Best and 2nd best players of every decade- men and women

kiki

kiki

Banned
1970CRBase said:
Take Mecir for example, will he make best 10 of the 80's? 1987 Lipton was a strong field, almost like a slam, and he did win Olympics. Can that put him over Chang's 1989?
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I´ll play a little game with you.Change 1989 and 1990 RG and give Gomez the 1989 title and Chang the 1990.It would be more representative.

Gomez joins Cash,Noah and Kriek in my fourth tier of the decade.

Mecir, as good as he was, would come as nº 11.

In anycase, a helluva competition.No wonder it is still recognised as the Golden Era of tennis...
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
1970CRBase said:
Take Mecir for example, will he make best 10 of the 80's? 1987 Lipton was a strong field, almost like a slam, and he did win Olympics. Can that put him over Chang's 1989?
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Unless you think Chang's major puts him over Mecir, then Mecir is better in the 1980s. Mecir's wins over Lendl in the 1987 Miami final, McEnroe in the 1987 WCT Dallas final, and his long list of crushing wins over Wilander, show how dangerous he was to any player on his day.
 
1

1970CRBase

Guest
sandy mayer said:
i'd say Connors was definitely ahead of lendl in the first half of the eighties. Mac is one for the first half with Connors 2. Lendl is 1 for the second half with Becker 2. I think Becker's 4 slams in 85-89 beats Wilander's 4 slams in the same period (due to the Australian having less prestige in those days) and also I just think Becker was better over the period. 89 was a really poor year for Wilander.
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Becker won 3W's which I think might equal (or better) Wilander's triple slam 88. But Becker also won Masters. Also, Becker's peak best should be better than Wilander's showed by the fact that Becker dominates their h2h 6-2 in 80's 7-3 overall, HOWEVER, according to ATP, Wilander dominates their slam encounters, 3-0. Close one.

sorry 3Wims not 2.
 
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Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
With Becker, Wilander and Edberg, you can make a good case for any one of them being better than the other two.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
It was so really damn close between the top players of the 80´s: Borg vs Lendl,Mac or Connors.Mac and Lendl vs everybody.Edberg vs Becker and Wilnader, Wilander vs Becker or Edberg, Becker vs Lendl...any match between those 7 legends and all time greats ( and some of them never played against each other) were just pure gold, considering also the mixture of styles and characters.

hey, even Connors vs Becker or vs Edberg were terrific matches.
 
1

1970CRBase

Guest
Mustard said:
Unless you think Chang's major puts him over Mecir, then Mecir is better in the 1980s. Mecir's wins over Lendl in the 1987 Miami final, McEnroe in the 1987 WCT Dallas final, and his long list of crushing wins over Wilander, show how dangerous he was to any player on his day.
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If Mecir didn't win Miami, Dallas and Olympics; Chang's 1989 RG would put him over Mecir, a slam is a slam. But then Mecir's 80's record would likely put him over Noah also, if not Cash. (80's decade top 10)
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
1980´s top 25

1/Lendl
2/Mc Enroe
3/Becker
4/Wilander
5/Borg
6/Connors
7/Edberg
8/Cash

9/Kriek
10/Gomez
11/Noah
12/Mecir
13/Jarryd
14/Teacher
15/Curren
16/Leconte

17/Mayotte
18/Arias
19/Gilbert
20/Nystrom
21/Clerc
22/Higueras
23/Pernfors
24/Krickstein
25/Mayer

S&V:Mac,Becker,Edberg,Cash
All round: Connors,Kriek
Baseline:Borg,Lendl,Wilander

a helluva decade,as I said.
 
1

1970CRBase

Guest
Mustard said:
With Becker, Wilander and Edberg, you can make a good case for any one of them being better than the other two.
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After the last day of 1984, from the first day of 1985 to the last day of 1989, these three all have a case to be second best behind Lendl, but overall 80's Wilander is better than both.
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
1980´s top 25

1/Lendl
2/Mc Enroe
3/Becker
4/Wilander
5/Borg
6/Connors
7/Edberg
8/Cash

9/Kriek
10/Gomez
11/Noah
12/Mecir
13/Jarryd
14/Teacher
15/Curren
16/Leconte

17/Mayotte
18/Arias
19/Gilbert
20/Nystrom
21/Clerc
22/Higueras
23/Pernfors
24/Krickstein
25/Mayer

S&V:Mac,Becker,Edberg,Cash
All round: Connors,Kriek
Baseline:Borg,Lendl,Wilander

a helluva decade,as I said.
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Yes it was a fun decade.:)

Number 12 there should have accomplished far more. Mecir was one of my all time favorites. :(
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
1970CRBase said:
After the last day of 1984, from the first day of 1985 to the last day of 1989, these three all have a case to be second best behind Lendl, but overall 80's Wilander is better than both.
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I think Edberg was a split player 1980-1990, which was not the case with Wilander ( a pure 1980´s product) and not so much Becker ( who won bigger in the 80´s, although laso got some major wins in the 1990´s).In the whole decade, Edberg fels short of Becker and Wilander.If we consider HTIER WHOLE CAREER, then, Edberg could be on equal terms.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
Mustard said:
With Becker, Wilander and Edberg, you can make a good case for any one of them being better than the other two.
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Do you mean overall careers.

