Andy Murray.....To be or not to be?

M

miyagi

Professional
OK I know this MUST have been done before BUT the more we see a player the more we get to know them right?

So I'm interested in the opinions of everyone on whether they think Andy Murray will win a slam at this point in his career......I was impressed with how he played in Australia even though he lost.

Against Ferrer I expected him to pull through at the end of the day the way I looked at it was he lost 3 times against him on clay and now was the time to change that trend.

I heard the commentators making excuses for him to the effect of well clay is his least favourite surface so it wasn't so bad......then I remembered Federer has a slam at F.O, Nadal has slams at A.O & U.S.O neither of which are their favourite surfaces :confused:

I don't want to bash him, I'm just confused as to why he cannot seem to get over the hump he clearly has the game and appears to have the mental fortitude but perhaps he doesn't have the mental strength I thought he did...

Djokovic in contrast is looking like he could get him name in the GOAT debate especially if he wins RG and played brilliant clutch tennis against Tsonga and seemed never to waiver.

What do you think?
 
B

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
Why did he keep trying to be aggressive with the forehand after 3 hours of missing them? The backhand is his weapon. Same as the Wimbledon semi with Nadal.

Federer and Sampras aren't aggressive with the backhand when they have bad days with it. Nadal too.
 
R

RedRae7

New User
I think he'll do it, just needs to keep faith in the strategy he utilised against Ferrer and balance it with more slice-based game.

I think he'll flunk Wimbledon, Olympics and US Open, but he'll come good next year.. but only if he remains patient in Lendls advice and remains confident in this aggressive-hitting.

The only way to master aggressive shots is to keep faith and continue to hit, as soon as he gets scared and returns back to safety first, that'll be the sign he's never going to win one.
 
TopFH

TopFH

Hall of Fame
He may win a few if he gets one in this or the next year. I think that if he doesn't win one by 2014, he won't get any.
 
T

timnz

Legend
Time

miyagi said:
OK I know this MUST have been done before BUT the more we see a player the more we get to know them right?

So I'm interested in the opinions of everyone on whether they think Andy Murray will win a slam at this point in his career......I was impressed with how he played in Australia even though he lost.

Against Ferrer I expected him to pull through at the end of the day the way I looked at it was he lost 3 times against him on clay and now was the time to change that trend.

I heard the commentators making excuses for him to the effect of well clay is his least favourite surface so it wasn't so bad......then I remembered Federer has a slam at F.O, Nadal has slams at A.O & U.S.O neither of which are their favourite surfaces :confused:

I don't want to bash him, I'm just confused as to why he cannot seem to get over the hump he clearly has the game and appears to have the mental fortitude but perhaps he doesn't have the mental strength I thought he did...

Djokovic in contrast is looking like he could get him name in the GOAT debate especially if he wins RG and played brilliant clutch tennis against Tsonga and seemed never to waiver.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Give him time. It took nadal 5 years as a top player to win his weakest slam - the us open. Nadal still hasn't won the season end finals which is the most important event on his weakest surface - indoor. (the Australian open is more similar to clay speeds so hardly a weak surface for nadal)
 
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M

miyagi

Professional
timnz said:
Give him time. It took nadal 5 years as a top player to win his weakest slam - the us open. Nadal still hasn't won the season end finals which is the most important event on his weakest surface - indoor. (the Australian open is more similar to clay speeds so hardly a weak surface for nadal)
Click to expand...

:confused: Andy hasn't won ANY slams even on his favourite surface?
 
cluckcluck

cluckcluck

Hall of Fame
It's doubtful that he will, considering how many "injuries" he's had during his career so far.
For him to contend for a major title, he's going to have to come up with some brilliance against the big 3. His first serve percentage needs to go up consistently, he's got a good serve, just needs to make it in more often.
The other is his mental capacity of keeping it together. We have all seen him fly off the handle, be somewhere else, plays the blame game (clothing, wind, shoes, strings, etc.); if he can pull in his emotions and use the frustration to actually hit the ball better during matches, he could have a chance. Until then, I doubt he'll win one.
 
T

timnz

Legend
I was responding to this psragraph

miyagi said:
:confused: Andy hasn't won ANY slams even on his favourite surface?
Click to expand...

You said "I heard the commentators making excuses for him to the effect of well clay is his least favourite surface so it wasn't so bad......then I remembered Federer has a slam at F.O, Nadal has slams at A.O & U.S.O neither of which are their favourite surface"
 
M

miyagi

Professional
timnz said:
You said "I heard the commentators making excuses for him to the effect of well clay is his least favourite surface so it wasn't so bad......then I remembered Federer has a slam at F.O, Nadal has slams at A.O & U.S.O neither of which are their favourite surface"
Click to expand...

