5.0=Former Wimby Doubles Champion?

michael_1265

michael_1265

Professional
I was just poking around in Tennislink, and I noticed that one of our local women's teams had made it to the 5.0 nationals in 2010. One of the players, the wife of our club pro, played in the doubles final, where she got beaten by a pairing that included JoAnne Russell, 1977 Wimbledon doubles champion. Granted, Joanne was 56 at the time of this match, but plenty of club players still have game in their 50s. For those of you who play at this level, would you be shocked to be facing a 5.0 player who had a major?
 
spiderman123

spiderman123

Professional
michael_1265 said:
I was just poking around in Tennislink, and I noticed that one of our local women's teams had made it to the 5.0 nationals in 2010. One of the players, the wife of our club pro, played in the doubles final, where she got beaten by a pairing that included JoAnne Russell, 1977 Wimbledon doubles champion. Granted, Joanne was 56 at the time of this match, but plenty of club players still have game in their 50s. For those of you who play at this level, would you be shocked to be facing a 5.0 player who had a major?
Click to expand...

I would be honored and would cherish the experience.


BTW, didn't Martina win US Open Mixed at 50? Pros most certainly have a great game in 50s if they have been playing even a little.
 
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SwankPeRFection

SwankPeRFection

Hall of Fame
I don't see anything wrong with it and I would be happy if I could take some points/games off of them. In a way, it would give you a good idea of how good you'd have to be to beat them badly each and every time. Something like this tends to put your game into perspective in terms of your mental ability to play well if your skills are good. It's not unheard of to have average Joes make it deep into tournaments, especially doubles where a ton of club pros and players have chances of being successful if they're really good.
 
J

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Glenn Michibata plays around here occassionally in open tournies. He's still real good, but not too far ahead of the top guys in 5.0. Once I saw him lose to Max Tikhomorov, who was the #1 ranked junior in Middle States before Bjorn Fratangelo came around and who was playing futures qualies at the time, and one time I saw him lose to Justin O'Neal, who played at Florida and then tried pros for a little bit. Those guys were probably closer to a high 5.5 level.

BTW, JoAnne Russell lost a match at nationals that year 6-0 6-1, so it's not like she was invincible.
 
2

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
I think it's kind of cool but is it right for the other team? They work hard to get to the 5.0 nationals and across the net is a former wimbledon doubles champion playing in a 5.0 league. It's my understanding that a former grand slam has to be something like a 7.0 player. I'd think that'd be a DQ.

Heck if I faced Johnny Mac or Jimmy Conners it'd be an honor but if you work hard and face those guys in a 5.0 league I'd think something isn't right.
 
D

decades

Guest
2ndServe said:
I think it's kind of cool but is it right for the other team? They work hard to get to the 5.0 nationals and across the net is a former wimbledon doubles champion playing in a 5.0 league. It's my understanding that a former grand slam has to be something like a 7.0 player. I'd think that'd be a DQ.

Heck if I faced Johnny Mac or Jimmy Conners it'd be an honor but if you work hard and face those guys in a 5.0 league I'd think something isn't right.
Click to expand...

no. you're forgetting that she is 56. a 56 year old player is never going to be a 7.0. there is also a distinction between a doubles grand slam and singles. this 56 year old might be matching up against 20-25 year olds. how is that fair?
 
wings56

wings56

Hall of Fame
i guess thats good to hear she can play at the 5.0 level. maybe once i get to 40 i can finally appeal down to 5.0...
 
Angle Queen

Angle Queen

Professional
michael_1265 said:
I was just poking around in Tennislink, and I noticed that one of our local women's teams had made it to the 5.0 nationals in 2010. One of the players, the wife of our club pro, played in the doubles final, where she got beaten by a pairing that included JoAnne Russell, 1977 Wimbledon doubles champion. Granted, Joanne was 56 at the time of this match, but plenty of club players still have game in their 50s. For those of you who play at this level, would you be shocked to be facing a 5.0 player who had a major?
Click to expand...
What's scary about that whole scenario, Michael, is what is in bold. It'd be one thing if it'd been our club pro making Nationals...but no, this really cool story is about his wife. Granted, they are both former Div-I players but how cool is that...that you make a living at a game...but your wife is even better. :) Nice, too, that she took the former champion to a third set TB.

She and her hubs still have some serious game even at their age (which, ahem, I think is our age too!).

That's part of what I really love about this game. That you can play it, essentially, for your entire life. And that people who have made it their profession, still play it for fun.
 
G

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
2ndServe said:
I think it's kind of cool but is it right for the other team? They work hard to get to the 5.0 nationals and across the net is a former wimbledon doubles champion playing in a 5.0 league. It's my understanding that a former grand slam has to be something like a 7.0 player. I'd think that'd be a DQ.

Heck if I faced Johnny Mac or Jimmy Conners it'd be an honor but if you work hard and face those guys in a 5.0 league I'd think something isn't right.
Click to expand...

http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/ExperiencedGuidelines_02142011_V2pdf.pdf

World class player, age 56-65 on the chart is listed at 5.0 so I doubt you can get her DQ'd or have a grievance upheld etc...
 
michael_1265

michael_1265

Professional
Angle Queen said:
What's scary about that whole scenario, Michael, is what is in bold. It'd be one thing if it'd been our club pro making Nationals...but no, this really cool story is about his wife. Granted, they are both former Div-I players but how cool is that...that you make a living at a game...but your wife is even better. :) Nice, too, that she took the former champion to a third set TB.

