PV Audio's Playtest Thread
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mikeler
Moderator
Hey uh....how about you guys take that to another thread???
Sorry, sometimes I forget what thread I'm in.
I'll be curious to see what kind of durability you get out of the B5E/ThB.
WeissCANNON B5E / Genesis Thunderblast 16g
WeissCANNON B5E / Genesis Thunderblast 16g
Stringing: Easy to string. WeissCANNON poly mains, multifilament crosses. Next! 51.5 / 55 lbs.
Groundstrokes: This review comes with an enormous caveat: I fell in love with this racquet with the same mains string, but with natural gut crosses. So it stands to reason that anything different in the crosses that isn't fully poly is going to be a let down. Not so. The thing is, unlike many people believe, natural gut does not just soften the stringbed. It makes the poly seem livelier and seemingly for longer. Using synthetic gut crosses will simply soften. Multi crosses are in the middle. They soften, yes, but they are able to change the feel of a stringbed far more than a syn gut or natural gut. Why? Because there are far more many variations of multifilament than either gut or syn gut. If you use a powerful multi like X-1, you're going to pretty much just be after power. If you use a softer multi like Maxim Touch, you're pretty much going for comfort and feel. Thunderblast is an interesting case. It does not change the feel of the stringbed much from a poly feel when casually hitting. When you need it though, it gives you dwell time similar to natural gut (crosses, not natural gut in itself). It also gives you more spin than natural gut does. As you can see in the images, this is after 2 hours of hitting only. The poly is nowhere near dead, but you can see that the mains are sliding all over the crosses and easily snapping back, ergo, a lot of spin. The setup does need to break in, however. This is absent with natural gut crosses. Once it is broken in, you can get great control off both wings. It's definitely for the control oriented player who will counter-punch if necessary, but will like to dictate the point most of the time. Seeing as I am an all court player, this setup works great for me. Better than natural gut? No. It's equal. It's simply different. As my ability has improved, I can appreciate its qualities, so with that in mind, it gets great marks.
Overall: 9.5/10
Serves: This is a great server's setup. The power is controlled, spin is great, and you can get great feel on slice serves. I mention that purposely because coming from anything with natural gut, you tend to get a very unique feedback when slicing. It's a muted, soft feel. Poly tends to give you the impression that you really have sliced the ear off of the ball just by feel alone. It's very hard to describe, but for anyone who hits slices, you'll know what I mean. This stuff is great for that since the multi is responsive, but not too lively.
Overall: 9/10
Volleys: This is where you can tell you're still using poly. Touch and feel at the net are not at the level of gut crosses, much less gut mains. While I wouldn't exactly say the feel is bad, you had better finish off your volley quickly because this isn't geared to help you up at the net. At the same time, it won't let you down if you do need to be at the net. So, if you're an all court player who gets drawn in, don't fear. Just don't be eager to rush up there if you're not used to being up there already.
Overall: 8.25/10
Durability: As you can see, the black coating has been transferred from the sweetspot and onto the balls. Yet, the crosses seem to be holding up just fine. No fraying yet after 2 hours. Since I have plenty of experience with B5E, I'm not too worried about the poly here anyway. Regardless, I do like thinner multis anyway, so I plan to get some of the 17g even if it means restringing more often. I bet that will eliminate the 1 hour aka 1 entire set break in period that you don't experience with gut.
Overall: 9/10
This was tested because gut is getting too expensive for me to use personally. I already know what sort of poly I like, and the Depot had sent me this set of Thunderblast many moons ago before it was released. I just never got around to using it since I was using gut at the time. Having heard the hoo-ha about how good this particular hybrid is, I figured, hey, why not? Turns out, the hype wasn't hype. This is just a great setup through and through. It also doesn't cost that much and to make matters even sweeter, it looks pretty badass. All black just looks discreet and sinister for some reason. In addition, when the all black leaves waffle marks on the balls, it just looks like you're out there for business.