Ahh ok so you are saying give him time to win his first slam?
 
M

Magnetite

Professional
He can still do it. He needs to heal himself though first, and quit acting like a baby on court.

It's embarrassing watching him having tantrums all the time. His mother needs to spank him and give him a timeout.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
I believe he'll win a slam or two (either the Australian Open or US Open), grab the #1 ranking for a while and then disappear back into the woodwork.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Not at all sure whether Murray is in the right place (physically or mentally) to win his 1st Slam right now. He had a great start to the year at the AO (winning a title on the way) but it's been a steady decline since then. How much this is due to fitness problems, I'm not sure. He himself said he needs to work to get fitter after his FO loss to Ferrer so it would seem that fitness or lack of it is a factor. But getting back to peak fitness can take a while as we all know.

We'll see how he fares during the upcoming short grass season, especially at Wimbledon. Frankly I've decided not to expect too much because I don't see him ironing out the problems anytime too soon. This may prove to be a transitional year where Murray will constantly struggle to keep up, a bit like Djokovic was in 2010 before he took off the following year. Now not saying that will happen to Murray (although I'd be happy if he had only half the success of Djokovic's 2011 season) but it may be a necessary development phase before he settles into a new, more stable routine. At least that's what I'm hoping for.

In short, I don't see any Slams (or even any Masters) coming his way this year. Next year will decide whether he is ever likely to enter the Slam winners enclosure or not.
 
stringertom

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Magnetite said:
He can still do it. He needs to heal himself though first, and quit acting like a baby on court.

It's embarrassing watching him having tantrums all the time. His mother needs to spank him and give him a timeout.
Click to expand...

Judy is too busy fantasizing about a Deliciano spanking.
 
S

single_handed_champion

Professional
Probably not. Djokovic has become a beast while Murray still clutches his back each time he loses a point. He might never win a Slam while the top 3 are still around.
 
SwankPeRFection

SwankPeRFection

Hall of Fame
He's a pusher. At the end of the day, pushers win against opponents who don't like pushers and make more unforced errors because they go for a lot of their shots instead of waiting to see who makes the first mistake. Because of that, all he'll end up doing is counterpunching with the occasional play. You can't win finals like this.... well, unless you're Nadal. lol
 
M

miyagi

Professional
SwankPeRFection said:
He's a pusher. At the end of the day, pushers win against opponents who don't like pushers and make more unforced errors because they go for a lot of their shots instead of waiting to see who makes the first mistake. Because of that, all he'll end up doing is counterpunching with the occasional play. You can't win finals like this.... well, unless you're Nadal. lol
Click to expand...

OK cool you think that Nadal is a pusher and plays a similar way to Murray?
 
L

laughingbuddha

Rookie
In the open era, Gimeno, Nastase, Panatta, Tanner,Teacher, Gomez, Muster, Korda, Ivanisevic, Johansson, Costa, and Gaudio are the only players in the open era to have won their first slams above the age of 25.
 
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The Bawss

The Bawss

Banned
laughingbuddha said:
In the open era, Nastase, Teacher, Gomez, Muster, Korda, Johansson, Costa, and Gaudio are the only players in the open era to have won their first grand slams above the age of 25.
Click to expand...

Most of those were at RG which is a special slam. Murray's best chances are at SW19 and the USO. It would be interesting to find out (=I can't be bothered to look this up) how many players who won their first slam at Wimbledon or the USO did so after the age of 25.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
miyagi said:
Sorry I asked the wrong question it should have been the statistics for a player over 25 yrs old winning their first slam
Click to expand...

Players in the open era who won their first major at the age of 25 or over, are:

Arthur Ashe
Roscoe Tanner
Gaston Gaudio
Adriano Panatta
Brian Teacher
John Newcombe (first open era major at age 26)
Ilie Nastase
Manuel Orantes
Thomas Johansson
Albert Costa
Thomas Muster
Goran Ivanisevic
Rod Laver (first open era major at age 29)
Petr Korda
Andres Gomez
Ken Rosewall (first open era major at age 33)
Andres Gimeno

Not counting Newcombe, Laver and Rosewall (who had all won majors in the pre-open days), the only players on that list who won more than 1 major are Ashe and Nastase.
 
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SwankPeRFection

SwankPeRFection

Hall of Fame
miyagi said:
OK cool you think that Nadal is a pusher and plays a similar way to Murray?
Click to expand...