As for the overall 80s it is clearly Wilander > Becker > Edberg without a doubt.

For the second half of the 80s it is probably the same order, although Wilander and Becker are closer.

For overall careers yeah all 3 are very close.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
NadalAgassi said:
Do you mean overall careers.

As for the overall 80s it is clearly Wilander > Becker > Edberg without a doubt.

For the second half of the 80s it is probably the same order, although Wilander and Becker are closer.

For overall careers yeah all 3 are very close.
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Yeah, I meant whole careers. In the 1980s, I agree it's Wilander, then Becker then Edberg.
 
T

timnz

Legend
Agassi's record lacking some highlights

Mustard said:
I agree.

At the end of 1998, their records were:

Jim Courier
1991 and 1992 French Open champion
1992 and 1993 Australian Open champion
1991 and 1993 Indian Wells champion
Runner-up of the 1991 US Open and 1993 Wimbledon
1992 and 1993 Rome champion
1991 Miami champion
2-time runner-up of the World Championships (now World Tour Finals)
Year end number 1 for 1992
58 weeks as world number 1 in total

Andre Agassi
1992 Wimbledon champion
1994 US Open champion
1995 Australian Open champion
1990, 1995 and 1996 Miami champion
1992, 1994 and 1995 Canada champion
1995 and 1996 Cincinnati champion
1996 Olympic singles gold medalist
1994 Paris Indoor champion
1990 World Championships winner
1998 Grand Slam Cup runner-up
32 weeks as world number 1 in total
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You rightly put in a lot of Couriers runner-up (because being a runner up at an important tournament is still an achievement) but you left off significant entries against Agassi in that nature

To Agassi's list you could add

French Open Runner-up 1990 and 1991
US Open Runner-up 1990 and 1995
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
timnz said:
You rightly put in a lot of Couriers runner-up (because being a runner up at an important tournament is still an achievement) but you left off significant entries against Agassi in that nature

To Agassi's list you could add

French Open Runner-up 1990 and 1991
US Open Runner-up 1990 and 1995
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Yes. Sorry about that. I think it's clear that Courier's record is better than Agassi's at the end of 1998.
 
1

1970CRBase

Guest
In my system, true best 10 of a decade decides who is true 1 and 2 of the same, in a case like 80's men where it is particularly close overall (Mac with his 1984, Lendl having more consistency at the top). This being based on true 10 of each year, NOT necessarily year ending top 10, just like true #1 is not always year ending 1. So best of a year has 10 "decade" points to count towards best of a decade, next best has 9 points and so on. IN TURN, best of a decade also has 10 "history" points to count towards being best in history, next best have 9 etc, because players carry over to the next decade (please no goats) Of course, Agassi is not top 10 80's even if he is 2 or 3 for 90's so in the 80's he gets no history points but in the 90's he gets either 9 or 8 points.

If Serena, for example, ends up best in 2000's and 2010s, she gets 10 + 10.
 
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1

1970CRBase

Guest
btw, in my view going by this system, tier one players are best of their decade, slams, w/L etc count towards that but are not what separate tiers in themselves. So, for example, Court, Evert, Navratilova, Graf and Serena are all tier 1, Bueno, King, Seles, Henin and Venus are all tier 2. But I do not place BJK and Serena in the same bracket solely based on counting their number of slams.

I know many wouldn't agree, but just to raise a point.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
kiki said:
Courier owned Agassi in the first half of the 90´s.He even got to number 1.But declined fastly.

IMO,Agassi´s peak came from 1995 to 2000 or so.He won 2002 and 2003 AO in weak fields against slouch players...and still managed to be Fed´s main opposition for some time.
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agassi sucked big time from 96-98, even falling to #137 or so in that period .. .... he was far better from 2001-2005 than he was in 96-98

his best times were second half of 94-95 end and mid 99 to start of 2000 ...

after that phases in the end of 80s, early 90s and 2001-2005 ....

96 to 98 was his worst phase ...

oh and agassi didn't even play in 2002 AO... he won 2001 AO and 2003 AO
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
1996 was more of a mixed year for Agassi. He had clearly gone backwards considerably compared to 1995, but he still won Miami, Cincinnati and Olympic gold in Atlanta, but did very poorly at the French Open and Wimbledon, and had two straight sets losses to Chang in the semi finals of the hardcourt majors. His ranking was more in the lower half of the top 10.

