Rafa at it again.........

zagor

Bionic Poster
I'm defending it not because I agree with it, but because of precisely that kind of comments. Just how is it stupid and/or self serving?. I don't think anyone has explained this.

Bad timing I guess? He's been vocal about it in a year in which he got overtaken by Novak.

If he was saying that(and maybe he was, I honestly don't remember) in 2008 when he overtook Fed I guess people wouldn't be saying he was self serving/selfish even if they disagreed with it.

Anyway, nothing against Nadal personally (I don't know his exact reasons for asking this) but I hope that 2 year ranking system never gets voted, it would be bad for the game IMO.
 

rommil

Legend
I say drop Rafa's ranking to 200 so he can put in the very hard work with his warrior game and steely determination, so he can go to the top just in time for him to get injured and be protected by the very system he proposes. Give him the chance to try it out.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I say drop Rafa's ranking to 200 so he can put in the very hard work with his warrior game and steely determination, so he can go to the top just in time for him to get injured and be protected by the very system he proposes. Give him the chance to try it out.

You forgot humble fighting spirit, humour and illusion.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
The two year ranking wouldn't make it less difficult, would it?, since it'd make it harder to get there.

You misunderstand me. I'm saying that Nadal should recognise that it's supposed to be very hard to stay at the elite of the tennis world rankings, and that eventually, even the very best will fall down the rankings. The 2-year ranking would make it easier to stay at the top for longer, and that's wrong.
 

Crisstti

Legend
precisely. it would be harder to get there than it is now, and it'd be easier to stay there than it is now. the top players don't nearly have to work as hard to stay atop the rankings while the lower ranked players would need to work even harder to climb up the rankings.

Yeah, I see your point, but even the high ranked players want to climb higher (it's the whole purpose of the whole thing) and it would be harder for them too. For everyone, except for the player currently Nº 1, and that player isn't Rafa.
Plus, while it'd be somewhat harder to climb up the rankings, it surely wouldn't be THAT much harder?. As I understand it, the points from the current season would still count for more. Thinking about what Fed said, about players having a break though tournament... when a player has a break though tournament, it's called a "breakthough" because it's the first time such player does so well, not the only time. That tournament should be a reflection on the player's new found level, which he should keep and therefore climb up the rankings anyway.

People say players who suffer injuries are already protected, but didn't del Potro have to play Novak in the third round of a slam this year?. Rafa, with all the injuries he's had, has never had such a drastic fall in the rankings...

If anything, in any case, the lower ranked players would be even more perjudiced by getting seriously injured and falling in the rankings.

Bad timing I guess? He's been vocal about it in a year in which he got overtaken by Novak.

If he was saying that(and maybe he was, I honestly don't remember) in 2008 when he overtook Fed I guess people wouldn't be saying he was self serving/selfish even if they disagreed with it.

I think it would be more reasonable to suspect self serving intentions in the later case, since then he would be protecting his Nº 1 ranking, while now he would just make it harder for him get it back.

You misunderstand me. I'm saying that Nadal should recognise that it's supposed to be very hard to stay at the elite of the tennis world rankings, and that eventually, even the very best will fall down the rankings. The 2-year ranking would make it easier to stay at the top for longer, and that's wrong.

Well, it would make it easier... for a while. Eventually the rankings would reflect the player's level anyway.

I agree it's a negative aspect of it though. But it seems to me it's got also positives and that the issue deserves some serious discussion, not what's going on here.
 

Fate Archer

Hall of Fame
I'm defending it not because I agree with it, but because of precisely that kind of comments. Just how is it stupid and/or self serving?. I don't think anyone has explained this.

You misunderstand me. I'm saying that Nadal should recognise that it's supposed to be very hard to stay at the elite of the tennis world rankings, and that eventually, even the very best will fall down the rankings. The 2-year ranking would make it easier to stay at the top for longer, and that's wrong.

In addition to that, like Federer said, it would make it that much more difficult for a lesser ranked player to rise to the top positions, it would take multiple breakthroughs for them to climb the rankings.

That's why it's perceived as a self serving thing for Nadal to suggest that, because the main benefited would be the top ranked players, specially those inside the top 10. It doesn't help in the slightest that the only times that he mentioned such a ridiculous idea were from either when he was ranked or just lost his #1 position.

Also, it would make things stale, one of the most interesting aspects of the rankings is their volatility or how they change from time to time, giving room for players to immediately pursue better rankings or creating better opportunities for them to climb and seize positions.


