kiki
Banned
yepp, and hingis quit just before she got even more drubbing from the queen.
...she was robbed by the umpire and the french crown.Graf´s atittude was poor.
yepp, and hingis quit just before she got even more drubbing from the queen.
...she was robbed by the umpire and the french crown.Graf´s atittude was poor.
I agree. Seles was "power player 1.0", essentially the first player who could hit the ball hard from both sides. And that gave Graf trouble. The sport has evolved to a point where it's almost impossible to achieve success without having solid ground strokes off both sides. So Serena playing like she did at Wimbledon and at the Olympics would just be too much for Graf to handle. And that sliced backhand of hers would be her achilles heel. Not to mention having to deal with Serena's serve and athleticism, which Seles simply did not possess.
Marie Antoinette was never a big Hingis fan.
Serena only leads Hingis 7-6.
Sorry to change the topic a bit, but....
I think the whole "(How many slams would Monica have won/would she be GOAT/would half the world's juniors be hitting 2HFHs) if not for the stabbing?" is played out. But something that does interest me is, how would a peak '91-'93 (or a never stabbed) Monica had handled the big hitters of 1997-present? Because late-career Monica and her suspect movement struggled more than Steffi against them, it would seem. By my calculation, a 5-23 record against Venus/Serena/Davenport. I haven't dug too deep into it, but I know she had a winning record against Capriati. I wonder what the breakdown of W/L are for comeback-Monica vs. comeback-Capriati.
Oh yeah, first meeting was in key biskayne 1998, world no.1 defending champion beat Serena 7/6 in the third, Serena was playing only in her 3rd tournament. Three of the six Hingis wins were before the first slam of Serena, not to mention the fourth win, my God, still remember 2000 Toronto final, Serena lead 6/0, 3/0, before she got injured and withdrawn, still remember Hingis' face embarrassment of holding that cup lol.
Too smart of Hingis to retire knowing she won't get any thing in 2002-2003 except multiplying that number (7 losses) few times
Come-back Monica was never as good as the before Monica. Coma-back Monica had suffered from overweight and had problems in the movement area. Well, that's my opinion anyway. :-|
you mean 1997? No peak or anything, same Martina Hingis of 1998 and 1999 etc. the only difference is there were no Graf, Serena, Henin etc., it was just Martina, just imagine in Wimbledon 97 Kournikova was a semifinalist!!!Serena never played peak Hingis.
That is my point. Her movement issues caused her to struggle against the big hitters of '97-02', compared to Graf, who didn't have as much trouble with them. My question is "How would a fit, decent-moving Monica have fared against Venus/Serena/Davenport?"
you mean 1997? No peak or anything, same Martina Hingis of 1998 and 1999 etc. the only difference is there were no Graf, Serena, Henin etc., it was just Martina, just imagine in Wimbledon 97 Kournikova was a semifinalist!!!
you mean 1997? No peak or anything, same Martina Hingis of 1998 and 1999 etc. the only difference is there were no Graf, Serena, Henin etc., it was just Martina, just imagine in Wimbledon 97 Kournikova was a semifinalist!!!
That is my point. Her movement issues caused her to struggle against the big hitters of '97-02', compared to Graf, who didn't have as much trouble with them. My question is "How would a fit, decent-moving Monica have fared against Venus/Serena/Davenport?"
Well in my opinion Graf had a very very tough time against Seles, with Seles being a pioneer with her hardhitting style. In my opinion however, the modern "girls" move better than Seles did in her prime and hit even harder with more angles. So my point is that if Graf had a very difficult time against Seles , and if you think Serena is better than Seles (which I believe in every aspect of the game), than Graf would not fare so well Against Serena.. :|
They've got different technology, maybe fitness technology etc too now. I think people overrate Serena and she hasn't had as gooder opposition as Graf. Seles was on a high for a bit, like Djoker, but would it have sustained? I don't recall her as having it over Graf totally, wasn't that nearer the end of Graf's reign? I still think Graf had more mind strength, and could basically figure out most opponents after iniital problems more than Serena. I think she is the GWOAT and Serena is not. But it's all opinions...
Good post. Seles was never a force on grass (that's why I consider Graf better, cause she could winon all surfaces), never did she have an overall domination over Graf like some fans would like to make believe. Seles never lead the head to head. Serena vs Monica is superpower against great power, Serena has more power and a great serve. Serena vs Steffi is superpower vs a super athlete, thats slice backhand neutralizes a lot of the power. The reason Monica gave Steffi fits at time was the fact that Monica was lefthanded. Steffi had trouble with all lefthanders (Martina, Schnyder, Seles) for the same reason Roger Federer has trouble with lefthanders (Nadal). Both Federer and Graf like to hit the forehand from their backhandcorners and that's very difficult to do against the lefthander.
As you sais, but it's all opinions..
Kournikova had amazing talent.She wasn´t focused on tennis but she was far more talented than 90% of current players.If she played in today´s era, even with her mind partially out of tennis, she´d have won a few majors.
Kournikova had amazing talent.She wasn´t focused on tennis but she was far more talented than 90% of current players.If she played in today´s era, even with her mind partially out of tennis, she´d have won a few majors.
