Diary of a Racketaholic

Btw, that was post #1000 in your awesome thread Ross. Might be an omen!

Guys,

Btw, that was post #1000 in your awesome thread Ross

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Great stuff eh? But it's down to all you fellow-racketaholics of course!! Thanks to all of you for your tireless postings/ruminations/bits of nonsense, etc... can we reach 1000 more?


Update.

Today's lengthy 3 setter, a few small sessions this week, etc, revealed to me something you've all been saying for a few weeks... give it a bit of time and you'll be stepping away from that Swirly PC+ soon enough... that time has now arrived.:wink:

Basically, I have no other option but admit I'm returning to looking at what have been my personal fave frames of the last year - the APD, TF V02 and TGK/PP... on today's evidence (and this kind of supports all the advice Power Player has given me from the off over the last year, and backs up PED's sage words of wisdom to me over many a moon), the frame that's out in the lead is... the APD.

More later. Just have to pretend to do some work before the long Easter break begins... oh yeeees!


R

I think that APD could be the way to go from your posts. The reason you stray is because it does not have the feel of other racquets you lust for. But, if you are hitting clean and winning matches, that feels pretty good too.

Ross should go Yonex....lol.

Just kidding!! maybe......

Ross K said:

Q for all you racketahoilcs...

Do you BELIEVE in your racket?!...

My esteemed fellow TTer and Pure Control connoiseur McLovin made me think when he replied/told me recently about playing in a wood racket tournament, and using a Butch Bucholz frame, playing and beating some 4.5/5.0's in the final... "For me, it was just believing the ball would come in, and then I started hitting all my normal shots. I guess what I'm saying is, once you believe in the stick, you can do just about anything...within reason. "

This morning, guys, as I hit the courts for the first time properly in a week, I'm going with McLovin here... I'm with The Monkees on this one... I've seen the light!... 'I'm a believer!"

R

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im guessing that you didnt quite believe enough??

Did you get overrun with the pc+ this week. What's happened Ross?

On a lighter note im very happy being an ex racketaholic. Played tonight won 6-0 6-3. My bc20 has everything any decent player could want in a racket, its that good!

Know how you know you're a racquetholic? You stop posting out of shame. SHAME.

I cleaned house (and still have a bit more to go) these past couple of weeks, getting rid of some of the frames I'd stockpiled: for instance, a K90 (which I always said I'd keep around, just for those days when I wanted to pull out the ol' classic shotgun, but in the end I just wasn't using it); Donnay Dark Red, which I was enamored by initially but never got wholly comfortable with (still have a new one trying to unload); Dunlop 200 Lite (see Donnay). And like I said, I still have more frames to get rid of.

But suddenly, the paypal account was fat. And curiosity about one particular frame finally overwhelmed me. I buckled. I hovered and then clicked, making the purchase. I added this -- "?", let's call it -- into my new permanent testing rotation, which also includes a Prestige Mid (which I've played for most of the last year), the PK Black Ace Mid, which is a frame so sweet, real butter actually oozes out of the handle sometimes); and the Head IG Speed 16x19, which I received in a trade after loving it so much demoing.

And now, I'm left with four frames, all of which I absolutely adore for different reasons. But in the last few days since it arrived, the ? has stood out more so than the rest, and last night, it took me all the way through a 3-6, 7-5, 7-5 victory that was probably one of the best matches I've ever played, and against my league nemesis, no less. And I never wavered, sticking to the one frame throughout without going to the bag to try something else, which has been my unfortunate habit in the last year.

The ?, I'm afraid, is Meaghan's very prized BC20. It's special. Feel is spectacularly solid. Pockets the ball like a dream. Depth is so easy. Was absolutely NOT what I expected a 40-something flex to feel like (it really does have to be hit with to be understood; now I get it). It truly feels like an older frame, a Pro Staff or even a woodie, more so than anything I can compare it to today. The feel is full and solid, and I have to compliment Vantage on creating something like this to add to their already stellar custom frames. After demoing several Donnays and buying the Dark Red, in terms of the specialty brands, Vantage kills Donnay, in my opinion, in terms of feel. The frames they produce just feel so good, so solid, and they thump the tennis ball.

So, onward I go, four different frames, all of them special, with the BC20 now the top dog in the mix, I think. Last night, once I settled in after a loose first set, I was crushing my flat heaters, the kickers were jumping, and on the ground my backhand was getting deep just about every shot, my touch/drop shots were like Creamsicles and I floated not a single slice -- they all stayed low and driving. I even hit a backhand slice winner down-the-line, a winner because it just stayed so low and the guy swung and missed on the run.

The only thing I'll be looking to get used to and corral in the coming weeks is getting used to the 16x19 pattern. Even though I'm a spinny player, I've always enjoyed the precision of the 18x20 patterns -- it's almost an antidote to the spinniness of my shots, drives them a bit flatter and through the court more -- and with the BC20 I'll be looking to see if I can drive the ball to specific spots with the precision I'm used to with the Prestige and, more recently, the Black Ace. Maybe balance adjustments with lead and such will help me find the perfect groove, and end this search, once and for all.

We'll see.