Players already have plenty of protection in case they get injured, with the current system of protected rankings and Wildcard give aways. Anymore than that is just asking for too much.
 
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Crisstti

Legend
In addition to that, like Federer said, it would make it that much more difficult for a lesser ranked player to rise to the top positions, it would take multiple breakthroughs for them to climb the rankings.

That's why it's perceived as a self serving thing for Nadal to suggest that, because the main benefited would be the top ranked players, specially those inside the top 10. It doesn't help in the slightest that the only times that he mentioned such a ridiculous idea were from either when he was ranked or just lost his #1 position.

Also, it would make things stale, one of the most interesting aspects of the rankings is their volatility or how they change from time to time, giving room for players to immediately pursue better rankings or creating better opportunities for them to climb and seize positions.


Players already have plenty of protection in case they get injured, with the current system of procted rankings and Wildcards give aways. Anymore than that is just asking for too much.

It would make it more difficult for ALL players to climb up the rankings (other than the Nº 1 player).

There's the issue with the seedings with is not addressed now and which greatly perjudices players who've had serious injuries.

I agree though that it's fun how fast the rankings can move in the current system.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Basically Nadal is saying that he wants his good friend Novak Djokovic to still be #1 in 2013 if Djokovic defends ZERO of his points next year! :lol: :lol:
Djokovic is all for it I'm sure!
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Funny to see all the ****s getting jittery ahead of the AO season.:lol: What's the matter - nervous that Nadal is gonna win AO or the whole 2012 Gold Slam?:lol:
 

DragonBlaze

Hall of Fame
In addition to that, like Federer said, it would make it that much more difficult for a lesser ranked player to rise to the top positions, it would take multiple breakthroughs for them to climb the rankings.

That's why it's perceived as a self serving thing for Nadal to suggest that, because the main benefited would be the top ranked players, specially those inside the top 10. It doesn't help in the slightest that the only times that he mentioned such a ridiculous idea were from either when he was ranked or just lost his #1 position.

Also, it would make things stale, one of the most interesting aspects of the rankings is their volatility or how they change from time to time, giving room for players to immediately pursue better rankings or creating better opportunities for them to climb and seize positions.

Exactly. It would be utterly boring. Not only do you have to look after the players, but also one has to think about the audience. I cannot think of a single reason a 2 year ranking system would be good for the audience.

I honestly don't get why anyone would want points earned 2 years ago to reflect the rankings as of now! Especially in a sport such as tennis where players only have 10 to 15 good years of playing. The system can work in golf since they can play for MUCH longer, but in tennis, I don't think so.
 

Fate Archer

Hall of Fame
It would make it more difficult for ALL players to climb up the rankings (other than the Nº 1 player).

There's the issue with the seedings with is not addressed now and which greatly perjudices players who've had serious injuries.

I agree though that it's fun how fast the rankings can move in the current system.

You're still missing the point.

Of course, once a rule is set the rule applies for ALL players, but what was already brought up were some of the deeper implications of such a system, which again was covered by Fed when he said that in a system like that it would take something extraordinary for either of them (Federer, Nadal, Novak or even Murray) to lose their positions, and thus such a ranking would benefit them much more in the long run and prejudice the lesser ranked players who fight their way to claim better positions.

Such a system doesn't even deserve to be brought up, as there are special measures for dealing with falling rankings due to injuries, as already stated.
 

rommil

Legend
Kicking away the ladder after you've climbed up it.

Rafa shouldn't kick the ladder. He will start complaining of leg pain, then take MTOs.....


Rafa should spend his off season resting or improving his serve and backhand, do things he can control , have a better chance of helping him keep his top ranking rather than opening his piehole saying something absurdly selfish.
 
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sonicare

Hall of Fame
Can someone do the math for 2008 and see whether rafa would have been able to overtake no.1 from roger on a 2 year ranking?
 

TopFH

Hall of Fame
Funny to see all the ****s getting jittery ahead of the AO season.:lol: What's the matter - nervous that Nadal is gonna win AO or the whole 2012 Gold Slam?:lol:

Seriously, if I were you, I would be nervous that Djokovic is gonna win the AO and the Grand Slam.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Funny to see all the ****s getting jittery ahead of the AO season.:lol: What's the matter - nervous that Nadal is gonna win AO or the whole 2012 Gold Slam?:lol:

The old man has no shot. Almost 26, injury prone, and younger guys ready to take over. Go Tomic! :lol:
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Seriously, if I were you, I would be nervous that Djokovic is gonna win the AO and the Grand Slam.

