefore supporting mostly discussion of current production frames that will definitely lead to sales of their current inventory......
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matchmaker
Hall of Fame
RanchDressing
Hall of Fame
dataseviltwin
Rookie
concur across the board...
pshulam
Hall of Fame
It is fine.
jimbo333
Hall of Fame
I've said this many times before, but I'm not going to give up. This great "Classic Racquet Forum" should be on the main index page, otherwise people just won't be able to find easily enough, it should be:-
Racquets (New, Current)
Racquets (Classic,Discontinued)
Please TW Staff put this on main index page where people can see it!!!
Then more people will get to find out about these great classic racquets
Racquets (New, Current)
Racquets (Classic,Discontinued)
Please TW Staff put this on main index page where people can see it!!!
Then more people will get to find out about these great classic racquets
galain
Hall of Fame
Absolutely 100% agree on the v Bulletin vs Old Forum format. I wouldn't call it fancy though - generic is the term I'd go for.
Be that as it may - I'm really just happy to have boards we can have discussions like these on. At first I was thrilled to have found a separate "classics" area - mainly because talk on the classics often gets buried very quickly on the main board - but I do appreciate Deuce's very considered post and cannot disagree with the sentiments he shares with us.
Which is why I like the old board format better!!
Kirko
Hall of Fame
Agree and it seems that racket companies are swinging back to that direction, thats what the guy who owns the pro shop I go to says. eg. the K-88 .
roundiesee
Hall of Fame
Speaking from personal experience, I "dared" to try the PC600 as so many experienced posters spoke so favourably about it in the main racquet section (before this subsection was created). The PC600 is now my main choice.
"Classic Racquet Talk" does sound like a separate "club" where people who love to collect classic frames gather to discuss about their pet topic. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it is unlikely that I would have ventured here to learn of how good such frames are in terms of playability.
"Classic Racquet Talk" does sound like a separate "club" where people who love to collect classic frames gather to discuss about their pet topic. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it is unlikely that I would have ventured here to learn of how good such frames are in terms of playability.
anirut
Legend
Instead of "Classic Racquet Talk" how about "Racquets of Historical Importance" instead. This may draw more people into joining discussions.
For instance, the Bab PD, though a current model, does have its share of importance in racket history that may be considered a modern classic in a few years from now.
I know it's not a fine idea, but just some thoughts ...
For instance, the Bab PD, though a current model, does have its share of importance in racket history that may be considered a modern classic in a few years from now.
I know it's not a fine idea, but just some thoughts ...
Paul Murphy
Hall of Fame
Easy to find and easy to access.
I also agree that if it was in the general area it could be submerged.
That's one extra vote for "Yes".
I also agree that if it was in the general area it could be submerged.
That's one extra vote for "Yes".
Paul Murphy
Hall of Fame
Easy to find and easy to access.
I also agree that if it was in the general area it could be submerged.
That's one extra vote for "Yes".
I also agree that if it was in the general area it could be submerged.
That's one extra vote for "Yes".
Deuce
Banned
If they make it a regular forum, then they'll probably take it off the top of the 'Racquets' main page - so I don't think that will be any better.
Make it a regular forum and KEEP it at the top of the main 'Racquets' page would be good...
... But I still say that as long as there is a separate forum or sub-forum for Classic Racquets, it inherently hides them from the very people who could be discovering them.
The proof is right here in all these threads - it's still pretty much always the same people posting in this 'Classics' section.
Others are not discovering this section... and so they aren't discovering the classic racquets, either.
I don't think that's a positive thing.
We already know how wonderful these old frames are...
Make it a regular forum and KEEP it at the top of the main 'Racquets' page would be good...
... But I still say that as long as there is a separate forum or sub-forum for Classic Racquets, it inherently hides them from the very people who could be discovering them.
The proof is right here in all these threads - it's still pretty much always the same people posting in this 'Classics' section.
Others are not discovering this section... and so they aren't discovering the classic racquets, either.