Nothing to be ashamed of..even with these amazing prestiges I have, I am still curious about the black ace. Of course, I have some lingering wrist problems, so sometimes the PC600 is the only stick that that gives me a nice twinge free hit.

Black Ace is definitely super arm friendly, but what I love about its arm friendliness is that the frame doesn't seem to flex in the way a Volkl does, where you feel it bend so much. I hate noodles like that personally, even if I can appreciate what those frames can do performance wise. The Black Ace is more comfy/arm friendly to me than the Youtek Prestige, but it's similarly solid on the hit in that the frame is one solid piece that doesn't overly flex in the throat or the hoop. So yeah, still not giving up on it, as there's just too much to like. But right now this BC20 has my full attention.

Yeah, I have never been that into volkls..the grip even bugs me as well.

ry,

Ross should go Yonex....lol

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I've checked and played a whole of frames across the brands over the years, but TBH I kind of consider myself to be either a Babolat or Head man. Silly, I know, but on balance they do seem to be the 2 I've most been drawn to or whatever.


Meags,

im guessing that you didnt quite believe enough??

Did you get overrun with the pc+ this week. What's happened Ross?

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LOL - I did believe, only it was the APD I was believing in! :wink:

Well, for one thing, I had a new lead set up in the APD, and having tried a lot of these to mixed results previously, today's instantly felt pretty damn good. For another thing, in the mini-sessions this week, and then today's biggie (on a hot, hot day), I became increasingly aware of the heft - the effort involved in remaining fluent with that 12.3 static/350 SW. And thirdly, certainly with the APD I'm hitting a similar ball but in an easier fashion... no, it doesn't have the unique Swirly, crushing, crunching, lush feel and touch etc (and we all know I can't say 'no' to frames with that ), but in the final analysis, it's achieving the same ends, but in a less demanding way. And for my game, the kind of ball I like to hit (spin-laden and heavy), for the added assistance it provides defensively (ie, turning defence into attack instantly), etc, well, that's about the nub of it... just don't wave a standard size PC Swirly under my nose any time soon!:grin:

R

When the paypal is fat, no frame is safe...

Fed Kennedy said:

When the paypal is fat, no frame is safe...

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That's Confucius, right?

JGads said:

The ?, I'm afraid, is Meaghan's very prized BC20. It's special. Feel is spectacularly solid. Pockets the ball like a dream. Depth is so easy. Was absolutely NOT what I expected a 40-something flex to feel like (it really does have to be hit with to be understood; now I get it). It truly feels like an older frame, a Pro Staff or even a woodie, more so than anything I can compare it to today. The feel is full and solid, and I have to compliment Vantage on creating something like this to add to their already stellar custom frames. After demoing several Donnays and buying the Dark Red, in terms of the specialty brands, Vantage kills Donnay, in my opinion, in terms of feel. The frames they produce just feel so good, so solid, and they thump the tennis ball.

So, onward I go, four different frames, all of them special, with the BC20 now the top dog in the mix, I think. Last night, once I settled in after a loose first set, I was crushing my flat heaters, the kickers were jumping, and on the ground my backhand was getting deep just about every shot, my touch/drop shots were like Creamsicles and I floated not a single slice -- they all stayed low and driving. I even hit a backhand slice winner down-the-line, a winner because it just stayed so low and the guy swung and missed on the run.

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Interesting to read. Some of the UKRHs (Meaghan, most visibly) have been championing this and singing its praises for a while. FWIW, I found the older Vantage frames (the 221) to be superb and everything they are cracked up to be.. excellent quality build, crispier than crisp, lowish power, great control... keep us up-dated.

Q. If you could compare it to a modern frame, what comes to mind?

R

Ross K said:

Interesting to read. Some of the UKRHs (Meaghan, most visibly) have been championing this and singing its praises for a while. FWIW, I found the older Vantage frames (the 221) to be superb and everything they are cracked up to be.. excellent quality build, crispier than crisp, lowish power, great control... keep us up-dated.

Q. If you could compare it to a modern frame, what comes to mind?

R

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That's kind of what I mean - I was trying to think of something and I was at a loss. Maybe this is blasphemy, as it's so revered and maybe I'm off, but from my own recollection of having hit with it for kicks for a couple weeks about a year ago, the venerable PS85 is what it probably FEELS SOMEWHAT - and I mean somewhat - closely to, though it's not quite as point-and-shoot responsive in the control department. The way the ball REACTS is more so kind of 6.1 95ish, but in a lighter form (which also probably means a touch less plow if I were to compare side to side, but just a touch). The ball shoots easily. The 'recoil' effect that's been discussed, it's kind of a mini catapult that - closest I can think of, here - is kinda sorta like Wilson's PWS system that, to me, really makes the sweet spot a real SWEET spot in that the ball just shoots off the frame with a lot of power when you want it to. Problem with the 6.1 95 has always been the weight, though. This one, the ball does similar things - easy power and depth, killer slices, fantastic oomph on serves, etc - is very 6.1 95ish but in a lighter package. So the 'recoil' effect, to me it's more of a sweeter sweet spot (pocketing, ball then just JUMPS off the frame) that you get with the Wilson PWS system.