After that loss to Chang at the 1996 US Open, he went really downhill, as low as 141 in the world by the 10th November 1997. But then he started putting his past disappointments into their correct perspective and started getting serious about tennis again, and shot back up the rankings in 1998.
 
T

tudwell

G.O.A.T.
Mustard said:
2010s (so far): Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic
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This is an interesting comparison:

Djokovic:
4 major titles (2 Australian Opens, 1 Wimbledon, 1 U.S. Open); 1 runner-up
6 Masters titles (4 hard court, 2 clay); 2 runners-up
14 titles overall; 4 runners-up
47 weeks at number one

Nadal:
4 major titles (2 French Opens, 1 Wimbledon, 1 U.S. Open); 3 runners-up
5 Masters titles (5 clay); 4 runners-up
12 titles overall; 10 runners-up
56 weeks at number one

Additionally, they both have one Davis Cup title and Nadal has a final at the WTF, whereas Djokovic has yet to go beyond the semis in this decade.

They're pretty damn close, but I think Nadal edges Djokovic, at least at the moment. It will be interesting to see the pair's stats at the end of the year.

And for comparison, here's Federer:
1 major title (1 Australian Open); 1 runner-up
4 Masters titles (3 hard court, 1 clay); 3 runners-up
2 WTF titles
13 titles; 6 runners-up
22 weeks at number one
 
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R

rufus_smith

Professional
NadalAgassi said:
Fair point. Half decades then:

First Half 20s: Best women Lenglen, 2nd best women Mallorey. Best man Bill Tilden, 2nd best man Bill Johnson

Second Half 20s: Best women Helen Wills Moody, 2nd best women Lenglen. Best man Rene LaCoste, 2nd Best man Henri Cochet

First Half 30s: Best man Elsworth Vines, 2nd best man Jack Crawford. Best women, Best women Helen Wills Moody, 2nd best women Helen Jacobs

Second Half 30s: Best man Donald Budge, 2nd best man Fred Perry. Best women Alice Marble, 2nd best women Helen Wills Moody

First Half 40s: Best man Donald Budge, 2nd best man Bobby Riggs. Best women Pauline Betz, 2nd best women Sarah Palfrey

Second Half 40s: Best man Jack Kramer, 2nd best man Bobby Riggs. Best women Margaret Osborne Du Pont, 2nd best women Louise Brough

First Half 50s: Best man Jack Kramer, 2nd best man Pancho Gonzalez. Best women Maureen Connolly, 2nd best women Doris Hart

Second Half 50s: Best man Pancho Gonzales, 2nd best man Lew Hoad. Best women Shirley Fry, 2nd best women Althea Gibson

First Half 60s: Best man Ken Rosewall, 2nd best man Rod Laver. Best women
Margaret Court, 2nd best women Maria Bueno

Second Half 60s: Best man Rod Laver, 2nd best man Ken Rosewall. Best women Billie Jean King, 2nd best women Margaret Court

First Half 70s: Best man John Newcombe, 2nd best man Jimmy Connors. Best women Margaret Court, 2nd best women Billie Jean King

Second Half 70s: Best man Bjorn Borg, 2nd best man Jimmy Connors. Best women Chris Evert, 2nd best women Evonne Goolagong

First Half 80s: Best man John McEnroe, 2nd best man Bjorn Borg, Best women
Martina Navratilova, 2nd Best women Chris Evert

Second Half 80s: Best man Ivan Lendl, 2nd best man Boris Becker. Best women Steffi Graf, 2nd best women Martina Navratilova

First Half 90s: Best man Pete Sampras, 2nd best man Jim Courier. Best women Steffi Graf, 2nd best women Monica Seles.

Second Half 90s: Best man Pete Sampras, 2nd best man Andre Agassi. Best women Steffi Graf, 2nd best women Martina Hingis.

First Half 2000s: Best man Roger Federer, 2nd best man Lleyton Hewitt. Best women Serena Williams, 2nd best women Venus Williams.

