Nadal Gets Surprise Drug Test

TTMR · Feb 11, 2012

The Hype said:
My problem with this argument is this: Everybody on PEDS is not the same as everybody off PEDS. Everybody on PEDS allows Novak and Rafa to play their grinding, attritional tennis for 5 - 6 hours, match after match and ultimately win out. If they were not on PEDS could they play this way and dominate against a clean field? Would a faster attacking energy saving game like Federer or Delpo (i'm not saying their clean) dominate in this environment? I think it would.

There's always the option of speeding up the courts a little and/or converting to lighter balls. Both of those are more feasible than realistically removing PEDs from the sport, especially in the upper echelons.

I also disagree with your idea that Nadal and Djokovic only dominate because they play a "grinding, attritional" game. They are the best at adapting to current conditions. When they play each other, they are both so fast it turns into a war of attrition because the courts and balls do not enable them to hit through each other.

Nadal played attacking tennis, including some serve and volley at Wimbledon 2008, and that was one of his best performances ever. Djokovic is an aggressive, offensive baseliner who only differs from the 6'5 giants like Soderling and Del Potro because he is also able to defend brilliantly and can take cuts on both sides of the ball, not just the forehand, while Soderling and Del Potro just give up on a lot more balls, making them appear less like 'defensive-minded' players.

I've also never seen Federer gasping for air in five set matches, even when he is running around on the baseline going toe to toe with Nadal and Djokovic. Does Nicolas Mahut look clean to you? He runs around like a jackrabbit after three continuous days of tennis. Yet he plays 'attacking' tennis. Linking playing style with PED use is highly tendentious.

jackson vile · Feb 11, 2012

That is a good point, as we have seen them defeat even Federer in his prime in straight sets. Nothing taxing about that, the whole time thing is due to time wasting. Really not that much tennis actually being played when compared to the actual time.

TTMR said:
There's always the option of speeding up the courts a little and/or converting to lighter balls. Both of those are more feasible than realistically removing PEDs from the sport, especially in the upper echelons.

I also disagree with your idea that Nadal and Djokovic only dominate because they play a "grinding, attritional" game. They are the best at adapting to current conditions. When they play each other, they are both so fast it turns into a war of attrition because the courts and balls do not enable them to hit through each other.

Nadal played attacking tennis, including some serve and volley at Wimbledon 2008, and that was one of his best performances ever. Djokovic is an aggressive, offensive baseliner who only differs from the 6'5 giants like Soderling and Del Potro because he is also able to defend brilliantly and can take cuts on both sides of the ball, not just the forehand, while Soderling and Del Potro just give up on a lot more balls, making them appear less like 'defensive-minded' players.

I've also never seen Federer gasping for air in five set matches, even when he is running around on the baseline going toe to toe with Nadal and Djokovic. Does Nicolas Mahut look clean to you? He runs around like a jackrabbit after three continuous days of tennis. Yet he plays 'attacking' tennis. Linking playing style with PED use is highly tendentious.

Hood_Man · Feb 11, 2012

The Nadal Djokovic match at Wimbledon had a fair amount of time wasting (I remember hearing the tuts from the audience I was watching it with when Djokovic kept bouncing that ball), and that was under 2 and a half hours.

corners · Feb 11, 2012

Hood_Man said:
The Nadal Djokovic match at Wimbledon had a fair amount of time wasting (I remember hearing the tuts from the audience I was watching it with when Djokovic kept bouncing that ball), and that was under 2 and a half hours.

I'm willing to continue looking the other way about the doping if they'd just get on with it and serve already!

zagor · Feb 11, 2012

The Hype said:
My problem with this argument is this: Everybody on PEDS is not the same as everybody off PEDS. Everybody on PEDS allows Novak and Rafa to play their grinding, attritional tennis for 5 - 6 hours, match after match and ultimately win out. If they were not on PEDS could they play this way and dominate against a clean field? Would a faster attacking energy saving game like Federer or Delpo (i'm not saying their clean) dominate in this environment? I think it would.

There's not a tennis playing style out there that wouldn't benefit from doping, maybe you have a point that some might benefit more than others but I don't think the difference is significant.