But even that description, I'm not COMPLETELY sold on even myself. It's just the CLOSEST I can think of to describe. With the 'recoil' term thrown about and the super low flex -- with that I anticipated a super soft feeling frame that I would potentially hate, since I veer more towards stiffness and solidity more so than soft and flexiness. But this is just kind of a weird, different animal, but in a very good way. Has the pretty raw, wholly solid feel of an older racquet but seems to be made more for the modern game.

Hi Ross,

Like you since coming back to tennis I've tried various frames, Babolat's (PD Team, PD 107, Pure Storm), Head (various Radicals, Extreme) & Yonex (RDS001/003). Throw in the the odd Wilson ncode, Prince O3 Tour and that just about covers it. I've always returned to the APD, with luck I've managed to hunt down 2 APD originals but I always wonder if there's something that is similar to the APD and more.

This afternoon I shall be trying the new Pure Storm Team and Yonex VCore 100s with a bit of luck if the owner of those happens to be playing. The VCore is the one I'm really intrigued by after reading feedback on it, I like the sound of a lighter swingweight.

I guess I just like trying new and different rackets. lol!

Definitely going to track down a Black Ace since it is so close to the Prestige frame. Anything I can do to keep my wrist healthy is a plus. What I am going to do is basically hit with the BA for a bit and see how it goes. If I like how it is set up, I will have the TGK matched to it, and keep the PC600 as well. I swear the PC600 and Black Ace have to be close in spec, just from looking at it. It seems like the BA may just be the modern equivalent.

The retail youtek is not really that similar to the PC600 in feel..it is crisper and brassier, but it does have that killer sweetspot feel that every prestige has that I own. It just feels stiffer, and there is no real way around it.

Regardless if you own the youtek, don't overspend on a tgk or Pc600 because while you will notice a difference, it is not worth spending $300 for it.

^^
Used one just popped up in the FS section, PP.

Ross,

I was mostly being facetious with the Yonex reference. Although I'm curious because I have seen a few players here locally who formerly used the APDC switching over to the V-Core series. They claimed that it had more feel but still retained everything from the APD that they loved (power, spin, etc).

I myself almost went Yonex back in the day but was deterred by a complete lack of what I wanted. It still amazes me that they offer nothing with an 18x20 pattern or a nice thin beam.

Anyways, I will continue religiously reading this thread to see where your racquet journey leads you. And maybe throw in a recommendation here and there!!

JGads said:

That's kind of what I mean - I was trying to think of something and I was at a loss. Maybe this is blasphemy, as it's so revered and maybe I'm off, but from my own recollection of having hit with it for kicks for a couple weeks about a year ago, the venerable PS85 is what it probably FEELS SOMEWHAT - and I mean somewhat - closely to, though it's not quite as point-and-shoot responsive in the control department. The way the ball REACTS is more so kind of 6.1 95ish, but in a lighter form (which also probably means a touch less plow if I were to compare side to side, but just a touch). The ball shoots easily. The 'recoil' effect that's been discussed, it's kind of a mini catapult that - closest I can think of, here - is kinda sorta like Wilson's PWS system that, to me, really makes the sweet spot a real SWEET spot in that the ball just shoots off the frame with a lot of power when you want it to. Problem with the 6.1 95 has always been the weight, though. This one, the ball does similar things - easy power and depth, killer slices, fantastic oomph on serves, etc - is very 6.1 95ish but in a lighter package. So the 'recoil' effect, to me it's more of a sweeter sweet spot (pocketing, ball then just JUMPS off the frame) that you get with the Wilson PWS system.

But even that description, I'm not COMPLETELY sold on even myself. It's just the CLOSEST I can think of to describe. With the 'recoil' term thrown about and the super low flex -- with that I anticipated a super soft feeling frame that I would potentially hate, since I veer more towards stiffness and solidity more so than soft and flexiness. But this is just kind of a weird, different animal, but in a very good way. Has the pretty raw, wholly solid feel of an older racquet but seems to be made more for the modern game.

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Good stuff and excellent review JG. Never hit with the 85 but i found the pt600 and Austrian graphite pro and comfort edge very similar in feel. Plush but solid with similar ball pocketing and on tap power.
I always preferred a closed pattern too but the last 6months i have not missed it with this racket. I tried my old TT rad the other week and the lower trajectory etc freaked me out a bit.

Totally hooked on this racket now. Not touched another in a long time and completely happy with every aspect. Added to that my string choice and my level of play has gone from strength to strength.

Cant wait for TW to take these as they Will soon be flying off the shelves. They are that good!

Meaghan said:

Good stuff and excellent review JG. Never hit with the 85 but i found the pt600 and Austrian graphite pro and comfort edge very similar in feel. Plush but solid with similar ball pocketing and on tap power.
I always preferred a closed pattern too but the last 6months i have not missed it with this racket. I tried my old TT rad the other week and the lower trajectory etc freaked me out a bit.

Totally hooked on this racket now. Not touched another in a long time and completely happy with every aspect. Added to that my string choice and my level of play has gone from strength to strength.

Cant wait for TW to take these as they Will soon be flying off the shelves. They are that good!

