Walking on to court before alloted time.

Drnd · Sep 10, 2012

This has happen twice to us with this same guy. My partner and I are playing a set of tennis. We are about 4.5 to 5.0. We know that the court is reserved for 9'oclock. This guys who is giving lessons to kids at 9 shows up about 10 to 15 early and sends the kids onto the courts while we are playing. The kids are now messing around on the side of the court. This bothers me because, I feel really uncomfortable playing and serving with the kids in possible danger. What should i do with this guy. Talk to him and all he says is "You're not going to hit them." "Mind your own business." He sends the kids in 10 mins early and puts them in possible injury. All he does is say: " I have the courts at 9am for a lesson." And it's ten to nine. Does he think he owns these courts?
Sorry just venting.

West Coast Ace · Sep 10, 2012

I'm with you. You'd think part of teaching would include teaching etiquette - as in not going on court before the hour. I guess not.

Guy where I play screams "great shot Johnny!" Can be heard through the entire complex. Johnny is only about 10-15 ft away. I once mentioned it to the guy; he was indignant. It's the 'me, me, me' times we live in.

beernutz · Sep 10, 2012

Drnd said:
This has happen twice to us with this same guy. My partner and I are playing a set of tennis. We are about 4.5 to 5.0. We know that the court is reserved for 9'oclock. This guys who is giving lessons to kids at 9 shows up about 10 to 15 early and sends the kids onto the courts while we are playing. The kids are now messing around on the side of the court. This bothers me because, I feel really uncomfortable playing and serving with the kids in possible danger. What should i do with this guy. Talk to him and all he says is "You're not going to hit them." "Mind your own business." He sends the kids in 10 mins early and puts them in possible injury. All he does is say: " I have the courts at 9am for a lesson." And it's ten to nine. Does he think he owns these courts?
Sorry just venting.

Is there a tennis facilities director you can speak to about this instructor's behavior? From both a common courtesy and a possible injury standpoint, what he's doing doesn't seem right but I'd bet he'd be the first to start screaming at you if you did hit one of his kids or if you decided to stand on the side of the court while he's giving his lessons--maybe having a loud, distracting conversation. I'd be temped to reserve a court right after him and walk out on it 10 or 15 minutes before the end of his time just to give him a taste of his own medicine.

tennis tom · Sep 10, 2012

The guy is clueless and should NOT be teaching tennis especially to kids, it's non-professionals like him why US tennis is on the wain.

Is this a private or public facility? If it's pubic he must get permission to teach there from a rec dept. In which case, make a complaint to them about his ill behavior and the liability issue of him putting children in harm's way. If it's a private club make a complaint to the club manager.

Spokewench · Sep 10, 2012

Have you just addressed the issue directly and asked him and the kids to please vacate the court until it is their time to play?

Drnd · Sep 10, 2012

Called the city (since it's a public court) to address the problem today. Tried talking to him about the situation, but he won't listen. He responded last time by saying: "You're not going to hit them. I'm been playing for 35 years and I've never seen anyone getting hit standing on the side." He just ignores us. Just a real A**hole.

gameboy · Sep 10, 2012

Drnd said:
This has happen twice to us with this same guy. My partner and I are playing a set of tennis. We are about 4.5 to 5.0. We know that the court is reserved for 9'oclock. This guys who is giving lessons to kids at 9 shows up about 10 to 15 early and sends the kids onto the courts while we are playing. The kids are now messing around on the side of the court. This bothers me because, I feel really uncomfortable playing and serving with the kids in possible danger. What should i do with this guy. Talk to him and all he says is "You're not going to hit them." "Mind your own business." He sends the kids in 10 mins early and puts them in possible injury. All he does is say: " I have the courts at 9am for a lesson." And it's ten to nine. Does he think he owns these courts?
Sorry just venting.

Would this situation be any different if you were 3.0 to 3.5?

AJT · Sep 10, 2012

gameboy said:
Would this situation be any different if you were 3.0 to 3.5?