Second Half 2000s: Best man Roger Federer, 2nd best man Rafael Nadal. Best women Justine Henin, 2nd best women Serena Williams.
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Thanks. Maybe it is more plausible this way.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
1920-1924: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1925-1929: Rene Lacoste, Henri Cochet
1930-1934: Ellsworth Vines, Jack Crawford
1935-1939: Don Budge, Ellsworth Vines
1940-1944: Don Budge, Bobby Riggs
1945-1949: Jack Kramer, Bobby Riggs
1950-1954: Jack Kramer, Pancho Segura
1955-1959: Pancho Gonzales, Lew Hoad
1960-1964: Ken Rosewall, Rod Laver
1965-1969: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1970-1974: John Newcombe, Jimmy Connors
1975-1979: Bjorn Borg, Jimmy Connors
1980-1984: John McEnroe, Jimmy Connors
1985-1989: Ivan Lendl, Boris Becker
1990-1994: Pete Sampras, Jim Courier
1995-1999: Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi
2000-2004: Roger Federer, Lleyton Hewitt
2005-2009: Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal
2010-2012 (so far): Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic

Not the easiest list to do. I was thinking about Sedgman in the both 1950s periods, Gonzales in 1950-1954 and 1960-1964, and Rosewall in 1970-1974. Budge and Vines in 1935-1939 wasn't easy either.
 
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kiki

kiki

Banned
pc1 said:
Yes it was a fun decade.:)

Number 12 there should have accomplished far more. Mecir was one of my all time favorites. :(
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Talent wise, he´d be my nº 8, advancing Pat Cash.I´d have loved seeing the Big Cat against the Ice Man.The only 80´s great he never faced.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
NadalAgassi said:
Do you mean overall careers.

As for the overall 80s it is clearly Wilander > Becker > Edberg without a doubt.

For the second half of the 80s it is probably the same order, although Wilander and Becker are closer.

For overall careers yeah all 3 are very close.
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Edberg fares better in the 90´s, his record is split between 80´s and 90´s.But, if we just consider 80´s he is weaker than Wilander and Becker.Now, I think Boris edges Mats as far as 1980´s play is concerned.The difference: indoors (Dallas and New York Masters)...and I am not entering DC play...
 
1

1970CRBase

Guest
Even if you go by half a decade, and call it a tie with one with each half, like in the 60's men, Laver is clearly ahead of Rosewall in the 60's with his 2 cygs.

I think going by half decades still produces best overall in a decade but that half a decade is best for comparing who is second best over all in the same decade. eg : 90's Agassi vs Courier.
 
TopFH

TopFH

Hall of Fame
NadalAgassi said:
Going back to every decade starting in the 1920s who do you think were the best and 2nd best players of every decade. Mine would be:

Men:

1920s: best Bill Tilden, 2nd best Rene LaCoste
1930s: best Don Budge, 2nd best Fred Perry
1940s: best Jack Kramer, 2nd best Bobby Riggs
1950s: best Pancho Gonzales, 2nd best Frank Sedgeman
1960s: best Rod Laver, 2nd best Ken Rosewall
1970s: best Bjorn Borg, 2nd best Jimmy Connors
1980s: best John McEnroe, 2nd best Ivan Lendl
1990s: best Pete Sampras, 2nd best Jim Courier
2000s: best Roger Federer, 2nd best Rafael Nadal


Women:

1920: best Suzanne Lenglen, 2nd best Helen Wills Moody
1930s: best Helen Wills Moody, 2nd best Alice Marble
1940s: best Pauline Betz, 2nd best Margaret Osborne Du Pont
1950s: best Maureen Connolly, 2nd best Doris Hart
1960s: best Margaret Court, 2nd best Maria Bueno
1970s: best Margaret Court, 2nd best Chris Evert
1980s: best Martina Navratilova, 2nd best Steffi Graf
1990s: best Steffi Graf, 2nd best Martina Hingis
2000s: best Serena Williams, 2nd best Justine Henin
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First time I agree with you.
 
1

1970CRBase

Guest
by half decades, in some cases we have a tie for 2nd, like with 2000's women. In some, one is better in one half, the other in the other half, like with 90's men, but overall, when you consider all the points, Agassi has a slightly stronger case to just edge Courier.
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
Talent wise, he´d be my nº 8, advancing Pat Cash.I´d have loved seeing the Big Cat against the Ice Man.The only 80´s great he never faced.
Click to expand...

There were a lot of people in those days who ranked Mecir number one in terms of pure talent. Who knows for sure? All I know was that I loved to watch him play. He could perform miracle shotmaking and his mobility was superhuman.
 
X

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
Half decades.
Men
70-74 1 Newcombe 2 Rosewall
75-79 1 Borg 2 Connors
80-84 1 McEnroe 2 Connors
85-89 1 Lendl 2 Becker
90-94 1 Sampras 2 Courier
95-99 1 Sampras 2 Agassi
2000-04 1 Federer 2 Hewitt
2005-09 1 Federer 2 Nadal

These are first impressions off the top of my head. I admire Rosewall for his longevity and career more than Nastase's (close though) and he reached both Wimbledon and US finals in his 40th year.
Connors for me is no.2 behind McEnroe for 80-84. Borg only figured for 80/81 at top level and Lendl didn't win a GS til 84, very much second best to Jimmy in that time period.
Becker is no.2 for 85-89 behind Lendl, ahead of Wilander.
I lost interest in the 90's!!, but Federer is the man since 2000
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
I'll do it per year as well:

My top 2 tennis players per year
1919: Bill Johnston, Bill Tilden
1920: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1921: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1922: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1923: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1924: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1925: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1926: Rene Lacoste, Jean Borotra
1927: Rene Lacoste, Bill Tilden
1928: Henri Cochet, Rene Lacoste
1929: Henri Cochet, Rene Lacoste
1930: Henri Cochet, Bill Tilden
1931: Bill Tilden, Ellsworth Vines
1932: Ellsworth Vines, Bill Tilden
1933: Jack Crawford, Fred Perry
1934: Ellsworth Vines, Fred Perry
1935: Ellsworth Vines, Fred Perry
1936: Ellsworth Vines, Fred Perry
1937: Ellsworth Vines, Fred Perry
1938: Ellsworth Vines, Don Budge
1939: Don Budge, Ellsworth Vines
1940: Don Budge, Fred Perry
1941: Fred Perry, Bobby Riggs
1942: Don Budge, Bobby Riggs
1943: ??????
1944: Bobby Riggs, Don Budge
1945: Bobby Riggs, Don Budge
1946: Bobby Riggs, Don Budge
1947: Bobby Riggs, Jack Kramer
1948: Jack Kramer, Bobby Riggs
1949: Jack Kramer, Bobby Riggs
1950: Jack Kramer, Pancho Segura
1951: Jack Kramer, Pancho Segura
1952: Pancho Segura, Pancho Gonzales
1953: Jack Kramer, Frank Sedgman
1954: Pancho Gonzales, Frank Sedgman
1955: Pancho Gonzales, Pancho Segura
1956: Pancho Gonzales, Frank Sedgman
1957: Pancho Gonzales, Pancho Segura
1958: Pancho Gonzales, Frank Sedgman
1959: Pancho Gonzales, Lew Hoad
1960: Pancho Gonzales, Ken Rosewall
1961: Pancho Gonzales, Ken Rosewall
1962: Ken Rosewall, Lew Hoad
1963: Ken Rosewall, Rod Laver
1964: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1965: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1966: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1967: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1968: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1969: Rod Laver, Tony Roche
1970: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1971: John Newcombe, Stan Smith
1972: Stan Smith, Ilie Nastase
1973: Ilie Nastase, John Newcombe
1974: Jimmy Connors, John Newcombe
1975: Arthur Ashe, Jimmy Connors
1976: Jimmy Connors, Bjorn Borg
1977: Guillermo Vilas, Bjorn Borg
1978: Bjorn Borg, Jimmy Connors
1979: Bjorn Borg, John McEnroe
1980: Bjorn Borg, John McEnroe
1981: John McEnroe, Bjorn Borg
1982: Jimmy Connors, Ivan Lendl
1983: John McEnroe, Mats Wilander
1984: John McEnroe, Jimmy Connors
1985: Ivan Lendl, John McEnroe
1986: Ivan Lendl, Boris Becker
1987: Ivan Lendl, Stefan Edberg
1988: Mats Wilander, Ivan Lendl
1989: Boris Becker, Ivan Lendl
1990: Stefan Edberg, Andre Agassi
1991: Stefan Edberg, Jim Courier
1992: Jim Courier, Stefan Edberg
1993: Pete Sampras, Jim Courier
1994: Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi
1995: Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi
1996: Pete Sampras, Boris Becker
1997: Pete Sampras, Patrick Rafter
1998: Pete Sampras, Marcelo Rios
1999: Andre Agassi, Pete Sampras
2000: Gustavo Kuerten, Marat Safin
2001: Lleyton Hewitt, Gustavo Kuerten
2002: Lleyton Hewitt, Andre Agassi
2003: Andy Roddick, Roger Federer
2004: Roger Federer, Lleyton Hewitt
2005: Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal
2006: Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal
2007: Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal
2008: Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer
2009: Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal
2010: Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer
2011: Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal

My top 2 amateur tennis players per year
1919: Bill Johnston, Bill Tilden
1920: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1921: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1922: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1923: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1924: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1925: Bill Tilden, Bill Johnston
1926: Rene Lacoste, Jean Borotra
1927: Rene Lacoste, Bill Tilden
1928: Henri Cochet, Rene Lacoste
1929: Henri Cochet, Rene Lacoste
1930: Henri Cochet, Bill Tilden
1931: Ellsworth Vines, Henri Cochet
1932: Ellsworth Vines, Henri Cochet
1933: Jack Crawford, Fred Perry
1934: Fred Perry, Jack Crawford
1935: Fred Perry, Jack Crawford
1936: Fred Perry, Gottfried von Cramm
1937: Don Budge, Gottfried von Cramm
1938: Don Budge, Bunny Austin
1939: Bobby Riggs, John Bromwich
1940: Don McNeill, Bobby Riggs
1941: Bobby Riggs, Frank Kovacs
1942: Ted Schroeder, Frank Parker
1943: Joseph Hunt, Jack Kramer
1944: Frank Parker, Bill Talbert
1945: Frank Parker, Bill Talbert
1946: Jack Kramer, John Bromwich
1947: Jack Kramer, Dinny Pails
1948: John Bromwich, Pancho Gonzales
1949: Pancho Gonzales, Ted Schroeder
1950: Budge Patty, Frank Sedgman
1951: Frank Sedgman, Dick Savitt
1952: Frank Sedgman, Jaroslav Drobny
1953: Tony Trabert, Ken Rosewall
1954: Jaroslav Drobny, Tony Trabert
1955: Tony Trabert, Ken Rosewall
1956: Lew Hoad, Ken Rosewall
1957: Lew Hoad, Ashley Cooper
1958: Ashley Cooper, Mal Anderson
1959: Alex Olmedo, Neale Fraser
1960: Neale Fraser, Rod Laver
1961: Roy Emerson, Rod Laver
1962: Rod Laver, Roy Emerson
1963: Roy Emerson, Chuck McKinley
1964: Roy Emerson, Fred Stolle
1965: Roy Emerson, Fred Stolle
1966: Fred Stolle, Manuel Santana
1967: John Newcombe, Roy Emerson

My top 2 professional tennis players per year
1927: Vinny Richards, Howard Kinsey
1928: Vinny Richards, Karel Kozeluh
1929: Karel Kozeluh, Vinny Richards
1930: Karel Kozeluh, Vinny Richards
1931: Bill Tilden, Vinny Richards
1932: Bill Tilden, Karel Kozeluh
1933: Bill Tilden, Hans Nusslein
1934: Ellsworth Vines, Hans Nusslein
1935: Ellsworth Vines, Hans Nusslein
1936: Ellsworth Vines, Hans Nusslein
1937: Ellsworth Vines, Fred Perry
1938: Ellsworth Vines, Hans Nusslein
1939: Don Budge, Ellsworth Vines
1940: Don Budge, Fred Perry
1941: Fred Perry, Dick Skeen
1942: Don Budge, Bobby Riggs
1943: ??????
1944: Bobby Riggs, Don Budge
1945: Bobby Riggs, Don Budge
1946: Bobby Riggs, Don Budge
1947: Bobby Riggs, Don Budge
1948: Jack Kramer, Bobby Riggs
1949: Jack Kramer, Bobby Riggs
1950: Jack Kramer, Pancho Segura
1951: Jack Kramer, Pancho Segura
1952: Pancho Segura, Pancho Gonzales
1953: Jack Kramer, Frank Sedgman
1954: Pancho Gonzales, Frank Sedgman
1955: Pancho Gonzales, Pancho Segura
1956: Pancho Gonzales, Frank Sedgman
1957: Pancho Gonzales, Pancho Segura
1958: Pancho Gonzales, Frank Sedgman
1959: Pancho Gonzales, Lew Hoad
1960: Pancho Gonzales, Ken Rosewall
1961: Pancho Gonzales, Ken Rosewall
1962: Ken Rosewall, Lew Hoad
1963: Ken Rosewall, Rod Laver
1964: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1965: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1966: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
1967: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall
 
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kiki

kiki

Banned
pc1 said:
There were a lot of people in those days who ranked Mecir number one in terms of pure talent. Who knows for sure? All I know was that I loved to watch him play. He could perform miracle shotmaking and his mobility was superhuman.
Click to expand...

I´d still give Mac the edge for shotmaking ability.Mecir is a second, and fanatstic second ( it just speaks volumes of JMac touch and creativity)
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Xavier G said:
Half decades.
Men
70-74 1 Newcombe 2 Rosewall
75-79 1 Borg 2 Connors
80-84 1 McEnroe 2 Connors
85-89 1 Lendl 2 Becker
90-94 1 Sampras 2 Courier
95-99 1 Sampras 2 Agassi
2000-04 1 Federer 2 Hewitt
2005-09 1 Federer 2 Nadal

These are first impressions off the top of my head. I admire Rosewall for his longevity and career more than Nastase's (close though) and he reached both Wimbledon and US finals in his 40th year.
Connors for me is no.2 behind McEnroe for 80-84. Borg only figured for 80/81 at top level and Lendl didn't win a GS til 84, very much second best to Jimmy in that time period.
Becker is no.2 for 85-89 behind Lendl, ahead of Wilander.
I lost interest in the 90's!!, but Federer is the man since 2000
Click to expand...