Will this be my new setup? Most likely. I don't have many multis that I like in large quantity. The exception is NRG2 18, but unless you're using it in full, I feel that's simply a waste because the durability is so poor. Plus, it's nearly as expensive as a cheap gut per set anyway. I'll update on how this performs until breakage, but I suspect it will be fairly linear. In short: Mikeler Matchup is a great hybrid.
Overall: 9.25/10
WeissCANNON B5E / Genesis Thunderblast 16g
Stringing: Easy to string. WeissCANNON poly mains, multifilament crosses. Next! 51.5 / 55 lbs.
Groundstrokes: This review comes with an enormous caveat: I fell in love with this racquet with the same mains string, but with natural gut crosses. So it stands to reason that anything different in the crosses that isn't fully poly is going to be a let down. Not so. The thing is, unlike many people believe, natural gut does not just soften the stringbed. It makes the poly seem livelier and seemingly for longer. Using synthetic gut crosses will simply soften. Multi crosses are in the middle. They soften, yes, but they are able to change the feel of a stringbed far more than a syn gut or natural gut. Why? Because there are far more many variations of multifilament than either gut or syn gut. If you use a powerful multi like X-1, you're going to pretty much just be after power. If you use a softer multi like Maxim Touch, you're pretty much going for comfort and feel. Thunderblast is an interesting case. It does not change the feel of the stringbed much from a poly feel when casually hitting. When you need it though, it gives you dwell time similar to natural gut (crosses, not natural gut in itself). It also gives you more spin than natural gut does. As you can see in the images, this is after 2 hours of hitting only. The poly is nowhere near dead, but you can see that the mains are sliding all over the crosses and easily snapping back, ergo, a lot of spin. The setup does need to break in, however. This is absent with natural gut crosses. Once it is broken in, you can get great control off both wings. It's definitely for the control oriented player who will counter-punch if necessary, but will like to dictate the point most of the time. Seeing as I am an all court player, this setup works great for me. Better than natural gut? No. It's equal. It's simply different. As my ability has improved, I can appreciate its qualities, so with that in mind, it gets great marks.
Overall: 9.5/10
Serves: This is a great server's setup. The power is controlled, spin is great, and you can get great feel on slice serves. I mention that purposely because coming from anything with natural gut, you tend to get a very unique feedback when slicing. It's a muted, soft feel. Poly tends to give you the impression that you really have sliced the ear off of the ball just by feel alone. It's very hard to describe, but for anyone who hits slices, you'll know what I mean. This stuff is great for that since the multi is responsive, but not too lively.
Overall: 9/10
Volleys: This is where you can tell you're still using poly. Touch and feel at the net are not at the level of gut crosses, much less gut mains. While I wouldn't exactly say the feel is bad, you had better finish off your volley quickly because this isn't geared to help you up at the net. At the same time, it won't let you down if you do need to be at the net. So, if you're an all court player who gets drawn in, don't fear. Just don't be eager to rush up there if you're not used to being up there already.
Overall: 8.25/10
Durability: As you can see, the black coating has been transferred from the sweetspot and onto the balls. Yet, the crosses seem to be holding up just fine. No fraying yet after 2 hours. Since I have plenty of experience with B5E, I'm not too worried about the poly here anyway. Regardless, I do like thinner multis anyway, so I plan to get some of the 17g even if it means restringing more often. I bet that will eliminate the 1 hour aka 1 entire set break in period that you don't experience with gut.
Overall: 9/10
This was tested because gut is getting too expensive for me to use personally. I already know what sort of poly I like, and the Depot had sent me this set of Thunderblast many moons ago before it was released. I just never got around to using it since I was using gut at the time. Having heard the hoo-ha about how good this particular hybrid is, I figured, hey, why not? Turns out, the hype wasn't hype. This is just a great setup through and through. It also doesn't cost that much and to make matters even sweeter, it looks pretty badass. All black just looks discreet and sinister for some reason. In addition, when the all black leaves waffle marks on the balls, it just looks like you're out there for business.