You think it wouldn't benefit Delpo to be able to hit the ball hard in 4th and 5th set the way he could in the 1st? Also Fed in his day was known for having great defense as well, not to mention that he does a lot of running against Nadal (Nadal quite often puts him on the defensive during a rally).

Just to remind you, here's a 45 shot rally between Fed and Hewitt years back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubmmOPuuGYc

The Hype · Feb 11, 2012

TTMR said:
There's always the option of speeding up the courts a little and/or converting to lighter balls. Both of those are more feasible than realistically removing PEDs from the sport, especially in the upper echelons.

I agree. More court surface diversity.

TTMR said:
I also disagree with your idea that Nadal and Djokovic only dominate because they play a "grinding, attritional" game. They are the best at adapting to current conditions. When they play each other, they are both so fast it turns into a war of attrition because the courts and balls do not enable them to hit through each other.

Nadal played attacking tennis, including some serve and volley at Wimbledon 2008, and that was one of his best performances ever. Djokovic is an aggressive, offensive baseliner who only differs from the 6'5 giants like Soderling and Del Potro because he is also able to defend brilliantly and can take cuts on both sides of the ball, not just the forehand, while Soderling and Del Potro just give up on a lot more balls, making them appear less like 'defensive-minded' players.

I've also never seen Federer gasping for air in five set matches, even when he is running around on the baseline going toe to toe with Nadal and Djokovic. Does Nicolas Mahut look clean to you? He runs around like a jackrabbit after three continuous days of tennis. Yet he plays 'attacking' tennis. Linking playing style with PED use is highly tendentious.

Yes they are very talented tennis players. Novak, especially, is an incredibly diverse player. And yes they have "adapted" to modern conditions. What I am saying is: Would tennis look the same if you took out the PEDS? Take out the PEDS and you remove a major facet of the Novak/Rafa game: the superhuman stamina and thus the defence. (yes, all the other players defence would also suffer)

Okay, let's say all the top ten are doped. The top ten is currently:

Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray, Ferrer, Tsonga, Berdych, Fish, Tipso, Delpo in that order.

Now let's say they are all absolutely clean. Does it look the same? Can Novak, Rafa and Murray chase all those incredible lost causes game after game, match after match? Would Rafa become more attacking? Where would pat-a-cake Murray be if his stamina was compromised? Would Berdych be No.1?:shock:

Tabash · Feb 11, 2012

Clarky21 said:
Now where's FrankenCvac's surprise test?

Had one a couple of months ago, at 8 o'clock one morning. We heard about it then...Surprised his biggest hater didn't...

Murrayfan31 · Feb 11, 2012

So when are they going to do the right tests which will test Nadal positive.

Clarky21 · Feb 11, 2012

Tabash said:
Had one a couple of months ago, at 8 o'clock one morning. We heard about it then...Surprised his biggest hater didn't...

You honestly believe that one single test from months and months ago is sufficient? Get outta here.

And nope,I don't like FrankenCvac,but my dislike of him pales in comparison to the Nadal hate around here. I guess you missed the title of this thread,started by one of Nadal's biggest detractors. Call em' all out,if you're gonna try to play board police.

CocaCola · Feb 11, 2012

Mustard said:
It's not enough for the witch-hunters. They're convinced any positive tests are just covered up. It's okay for people to believe that if they wish, but when they start throwing around baseless accusations, especially when they mention names, it kills the sport.

+1

10absolutelyagrees.

The Hype · Feb 11, 2012

zagor said:
There's not a tennis playing style out there that wouldn't benefit from doping, maybe you have a point that some might benefit more than others but I don't think the difference is significant.

You think it wouldn't benefit Delpo to be able to hit the ball hard in 4th and 5th set the way he could in the 1st? Also Fed in his day was known for having great defense as well, not to mention that he does a lot of running against Nadal (Nadal quite often puts him on the defensive during a rally).

Just to remind you, here's a 45 shot rally between Fed and Hewitt years back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubmmOPuuGYc

Agree with you. ALL players benefit from usage. There's so many sides to PEDS the speed, power, stamina, recovery, alertness so my argument looks a bit one dimensional when i say: take out this and this would happen. But I cant be as sure as you that the difference between players is minimal and things would look like they do now. I just can't be that certain.