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Agree with the 'flying off the shelves' likelihood. It's a special stick. Was on the phone with TW about something else and asked them about the BC20. Was told there is no plan to do so at the moment, that they are still essentially checking it out but definitely nothing is imminent.

Ross, you'd better add the Volkl Organix 8 to your demo list. You'll probably want to add some lead, but it plays like an APD only a little softer and not quite as much spin.

retlod said:

Ross, you'd better add the Volkl Organix 8 to your demo list. You'll probably want to add some lead, but it plays like an APD only a little softer and not quite as much spin.

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Thanks, but if I can help it, I'll just stick to the PP, APD and TF. That's proved enough of a nightmare choosing between these 3. Anyhow, hoping with the same string and a bit of modding, I'll be better placed now to gauge my preferences.... as I said though, just don't place a standard Swirly near me any time soon!

R

Gads, good call.

I am probably going to buy that Black Ace, but I can't justify having 4 sticks right now, so in true TWtard form, will probably sell my retail Prestige just so I don't go broke buying racquets. I use the TGK so much that I don't really need the retail as well as 2 others right now. Kind of a tough call, but the retail is the stiffest and also heaviest, so that why I am leaning towards selling it. I will see what kind of action it gets. I'm kind of torn, because I love the racquet, but I can always buy another one if the Black Ace does not deliver for me as my backup. Pretty much am just paranoid about the wrist and going as flexy as possible. Regardless, they should all play the same, and I am about convinced the black ace is tweaked prestige 600 mid.

whats up racquet holics, im one by thought, not bank account. lol. I'm at a crossroad and I can't seem to follow the devil in any which path. I bought PSTGT+ awesome sticks, have them for about 3-4 months now, only problem is now my elbow and arm are shredded. Unfortunately I have to move away from this stick, I don't understand it though, it has a plush feel, and it didn't bother me for 2 months. I've tried everything, even synthetic gut but still my arm cries.

My dilemma here, and maybe I'm not alone on this one...is the constant battle between myself of loving mid sized frames, but knowing their obsolete for tennis today. If you look at the ATP you have 1 prominent figure using a mid, Federer, almost no one else, except Robin Haase who uses a prestige mid. There is no denying the performance of the tweener for me, the forgiveness and ability to return serve with some authority really help. With the mid (prestige of course, been a user since the beginning of my tennis) I feel I have to be on the gas, all the time. No allowance for defensive tennis, other than a sweet slice.

I'm also torn between open and closed string patterns, Open pattern are awesome for my serve and spin, but I feel if I slow down the racquet head speed just a bit on defensive plays the ball is a launcher! it just flies off the string bed, leaving you un-confident in your stroking abilities. With the closed pattern I feel I have way more control and more options YET I don't get the same spin/heavy ball that eats players backhands alive, and the trajectory is lame.

I honestly don't know what to play with anymore, i'm at a complete lost, I feel like if your good, you should be able to make a mid work, but its not competitively viable according to the best players in the world. What are the most used frames on tour? Radical/Prestiges and Wilson 95's? Yes? maybe i'm looking for celestial guidance, it doesn't help that these racquet companies keep coming out with promising racquets every 2 years with new paintjobs making your racquet feel less of a .. racquet. I know the technology is BS, but damn they run a good scheme.

The only thing i've definitely learned through all my trials and tribulations is I enjoy extended length racquets a hell of a lot more, my serve would agree. Whatever frame I end up with, be it a prestige pro or a babolat pure drive TennisWarehouse will be customizing my sticks to 27.5 in.

I really want to commit to one racquet, for the rest of my life, seriously, I am in the honest belief that once you have your racquet, your game can actually break out of its shell, you can...have full confidence in your racquet and just play your game. I don't want to be a racquetholic, do I sound like a addict pleading for help? maybe. I read this thread with confidence, I'd like to thank you all for constantly posting about racquets, but I also hate you bunch for giving my imagination food for thought.

Ideally I would like the PSTGT in a less log like feel, that thing is sluggish, seriously. I'm thinking prestige pro (extended) now...I remember playing out of my mind when I had my short vacation with the i.prestige mp, too bad it only lasted a week, it cracked on the throat from deterioration over time (previous owner never cared for it). What comes as close as possible to the I.prestige folks...save me!

Maybe I'm crazy. Damn. This. Disease.

Mids are completely viable for about any level of tennis outside of the top 250 in the world, and some of them still use them.

If you are worried about that, you are thinking too much. The only way to know if mids work for you is to demo one. I like 95s too, there just realy are no rules. The bigger the racquet face, the more you lose, just like the smaller head as well.

If you need more control, better serve, then mids are awesome. That is what I need. If you are more focused on longer rallies, heavy top and not as worried about the big serve, then mid plusses like the APD are an option. You can still serve big with tweeners obviously, since Roddick is the king and uses one. But in general, the smaller headsize is going to help you out more there.

It's always a hunt, because your game evolves over time and your needs may change, but you have to figure out you need. It really does not matter what the pros are using because a pro could come out of nowhere using a mid, and everyone on TW will start talking about how great they are again.