Will this be my new setup? Most likely. I don't have many multis that I like in large quantity. The exception is NRG2 18, but unless you're using it in full, I feel that's simply a waste because the durability is so poor. Plus, it's nearly as expensive as a cheap gut per set anyway. I'll update on how this performs until breakage, but I suspect it will be fairly linear. In short: Mikeler Matchup is a great hybrid.
Overall: 9.25/10
mikeler
Moderator
Another top notch review. I'd like to point out if you buy reels of B5E and Thunder Blast, the hybrid setup costs around $6.50 per racket. I typically cut it out around 12 hours, so you are looking at about $0.50/hour of use. I had to this analysis for a guy using pure synthetic gut who claimed I was spending tons of money on string. He was paying $3.50 per pack and getting 3 or 4 hours out of it. So I told him that is around $1/hour of use plus more restringing time on his part.
I'm wondering if I love volleys with it more mainly due to the racket and not the strings. The PK 7G is the best volleying stick I've ever used.
I'm wondering if I love volleys with it more mainly due to the racket and not the strings. The PK 7G is the best volleying stick I've ever used.
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I mean, keep in mind that I've been using natural gut in some form for all of 2011. The racquet I have now, the 4D200T isn't as maneuverable as the AG100 at the net. Still, I like to S&V on occasion, and the multi cross does show compared to the WhisperTouch. That aside, it's still damn brilliant!
mikeler
Moderator
I mean, keep in mind that I've been using natural gut in some form for all of 2011. The racquet I have now, the 4D200T isn't as maneuverable as the AG100 at the net. Still, I like to S&V on occasion, and the multi cross does show compared to the WhisperTouch. That aside, it's still damn brilliant!
I like volleying better with the ThB crosses versus the gut crosses. Different strokes for different folks I guess. The Unifibre gut crosses were marginally better than ThB but much more expensive.
mikeler
Moderator
Expensive, and if time is money, unaffordable
You brought back nightmares of that string job. Never again will I string poly crosses at least for myself.
polytheist
Rookie
what about LTEC pretend gut?
You mean gut crosses?
mikeler
Moderator
Two reasons mainly. The multi is a softer string, so to get a more uniform stringbed stiffness, I need to string them higher. More importantly, I want to string my poly low, but stringing a multi low is much less predictable than stringing natural gut low. So, I just strung it up at 55. I don't go beyond 5 lbs difference between mains and crosses though, so 3.5 is usually as far as I differ.
Honestly, the cross string depends on the person. If it's a multi that we're talking about, then its the multi's characteristics that you'd need to look at. If you want power, cross with X-1, Xcel or Premier. If comfort, Mantis Comfort Syn or WC Explosiv! would work well. Simply playability, NRG2, Isospeed Professional or Maxim Touch would do. Personally, I don't find TNT2 to be particularly good at anything, so I don't carry it. Gamma Live Wire XP and Professional are excellent, though.
The poly mains vs. crosses is a long running debate on here. At the end of the day, it's preference. I hit with the B5E frame back to back with the gut/CoFocus frame. The difference is startling in feel, but the ball on the other side of the court is in most instances the same. It's only under certain situations where one would shine. The gut would suit the more offensive player while the counter-puncher or defensive player would likely prefer the poly. The all-court player can't make up his mind (aka, me!). You're basically either damping the liveliness of the gut with poly crosses, or enhancing the playability of the poly with gut crosses.
The poly mains vs. crosses is a long running debate on here. At the end of the day, it's preference. I hit with the B5E frame back to back with the gut/CoFocus frame. The difference is startling in feel, but the ball on the other side of the court is in most instances the same. It's only under certain situations where one would shine. The gut would suit the more offensive player while the counter-puncher or defensive player would likely prefer the poly. The all-court player can't make up his mind (aka, me!). You're basically either damping the liveliness of the gut with poly crosses, or enhancing the playability of the poly with gut crosses.