I was poking fun at Rafa's way of play, but I guess you had an unforced error in picking up on that. lol :rolleyes:

And for the record, Rafa is a Grinder/Pusher, Murry is a Pusher/Counterpuncher, Ferrer looks like a Counterpuncher/Grinder, Federer is a Shotmaker/Defender, Novak is a Defender/Attacker. Anything else you want to know? ;)
 
L

Loose Cannon

Rookie
He will win one...I say an Aussie.....for One of the Top 3 is out w/injury, and perhaps another gets upset early.....leaving him 1 huge obstacle to over come
 
1

15_ounce

Guest
How to win a Grand Slam for Andy Murray:

1. Empty the player's box in all of his matches.

2. Get rid of all the coaches.
 
D

decades

Guest
timnz said:
Give him time. It took nadal 5 years as a top player to win his weakest slam - the us open. Nadal still hasn't won the season end finals which is the most important event on his weakest surface - indoor. (the Australian open is more similar to clay speeds so hardly a weak surface for nadal)
Click to expand...

10-0. it it was a fight it would be stopped.
 
M

miyagi

Professional
Mustard said:
Players in the open era who won their first major at the age of 25 or over, are:

Arthur Ashe
Roscoe Tanner
Gaston Gaudio
Adriano Panatta
Brian Teacher
John Newcombe (first open era major at age 26)
Ilie Nastase
Manuel Orantes
Thomas Johansson
Albert Costa
Thomas Muster
Goran Ivanisevic
Rod Laver (first open era major at age 29)
Petr Korda
Andres Gomez
Ken Rosewall (first open era major at age 33)
Andres Gimeno

Not counting Newcombe, Laver and Rosewall (who had all won majors in the pre-open days), the only players on that list who won more than 1 major are Ashe and Nastase.
Click to expand...

Damn so Murray could do it then....even history is with him.
 
M

miyagi

Professional
SwankPeRFection said:
I was poking fun at Rafa's way of play, but I guess you had an unforced error in picking up on that. lol :rolleyes:

And for the record, Rafa is a Grinder/Pusher, Murry is a Pusher/Counterpuncher, Ferrer looks like a Counterpuncher/Grinder, Federer is a Shotmaker/Defender, Novak is a Defender/Attacker. Anything else you want to know? ;)
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by "unforced error in picking up on that?"

I'm just interested in your opinion, I personally don't consider Rafa a pusher but I'm even more surprised to see you have Federer & Djokovic as defenders when I think Nadal is THE best defender in the game.

p.s I don't take exception to anyone who doesn't like Rafa's style of play if that's what you are implying.....
 
Feña14

Feña14

G.O.A.T.
I never expected him to beat Ferrer on clay. He's a very talented player, who happens to be even better on the dirt. I think we have the 4 best clay court players in the semi finals, so it's a fair result I think.

I'm not sure if he will win one. Chances are he has to beat 2 of Djokovic, Nadal and Federer back-to-back to do it. I can't really see that. There's no shame in losing to 3 players who will probably go down as some the greatest players to play the game.

You can never say never though. As a Chelsea fan, I know better than most how sport can surprise you and reward you with the title you've been chasing for so long, after time has seemingly ran out. Fingers crossed he can do something similar.
 
B

Bjorn99

Hall of Fame
No way in hell does Andy Murray ever win anything of note. He has absolutely no forehand. YET, he is being coached by a guy who had the biggest forehand of all time. Its a bad mix. And it will contribute to Andy's demise sooner than otherwise and thank god.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Bjorn99 said:
No way in hell does Andy Murray ever win anything of note. He has absolutely no forehand.
Click to expand...

What's of 'note'? I assume you mean Slams? But he's managed to win 22 titles including 8 Masters 1000s with 'absolutely no forehand'. That's a whole lot better than the vast majority of players below the top 3 have ever managed.
 
rk_sports

rk_sports

Hall of Fame
Murray is in transition... going from a defensive/counterpunching player to an offensive minded player..
So, the question remains as to when that really 'clicks' in Murray's head... to settle into a style.

How many have done this transition successfully? .. only 1 comes to my mind.. Nadal ... but we can all agree he is different.. his spin, lefty, etc.
 
Clarky21

Clarky21

Banned
rk_sports said:
Murray is in transition... going from a defensive/counterpunching player to an offensive minded player..
So, the question remains as to when that really 'clicks' in Murray's head... to settle into a style.

How many have done this transition successfully? .. only 1 comes to my mind.. Nadal ... but we can all agree he is different.. his spin, lefty, etc.
Click to expand...