Hood_Man · Feb 11, 2012

Murrayfan31 said:
So when are they going to do the right tests which will test Nadal positive.

The French Tennis Association are planning on introducing a potassium test for all athletes at this years French Open. Any trace of potassium in a players system will result in an instant ban from the tournament.

"Say what?"

rommil · Feb 11, 2012

Murrayfan31 said:
So when are they going to do the right tests which will test Nadal positive.

They should test him for crack...........he sniffs it all the time.

sureshs · Feb 11, 2012

Federer should get a surprise drug test

Crisstti · Feb 11, 2012

Nathaniel_Near said:
They get surprise tested infrequently and thus there are plenty of chances for players to dope and get it out of their system quickly. Also, it's thought that people who are caught will often only incur silent bans and agreements providing they are a high enough profile player. It's been suggested that this is what happened with Agassi just before the 2002 AO began, where he suddenly withdrew citing a wrist injury (or maybe it was 2003).

Good God

:?

The Hype said:
The only way that the ITF will be considered to be taking doping seriously is if they start blood profiling the top players a la pro cyclists. Occasional urine tests are a joke that anyone with half a brain could get around. Blood tests are irrelevant if its simply to detect a substance. Micro doses of epo are out of the body in 8 hours, transfusions with your own blood are undetectable. The only way forward for tennis is blood profiling. MONITOR THEIR HEMOTOCRIT LEVEL THROUGH THE SLAMS.

Not a bad idea.

TearTheRoofOff said:
As for the timing of this test for Nadal, it is convenient since it is following a frankly absurd scuffle between France and Spain over a comedy skit, and Nadal most likely isn't in training right now to supposedly nurse a shoulder injury (itself being suspect). Even Nadal referred to it as 'expected' which seems odd for a 'surprise test'. Not to mention he said he 'passed' the test, which is a little farfetched on such short notice, unless it was 'passed a sample' or words to that effect lost in translation. He was also happy about it. This is probably the first time in 'the history' .

He obviously referred to it as expected exactly because of what you mention: the scuffle over the comedy skit.

Crisstti · Feb 11, 2012

Regardless, the testing overall is most incompetent and Nadal has had dubious timing with a vast amount of injuries and such already in his career that is is difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt and not at least be wary of these things.

Nonsense. There's nothing dubious about the "timing" of his injuries.

TearTheRoofOff said:
In which case, his shoulder injury was almost certainly a lie, which doesn't bode well for his credibility. Still, the timing of the test after the laughably high profile happenings regarding the skits, as if to say 'look i'm clean' seems way too suspect. Once in a blue moon the test is at a reasonable time and it's THIS good? Food for thought.

Lol, so him no longer being injured makes his injury "almost certainly a lie".

As I said above, Nadal also thinks the timing of the test is suspect and influenced by what has happened. Hence his comment about it being expected.

I can't believe some people actually missed this.

Benhur said:
Quite right. And the forum would be thousands of pages lighter and easier to browse through if those obsessions went away. But for those afflicted with these kinds of obsessions, the expression of hatred probably has a highly therapeutic value. Maybe a new section should be created to maintain that beneficial function. A section called General Pro Player Hating Vent, or something like that, where denigration of players, freedom of calumnation, and wild insults between fans could be given free rein. Just an idea.

Lol

SLD76 · Feb 11, 2012

Mustard said:
And it'll be negative. Again. But still the whispers and witch-hunts will continue.

you are not that big a **** so I can only assume you are hugely naive when it comes to drugs and sports testing.

Have you not read any of the articles posted on this very site in regards how cheaters routinely are miles ahead of testing?

People see what they want to see I guess.

Not saying nadal is doping but your assurance that a negative test means someone is clean is just naive in the extreme.

Nathaniel_Near · Feb 11, 2012

Ugh.. the king of constantly quoting everything everybody says is back to enlighten us. Oh noes.

cc0509 · Feb 11, 2012

zagor said:
Of course it is, next they will ban some journeyman like Kendrick and the sheep will satisfied in their belief that the ITF is doing their job.

That said I don't agree with Nadal getting singled out everytime people discuss doping in tennis, if he's doping you better believe other top players are as well (yes even Fed with his "effortless" game).