I don't think that's a positive thing.
We already know how wonderful these old frames are...
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jimbo333
Hall of Fame
As I said a couple of days ago, unless more people view this forum, then you are probably correct
However, I'm sure you would agree that at the moment, this "Classic" forum is hidden. If more people can easily find it, and it's still the same people using it then fair enough. But it needs to be on main index page to give it a chance, surely!!!
It really needs to be on main index page as:-
Racquets (New, Current)
Racquets (Classic, Discontinued)
Then we will know if more people are viewing it, when they can find it
However, I'm sure you would agree that at the moment, this "Classic" forum is hidden. If more people can easily find it, and it's still the same people using it then fair enough. But it needs to be on main index page to give it a chance, surely!!!
It really needs to be on main index page as:-
Racquets (New, Current)
Racquets (Classic, Discontinued)
Then we will know if more people are viewing it, when they can find it
Deuce
Banned
I don't think it would be any less hidden if it were a main forum - because right now, it is rather prominently displayed at the top of the main 'Racquets' page.As I said a couple of days ago, unless more people view this forum, then you are probably correct
However, I'm sure you would agree that at the moment, this "Classic" forum is hidden. If more people can easily find it, and it's still the same people using it then fair enough. But it needs to be on main index page to give it a chance, surely!!!
It really needs to be on main index page as:-
Racquets (New, Current)
Racquets (Classic, Discontinued)
Then we will know if more people are viewing it, when they can find it
If it becaomes a main forum, it will likely no longer be displayed as on the main Racquets page.
As well, if it were listed as you suggest - i.e.
Racquets (New, Current)
Racquets (Classic, Discontinued)
I don't think there would be too many young people coming here. They would be turned off by knowing that only 'old' racquets are there.
When these classic frames were included in the regular Racquets section, however, many young people would see the title of a thread (which might have included a racquet name they are not familiar with), and entered the thread out of curiosity.
It's these people who, to me, are the most valuable. They are the ones who end up learning about these great old frames, and even trying them out.
But even if we have a big flashing sign that says "Learn About Wonderful Old Classic Racquets HERE", we won't get those young people - because to them, "old" is not 'cool'. To them, the flashing sign might as well read "KEEP OUT".
The only way for the young people (98% of them, at least) to find the old classics is by 'accident'.
And that can only happen if the classics are included in the regular Racquets section - as was happening previously.
jimbo333
Hall of Fame
I'm not saying take it away from the top of the racquets forum.
I'm saying treat it like every other sub-forum and also have it on the main index page.
It is hidden at the moment, if it is given a chance and put on main index page as well, more people will see it for sure!!!
Also I think you'll find young people are curious and will look in all the forums they can find, you are not giving them enough credit
I'm saying treat it like every other sub-forum and also have it on the main index page.
It is hidden at the moment, if it is given a chance and put on main index page as well, more people will see it for sure!!!
Also I think you'll find young people are curious and will look in all the forums they can find, you are not giving them enough credit
retrowagen
Hall of Fame
I don't like it as it is now. It seems marginalized to me, almost like a hidden link or afterthought.
When these topics were mixed in with the "new racket" chatter, it was more interesting in my opinion. Now the classic forum portion seems to me more like a small club, somewhat elitist, and dominated by some zany characters. At times the stream of consciousness monologues or pop culture soundbytes of certain folks annoys and drives me away for a while, but that's just my personality.
At any rate, if this passion for the classics stays divided from the overall discussion, many of the younger set (seems like most of the posts in the "normal" Racquets section are by enthusiasts of less than 18 years of age, sometimes!) will not hear about some of these classic pieces of equipment, or what it's like to hit tennis balls with them. Or perhaps that they're still legitimate pieces of tennis gear, and relevant in our favorite sport.
Just my $0.02...