Had a couple of sets of singles with a Prestige MP today (98/18x20) originally strung with a Performaxx HT N.Gut/Co-Focus combo. First time I've played with it in about 6 weeks, and about 2 months since it was originally strung.
It still plays pretty well. Obviously the poly has lost a ton of tension, so the stringbed overall is noticeably softer, maybe slightly mushy on occasions. Not as crisp as it once was but it was perfectly playable. The characteristics of the poly have faded much more into the background but it still stops the gut from trampolining too much when you take a big rip at the ball.
The gut mains are still playing well as you would expect, and there's alot of forgiveness in the stringbed. It's nice to have the free power that the gut provides. It's a powerful but still controlled stringbed (though not as controlled as when it was first strung). Comfortable stringbed. Have to say that I quite like this supposedly stiffer 'high tension' Performaxx Natural Gut 1.20mm. Rolling it through your fingers and bending it when unstrung it is slightly stiffer than Wilson Gut or Performaxx normal gut, but it plays well. I like it. In relative terms of course, its still pretty soft.
For longevity, this natural gut / poly is quite a nice combination, particularly if you're planning to leave your strings in your racquet for some time. I am however, curious as whether some of the Weiscannon polys or SPPP would provide even better tension maintenance.
It still plays pretty well. Obviously the poly has lost a ton of tension, so the stringbed overall is noticeably softer, maybe slightly mushy on occasions. Not as crisp as it once was but it was perfectly playable. The characteristics of the poly have faded much more into the background but it still stops the gut from trampolining too much when you take a big rip at the ball.
The gut mains are still playing well as you would expect, and there's alot of forgiveness in the stringbed. It's nice to have the free power that the gut provides. It's a powerful but still controlled stringbed (though not as controlled as when it was first strung). Comfortable stringbed. Have to say that I quite like this supposedly stiffer 'high tension' Performaxx Natural Gut 1.20mm. Rolling it through your fingers and bending it when unstrung it is slightly stiffer than Wilson Gut or Performaxx normal gut, but it plays well. I like it. In relative terms of course, its still pretty soft.
For longevity, this natural gut / poly is quite a nice combination, particularly if you're planning to leave your strings in your racquet for some time. I am however, curious as whether some of the Weiscannon polys or SPPP would provide even better tension maintenance.
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TaihtDuhShaat
Semi-Pro
Torres,
WeissCANNON silverstring keeps the string-bed's tension really well over the long term. Comparing to cofocus, silverstring crosses give less spin, but better control from hitting long. They also have a really nice soft pocketing feel that doesn't go away even after the poly has gone 'dead'. Rallying is more fun with gut/cofocus, but I definitely play better with gut/ss.
I'm going to try gut/scorpion next on my 16x19 prestige pro to see how that compares.
WeissCANNON silverstring keeps the string-bed's tension really well over the long term. Comparing to cofocus, silverstring crosses give less spin, but better control from hitting long. They also have a really nice soft pocketing feel that doesn't go away even after the poly has gone 'dead'. Rallying is more fun with gut/cofocus, but I definitely play better with gut/ss.
I'm going to try gut/scorpion next on my 16x19 prestige pro to see how that compares.
Murray_fan1
Professional
PV,
There seems to be a lot of talk about Tour Bite on the boards at the moment. Just wondering if you ever have plans on a Tour Bite review? Any experience with this sting in a Hybrid ? My guess is it would tear up gut or a multi pretty good due to it's shape?
There seems to be a lot of talk about Tour Bite on the boards at the moment. Just wondering if you ever have plans on a Tour Bite review? Any experience with this sting in a Hybrid ? My guess is it would tear up gut or a multi pretty good due to it's shape?
hebrewhammer
Rookie
PV,
Being a stringer, i'm sure you could easily get a discount from solinco
Being a stringer, i'm sure you could easily get a discount from solinco
The Co-Focus crosses have well and truly gone dead, and they feel very rubbery as a result. Probably no more than 8 hours of play on this stringbed. Very very different feeling to when it was fresh. The gut mains - which only have minimal fraying - aren't enough to save it either.