Recon said:

My dilemma here, and maybe I'm not alone on this one...is the constant battle between myself of loving mid sized frames, but knowing their obsolete for tennis today. If you look at the ATP you have 1 prominent figure using a mid, Federer, almost no one else, except Robin Haase who uses a prestige mid.

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Most pros use racquets they grew up playing with or a racquet that’s made by the manufacturer which is willing to pay them the most money. Now a days that money is probably fairly substantial even for those not named Federer or Nadal. Back in the 90s you had plenty of guys who used blacked out frames and forgoed sponsorship entirely so they could use what they liked best. Nobody in this generation of players grew up playing with PS85s or PC600. If they did, I bet tons would be still using them or similar updates to them. Look at Federer as an example. He uses a mid because he’s probably one of the few that grew up and turned pro using one. It has nothing to do with your conclusion that mids aren’t for modern tennis. That’s just rubbish.

Mids feel great, but I wasn't willing to get beaten by players who I was better than because it felt nice. There are tweener-ish racquets out there that feel good too, though. *cough* Ti.Radical *cough*

I really wish I could be as confident as you guys in that assumption, but i'm a tournament player, I can tell you I lost a lot more with a racquet I loved (prestige mid) then with the babolat. My coach has spoken to a fair amount of atp players, lower ranked (200-350) to be precise some coming from the same places we train, grew up with prestige mid, and now they have changed to tweener type frames. The simple physics coincide with the modern game, more sq inches, more room for heavy topspin strokes, on the slow courts of today's modern game. Trust me, I want to believe you guys, but I've seen first hand the performance these racquets are giving over the mids.

pyrokid said:

Mids feel great, but I wasn't willing to get beaten by players who I was better than because it felt nice. There are tweener-ish racquets out there that feel good too, though. *cough* Ti.Radical *cough*

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I feel the same bro. Even though the Radical is 94sq in I believe. & I agree on the Ti.radical, my friend has 5 and he wont part with them. He doesn't even think about all these newer frames.

Recon said:

I really wish I could be as confident as you guys in that assumption, but i'm a tournament player, I can tell you I lost a lot more with a racquet I loved (prestige mid) then with the babolat. My coach has spoken to a fair amount of atp players, lower ranked (200-350) to be precise some coming from the same places we train, grew up with prestige mid, and now they have changed to tweener type frames. The simple physics coincide with the modern game, more sq inches, more room for heavy topspin strokes, on the slow courts of today's modern game. Trust me, I want to believe you guys, but I've seen first hand the performance these racquets are giving over the mids.

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Many pros now are in their early 20s. That would put them at 10 years old when Federer played Sampras. They were babies in the mid 90s. I highly doubt any of them started out using a PS85 or a PC600. New racquets may work well for modern strokes, but you don’t need modern stroke to win. If Safin was in his early 20s he’d still be wrecking face with his shots and his PC600. So basically I’d say use the racquet that suits your game. If you have a game like Djokovic or Nadal where it looks like you’re swinging a bullwhip instead of a tennis racquet, then go for it. If you have a more classic game like Safin, Federer or Petros then I don’t see how using a mid would hamper that.

Devilito said:

Many pros now are in their early 20s. That would put them at 10 years old when Federer played Sampras. They were babies in the mid 90s. I highly doubt any of them started out using a PS85 or a PC600. New racquets may work well for modern strokes, but you don’t need modern stroke to win. If Safin was in his early 20s he’d still be wrecking face with his shots and his PC600. So basically I’d say use the racquet that suits your game. If you have a game like Djokovic or Nadal where it looks like you’re swinging a bullwhip instead of a tennis racquet, then go for it. If you have a more classic game like Safin, Federer or Petros then I don’t see how using a mid would hamper that.

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Safin is a 6'6 muscle monster. I'm no where near his physicality or height. No one in the top 20 or any prospects are using mids, I would think for a reason. Theres no benefit to it. Even someone like Raonic who is classical, big serve, big forehand get to the net is not using a pc600. Look my intentions weren't to turn this thread into a mid/tweener war. I was just posting my thoughts on racquetholicism and my inner troubles with the love of mids, and the undeniable performance of tweeners. Ideally inbetween is a 95, and I think this is where I will go. Thank you Devilito. Btw nice game, saw your youtube vids, sick backhand.

In my head I've narrowed it down to either youtek radical which was amazing when I tried it (will be adding caps, and extending If i decide to go with this), or prestige pro, just a question of open/closed pattern and stiffness. The pro is closer to the I.Prestige in stiffness with that open pattern I like, but the radical had this undeniable factor, it just does everything well, you really can't look down and blame the stick.

Recon said:

I feel the same bro. Even though the Radical is 94sq in I believe. & I agree on the Ti.radical, my friend has 5 and he wont part with them. He doesn't even think about all these newer frames.

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I thought the Rad was around 94.5, but I'm not positive.

I switched to them a while ago and feel the same way. Don't feel like I'll ever need to switch again. It's been almost a year with my babies now, and I couldn't be more pleased.