Totally agree. It is stupidity and ****ism at its finest to suggest only Nadal is doping because the reality is that most likely ALL(and I do mean ALL) are doping currently or have in the past.

cc0509 · Feb 11, 2012

Fate Archer said:
This is an obvious PR stunt to show the public that anti-doping visits exist, no matter how pathetic the current procedure is.

100%. There are a lot of dumb f---s out there who believe everything they read. The timing is just too coincidental.

cc0509 · Feb 11, 2012

SLD76 said:
you are not that big a **** so I can only assume you are hugely naive when it comes to drugs and sports testing.

Have you not read any of the articles posted on this very site in regards how cheaters routinely are miles ahead of testing?

People see what they want to see I guess.

Not saying nadal is doping but your assurance that a negative test means someone is clean is just naive in the extreme.

+1............

tusharlovesrafa · Feb 11, 2012

Crisstti said:
Nonsense. There's nothing dubious about the "timing" of his injuries.

Lol, so him no longer being injured makes his injury "almost certainly a lie".

As I said above, Nadal also thinks the timing of the test is suspect and influenced by what has happened. Hence his comment about it being expected.

I can't believe some people actually missed this.

Lol

Amazing chrisstti..There is no point arguing with dumb people out here..Some people act as a 1 year child whos toy has been taken away from them.They cry foul at everything rafa does..
I hope rafa comes back and wins both IW and MIAMI and makes more excuses just to screw children down here..

celoft · Feb 11, 2012

sureshs said:
Federer should get a surprise drug test

He's not the one rumored to be juicing like Nadal and Djokovic.

OddJack said:
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/...rise-drug-test-follows-tv-skit/#ixzz1m5Q01UXq

CMM said:
http://twitter.com/#!/DjokerNole/status/127293845921730560

Nathaniel_Near · Feb 11, 2012

tusharlovesrafa said:
Amazing chrisstti..There is no point arguing with dumb people out here..Some people act as a 1 year child whos toy has been taken from taken.They cry foul at everything rafa does..
I hope rafa comes back and wins both IW and MIAMI and makes more excuses just to screw children down here..

Vamos!

Four

Larrysümmers · Feb 11, 2012

so what happens if it comes up + for something like pot? is that just frowned upon, or would they suspend him from the atp for that

Atherton2003 · Feb 11, 2012

How can it be a "surprise test"? Nadal would only have been "surprised" if they didn't come to test him. He wouldn't be dumb enough to do anything wrong since all this hullaballoo and also he's not currently in any tournament.

celoft · Feb 11, 2012

The Hype said:
Take out the PEDS and you remove a major facet of the Novak/Rafa game: the superhuman stamina and thus the defence.

Maybe Murray should start taking PEDs. With superhuman stamina he might finally win a slam.

Tony48 · Feb 11, 2012

celoft said:
He's not the one rumored to be juicing like Nadal and Djokovic.

Oh wow. The most popular and beloved tennis player of all time is not rumored to be juicing, yet the guys who kick his ass up and down the court are.

YOU DON'T SAY!

TTMR · Feb 11, 2012

The Hype said:
Agree with you. ALL players benefit from usage. There's so many sides to PEDS the speed, power, stamina, recovery, alertness so my argument looks a bit one dimensional when i say: take out this and this would happen. But I cant be as sure as you that the difference between players is minimal and things would look like they do now. I just can't be that certain.

Nobody is assuming the distribution of ranking positions would be identical to now. We can't know at all what a 'clean' tour would look like. Perhaps Federer's surprisingly high level of tennis at the age of 30 is due to some chemical assistance. You can't simply accuse every so-called 'grinder' (though I don't think Nadal and especially Djokovic are grinders, they are only grinders against each other and maybe against Murray and Ferrer) of using because of their style of play. Primarily defensive players have led the sport before: Hewitt, Ferrero, Kafelnikov, Wilander, Borg.

It's impossible to eliminate PED usage from the sport. Tennis is an individual sport, whose drawing power is the top stars. The ITF cannot afford to suspend Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. It would cost the sport millions. Permit PED use to end suspicions of collusion and scapegoating.

calgarywolf · Feb 11, 2012

jackson vile said:
Oh, I'm sorry. Did you actually have anything to actually support your argument? If not, you post is no greater than a silly cat gif.