I fully agree with that list.But from 1970-73 ( 74 was all Connors), there were many players close for the nº 1 race:
Newcombe,Laver,Rosewall,Ashe,Nasty,Kodes and Stan Smith were all nº 1 or close to that.Okker,Roche,Gimeno,Riessen,Drisdale,Taylor,Lutz,Richey,Gorman,Pilic,Franulovic,Metrevali and many others that I am forgetting ( youngs Connors,Borg,Tanner and more stablished pros like Orantes and Panatta)...the level is just completely amazing.

It was the dawn of the Golden Era and, in terms of shotmaking and diversity, it ranks in my book as one of the ebst, if not the best, slot of time.
 
X

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
kiki said:
I fully agree with that list.But from 1970-73 ( 74 was all Connors), there were many players close for the nº 1 race:
Newcombe,Laver,Rosewall,Ashe,Nasty,Kodes and Stan Smith were all nº 1 or close to that.Okker,Roche,Gimeno,Riessen,Drisdale,Taylor,Lutz,Richey,Gorman,Pilic,Franulovic,Metrevali and many others that I am forgetting ( youngs Connors,Borg,Tanner and more stablished pros like Orantes and Panatta)...the level is just completely amazing.

It was the dawn of the Golden Era and, in terms of shotmaking and diversity, it ranks in my book as one of the ebst, if not the best, slot of time.
Click to expand...

Looking at the names you listed, that era was amazing. I just gave Rosewall the number two position behind Newcombe, but ahead of players like Smith and Nastase. Nasty dominated the Masters in that time period. I didn't give Jimmy no.2 as 74 was just his breakthrough year, though becoming a threat in 73, and Jimmy is my favourite player ever.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Xavier G said:
Looking at the names you listed, that era was amazing. I just gave Rosewall the number two position behind Newcombe, but ahead of players like Smith and Nastase. Nasty dominated the Masters in that time period. I didn't give Jimmy no.2 as 74 was just his breakthrough year, though becoming a threat in 73, and Jimmy is my favourite player ever.
Click to expand...

I agree with your consideration of Newcombe and Rosewall, a bit above the other 5 contenders (Laver,Ashe,Nastase,Smith and Kodes).Newcombe was the best over that slot and Rosewall the second best.
 
S

SusanDK

Semi-Pro
NadalAgassi said:
Do you mean overall careers.

As for the overall 80s it is clearly Wilander > Becker > Edberg without a doubt.

For the second half of the 80s it is probably the same order, although Wilander and Becker are closer.

For overall careers yeah all 3 are very close.
Click to expand...

This is one of the most hotly debated trios on this forum. :)

I agree that Wilander was the best of the 80's, but I give the nod to Edberg for career by a slight margin. Although arguments for each of the three for their careers are easily justified.
 
S

SusanDK

Semi-Pro
Mustard said:
I'll do it per year as well:


1983: John McEnroe, Mats Wilander
1984: John McEnroe, Jimmy Connors
1985: Ivan Lendl, John McEnroe
1986: Ivan Lendl, Boris Becker
1987: Ivan Lendl, Stefan Edberg
1988: Mats Wilander, Ivan Lendl
1989: Boris Becker, Ivan Lendl
1990: Stefan Edberg, Andre Agassi
1991: Stefan Edberg, Jim Courier
1992: Jim Courier, Stefan Edberg
1993: Pete Sampras, Jim Courier
1994: Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi
1995: Pete Sampras, Andre Agassi
1996: Pete Sampras, Boris Becker
Click to expand...

See, once again, in the Wilander - Edberg - Becker debate, we have:

Wilander - #1 once, #2 once
Edberg - #1 twice, #2 twice
Becker - #1 once, #2 twice

So it's clear, Edberg is the career winner. :)
 
S

SusanDK

Semi-Pro
kiki said:
1980´s top 25

1/Lendl
2/Mc Enroe
3/Becker
4/Wilander
5/Borg
6/Connors
7/Edberg
8/Cash

9/Kriek
10/Gomez
11/Noah
12/Mecir
13/Jarryd
14/Teacher
15/Curren
16/Leconte

17/Mayotte
18/Arias
19/Gilbert
20/Nystrom
21/Clerc
22/Higueras
23/Pernfors
24/Krickstein
25/Mayer

S&V:Mac,Becker,Edberg,Cash
All round: Connors,Kriek
Baseline:Borg,Lendl,Wilander

a helluva decade,as I said.
Click to expand...

Best . . . decade . . . ever!

And one could add Forget, Svensson, Carlsson, Sanchez, Muster, Teltscher, Gerulaitis, Sundstrom. What amazing depth in a decade that this batch doesn't even make kiki's top 25 list.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
SusanDK said:
Best . . . decade . . . ever!