Nadal has a history of taking odd years off to rest and enjoy and come back ever stronger in the following even year. I am happy that Djokovic took advantage of Nadal’s 2011 absence, but I don’t see that as a factor in 2012.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
The old man has no shot. Almost 26, injury prone, and younger guys ready to take over. Go Tomic! :lol:

I wish Tomic all the best and I'm sure he'll win a match, as long as it doesn't go past his bedtime of 8pm.:lol: Nadal is a late bloomer whose early success was largely due to getting to beat up on talentless players like Fredeerer late in the slams.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Nadal has a history of taking odd years off to rest and enjoy and come back ever stronger in the following even year. I am happy that Djokovic took advantage of Nadal’s 2011 absence, but I don’t see that as a factor in 2012.

Good luck to Nadal. Although age 25-26 is not quite the same as age 22-23 in the grueling game of tennis. Just sayin' ;)
Just remember who the younger man is between Nadal and Djokovic.:)
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
I wish Tomic all the best and I'm sure he'll win a match, as long as it doesn't go past his bedtime of 8pm.:lol: Nadal is a late bloomer whose early success was largely due to getting to beat up on talentless players like Fredeerer late in the slams.

True but then again, Tomic also is 6 years younger than Nadal. He has a bright future. Just a little brash at times. He's practicing with Djokovic right now going into 2012. That's ideal for preparation for the new season I'd say.
 

AM95

Hall of Fame
my question is, how can this even be on the table?

the tennis ranking system has been like this since its inception in the 70's (?) and i can't believe that they are going to just change it. being #1 wouldn't even matter anymore. this is nadal thinking for himself and not for the sport. the simple fact is, he needst to manage his schedule better (but he can't because he needs to play the entire clay court season to earn points), and if he has an injury, he should pull out of the tournament.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Good luck to Nadal. Although age 25-26 is not quite the same as age 22-23 in the grueling game of tennis. Just sayin' ;)
Just remember who the younger man is between Nadal and Djokovic.:)

Late bloomers like Nadal only get better throughout their 20s as they advance toward their prime. The medium-term bloomer Djokovic was lucky to snatch a couple of slams in the current non-Nadal year. If he keeps up he might win another slam (AO maybe) perhaps in 2013.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Nadal has a history of taking odd years off to rest and enjoy and come back ever stronger in the following even year. I am happy that Djokovic took advantage of Nadal’s 2011 absence, but I don’t see that as a factor in 2012.

I love how you put that. :lol: taking time off to rest and enjoy the odd years! :lol:
"Yeah, I'll play my *** off to make the Wimbledon and U.S Open Final but since this is an odd year, I think I'll just rest and enjoy myself and ditch these finals and instead come back next year and win it. :lol:
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
True but then again, Tomic also is 6 years younger than Nadal. He has a bright future. Just a little brash at times. He's practicing with Djokovic right now going into 2012. That's ideal for preparation for the new season I'd say.

Djokovic is injured and past prime, nobody wants to practice with him or Tomic anymore, but they are lucky to have each other, I am very happy for them. True, overhyped Tomic is younger than great Nadal, but great Nadal is a late bloomer and overhyped Tomic is an early bloomer whose career is basically over, unless his publicist gets him to drive a pink Corvette on beaches with a loud boom box.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Late bloomers like Nadal only get better throughout their 20s as they advance toward their prime. The medium-term bloomer Djokovic was lucky to snatch a couple of slams in the current non-Nadal year. If he keeps up he might win another slam (AO maybe) perhaps in 2013.

Not sure about that. He's going through the same issues Federer was when Federer entered his late 20s. Lapses in focus, going astray on big points, losing the will to win, hanging his head at times when things got tight, folding badly in the latter parts of a match (USO 2011 4th set as an example). Serve no longer a big weapon, slight loss in speed, more injuries becoming a factor...
Nadal is a warrior but he's merely a human being. Nothing more.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
I love how you put that. :lol: taking time off to rest and enjoy the odd years! :lol:
"Yeah, I'll play my *** off to make the Wimbledon and U.S Open Final but since this is an odd year, I think I'll just rest and enjoy myself and ditch these finals and instead come back next year and win it. :lol:

Statistics and mathematics don't lie - they present solid facts, like them or not. In conjunction with a solid understanding of tennis, they present a complete picture of the situation.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Not sure about that. He's going through the same issues Federer was when Federer entered his late 20s. Lapses in focus, going astray on big points, losing the will to win, hanging his head at times when things got tight, folding badly in the latter parts of a match (USO 2011 4th set as an example). Serve no longer a big weapon, slight loss in speed, more injuries becoming a factor...
Nadal is a warrior but he's merely a human being. Nothing more.