Nadal used to be way more offensive minded prior to 2005. He has regressed from that,and has gone all push and defend for your life since then. He used to hit flatter,and go for more winners. He doesn't play that way anymore at all.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Does Murray hit a running forehand down the line very much? He always seems to hit a forehand cross-court under pressure. It seems a clear weakness.

Jim Courier was saying something about this.
 
SwankPeRFection

SwankPeRFection

Hall of Fame
miyagi said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "unforced error in picking up on that?"

I'm just interested in your opinion, I personally don't consider Rafa a pusher but I'm even more surprised to see you have Federer & Djokovic as defenders when I think Nadal is THE best defender in the game.

p.s I don't take exception to anyone who doesn't like Rafa's style of play if that's what you are implying.....
Click to expand...

I guess you're not good at picking up on sarcasm.


Anyway, yes, both Fed and Novak are good defenders. I think Novak is better because he seems to get to everything. Novak puts wide serves into play, he gets wide shots back into play all the time, etc. Fed is more of a defender when he can turn it into offense. I don't consider Nadal a defender because "pushing/grinding" a point out is NOT defending. All he does is hit deep and hit with lots of loop and spin. While he can defend well sometimes, the focus of his game is as I described. What I labled each of these players is how I see their primary game aspects as I've seen them. It doesn't mean they can't do other things, it just means that the traits listed are the big percentage skills/traits their game shows.
 
SwankPeRFection

SwankPeRFection

Hall of Fame
Mustard said:
Does Murray hit a running forehand down the line very much? He always seems to hit a forehand cross-court under pressure. It seems a clear weakness.

Jim Courier was saying something about this.
Click to expand...

If you're running to get a ball wide, you don't go DTL unless it's wide open. If you go DTL and the guy is there to cut it off with a volley, you're screwed because he'll go extreme angle or drop volley to the other side of the court and you have too much court to cover to get it back. Also, cross court shots coming to you that you're trying to put DTL takes a lot more effort and timing to make it happen because you have to change the angle of the ball while also redirecting some of that power too. Do it just a tad late and it's going wide if you're flattening it out. If you do more of a buggy whip shot, then you increase that %, but it's still much easier to return it cross court and if you can catch it early, you can put a tigher angle on it to drop it back over inside the service box and wide and if you can recover, you now have a good footing to put away the weak return the other person is probably throwing back at you. It's like this because when someone hits a strong crosscourt winner to pull you wide, they sometimes come into net to follow it in and toward the side of the court they hit to. If you can catch that strong tight angle back at them, you'll pass them with the extreme crosscourt shot, but it's got to be good.
 
Evan77

Evan77

Banned
Murray's FH is looking much better this year then before, not sure what Ivan did with him but it seems to me that they are working things out ....

now, the whole slam story ... it's not that easy ... you win few matches and then you bump into Federer, Nadal or Djokovic and you are toasted ... because those 3 are mental giants ... I'm not saying that Murray is mentally weak, he is #4 in the world, but again he has to deal with these 3 guys who just don't know how to lose (well most of the time, talking about slams)....

OK, someone tell me, too lazy here, how many times did we have Djoko, Rafa and Roger is semis in last 100 years, it's just getting silly
 
norbac

norbac

Legend
He seemed a bit more aggressive in his AO semi against Djoker. Not that he was hitting the ball that much harder, but he was stepping in closer to the baseline and was putting away the short FH as well as I've ever seen him do it. Can't say I've seen much of those improvements throughout the season.
 
Evan77

Evan77

Banned
norbac said:
He seemed a bit more aggressive in his AO semi against Djoker. Not that he was hitting the ball that much harder, but he was stepping in closer to the baseline and was putting away the short FH as well as I've ever seen him do it. Can't say I've seen much of those improvements throughout the season.
Click to expand...
he tried very hard, but Djoko is playing this offensive/defensive **** (not even sure what to call it) that nobody can figure out. yeah, Murray was hitting the ball harder, yeah Nadal tried so hard too, yet they both failed ... the Serbian monster is a monster ... like it or not
 
Bertie B

Bertie B

Hall of Fame
I don't want to bash him, I'm just confused as to why he cannot seem to get over the hump he clearly has the game and appears to have the mental fortitude but perhaps he doesn't have the mental strength I thought he did...
Click to expand...

Timing is everything!!

Andy Murray's TIME is just around the corner. Oddly, it's linked to Novak's demise. Much the same way Novak 2.0 coincided with Rafa's horrible 2011, same will be true for Murray vis-a-vis Djokovic.

ETA: To be!!
 
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Clarky21

Clarky21

Banned
Bertie B said:
Timing is everything!!