Recon said:

Safin is a 6'6 muscle monster. I'm no where near his physicality or height. No one in the top 20 or any prospects are using mids, I would think for a reason. Theres no benefit to it. Even someone like Raonic who is classical, big serve, big forehand get to the net is not using a pc600. Look my intentions weren't to turn this thread into a mid/tweener war. I was just posting my thoughts on racquetholicism and my inner troubles with the love of mids, and the undeniable performance of tweeners. Ideally inbetween is a 95, and I think this is where I will go. Thank you Devilito. Btw nice game, saw your youtube vids, sick backhand.

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heh, not a war, just a friendly discussion. Thanks for the compliment and good luck with your racquet hunt. Too bad the PST didn’t work out for you. You’d think it would be similar to what you’d be after. In terms of improving your game, don’t neglect off court work as well. Anyone that thinks a 12oz racquet is heavy or sluggish (not singling you out) really needs to do some weights and add strength and I’m not being facetious either. However, the Prestige MP is also nice so definitely give that a go.

Safin was a monster, which is why he used lead in his sticks and strung them real tight with full poly as well.

I actually lost more to people I should beat when I had a tweener because I made more UEs then with the mid. They never gave me the control I really look for. But like I have said, if I hit the point where I suddenly am hampered by the mid, then I will play a 95 and be fine with it. I'd probably check out the Pure Storm Ltd again or more likely get a Prestige MP. I hate the balance of the Radical MPs or I would seriously consider it. I think I am more of a Prestige guy.

The real test begins now when it gets super hot here. This is when I really know what I can handle. Some days out here you could have a 10oz Wilson Hammer and you cant play for crap due to the heat.

Recon,

1. I very largely agree with you re the mids debate, or certainly as it applies to me.

2. Your PP extended notion is instantly and quite horribly appealing!... why oh why oh why did you put that idea in my mind?!:roll:

R

Recon:

I'd like to pull out my pad, lick the tip of my pen and promptly write you a prescription to try out the ProKennex 7G. Haven't tried a load of extended frames in my time, but of the ones I've tried the 7G really stood out and everything you say you're looking for seems to point my mind to the 7G. Served spectacular and the feel was awesome. Also loved that it was more arm friendly (seems like you need that) than other extendeds, and the stringbed and flex really lent itself to a control-oriented response, about as much of a control oriented response as you can find in an extended. LOVED that frame (serves and backhands were sick) and would still be willing to pick it up on the cheap or as a trade, because it was so much fun. So I'd highly recommend that you give it a shot along with your other possibilities. Btw, the newer version of the 7G, the Ki 5X, didn't feel half as good to me as the 7G, but you can still demo the 7G through TW. And you wouldn't have to extend the frame yourself.

PP: if you don't get that Ace or don't want to sell that retail Prestige, keep my offer in mind. I'd LOVE to take a Classic or a TKG out for a short spin just to see (the 'slightly lighter and less brassy' description of your two special Prestiges intrigues me so) the difference. But of course, wishful thinking probably, but would be happy to send you one of my Aces for however long you need.

Everyone: I'm definitely jumping on the Tour Bite train that's been going traveling around here lately, picking up more and more passengers. What a great, crisp feeling string. I wonder if a full bed of it will tweak the elbow over time, though?

To all, a happy hitting week..

Power Player said:

Yeah, I have never been that into volkls..the grip even bugs me as well.

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Hey back off the Volkl hate !!!! Just kidding Before you right off the brand take a PB 10 Mid for demo. Buttery soft but not noodle like in any way. Not sure if you have ever tried out a Volkl before but the grip is very similar to the typical head pallet.

Yeah I hit with the lighter pb9..it felt nice..I dont know, it didnt really blow me away, but i know a few guys who use them at my club.

PB 10 is a different animal . I have demoed most of the Volkl/Becker line and had the same kind of response as you. Racquets are o.k but nothing that would blow me away. The PB 10 is a very different story. Very unique racquet IMO. If you have the chance to demo give it a go.

The summers down here are so brutal. It makes me appreciate the lighter TGK I have. I was getting pretty worn out this weekend, and just could not pull the trigger on grabbing my retail prestige out of the bag since it is .4 ozs heavier than my others (definitely lost out on the QC there).

For some reason it weighs 12.5 oz with no mods, 18 gauge string, OG and Dampener. Not a huge problem when I have energy, but enough of a problem to where I am pretty sure in order to free up spot in the bag, the decision to sell it for now is a wise one.

I'm real close to buying a black ace, but I like the prestiges so much..it almost makes more sense to try the MP, since it is lighter and balanced with that awesome prestige serve that has really changed my game. I finally started getting in a groove with my serve again with the prestige..figured out timing and toss issues I was having and started hitting some nice bombs with no effort. Interesting thing is that it seems to all click consistently with the lighter TGK the easiest.

Only bummer about the MP is it's 21mm, which is not a huge deal, but the beamtard in me weeps slightly. I love the Prestiges..freaking awesome sticks. It really is a pleasure to hit with these things. I was hurting bad today..it just started to get super hot here, but even feeling like I was going to pass out, I managed to hit a lot of really sick winners that were right on the lines. I could not see myself doing that with any other racquet. It pretty much made me realize I am a prestige guy and need to stay with what works.