I'd expect so. While one might expect a 3.0 to 3.5 to be a little less controlled with their serve, possibly increasing the chance of nailing someone on the sidelines, I'd say it's a bigger risk at the 4.5-5.0 level as a few of the 4.5s I've played against are able to hit slices out wide with so much pace and spin that they land in the service court but actually jump outside the dividers before they land the second bounce. And do so at a pretty high speed.

Drnd · Sep 10, 2012

gameboy said:
Would this situation be any different if you were 3.0 to 3.5?

No. it's a danger to the kids regardless of whose playing. They should not be inside the fence unless playing has stopped. However, I noted our rating because we we're hitting with some pace. Even though I've never radar our serves. I think we can hit a 100mph serve consistently and a miss hit return or let cord, etc can be dangerous.

tennis tom · Sep 10, 2012

The issue is also about being courteous to other players and not doing anything to interrupt their concentration. The "coach" may have been playing for 35 years but he doesn't know the game and it's a shame he's allowed to make money off these kids. The 4.5/5.0 players I know, understand the game and I would trust their opinions on what's going on in a situation like this. Write a letter to the muni rec dept. putting them on notice of the liability issue and if you do hit one or someone else does the city has been warned, (although I'm sure you have enough skill to temper and control your shots, but accidents happen). This guy is making money off public tennis courts and should set high standards as a role model.

TimothyO · Sep 10, 2012

Drnd said:
Called the city (since it's a public court) to address the problem today. Tried talking to him about the situation, but he won't listen. He responded last time by saying: "You're not going to hit them. I'm been playing for 35 years and I've never seen anyone getting hit standing on the side." He just ignores us. Just a real A**hole.

Call the guy back, ask for his name, e-mail the city manager/mayor and explain that the court manager may be exposing the city to a lawsuit by allowing kids on the same court with hard/advanced level adult shots. Be sure to copy the pro, city attorney, and maybe a local paper. Politicians hate being held responsible for this sort of thing and the e-mail distribution makes sure he or she knows lots of people know about his decision.

tenniscasey · Sep 10, 2012

Give the kids a note to take home to their parents explaining how the coach is putting them in danger. Or talk to the parents if they're around.

The coach sounds like a complete fraud, by the way. Tennis is largely a game of etiquette; this particular rule is among the basics.

Drnd · Sep 10, 2012

All great ideas. Thanks for the input.

Alchemy-Z · Sep 11, 2012

lol

we had this happen yesterday...with a twist

The kids had new puppies and they were playing with them while the mom talked to the tennis pro before their lesson.

so we have 2 kids running around and 4 puppies on the court next to us...

you know what dog like chasing?

right

Tennis balls...

after about the 2nd slobber covered ball I got back we talked to the parent/pro

spot · Sep 11, 2012

Tell the kids to get off of the court. They will follow the rules even if the coach is a D-bag. If he persists start cursing at him. If there are any parents around that should solve it.

floridatennisdude · Sep 11, 2012

spot said:
Tell the kids to get off of the court. They will follow the rules even if the coach is a D-bag. If he persists start cursing at him. If there are any parents around that should solve it.

I don't agree with cursing in front of kids, but I would address them directly next time. Unless they are the children of Ricky Bobby, they'll pay attention and cooperate.

"hey kids, we're still playing for another 10 minutes. Please stay clear of the court we are on, please" would be a fair request. I'd be willing to bet that the kids have better attitudes than the pro. Kids need to be taught etiquette and if the instructor isn't willing to instill it in them, I would feel no remorse in doing it myself.

Taxvictim · Sep 11, 2012

Alchemy-Z said:
lol

The kids had new puppies and they were playing with them while the mom talked to the tennis pro before their lesson.

Reminds me of the time Obliviot Mom brought her kids to the public tennis courts. They were wearing roller skates. Big sign says "No Skating On the Courts." Mom sits down with her cellphone and faces away from the court. One kid skates around behind us while we are playing, then steals a ball from another court, waving it around saying, "I got us a ball!" We adults stop the kids from stealing the ball, but the Obliviot keeps talking on her phone, ignoring all the yelling up and down the courts to stop the kids.