Proof is there, you just choose to ignore it all the way.. boy..

celoft · Feb 11, 2012

Tony48 said:
Oh wow. The most popular and beloved tennis player of all time is not rumored to be juicing, yet the guys who kick his ass up and down the court are.

YOU DON'T SAY!

Even Stevie Wonder can see they are juicing, ffs.

Tony48 · Feb 11, 2012

celoft said:
Even Stevie Wonder can see they are juicing, ffs.

Fed fans are a bitter breed.

Crisstti · Feb 11, 2012

celoft said:
Even Stevie Wonder can see they are juicing, ffs.

You mean he's a Fed fan?

Nathaniel_Near · Feb 11, 2012

Tony48 said:
Fed fans are a bitter breed.

Uncle Tony(i)?

Clarky21 · Feb 11, 2012

Nathaniel_Near said:
Uncle Tony(i)?

Marian Vajda?

Sid_Vicious · Feb 11, 2012

Crisstti said:
You mean he's a Fed fan?

Not all Federer fans are accusing Djokovic/Nadal of doping. Only pitiful and bitter ones like Dudeski and Celoft.

Additionally, lets not forget certain Nadal fans who started threads throughout 2011 about Djokovic's "suspicious" raise. One of them dubbed him "Dopevic"

Sid_Vicious · Feb 11, 2012

Clarky21 said:
Marian Vajda?

Severin Luthi?

celoft · Feb 11, 2012

Tony48 said:
Fed fans are a bitter breed.

Dijana, is that you?

Clarky21 · Feb 11, 2012

celoft said:
Dijana, is that you?

Robert,is that you? :lol:

Sid_Vicious · Feb 11, 2012

Clarky21 said:
Robert,is that you? :lol:

C'mon. Mario Fed is just awesome. Mirka is a better guess.

celoft · Feb 11, 2012

Clarky21 said:
Robert,is that you? :lol:

Nah. I'm not Super Mario.

Clarky Gable.

Crisstti · Feb 11, 2012

Sid_Vicious said:
Not all Federer fans are accusing Djokovic/Nadal of doping. Only pitiful and bitter ones like Dudeski and Celoft.

Additionally, lets not forget certain Nadal fans who started threads throughout 2011 about Djokovic's "suspicious" raise. One of them dubbed him "Dopevic"

I know, I'm sorry, should have said "bitter Fed fan".

The Hype · Feb 11, 2012

TTMR said:
Perhaps Federer's surprisingly high level of tennis at the age of 30 is due to some chemical assistance.

Could well be. He has great stamina.

TTMR said:
You can't simply accuse every so-called 'grinder' (though I don't think Nadal and especially Djokovic are grinders, they are only grinders against each other and maybe against Murray and Ferrer) of using because of their style of play. Primarily defensive players have led the sport before: Hewitt, Ferrero, Kafelnikov, Wilander, Borg.

Im not singling out grinders as users. Im saying the effects it would have on their games would be greating when it comes to PEDS or no PEDS. Stamina is such a huge factor. Don't you think there would be a whole different dynamic to a match like, say, Nadal vs Delpo where in one they where both doped and in another they where both clean?

TTMR said:
It's impossible to eliminate PED usage from the sport. Tennis is an individual sport, whose drawing power is the top stars. The ITF cannot afford to suspend Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. It would cost the sport millions. Permit PED use to end suspicions of collusion and scapegoating.

If this happened without monitoring it would escalate pretty quickly, players ramping up there blood values to crazy levels trying to get an advantage a la nineties cycling. That why the ITF need to keep profiles on the players blood work, at least at the slams. It will at least keep things safe if they go down that road of everyone doping.

jackson vile · Feb 11, 2012

Sid_Vicious said:
Not all Federer fans are accusing Djokovic/Nadal of doping. Only pitiful and bitter ones like Dudeski and Celoft.

Additionally, lets not forget certain Nadal fans who started threads throughout 2011 about Djokovic's "suspicious" raise. One of them dubbed him "Dopevic"

Aphex is the one that started that epic thread that was deleted by my request. That thing was huge and the "****s" if you will were livid. That is why I use the term ****s, plenty of reasonable Federer fans which are quite classy people.

ben123 · Feb 11, 2012

when i read things like

And it'll be negative. Again. But still the whispers and witch-hunts will continue.