When it gets hot in FL, it makes you question your decision to even walk onto the court. It is that brutal sometimes. I do get used to it, but I remember going through this last year and switching to a little less demanding stick that swung a hair lighter. I am thinking that could happen again, so I am going to try out the MP and will probably be good to go. I have no desire to go to full tweener land or anything like that. I want feel, control, a great serving stick and the ability to go full poly at 50#s. The Prestiges fulfill all of those requirements maybe better than any other racquet out there.

Power Player said:

The summers down here are so brutal. It makes me appreciate the lighter TGK I have. I was getting pretty worn out this weekend, and just could not pull the trigger on grabbing my retail prestige out of the bag since it is .4 ozs heavier than my others (definitely lost out on the QC there).

For some reason it weighs 12.5 oz with no mods, 18 gauge string, OG and Dampener. Not a huge problem when I have energy, but enough of a problem to where I am pretty sure in order to free up spot in the bag, the decision to sell it for now is a wise one.

I'm real close to buying a black ace, but I like the prestiges so much..it almost makes more sense to try the MP, since it is lighter and balanced with that awesome prestige serve that has really changed my game. I finally started getting in a groove with my serve again with the prestige..figured out timing and toss issues I was having and started hitting some nice bombs with no effort. Interesting thing is that it seems to all click consistently with the lighter TGK the easiest.

Only bummer about the MP is it's 21mm, which is not a huge deal, but the beamtard in me weeps slightly. I love the Prestiges..freaking awesome sticks. It really is a pleasure to hit with these things. I was hurting bad today..it just started to get super hot here, but even feeling like I was going to pass out, I managed to hit a lot of really sick winners that were right on the lines. I could not see myself doing that with any other racquet. It pretty much made me realize I am a prestige guy and need to stay with what works.

When it gets hot in FL, it makes you question your decision to even walk onto the court. It is that brutal sometimes. I do get used to it, but I remember going through this last year and switching to a little less demanding stick that swung a hair lighter. I am thinking that could happen again, so I am going to try out the MP and will probably be good to go. I have no desire to go to full tweener land or anything like that. I want feel, control, a great serving stick and the ability to go full poly at 50#s. The Prestiges fulfill all of those requirements maybe better than any other racquet out there.

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Constantly switching sticks will affect the way you perceive a racquet. It’s always easier to swing a lighter racquet. If you keep switching sticks every practice you’re not going to develop the proper strength and muscle memory to play with a heavier stick. 12.5oz strung and gripped all in is NOT really a heavy stick. Sounds like a standard players frame that most pros would even add lead onto to make it heavier. If you like the way the prestige plays and the way it helps your game but in tough conditions it gets a little tough to use, why not work on your conditioning and strength instead of giving up on the racquet? Seems like you’re doing the opposite of what you should be doing and taking the easy way out

The problem is that I am really strong (been lifting hard the past 6 months, plus am just a muscular guy who has lifted all his life) and have good conditioning ..I have been running and playing a ton of tennis in addition to the lifting.

I agree with you about the 12.5..its not a major deal, but over the weeks I have had these sticks, I have used the TGK by far the most. I could use any of the 3 prestige mids I have in a match, since I have, and they are fine. For whatever reason, the TGK hits a heavier ball (i think it is the layup) and is specced out almost exactly the same as the prestige MP, except the MP is a little more head heavy at 7pts (which is what I like the most).

I really don't want to be buying pro stock sticks just to have a prestige that is a little lighter.

I definitely agree that a pro would put lead on their prestige, but most d1 college guys are rocking these things at stock weight and are killing it. In addition, the TGK I have was used in challengers at this lighter weight and it makes sens to me as to why. The racquet head speed I can get basically is getting me some real nice topspin shots that drop in at the last second. I really can lengthen the court with this thing, and it drives people crazy guessing if my shot is going to drop in or not.

I also hate doing what you said, which constantly switching sticks. I really am not a fan of it because while they are all prestiges, they do not spec out or feel the same. I knew this was part of the deal of getting these frames though, so I don't really regret it at all.

To really be a whiner, I can take this to another level of nitpicking, which is that for some reason my love with the leather grip seems to be hurting my hand. I have had this happen before, and it sucks because I prefer leather all day long. I seem to develop grip pain in the base are of my thumb. It has happened before when I went to leather grips and I have tired to ignore it, but the synthetic does not cause this pain. Anyone heard of this before?...maybe the leather is just harsher or something.

Finally, I am not going super light or anything. I am just really into a static weight of 345 after OG and damp and a SW right around 315 to 320 or so. It allows me to get a lot of racquet head speed so that 12oz stick moving like that really puts some nice action on the ball.

I swear every winter I play tennis and feel like I could buy a kps88 and be a beast. Then the humid Florida summer hits and it just sucks you dry so fast. I get used to it over time, but almost always go a little lighter. Finally wised up to the fact that I personally don't need a 330ish SW to hit heavy balls. That only took 2 years to figure out.

Power Player said:

stuff.