And one could add Forget, Svensson, Carlsson, Sanchez, Muster, Teltscher, Gerulaitis, Sundstrom. What amazing depth in a decade that this batch doesn't even make kiki's top 25 list.
Click to expand...

Geez¡¡ Vitas, I left him out, but had 3 great years (80-82)...I´ll take out Higueras or Krickstein and put him in.He is like Borg or Connors, a guy maybe more of the 70´s but if I included Bjorn and Jimbo, Vitas comes third.Vilas and Tanner weren´t that good in the 80´s, even if Vilas won Rome and reached a final at Paris.They are in the top 15 of the 70´s, though.

I don´t know it was the best decade although it is the decade tennis peaked after a big upheaval from late 50´s to late 70´s.I just know I had a helluva time and the charachters were terrific.70´s were also great, some 90´s too...and I couldn´t reach the 50´s which may be the most amazing era.
 
1

1970CRBase

Guest
whether going by half decade or 1 year, the result is we still total up who was best over one decade.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
SusanDK said:
See, once again, in the Wilander - Edberg - Becker debate, we have:

Wilander - #1 once, #2 once
Edberg - #1 twice, #2 twice
Becker - #1 once, #2 twice

So it's clear, Edberg is the career winner. :)
Click to expand...

Becker: 6 GS titles, 1 WCT, 3 Masters
Wilander: 7 GS titles, no WCT/Masters
Edberg: 6 GS titles, 1 Masters

Becker wins it ( plus a great H2H against both swedes)
 
X

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
Becker, Wilander and Edberg are all so close, that was a great era. I think of them all as at the same level essentially, but if I had to rank them, I would put Becker, Wilander and then Edberg in that order. Becker seemed more dominant at his best, won most Wimbledon titles, Wilander didn't win either the Masters or WCT title, Becker had the h2h leads and had the better of the Davis Cup meetings too.
 
X

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
Wilander just ahead of Edberg for me. Wilander had the great 88 season in the big 4, Edberg had six years where he picked up a Major, plus the Masters in 89.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
SusanDK said:
Respectfully disagree, and acknowledge it's an oft-debated topic.

For me it's Edberg > Wilander > Becker.

:)
Click to expand...

I know you are keen on sweden tennis.I also liked very much seeing Wilander ( whom I also met personally) and specially Edberg ( one of the best ever S&V´rs and an inmense joy to watch when he was keyed up).But Becker, not only won more majors ( in that time, a WCT/Masters was considered a major) but he also had a great H2H against Mats and Stefen ( including Davis Cup play).That is why I give Boris the edge.He also had the greatest potential of the three.Better at the backcourt than Edberg and better at the net than Wilander.But, again, it is a very very clsoe call.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
I was thinking hoe great after the Borg-Connors-Mac trio we just had soon the Wilander-Becker-Edberg one.With Lendl in the middle, somewhat the link between the early 80´s trio and the late 80´s./ guys of this level and personality in 5-6 years.it was really the greatest era ever.
 
1

1970CRBase

Guest
A triple slam year is maybe ahead of career h2h when arranging descending order of tie break.
 
T

timnz

Legend
Becker > edberg and not sure where wilander fits in

I cannot imagine a case where edberg is greater than becker. Becker dominated the head to head and though they matched total slam titles, becker finished with 5 indoor majors to edbergs 1. (becker had 3 masters cup plus 1 wct finals and 1 grand slam cup and edberg had just the 1 masters cup). Wilander was the best clay playrr of the three but that is about it.
 
N

NadalAgassi

Guest
I would rate Becker over Edberg, but I can definitely see a case for Edberg to be ahead. Edberg has a more balanced record in many ways with multiple wins at 3 different slam venues. He defended his U.S Open title, which Becker won only once. Edberg has an excellent record at the Australian Open and also better overall than Becker with titles in 85 and 87, finals in 90, 92, and 93. He made a French Open final and has won clay tournaments, neither which Becker did, and beat Becker their only meeting there in the semis to do it. Even at Wimbledon where Becker is superior, Edberg leads him 2-1 in finals and overall. Then one big stat Edberg has over Becker is he was twice the year end #1, Becker never managed the year end #1.

Also Becker has 3 WTF to 1 for Edberg, not some artificial 5 indoor majors (in reality there are 0 indoor majors) to 1. LOL at using the freaking Grand Slam Cup as a measure of greatness. What will be next, World Team tennis.


As for Wilander, he has more slam titles than Becker or Edberg, has a 3 slam years which Becker or Edberg never managed, and won slams on all surfaces. He is atleast on par with both of them overall, even if surface by surface he is only better on clay.
Just like if Nadal reaches 16 or more majors he will still probably be only better than Federer on clay, yet many will still consider him the better player.
 
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