Stringbed is still playable, just mushy and rubbery feeling and there's none of that 'tight' feeling power and control as when first strung - now its only really the gut that's providing the power.
I think I might perform the cardinal sin of replacing the crosses only with another poly.
Stringbed is still playable, just mushy and rubbery feeling and there's none of that 'tight' feeling power and control as when first strung - now its only really the gut that's providing the power.
I think I might perform the cardinal sin of replacing the crosses only with another poly.
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polytheist
Rookie
duh. don't waste that gut. put in some fresh cofocus.
In fact, try some 1.23 cofocus and let me know if it still gives the same quality ball but with a little less power.
In fact, try some 1.23 cofocus and let me know if it still gives the same quality ball but with a little less power.
Why don't you try some and let me know?
Make sure you do it by the end of this week.
mikeler
Moderator
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
I'm doing the same with my VS Team/Silverstring. After 5 hours VS is fraying. SS is not providing the same, fresh pop and feel. I've put in new SS and will see how it goes. I don't see VS mains lasting more than another 3-5 hours though.
Bit disappointing that SS only seems to last for 5 hours or so.
As for the gut, its interesting how much less wear there is on the mains with a 95/18x20 (me) compared to your 100/16x19. The gut on mine is barely fraying after 8 hours (not that it really matters that much given that the poly's gone dead).
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polytheist
Rookie
I'm gimped up like Mikeler and gotta go poly-free for a while. GG says ltec soft poly hybrid at low tension is their recommended TE string now. It's tempting to want to try it. I think i might just go gut/nvy or gut/mcs or gut/feel, gonna do a string friction test first.
mikeler
Moderator
I've played so little tennis lately, I'm almost de-gimped. I'd stay away from any poly.
fortun8son
Hall of Fame
But RPM Blast @ 64lbs is the way to go! Just ask any 16 yr old!
mikeler
Moderator
But RPM Blast @ 64lbs is the way to go! Just ask any 16 yr old!
Softer than a baby's bottom.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
There is a BIG difference between the length of time I can use a string on a 18x20 players frame (Ozone Pro Tour) and a 16x19 tweener (YT Extreme Pro.) For example I can play with Cyclone 18 on OPT for 4-6 hours with virtually no string movement whereas on the YTEP I only get 2-3 hours. I'd imagine that if I used the VS/SS setup on OPT, I'd easily get 8+ hours before SS (as a cross) starts to lose its pop. SS gives me 2x the quality playing time compared to other polys such as Cyclone, RPM, ALU, BHBR, etc.
polytheist
Rookie
SilverString 1.20?
Strung up my remaining half set of Whispertouch HT 1.20 with SS 1.20 crosses in my 6.1
That SS is just grim. I really don't know why people like it. It offers no crispness at all and just deadens the stringbed to a significant degree. Maybe its the 95/18x20 closed pattern I'm using (everyone who likes it seems to be using it open patterns), but eeesh, in my setup I really don't like it as a full bed, and really don't like it either when used as hybrid cross. Doesn't feel as if the gut is moving as freely either.
That SS is just grim. I really don't know why people like it. It offers no crispness at all and just deadens the stringbed to a significant degree. Maybe its the 95/18x20 closed pattern I'm using (everyone who likes it seems to be using it open patterns), but eeesh, in my setup I really don't like it as a full bed, and really don't like it either when used as hybrid cross. Doesn't feel as if the gut is moving as freely either.
TaihtDuhShaat
Semi-Pro
I love that dead but consistent depth feeling of gut/ss. It's unique because most other polys that play dead aren't really consistent feeling on flat shots. I feel like I can hit the ball at the exact depth I'm aiming every time with gut/ss. It actually gets better once the gut locks, because you can really go for the flat shots then. The best part is each tension picked for ss locks in a different depth on the opponents court. The goal is finding one that lets you hit the back third every time no matter how slow or fast you swing. Then it lets me wail away once the point starts.