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Its fine you’re trying all these sticks and we all do that but you think you’ll eventually find something and stick to it? If you like the TGK maybe it’s worth investing in 3 sticks that are the same, selling everything else and just stick to that. Even though it’s more expensive, a tennis racquet can be used for a long time and doesn’t have to be replaced. So the initial cost is marginal over the long haul. You say you’re strong and in shape so maybe it’s not the weight but the layup and the balance of the stick that you prefer. If you go to a Prestige MP and a wider beam etc. you might as well just go back to your PST heh. Also I agree with you about the leather grip. I hate em and it almost bruises my palm. One thing that stronger guys tend to do is squeeze the handle tighter than they need to. Loosen up your grip or just go to a synthetic. Even Sampras switched to a synthetic at one stage.

Ok so I am not insane about the leather grip then..that is good.

I usually stick to myfavorite racquets for at least 6 months. I just had an insane urge to try a prestige..realized it was ideal for my strokes (I have a long swing) and now am just getting the right specced one.

You have to understand that my strokes are finally back to where they should be, and my serve is finally rounding into form. I am at the point where the 4.0 guys I used to lose to I can now beat and look good doing it. So with that happening, I learned what works for me. When I was hitting like this before I had a Prince 90 and then a Head Graphite Master (still have the Master BTW..it is a pretty sweet racquet, but I can't find grommets for it) and was a teenager player usta tournies.

So yeah, I think you will see me sticking with the prestiges, because they have made me a better, more consistent player. This is just some fine tuning, and no real big switching is going on anymore. Trust me, you have to feel this heat to understand what it can do to your will to play tennis sometimes.

Power Player said:

Ok so I am not insane about the leather grip then..that is good.

I usually stick to the racquets for at least 6 months. I just had an insane urge to try a prestige..realized it was ideal for my strokes (I have a long swing) and now am just getting the right specced one.

You have to understand that my strokes are finally back to where they should be, and my serve is finally rounding into form. I am at the point where the 4.0 guys I used to lose to I can now beat and look good doing it. So with that happening, I learned what works for me. When I was hitting like this before I had a Prince 90 and then a Head Graphite Master (still have the Master BTW..it is a pretty sweet racquet, but I can't find grommets for it) and was a teenager player usta tournies.

So yeah, I think you will see me sticking with the prestiges, because they have made me a better, more consistent player. This is just some fine tuning, and no real big switching is going on anymore. Trust me, you have to feel this heat to understand what it can do to your will to play tennis sometimes.

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i've played tennis in over 110 degree temperatures before were after a few games the water in my bottle was like tea. They gave you extra time between sets due to the heat. Oh wait, i was 16 years old then, no wonder i could handle that. Now adays? find an indoor court hehe. So anyway, why not just sell everything and fund like 2 more TGKs?

The bummer is that TGKs can be laid up multiple ways and there was only 1 available when I bought it. The layup makes the huge difference I think, it changes a lot. So while I could find another TGK 237.3 with some serious hunting, it would probably not have the same layup.

Regardless, I am selling sticks..having a little clearance going on because at the end of the day I only need 2 identical prestiges, because they are very good on strings. My worst case situation is I have a PC600 backing up my TGK. I can think of way worse problems to have in tennis .

Power Player said:

The bummer is that TGKs can be laid up multiple ways and there was only 1 available when I bought it. The layup makes the huge difference I think, it changes a lot. So while I could find another TGK 237.3 with some serious hunting, it would probably not have the same layup.

Regardless, I am selling sticks..having a little clearance going on because at the end of the day I only need 2 identical prestiges, because they are very good on strings. My worst case situation is I have a PC600 backing up my TGK. I can think of way worse problems to have in tennis .

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lol yeah i remember needing like 5 sticks all done up before a tournament back in the day when Syn Gut would last a couple hours before popping. Now with my Black Code strung at 40lbs. You couldn't break that if you played tennis with a brick. You definitely don’t need as many racquets as before.

JG,

Everyone: I'm definitely jumping on the Tour Bite train that's been going traveling around here lately, picking up more and more passengers. What a great, crisp feeling string. I wonder if a full bed of it will tweak the elbow over time, though?

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Yes, it's an awesome, really special string IMO, and BTW, no probs with it and elbow thus far. I've had it strung @ 52s, 50, and 48 lbs in the APD and PC+, and it seems to play even better for me the lower I go. Am getting my TF 320 and TGK PP from stringers today/tomorrow and both are coming back with Tour Bite stringjobs. I then really look forward to APD>Tec V02 320>PP tests/comparisons... yes, I've been here before, but I don't think I was thorough or patient enough though; I didn't really go down the modding up route, which can make a huge difference (and is a big reason I think I so liked the APD on Friday), and I didn't have them all strung with the same string before of course.


Power Player,

RE Leather grips, I've tried these a fair few times over the years and always it's the same outcome: too rough and uncomfortable feeling.


R

Power Player said:

T

For some reason it weighs 12.5 oz with no mods, 18 gauge string, OG and Dampener.

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With the dampener, that should be right on with the stock specs. We had 2 of them and in stock form, strung up, they were dead on 12.5 oz.

Regarding layup, not totally sure but all the 237.3's like yours should have the same layup. VS Bab of course would know the answer to that.