Safin/Monfils lead tape/customization on frames info required!...

R

Ross K

Legend
Like which locations they are thought/known to put lead at?... (are we talking polarized?... non-polarized?~... combinations of both?)... and about how much lead?... I'm sure in both cases it's a hefty load all right! :)... oh, and grip info too please (what kind grips they use, lead amounts in/on butt or whatever, etc)...

Anything and everything re these 2 players and their customization set ups gratefully received!

TIA,

R.
 
baseline_monster

baseline_monster

Professional
I know monfills uses calf skin leather with tourna and safin used to use the same but switched a few years ago to a head synthetic grip with pro overgrip on top
 
X

xFullCourtTenniSx

Hall of Fame
Safin definitely used some at the top of the racket, and sometimes used some at 3&9. Exactly how much I don't quite know. I heard he varied it based on what he thought felt good at the time... Might explain his lack of consistency... Haha. jk But he did vary the amounts himself based on how he felt it played. Some people have his rackets and can confirm this.
 
vsbabolat

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Ross K said:
Like which locations they are thought/known to put lead at?... (are we talking polarized?... non-polarized?~... combinations of both?)... and about how much lead?... I'm sure in both cases it's a hefty load all right! :)... oh, and grip info too please (what kind grips they use, lead amounts in/on butt or whatever, etc)...

Anything and everything re these 2 players and their customization set ups gratefully received!

TIA,

R.
Click to expand...

On Safins Frames his racquets start out much lighter than the retail frames. So knowing how much lead and where is not going to help you at all. What you want to know is what the end result is.

According to HDtennis Safin is at:
Weight: 353g
Balance: 32cm
SW: 347
Grip: 4 1/2
 
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baseline_monster

baseline_monster

Professional
vsbabolat said:
On Safins Frames his racquets start out much lighter than the retail frames. So knowing how much lead and where is not going to help you at all. What you want to know is what the end result is.

According to HDtennis Safin is at:
Weight: 353g
Balance: 32cm
SW: 347
Grip: 4 1/2
Click to expand...

How do they manage to take the weight out or is it a case of they add silicone to the frame to build the weight up?
 
X

xFullCourtTenniSx

Hall of Fame
baseline_monster said:
How do they manage to take the weight out or is it a case of they add silicone to the frame to build the weight up?
Click to expand...

The pro stock frames start out much lighter than retail frames so that the customizers of the players have much more control over the end result (basically they can do more with the frame). They add silicone (and lots of it) to gain some of the weight back before adding lead.
 
P

Pioneer

Professional
vsbabolat said:
On Safins Frames his racquets start out much lighter than the retail frames. So knowing how much lead and where is not going to help you at all. What you want to know is what the end result is.

According to HDtennis Safin is at:
Weight: 353g
Balance: 32cm
SW: 347
Grip: 4 1/2
Click to expand...

VS, I've been searching for hours on end to find out whether those specs are strung or unstrung but with no success. If you can tell me with certainty whether the Greg Raven specs are strung or unstrung I'll be extremely grateful
 
P

Pioneer

Professional
Ross K, I found these Safin specs in an old thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=121102

Below are the (unstrung I'm assuming) specs of the Dunlop PJed Safin racquet when Safin was younger and stringing in the upper 60's. The specs are a courtesy of Fena, I think.

Grip Size: 4
Weight: 330
Balance: 30.7
Stiff: 66
Swingweight: 296
Click to expand...

travlerajm concluded that the strung swingweight would be 365 which in my opinion is a bit exaggerated. I believe the strung specs would look something like:

350g
31.7cm
330-335 kgxcm^2

Keep in mind that these are the specs of Safin's dunlops which were just clones of his head racquet
 
R

Ross K

Legend
Pioneer,

Many thanks ^^^

Any guess/idea though how he might have customized - by which I mean where would he have put lead tape/how much/and grip info?

You always hear Marat and Gael had frames that were 'clubs' but I'd be keen to know or just have some good informed guesses on lead tape quantities/locations/as well as grip specifics.

Thanks again,

R.
 
baseline_monster

baseline_monster

Professional
Ross K said:
Pioneer,

Many thanks ^^^

Any guess/idea though how he might have customized - by which I mean where would he have put lead tape/how much/and grip info?

You always hear Marat and Gael had frames that were 'clubs' but I'd be keen to know or just have some good informed guesses on lead tape quantities/locations/as well as grip specifics.

Thanks again,

R.
Click to expand...

Safin uses Head hydrosorb synthetic grips with Wilson Pro overgrips, grip size 4, there is pictures on the Prestige thread. Monfills uses head calfskin with tourna grip, size 5 I'm pretty sure.
 
P

Pioneer

Professional
Ross K said:
Pioneer,

Many thanks ^^^

Any guess/idea though how he might have customized - by which I mean where would he have put lead tape/how much/and grip info?

You always hear Marat and Gael had frames that were 'clubs' but I'd be keen to know or just have some good informed guesses on lead tape quantities/locations/as well as grip specifics.