Andy Murray's TIME is just around the corner. Oddly, it's linked to Novak's demise. Much the same way Novak 2.0 coincided with Rafa's horrible 2011, same will be true for Murray vis-a-vis Djokovic.
Click to expand...


So you are saying that Muurya is going to win multiple slams this year? Please elaborate. :)
 
norbac

norbac

Legend
Evan77 said:
he tried very hard, but Djoko is playing this offensive/defensive **** (not even sure what to call it) that nobody can figure out. yeah, Murray was hitting the ball harder, yeah Nadal tried so hard too, yet they both failed ... the Serbian monster is a monster ... like it or not
Click to expand...

Oh I like Novak, I'd rather him dominate tennis than Fed or Nadal.
 
bjsnider

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
I think Andy is the most fascinating player on the tour. It's like witnessing a car accident in a race (which I think is probably the only reason to watch a race, as George Carlin said).

I am reminded of the movie Factory Girl, in which Andy Warhol meets Edie Sedgwick:

Sam Green: Is she a star or what?
Andy Warhol: I would sure like to work with her. I've never seen a girl with so many problems.
Click to expand...

Andy is like that. He's his own worst enemy, and all of those other clichés.

On the technical side, I'd like to see him work on a spiffier forehand and second serve, but what else could a player ask for than what Andy brings to every match? Great serve, great return, great movement, great backhand, great fitness. Tremendous variety, great slice, great volley. It's mind-boggling that the guy hasn't been able to topple the big 3.

It's the big 3's ability to elevate their play in a time of crisis that keeps them above Andy, and I don't have the foggiest notion as to why he can't do that too.

The only thing I can come up with is that it's an inferiority complex. In other words, like Djokovic told 60 minutes, "I respected them too much". He needs a little Lendl-esque arrogance.

I think he has more tennis and athletic talent than Andre and I think he should have a chat with him too.
 
Bertie B

Bertie B

Hall of Fame
So you are saying that Muurya is going to win multiple slams this year? Please elaborate.
Click to expand...

Not this year, because the planets are still moving into position. Because of the way their birth dates are separated the peaks & troughs of their careers have this weird see-saw rhythm. So, when Novak goes up, Murray goes down. Once Novak goes down (starting around USO time), Murray will be ascendant.

If Andy Murray gets lazy, complacent, and tries to coast he will be a one slam wonder. If he works for it, the sky's the limit.
 
Bertie B

Bertie B

Hall of Fame
Okay, Okay, Okay...

Don't hold me to this because I've not done any research, yet, just wanted to share an interesting pattern I've noticed.

Roger Federer was born on the 8th day of the month. 2006 when added and reduced to a single digit produces an 8. As the record shows, 2006 was Federer's best year ever, number wise.

Rafael Nadal was born on the 3rd day of the month. 2010 when added and reduced to a single digit produces a 3. 2010, to date, has been Rafa best year ever.

Novak Djokovic was born on the 22nd day of the month, when added and reduced to a single digit gives a 4. 2011, it's now appearing will mark his peak year. 2011, when added and reduced also produces a 4.

Andy Murray was born on the 15th day of the month. 15 when added and reduced to a single digit produces a 6. 2013...I haven't done any research here so don't get your hopes up. What I know is, if Andy Murray takes his eye off the prize, and loses focus he may luck his way to a slam. OTOH, if he believes in himself, works hard, & plays to win, something magical is in store.
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
The problem with Murray is that his time is always "just around the corner".

It's like when you're walking down a street you only vaguely know, looking for a specific store, you keep thinking it's around the next corner, only to realise it's not.

Bertie B said:
Okay, Okay, Okay...

Don't hold me to this because I've not done any research, yet, just wanted to share an interesting pattern I've noticed.

Roger Federer was born on the 8th day of the month. 2006 when added and reduced to a single digit produces an 8. As the record shows, 2006 was Federer's best year ever, number wise.

Rafael Nadal was born on the 3rd day of the month. 2010 when added and reduced to a single digit produces a 3. 2010, to date, has been Rafa best year ever.

Novak Djokovic was born on the 22nd day of the month, when added and reduced to a single digit gives a 4. 2011, it's now appearing will mark his peak year. 2011, when added and reduced also produces a 4.

Andy Murray was born on the 15th day of the month. 15 when added and reduced to a single digit produces a 6. 2013...I haven't done any research here so don't get your hopes up. What I know is, if Andy Murray takes his eye off the prize, and loses focus he may luck his way to a slam. OTOH, if he believes in himself, works hard, & plays to win, something magical is in store.
Click to expand...
Okay, that's fascinating, even I'm not one to believe in this sort of thing.
 
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