These guys are being surprise tested almost all around the whole year. Proves more and more they are clean as can be.

im thinkin most humans are stupid and not able to think for themselves. i want to stop read threads.

it doesnt matter at all if people like nadal or djokovic get "tested". i could say so many things now...

just look at agassi who took drugs but the officials saved him and didnt tell the public. they dont want those stars to look bad. no matter how often they will get tested cleanly it doesnt matter at all. its a whole joke. better save the money and do something else with it. but noo then it would be too obvious

o... besides this djokovic nadal etc are rich. they wont take some cheap crap drug .. do you guys really think the world is so simple? they have money they have a team they will do everything as precisely as they can to stay successfull and that means if they take drugs they will take stuff that the testers cant find anyways. i dont know why people dont get this in their head.

soo many people who just believe everything they get to hear from the news etc... thats why you need a king and a government because you are not capable of thinking on your own you need someone who thinks for you so that you can have your little happy life

Bartelby · Feb 11, 2012

OddJack · Feb 11, 2012

ben123 said:
when i read things like

im thinkin most humans are stupid and not able to think for themselves. i want to stop read threads.

it doesnt matter at all if people like nadal or djokovic get "tested". i could say so many things now...

just look at agassi who took drugs but the officials saved him and didnt tell the public. they dont want those stars to look bad. no matter how often they will get tested cleanly it doesnt matter at all. its a whole joke. better save the money and do something else with it. but noo then it would be too obvious o... besides this djokovic nadal etc are rich. they wont take some cheap crap drug .. do you guys really think the world is so simple? they have money they have a team they will do everything as precisely as they can to stay successfull and that means if they take drugs they will take stuff that the testers cant find anyways. i dont know why people dont get this in their head.

soo many people who just believe everything they get to hear from the news etc... thats why you need a king and a government because you are not capable of thinking on your own you need someone who thinks for you so that you can have your little happy life

Yes, Mr Einstein, you are correct. People can be naive or stupid.

But you do understand that

" ITF can cover up"

or

"Players are light years ahead of testing"

still does not equal " Nadal, or Djoker, or whoever, are doping.

What do you say to

"success means you are doping"

?

Should we automatically assume that Federer's 237 weeks on top was the result of doping?

Or can we say if Brazilians have won more world cups thats because they do drugs?

see, people on both sides of this argument can be naive.

ben123 · Feb 11, 2012

OddJack said:
But you do understand that or still does not equal " Nadal, or Djoker, or whoever, are doping.

What do you say to ?

Should we automatically assume that Federer's 237 weeks on top was the result of doping?

Or can we say if Brazilians have won more world cups thats because they do drugs?

see, people on both sides of this argument can be naive.

but i never said they are doping
i used the names djokovic and nadal simply because i saw them in this thread and to have some kind of example

we dont know if they dope. possibly they do. and ofc its not only the big 4

OddJack · Feb 11, 2012

ben123 said:
but i never said they are doping
i used the names djokovic and nadal simply because i saw them in this thread and to have some kind of example

we dont know if they dope. possibly they do. and ofc its not only the big 4

I agree with " we dont know"

"Possibley they do, and not only the big 4" is an opinion, ofc. But u are basing it on their success. Nobody suspects Pablo Andujar because he is ranked 46 and since he is from Spain there are only two possibilities: Either if he was not doping he would not be in top 100. Or, the fact that he is 46th and doping he is just not good enough.

Let me ask you this. Would you suspect Russian women are doping? There is no nation more successful than Russians in WTA. Would you say the same thing? ...Possibly they do?

ben123 · Feb 11, 2012

OddJack said:
I agree with " we dont know"

"Possibley they do, and not only the big 4" is an opinion, ofc. But u are basing it on their success. Nobody suspects Pablo Andujar because he is ranked 46 and since he is from Spain there are only two possibilities: Either if he was not doping he would not be in top 100. Or, the fact that he is 46th and doping he is just not good enough.

Let me ask you this. Would you suspect Russian women are doping? There is no nation more successful than Russians in WTA. Would you say the same thing? ...Possibly they do?

eh i dunno if you actually got me right. i dont suspect any specific player or nation. i suspect every pro.

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