Thanks again,

R.
Click to expand...

If Marat's strung specs are what Greg Raven posted then it's not a club in any way, it's more like federer's racquet. If, however, these are unstrung specs, it's a very different animal at 370g, 33cm and 380 SW, though I doubt it, considering how much lower his Dunlop specs are

As far as lead tape placement is concerned, I believe Safin puts equal amounts at 12 and 3&9 and counterbalances with silicone in the handle
 
Last edited:
R

Ross K

Legend
baseline_monster said:
No worries Ross. Just wondering, when you say polarized in regards to lead, does that mean that its split at say 3 and 9 with a strip either side of the strings?
Click to expand...
Sorry b-line, I think there's a misunderstanding here somewhere and I'm sure you know this already but mention of polarized simply refers to a polarized set up, ie, like, say, lead tape @ 12 and in handle, versus a non-polarized set up, like, say, lead @ 3 and 9 and in handle... and as you're doubtless aware, many mix it up too, ie leading up @ 12,3,9, handle, etc - as Pioneer thinks Safin may have done at some stage...

I actually tried this lead set up recently on my Pres mid with not very much lead, however, the sweet balance suddenly felt sluggish... not that I'm done experimenting. :wink:... am going with a couple of gs of lead just @ 10 and 2 next, see how that grabs me (I'm after a bit more oomph on serve and 2hbh.)

R.
 
baseline_monster

baseline_monster

Professional
Yeah I just sold mine and sold the bag to Meaghan, great sticks. I've got to add 20g to my new Volkls, going to be a nights work as I've got 4 of them and need some electronic scales! I would try some lead at 10 and 2 on the PST mate, would give great plough and they already have a good sweat spot
 
P

Pioneer

Professional
Ross K, here's a picture of Safin that shows what his lead at 3&9 looked like in his early career:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/1081633.jpg

That's 1/4 inch lead tape covering 13 mains. I have the same deal and it's 14 grams. So I guess he has 14 grams at 3&9. Keep in mind that if you're trying to match your racquet to Safin's you can't just put 14g at the shoulders because his racquet initially weighs much less that the commercially available prestige mids.

Here is a picture of his lead at 12:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/108/pro110584maratsafinkustam4.jpg

seems like it's 1/4 inch lead tape all the way from 10 to 2. My guess is that it's about 10g.

I believe he counterbalances with silicone in the handle (that's what I read some time in the past on a safin-dedicated website). I don't know how much weight a fully filled handle with silicone would add but my best guess is 20-30g.

In his later paintjobs you don't see any lead because it's all under the bumper.
 
R

Ross K

Legend
Pioneer,

Many thanks for great posts/details re Safin's mods. Although I'm not attempting to copy his set up (that said, a 'Safin light' set up could be worth me looking at?) - I am experimenting with lead etc on the Prestige mid for more 2hbh/serve oomph (presently about 3 g @ 10 and 2 and leather and OG)...

Anyhow, I just find all this kind of thing interesting... cheers again!

R.
 
vsbabolat

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Ross,
relative to where and how much weight is added to Safin's frames really is not comparable to your frames. Because if you strip all of the lead and silicone out of his frames you would end up with a a frame that is 10.0-10.5oz (with pallet, butt-cap, grip and grommets on) while your frame is about 11.5oz unstrung before you started adding weight. What you should be interested in is what Safin's frames spec out in the end.

Just trying to help you out.
 
baseline_monster

baseline_monster

Professional
vsbabolat said:
Ross,
relative to where and how much weight is added to Safin's frames really is not comparable to your frames. Because if you strip all of the lead and silicone out of his frames you would end up with a a frame that is 10.0-10.5oz (with pallet, butt-cap, grip and grommets on) while your frame is about 11.5oz unstrung before you started adding weight. What you should be interested in is what Safin's frames spec out in the end.

Just trying to help you out.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the players stock come ultra light right? So if you want the same specs you need his final SW, balance and static weight then match yours to that
 
Jaewonnie

Jaewonnie

Professional
vsbabolat said:
On Safins Frames his racquets start out much lighter than the retail frames. So knowing how much lead and where is not going to help you at all. What you want to know is what the end result is.

According to HDtennis Safin is at:
Weight: 353g
Balance: 32cm
SW: 347
Grip: 4 1/2
Click to expand...

Hmm compared to a retail prestige thats not heavy customization at all. Thats about close to a retail prestige with a leather grip and overgrip isnt it?
 
P

Pioneer

Professional
Jaewonnie said:
Hmm compared to a retail prestige thats not heavy customization at all. Thats about close to a retail prestige with a leather grip and overgrip isnt it?
Click to expand...

What if those are unstrung specs?

PS: In a thread here that I can't find I read that thomas martinez said that Safin's swingweight was always around 335 unstrung, which would be about 360 strung.
 
vsbabolat

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Jaewonnie said:
Hmm compared to a retail prestige thats not heavy customization at all. Thats about close to a retail prestige with a leather grip and overgrip isnt it?
Click to expand...