The polar opposite gut/WC setup would be gut/black5edge. It needs a closed face on every shot, but has some real quirks to it that some players love. It's not nearly as consistent on flat shots or return of serve with some trampolining, but will control any topspin you can give it.
My brother loves the gut/b5e. He likes to take huge topspin cuts with a closed face and doesn't need the consistent depth control for flat shots of gut/ss. He can flatten out his one hander well with it, too. It's lower powered at net than ss, so it's good for drop volleys.
Th
The polar opposite gut/WC setup would be gut/black5edge. It needs a closed face on every shot, but has some real quirks to it that some players love. It's not nearly as consistent on flat shots or return of serve with some trampolining, but will control any topspin you can give it.
My brother loves the gut/b5e. He likes to take huge topspin cuts with a closed face and doesn't need the consistent depth control for flat shots of gut/ss. He can flatten out his one hander well with it, too. It's lower powered at net than ss, so it's good for drop volleys.
Th
mixedmedia
Professional
Huh, wonder why it's not working for you, Torres. I tried it full bed in a 100/18x20 frame and really liked it. I would have tried it out in a hybrid, but I decided I like Scorpion a bit better, though I'm thinking of trying out SS in a gut/poly setup afterall.
^ Scorpion 17, in my view, is head and shoulders above SS. It's everything that SS is not - ie Scorpion has more feel, better touch, (some) power, more liveliness, more organic feeling, not dead feeling from the word go etc. Not outstanding in any one particular area but generally a good showing in all areas until it goes dead (which is rather too soon for my liking). 95/18x20 needs some liveliness to the stringbed which SS just does not seem to provide.
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I thought I could never use poly again. Just to stay with it and not kill my arm I was stringing natural gut mains with poly for added spin. Of course it was never the spin of a full bed of poly to me.
Tried L-Tec. Went from 56/54 on my old setups to 42/40. It comes as a poly hybrid setup. No arm problem whatsoever! Control is amazing and hits with no break in and no string movement. I have almost 30 hours and still fresh!
fgs
Hall of Fame
that the strings still play fresh after 30 hitting hours is really a terrific feat, but my question is how much hitting time do you usually get out of a set of strings?
you see, i have a heavy topspin centered game and even in my old days i basically don't get more than max. 10 hitting hours out of any set-up i've tried (no matter if fullbed-poly or hybrid). for my 10 hours i've found strings that don't die, so i'm rather reluctant to spend sooo much money on a string that i go through in 10 hours anyway.
by the way, i do also string rather low, in the mid 40's.
you see, i have a heavy topspin centered game and even in my old days i basically don't get more than max. 10 hitting hours out of any set-up i've tried (no matter if fullbed-poly or hybrid). for my 10 hours i've found strings that don't die, so i'm rather reluctant to spend sooo much money on a string that i go through in 10 hours anyway.
by the way, i do also string rather low, in the mid 40's.
mikeler
Moderator
You are right, I am not a string breaker and no one will call my ball heavy topspin although I have enough spin to get a few free points from players who think the ball is going long only for it to drop on or before the line.
The post was more about the poly not going dead as most of my poly does after 10-20 hours of play. The L-Tec still feels the same after 30 hours.
I am using it in the Ohio cold!
fgs
Hall of Fame
levy1,
thank you for your response. seems to be a truly interesting string, specially for the players that don't break strings so often. once they become available in europe i might give them a try too, although they are really very expensive. since i break strings quite quick it simply adds up.
thank you for your response. seems to be a truly interesting string, specially for the players that don't break strings so often. once they become available in europe i might give them a try too, although they are really very expensive. since i break strings quite quick it simply adds up.
mikeler
Moderator
levy1,
thank you for your response. seems to be a truly interesting string, specially for the players that don't break strings so often. once they become available in europe i might give them a try too, although they are really very expensive. since i break strings quite quick it simply adds up.
You break poly fast?
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