She and her hubs still have some serious game even at their age (which, ahem, I think is our age too!).

That's part of what I really love about this game. That you can play it, essentially, for your entire life. And that people who have made it their profession, still play it for fun.
Click to expand...

I bet Russell is a beast at the net. Back in those days, with all of the bad bounces, net play was the only way to win.

Tennis is one of the most democratic sports, for sure.
 
michael_1265

michael_1265

Professional
decades said:
no. you're forgetting that she is 56. a 56 year old player is never going to be a 7.0. there is also a distinction between a doubles grand slam and singles. this 56 year old might be matching up against 20-25 year olds. how is that fair?
Click to expand...

In singles, not fair. In doubles, I'm guessing that the 25 year old is toast.
 
goober

goober

Legend
2ndServe said:
I think it's kind of cool but is it right for the other team? They work hard to get to the 5.0 nationals and across the net is a former wimbledon doubles champion playing in a 5.0 league. It's my understanding that a former grand slam has to be something like a 7.0 player. I'd think that'd be a DQ.

Heck if I faced Johnny Mac or Jimmy Conners it'd be an honor but if you work hard and face those guys in a 5.0 league I'd think something isn't right.
Click to expand...

7.0 in their 20s not at age 56. Everybody has sandbaggers at nationals. There was a woman who ranked as high as 130 WTA playing 5.0 nationals several years ago and she was still in her early 30s. Not surprisingly she didn't drop a set. I think this 56 year old is far more legit than this other woman.
 
michael_1265

michael_1265

Professional
goober said:
7.0 in their 20s not at age 56. Everybody has sandbaggers at nationals. There was a woman who ranked as high as 130 WTA playing 5.0 nationals several years ago and she was still in her early 30s. Not surprisingly she didn't drop a set. I think this 56 year old is far more legit than this other woman.
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I suspect 5.0 has a huge ability range. It seems to be the top rating in which you have a decent chance of finding a team in a metro area. I wonder if competition would be better served by merging all 5.0 and above into an "open" rating????
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Well, since here on TW there is plenty of threads of "5.0 vs McEnroe", you gotta expect to face a decent player in 5.0 Nationals.
Consider.... most 56 year old former 7.0's cannot hang with the modern Div1 women. Since Div1 is 5.5, where should someone who would lose to Div1 be rated? 5.0 is appropriate.
 
beernutz

beernutz

Hall of Fame
LeeD said:
Well, since here on TW there is plenty of threads of "5.0 vs McEnroe", you gotta expect to face a decent player in 5.0 Nationals.
Consider.... most 56 year old former 7.0's cannot hang with the modern Div1 women. Since Div1 is 5.5, where should someone who would lose to Div1 be rated? 5.0 is appropriate.
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Do these pronouncements hurt when they come out of your ***?
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Doesn't hurt at all.
JoanneRussell was not ChrisEvert, or SteffiGraf, who would be cherrypicking at 5.0 Nats. While Russell was a true top 30, she was mostly considered a doubles specialist, who could play some singles.
Now if Sabatini played 5.0 doubles, that would be cherrypicking.
Muster, at 5.0 is cherry picking. He still plays competitively and practices seriously.
But say, BettinaBunge, who quit tennis before the turn of the century, she can play 5.0 Nats, and was once a top 20 player.
Do you like the smell of my butt?
 
T

tennis_ocd

Hall of Fame
LeeD said:
JoanneRussell was not ChrisEvert, or SteffiGraf, who would be cherrypicking at 5.0 Nats.
Click to expand...
5.0 Nats?! Got to see Evert hit a several months ago at some event; still had a wonderful volley but I couldn't imagine her hanging with some 25 yo ex big D1 player... and that's what she'd be facing in a stacked 5.0 national team.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
So you AGREE JoAnneRussell belongs in 5.0 Nats, and won't win it.
Problem with a 50 year old Chrissie playing a 5.5 Div 1 is shell shock. Not Chrissie, believe me.
Kinda like Isner playing with McEnroe his first time. We knew Isner could straight set Mc, but the first couple times playing together, Isner looked lost and shell shocked. After a couple of times playing, I'm sure Isner went back to his regular game and dropped Mc like a rock.
Chrissie has seen and played with all the topspin of any of the new kids. She's had years of experience playing world's top players, including some of the top 5 men. She would know to concentrate on the first 3 games, then watch any college player just fall apart. Something only experience can give you.
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
I absolutely agree with you on that one.
However, there were some good volleyers, like Navritilova and Goolagong, Bunge and Barker.
In 1977, I played rec doubles with a WINNER of the CanadianOpen and her sister who won it the year after. My partner was a gimpy (from polio as a child, right leg 3" shorter than his left) 3.5. In over 10 sets, they averaged a 6-4 victory, with us winning two tiebreaker sets. We, the guys, had not yet played any tournaments.
Sure, we lost more than we won. But we were C players, or 3.5's.
 
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