The great talented handsome tennis genius Nadal has never had to deal with any of the issues that the overrated ugly hack psychopathic Frededer ever faced. Perhaps you will be more inclined to agree after Nadal wins the 2012 Gold Slam.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Statistics and mathematics don't lie - they present solid facts, like them or not. In conjunction with a solid understanding of tennis, they present a complete picture of the situation.

Everything is also finite! Did they ever teach you that in your Math class, SoBad? :lol:
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
The great talented handsome tennis genius Nadal has never had to deal with any of the issues that the overrated ugly hack psychopathic Frededer ever faced. Perhaps you will be more inclined to agree after Nadal wins the 2012 Gold Slam.

Well, I wouldn't say it's out of the realm of possibility that Nadal wins all 4 Slams and the Olympic Gold. I just think that with the emerging talent like Tomic along with the likes of Djokovic, Federer, Murray, Tsonga, Del Potro, and Ferrer in the draws (all have beaten Nadal in Slams by the way), life will not be so easy for Nadal.
I can barely recall the last time he was actually able to get through Murray and Djokovic back to back in a tournament to win a title. Think it was Monte Carlo 2009.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Everything is also finite! Did they ever teach you that in your Math class, SoBad? :lol:

Sounds like your math teacher left out the part about some things being infinite;) Don't worry - you might get to that once you are in secondary school;)
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Well, I wouldn't say it's out of the realm of possibility that Nadal wins all 4 Slams and the Olympic Gold. I just think that with the emerging talent like Tomic along with the likes of Djokovic, Federer, Murray, Tsonga, Del Potro, and Ferrer in the draws (all have beaten Nadal in Slams by the way), life will not be so easy for Nadal.
I can barely recall the last time he was actually able to get through Murray and Djokovic back to back in a tournament to win a title. Think it was Monte Carlo 2009.

And I also think there's a chance that Nadal won't win the 2012 Gold Slam. I merely cited that possibility as a potential reason for the recent trolling activism around the forums and this thread in particular. However, citing Tomic as a potential challenger is preposterous - I can think of dozens of the new guns who are far better, including Dimitrov, Donskoy, etc.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
And I also think there's a chance that Nadal won't win the 2012 Gold Slam. I merely cited that possibility as a potential reason for the recent trolling activism around the forums and this thread in particular. However, citing Tomic as a potential challenger is preposterous - I can think of dozens of the new guns who are far better, including Dimitrov, Donskoy, etc.

I don't know. I think you underrate Tomic. You may dislike his attitude but that guy has talent. And the second set of his AO match against Nadal shows there is a lot of talent there not to mention his performance at Davis Cup against Federer on grass. The kid is young still, very cocky, heck he even thinks Hewitt is not good enough to even bother training with. :lol:
But Tomic is bound to become a real threat and I think it can happen in 2012. Also, let's keep an eye on Dolgopolov.:)
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Sorry, I should've said physical matter is finite. :lol: My bad.

Unlike your previous statement (which was clearly false), this one is arguable. What is its purpose exactly - to bolster some past claim of yours that I have already refuted convincingly?:lol:
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Unlike your previous statement (which was clearly false), this one is arguable. What is its purpose exactly - to bolster some past claim of yours that I have already refuted convincingly?:lol:

You made a statement that Nadal omits odd years and becomes a big deal in even years. And then I said there is a difference between early 20s and late 20s for a tennis player and mentioned some proof (using Federer as an example) of players having more trouble physically and mentally as they get up into their late 20s.
I didn't even hit on the rivals and emerging young players yet with my argument. I assure you, NOTHING is decided by Nadal. Even year or odd year is irrelevant. Nadal is a person and people break down and make way for younger, stronger athletes.
It's evolution. It happens in all sports.:)
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
You made a statement that Nadal omits odd years and becomes a big deal in even years. And then I said there is a difference between early 20s and late 20s for a tennis player and mentioned some proof (using Federer as an example) of players having more trouble physically and mentally as they get up into their late 20s.
I didn't even hit on the rivals and emerging young players yet with my argument. I assure you, NOTHING is decided by Nadal. Even year or odd year is irrelevant. Nadal is a person and people break down and make way for younger, stronger athletes.
It's evolution. It happens in all sports.:)

I heard what you said the first time, but you apparently missed the part where I replied. Perhaps you are right - the newborns of today are the real threats at the 2012 AO.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
I heard what you said the first time, but you apparently missed the part where I replied. Perhaps you are right - the newborns of today are the real threats at the 2012 AO.