When these topics were mixed in with the "new racket" chatter, it was more interesting in my opinion. Now the classic forum portion seems to me more like a small club, somewhat elitist, and dominated by some zany characters. At times the stream of consciousness monologues or pop culture soundbytes of certain folks annoys and drives me away for a while, but that's just my personality.
At any rate, if this passion for the classics stays divided from the overall discussion, many of the younger set (seems like most of the posts in the "normal" Racquets section are by enthusiasts of less than 18 years of age, sometimes!) will not hear about some of these classic pieces of equipment, or what it's like to hit tennis balls with them. Or perhaps that they're still legitimate pieces of tennis gear, and relevant in our favorite sport.
Just my $0.02...
Deuce
Banned
^ Well expressed.
If we are "elitist" then the folks with $200 racquets sure don't notice. If we are a "small club" it's only because we are slowly and organically growing and opening our doors to all minds and spirits, letting them eat freely at our table and feel like family.
I'm sorry if you two don't feel welcome, it is surely your own mind and ghosts which make this invisible wall so real for you as this intimate and deeply personal space has found itself worthy of your criticism and fear, while so many others simultaneously see the positive, special,and warm attributes...????
. ....we wish they would care about our $5 thrift store head edge as much as we do, calling us elitist is ironic though, .... Misfits, brilliant, outsiders, sure, but don't call us elitist, my entire life I've been the outsider, travelling form town to podunk town until my now long dead brilliant parents found a town inwhich they could both work, I am about as far from elitist as you can get, same goes for all other regular posters on classic racquet talk, all real people. This is a unique and wonderful fountain, a freindly and welcoming place ...Maybe it is YOU who are the hidden elitist?
I'm sorry if you two don't feel welcome, it is surely your own mind and ghosts which make this invisible wall so real for you as this intimate and deeply personal space has found itself worthy of your criticism and fear, while so many others simultaneously see the positive, special,and warm attributes...????
. ....we wish they would care about our $5 thrift store head edge as much as we do, calling us elitist is ironic though, .... Misfits, brilliant, outsiders, sure, but don't call us elitist, my entire life I've been the outsider, travelling form town to podunk town until my now long dead brilliant parents found a town inwhich they could both work, I am about as far from elitist as you can get, same goes for all other regular posters on classic racquet talk, all real people. This is a unique and wonderful fountain, a freindly and welcoming place ...Maybe it is YOU who are the hidden elitist?
Deuce
Banned
I did mention that the above post was a good one, right?
Bud
Bionic Poster
Twice, now :|
jimbo333
Hall of Fame
Hi, did you read my post that was above yours? Because it deals with your points made here!!!
"Classic Racquet Talk" is hidden because it is not visible on main index page.
These young people that you mention who are not viewing this forum, would if they could find it, and they would definitely enjoy it, it is good fun
roundiesee
Hall of Fame
Just an idea- could we not put a "sticky" on the main racquet section to let people (especially the younger generation) know that this section exists, and that it is not just for collectors but for anyone who is keen on getting more information on older, discontinued frames?
Deuce
Banned
I don't understand why some of you insist on failing to see what seems to be very obvious - that even if the younger people knew of the existence of this section, they would still avoid it, as anything "old" does not appeal to 98% of them...
... and that when these youngsters have found out about these classic racquets, it has almost always been by accident - by entering a thread where they didn't know that the subject was an old classic racquet, for example.
And these 'accidents' can only happen if things go back to the way they were, with ALL racquets being in the Racquets section, without segregation.
As long as this segregated section exists, it will be doing little more than preaching to the converted.
... and that when these youngsters have found out about these classic racquets, it has almost always been by accident - by entering a thread where they didn't know that the subject was an old classic racquet, for example.
And these 'accidents' can only happen if things go back to the way they were, with ALL racquets being in the Racquets section, without segregation.
As long as this segregated section exists, it will be doing little more than preaching to the converted.
Bud
Bionic Poster
Or by finding one of the classics at the local good will for 99 cents, playing with it... and realizing they've been duped and brainwashed :twisted:
these kids snort nintendo (no-friendo), and mainline MTV. It will take time before they appreciate the classics. This is a club to honor the classics. Your continuous claims that its autonomy makes it discreet are absurd.