You have to remember that his frames start out much lighter than a stock retail frame.
 
vsbabolat

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^You are correct that Safin is not far from Stock

According to Thomas the unstrung specs of Safin's frames are:
Weight:336g
Balance:31.2cm
Swing Weight:335
 
Last edited:
P

Pioneer

Professional
vsbabolat said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^You are correct that Safin is not far from Stock

According to Thomas the unstrung specs of Safin's frames are:
Weight:336g
Balance:31.2cm
Swing Weight:335
Click to expand...

So if we string this with big banger original 16 gauge we got something like 355g, 32cm, 360 kgxcm2. I'm curious what the stock swingweight of the prestige classic 600 was, I know the LM prestige mid was in the 340s
 
vsbabolat

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Pioneer said:
So if we string this with big banger original 16 gauge we got something like 355g, 32cm, 360 kgxcm2. I'm curious what the stock swingweight of the prestige classic 600 was, I know the LM prestige mid was in the 340s
Click to expand...

Prestige Classic 600 SW was 333 strung according to TW.
 
P

Pioneer

Professional
guys, I plugged the unstrung specs into the learning center and assumed a stringbed weight of 15g with a center of mass 53cm from the buttcap. Here's the result:

351g
31.94 cm (from an initial 31cm because the tool only accepts natural numbers, but add in an overgrip to the unstrung specs and it's exactly 32cm strung)
362.73 kgxcm^2

Slap in an overgrip and the weight's right about 355g. So the static weight and balance are very similar to the PC600 but the SW is some 30 points higher
 
R

Ross K

Legend
Guts,

Interesting stuff... and just to reiterate:

Ross K said:
Pioneer,

Many thanks for great posts/details re Safin's mods. Although I'm not attempting to copy his set up (that said, a 'Safin light' set up could be worth me looking at?) - I am experimenting with lead etc on the Prestige mid for more 2hbh/serve oomph (presently about 3 g @ 10 and 2 and leather and OG)...

Anyhow, I just find all this kind of thing interesting... cheers again!

R.
Click to expand...

BTW, Pioneer has I think largely answered my qsn by showing pics of where Safin had lead on his frames...
 
P

Pioneer

Professional
Ross K said:
Pioneer,

Many thanks for great posts/details re Safin's mods. Although I'm not attempting to copy his set up (that said, a 'Safin light' set up could be worth me looking at?) - I am experimenting with lead etc on the Prestige mid for more 2hbh/serve oomph (presently about 3 g @ 10 and 2 and leather and OG)...

Anyhow, I just find all this kind of thing interesting... cheers again!

R.
Click to expand...

Oh well I am :D

Although a slight miscalculation is throwing me off currently. When I have my racquet uncustomized it's SW is 315. Then when I punch in the exact specs and setup in the USRSA (14g with center of mass 54cm, 6g with center of mass 67.5cm) I get a SW of 363. Then when I use the TWU tool "Do-It-Yourself Swingweight" I get between 350-355. Maybe it's just due to random errors in the process, dunno, but I'm quite close to the "Safin setup"
 
R

Ross K

Legend
Pioneer said:
Oh well I am :D

Although a slight miscalculation is throwing me off currently. When I have my racquet uncustomized it's SW is 315. Then when I punch in the exact specs and setup in the USRSA (14g with center of mass 54cm, 6g with center of mass 67.5cm) I get a SW of 363. Then when I use the TWU tool "Do-It-Yourself Swingweight" I get between 350-355. Maybe it's just due to random errors in the process, dunno, but I'm quite close to the "Safin setup"
Click to expand...

Pioneer,

Tried to email you but your profile won't allow it, so is it possible you could email me your email address only I have a few follow up/related qsns.

Thanks,

R.

rossrohan@yahoo.com
 
R

Ross K

Legend
Courtesy of PurePrestige's recent post:

... for Safin, Greg Raven posted some older specs that he had.
353grams weight
32cm balance
347 swingweight
4 1/2 grip size

Last I knew for his strings was full Luxilon BB Orig. at 29/28 I believe.
Last known lead tape locations...a few years back he had even sized layers at 3, 9, and 12 oclock. Since then it's all hidden under the bumpers. Way back in the day he always used to have lead at 3&9 visible.
Click to expand...

R.
 
mozzer

mozzer

Hall of Fame
Ooft 62/64! I used that but with SPPP 1.18, hardly BB Orig though! Must swing like a club to use that so tight!
 
klementine

klementine

Hall of Fame
^Prestige Mid.

If you want the closest feel to safin's pro-stock .1's or 'ol p10's, I would suggest hunting down some readily available MicroGel Prestige Mids.

My experience is they come in lighter than the youteks, I've measured many that were 315grams unstrung. Wrap 10gr of lead all the way around the top half of the hoop and add 9grams of silicone under the cap, so when og is added it will balance out perfectly.

The end specs will be somewhere in the range of 355-358grams (depending on string), 350+sw and anywhere between 7-8pts. HL.
 
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