I'm not sure why you specifically pinpoint AO 2012 whereas I look at the entire calendar. :lol:
There is still a lot of tennis to be played after January you know. :lol:
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
I'm not sure why you specifically pinpoint AO 2012 whereas I look at the entire calendar. :lol:
There is still a lot of tennis to be played after January you know. :lol:

That's true, as long as a baby born in December hits all the early developmental milestones, he'd have a better shot at Wimbledon at the ripe age of six months.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
That's true, as long as a baby born in December hits all the early developmental milestones, he'd have a better shot at Wimbledon at the ripe age of six months.

:lol: Not sure about that. Just remember though, young Tomic did give Wimbledon champ Djokovic a good tussle in the quarterfinals. I also want to add that Nadal also had a hell of a time in his matches against young players Dodig and Golubev. There are threats throughout the draw. An off day could result in an upset.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
:lol: Not sure about that. Just remember though, young Tomic did give Wimbledon champ Djokovic a good tussle in the quarterfinals. I also want to add that Nadal also had a hell of a time in his matches against young players Dodig and Golubev. There are threats throughout the draw. An off day could result in an upset.

Can we just drop Tomic from this discussion? Do you come from his Queenship or something? He is a Dokic type tragic figure who needs to quit tennis and write a book.

Nadal has faced some impossible draws in slams, I agree with you. Golubev is one of the most talented players on the tour, and it was very unlucky for Nadal to face him early in slams. Placed in the other half of the draw, Golubev would have beaten Fereder and Djokovic easily and Nadal wouldn't have had to play him until the final.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Can we just drop Tomic from this discussion? Do you come from his Queenship or something? He is a Dokic type tragic figure who needs to quit tennis and write a book.

Nadal has faced some impossible draws in slams, I agree with you. Golubev is one of the most talented players on the tour, and it was very unlucky for Nadal to face him early in slams. Placed in the other half of the draw, Golubev would have beaten Fereder and Djokovic easily and Nadal wouldn't have had to play him until the final.

Even Jesse Whitten turned up the heat when he had the spotlight against Djokovic at the U.S Open.:)
Also, it took a massive choke from Falla for Federer to get through that first round at Wimbledon.
Tomic is going to be tough also. Not many 19 year olds are coming around and taking sets off the big 4. A bit more time and seasoning and it's going to be a Tomic Triumph!
Also don't forget Tsonga. I anticipate more Tsong-sational victories over the top 4 in 2012.
 

SoBad

G.O.A.T.
Even Jesse Whitten turned up the heat when he had the spotlight against Djokovic at the U.S Open.:)
Also, it took a massive choke from Falla for Federer to get through that first round at Wimbledon.
Tomic is going to be tough also. Not many 19 year olds are coming around and taking sets off the big 4. A bit more time and seasoning and it's going to be a Tomic Triumph!
Also don't forget Tsonga. I anticipate more Tsong-sational victories over the top 4 in 2012.

You are on a downward slide now. Witten is not that good, but he is very motivated, because he is allowed to eat five double-cheeseburgers after every match win.

Tomic makes a sympathetic abuse victim, but not so impressive on the court. It was very clear when sickly undernourished injury-prone Kuznetsov demolished him in the jr w final.

Tsonga made a lucky slam final over unplaying Nadal in a weak year, I wouldn't expect another. I have to go out to sea to catch the snails for breakfast soon.
 

adamX012

Rookie
You are on a downward slide now. Witten is not that good, but he is very motivated, because he is allowed to eat five double-cheeseburgers after every match win..

Five double-cheeseburgers, are you kidding me? That's not very healthy at all. Is that true or make-up story?
 

purge

Hall of Fame
i still wonder who the "other players" that support the 2 year ranking are. i have not heard anyone else speak up for it yet.

im starting to think nadal didnt talk to anyone but his buddies about it (like verdasco, lopez, etc) and they just agreed cause they didnt want to hurt his feelings.

really its got "bad idea" just written all over it. its inexplicable to me how nadal doesnt see this
 
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