I like children - fried.
W. C. Fields
just kidding, I actually donate locally and to programs around the country. It's a joy to see and hear about people using frames that I have donated (especially the one of a kind vintage made in USA, Austria and Belgium that I part with!). This section is really an adult-only movie though, no not that type of adult film, an intellectual film, Verner Herzogish, the type of transcendent films I was taken to as a kid. There was a reason the masses of kids and families found at hollywood blockbuster films were not in the audience. The same reason why the decieved fools who think their racquets look and perform better than mine, continually lose and forfeit to the Plaz-reaper, keep tennis warehouse in business, eat junkfood and not apples, play video games instead of reading the classics, etc.... Preaching to the non-converted is fine. But in order to do missionary work for our temple of graphite and Boron, to educate the polluted and embittered ones who mock and judge us; we must first have a temple to go to. I am officially naming tennis as my universal religon, (this way if I ever have a kid I won't have to snip his tournagrip!) brilliant!
I like children - fried.
W. C. Fields
just kidding, I actually donate locally and to programs around the country. It's a joy to see and hear about people using frames that I have donated (especially the one of a kind vintage made in USA, Austria and Belgium that I part with!). This section is really an adult-only movie though, no not that type of adult film, an intellectual film, Verner Herzogish, the type of transcendent films I was taken to as a kid. There was a reason the masses of kids and families found at hollywood blockbuster films were not in the audience. The same reason why the decieved fools who think their racquets look and perform better than mine, continually lose and forfeit to the Plaz-reaper, keep tennis warehouse in business, eat junkfood and not apples, play video games instead of reading the classics, etc.... Preaching to the non-converted is fine. But in order to do missionary work for our temple of graphite and Boron, to educate the polluted and embittered ones who mock and judge us; we must first have a temple to go to. I am officially naming tennis as my universal religon, (this way if I ever have a kid I won't have to snip his tournagrip!) brilliant!
Deuce
Banned
Actually, it has been historically proven that segregation segregates...
Umm... look it up.
It's also common sense.
Not to mention the fact that it's always the same people appearing and reappearing in this segregated section...
Even with you acting as the clown, the kids aren't coming into this circus...
saram
Legend
What...do you ask everyone their age in here?
good... let them be kids and enjoy themselves, this is the adult table...if it was a circus they would light up, as their bright primary pure view of their childlike utopia would be momentarily magically realized. Besides violence and pornography; there are other less obvious mature matters not meant for kids. Refined bland foods, sour foods, artisan foods, children are not meant to appreciate War and Peace, or some of the moving poignant and tragic non-fiction out there...let them be kids and love what is popular now, just like we did back then...if they develop an interest in this stuff...great, it is a sign that they are exceptional and mature, if they don't throw tantrums like some of the posters on this thread, they are welcome to sit and eat with the adults!!!
Bud
Bionic Poster
good... let them be kids and enjoy themselves, this is the adult table...if it was a circus they would light up, as their bright primary pure view of their childlike utopia would be momentarily magically realized. Besides violence and pornography; there are other less obvious mature matters not meant for kids. Refined bland foods, sour foods, artisan foods, children are not meant to appreciate War and Peace, or some of the moving poignant and tragic non-fiction out there...let them be kids and love what is popular now, just like we did back then...if they develop an interest in this stuff...great, it is a sign that they are exceptional and mature, if they don't throw tantrums like some of the posters on this thread, they are welcome to sit and eat with the adults!!!
Interesting mono there... have a full pic of it?
jimbo333
Hall of Fame
Exactly mate
If it is on the main index page, like every other sub-forum on TW, then it will be more visible and more people will view it for certain!!!And all ages will be able to view it. Who has more time to view these forums and is curious in general to find things out? Yes it's younger people, and they shouldn't be underestimated