Good post. Seles was never a force on grass (that's why I consider Graf better, cause she could winon all surfaces), never did she have an overall domination over Graf like some fans would like to make believe. Seles never lead the head to head. Serena vs Monica is superpower against great power, Serena has more power and a great serve. Serena vs Steffi is superpower vs a super athlete, thats slice backhand neutralizes a lot of the power. The reason Monica gave Steffi fits at time was the fact that Monica was lefthanded. Steffi had trouble with all lefthanders (Martina, Schnyder, Seles) for the same reason Roger Federer has trouble with lefthanders (Nadal). Both Federer and Graf like to hit the forehand from their backhandcorners and that's very difficult to do against the lefthander.
As you sais, but it's all opinions..
Graf's slice seems to be mentioned time and again as some sort of advantage, but that slice was rarely--if ever used (during the height of Graf's career) against someone who could take that shot "early" with Serena's kind of explosive response time. Graf's advantages would be the consistent forehand, and skill in keeping the opponent moving for the set up, which would threaten to exaust even one as powerful as peak Serena.
Tactically speaking, both are well matched--they know how to set up opponents for the kill shots, but something would need to give somewhere, and that may come down to one trying too hard to outthink the other (perhaps due to respecting the other's game too much), which leads to one of two self-defeating thoughts: caution (overestimating the opponent) or desperation (trying too hard to finish the opponent off quickly, which can lead to mistakes). Still, Grand Slam year Graf is likely too be too "on" for any caution or need to try too hard influencing her game, so it appears that she would have the edge--if playing with such a legendary form.
Now that's funny.
Talented yes, amazing talent no. Flat groundstrokes/UE prone, mediocre serve, there's a reason she became a much better doubles player than singles player. I doubt she would even make the top 50 today, let alone win slams...
Compared to the Azarenkas,Wozniackis and Stosur, she is jsut 5 or 6 times more talented.
Azarenka would wipe the court with Kournikova...you see how she kills Radwanska, and Kournikova isn't even as good as Radwanska is.
azarenka is a joke.She has never played more than 2 different shots.Man, this is not a slam dunk contest
Azarenka would wipe the court with Kournikova...you see how she kills Radwanska, and Kournikova isn't even as good as Radwanska is.
Azarenka would wipe the court with Kournikova...you see how she kills Radwanska, and Kournikova isn't even as good as Radwanska is.
Hard to tell, the question here is which era - both at their peak but with this era racquets and surfaces or early 90s
The fact is Steffi never played anyone so powerfull and with such serve like peak Serena, but asuming peak Steffi and say she is about the same age like peak Serena and she was developing in this stronger era we can agree that Steffi would be more powerfull hitter too and her game would be different.
I mean this whole different eras comparing must be said that technology, surfaces and everything matters, i mean put peak Serena in 1988 with not such powerfull racquets and different surfaces to current surfaces and Serena could be totally different player with much worse serve and not such powerfull groundstrokes that means soemby like Graf from 88 can move her from left to right like nothing.
So this comparision is impossible to make.
Yes they played each other when one was too old, beyond her peak and other was too young inexperienced far from peak either.
Serena is more powerful but I'd take Steffi any day....best female player in history.
I'd take Serena, she wouldn't have major issues holding serve and would dictate points from the first strike on the returns. However, once Serena fails to end the rallies quickly, Graf gets the upper hand in the rallies, but not much.
Azarenka "killing Radwanska" has less to do with how good she is than you think.
Radwanska is pretty underrated. The reason why Serena lost that second set is not because she "choked".
Serena's power is probably the most overrated in the open era. Is it in because of the bulging muscles?
Mary Pierce..
1. Yes she did. She was too pragmatic in set one and couldn't do jack ****. Set 2 she actually DID something, created awkward shots.
2. You are ****ing delusional. "Pierce not in the same league" :lol:
Pierce completely overpowered Serena in IW 01. Without a doubt the hardest hitter off the ground in history. (except maybe for Venus, but Pierce is a better ballstriker)
People talking about Serena hitting hard is meaningless, she is a better player and naturally caught more attention.
Ivanovic got a racket on it. :lol:
Seriously, Pierce hits harder, get over it.
You imbecile, we were talking about hard hitting, something Pierce did better than anyone in the history of the game. :?
Also, don't even pretend peak Mary Pierce wouldn't crush Serena's ovaries. Did you actually watch tennis before 2008?
Ivanovic got a racket on it. :lol:
Seriously, Pierce hits harder, get over it.
You imbecile, we were talking about hard hitting, something Pierce did better than anyone in the history of the game. :?
Also, don't even pretend peak Mary Pierce wouldn't crush Serena's ovaries. Did you actually watch tennis before 2008?
Flaming does not help whatever point you thought you were making. Pierce never had the training or natural gifts to hit like Serena on the forehand, backhand, overhead, and serve. Even her chip and charge is powerful, while Pierce's was average in the rare times she ever used it. No one is going on and on about how much stronger she was above the rest--but they have said that about Serena.
With Serena it isn't always her power, but how she places her shots. Seriously her placement, especially on topspin shots, is severely underrated. Almost the same as her serve as far as placement and control being more important than speed.
It doesn't matter what people have said. Seriously, when will you realize that just because Serena is the most successful player since Graf, it doesn't mean she is better than everyone at everything. (I know you didn't say it exactly like this, but you might as well have)
Pierce is at worst equal, but inferior?
After being spanked by Pierce at RG 1994, Serena wouldn't be a new experience. It would be a familiar one.