Just another reason clay courts are better... no skating!

SwankPeRFection · Sep 11, 2012

The answer is simple. At 4.5-5.0 you should be good enough to "miss hit" a ball and hit him. When he makes a big deal about it, play it off and be like, "I guess you were wrong about that no one gets hit bit."

Sometimes you have to be a dick so that someone else doesn't walk all over you. When people stand on court waiting I intentionally hit serves and shots as wide as possible with pace for winners that get close to them. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I can do it all the time, especially when my regular partner plays the hero protector, but you're going to get a ball sent your way if you're intruding and were rude about complying with my initial nice request to wait your turn outside the fence.

nalvarado · Sep 11, 2012

Peg someone with a ball. Or rip one just close enough for them to realize the danger.

tennis_ocd · Sep 11, 2012

Drnd said:
.... He responded last time by saying: "You're not going to hit them. I'm been playing for 35 years and I've never seen anyone getting hit standing on the side." He just ignores us. Just a real A**hole.

This really isn't the issue; it's simple etiquette. You have the court until 9. I'd be tempted to lightly hit off to the side at 9 for another 10 minutes and tell him not to worry about one of the kids hitting you as it rarely happens.

Cindysphinx · Sep 11, 2012

I'm confused.

You have a court until 9 am. Are you saying that 10 minutes early a bunch of people walk onto your court (like, by the benches) and sit there? If so, this is completely unacceptable.

Or is the issue that there are several courts, and they are hanging out on a neighboring court? If so, I don't understand how you have the right to dictate what happens on a public court you are not using.

What am I missing here?

Cindysphinx · Sep 11, 2012

Oh, I should mention . . . If the kids are on *your* court, you needn't go through the instructor to correct them. You calmly and politely say, "Excuse me, could you please leave so that we can finish?" The kids will flee and never do it again.

Sakkijarvi · Sep 11, 2012

I am with Swank, but prolly ... if you need to vent this, discuss it at a message board then both you and your buddy lack the man skills to deal with a situation like this no brainer you are in the midst of.

You tell the kiddies to scram. You tell the joker to scram. If joker doesn't get the message, you up the, er, tone. Get in his face. Sure, unpleasant. But one ream-out here and there in life usually saves hours/days/months ... a lifetime of having your stomach lining digested by your stomach acids. Yup, this is the world we live in now, nuances, trying to be 'nice' ... waste of time ... at times. Why cast your pearls before swine anyway, didn't someone once say that?

Other option is join a private club or make friends that have tennis courts at their homes. Let's face it, the affluent spend good money to get away from the great unwashed among us ... for reasons just like this.

NLBwell · Sep 11, 2012

Don't do anything dumb to get yourself in trouble. Taking it up with the city, etc. should work.

Taxvictim · Sep 11, 2012

NLBwell said:
Don't do anything dumb to get yourself in trouble. Taking it up with the city, etc. should work.

This.

Or just stay past 9 a.m. When the guy says it's his time to get the court, tell him you're still entitled to ten more uninterrupted minutes, and that won't start until the court is clear.

tenniscasey · Sep 11, 2012

Taxvictim said:
This.

Or just stay past 9 a.m. When the guy says it's his time to get the court, tell him you're still entitled to ten more uninterrupted minutes, and that won't start until the court is clear.

Nah, passive-aggressive doesn't really work with out-and-out idiots like this coach.

I can't imagine this suggestion ending in anything except a shouting match or worse.

jk175d · Sep 11, 2012

Cindysphinx said:
I'm confused.

You have a court until 9 am. Are you saying that 10 minutes early a bunch of people walk onto your court (like, by the benches) and sit there? If so, this is completely unacceptable.

Or is the issue that there are several courts, and they are hanging out on a neighboring court? If so, I don't understand how you have the right to dictate what happens on a public court you are not using.

I was wondering the same thing, one post made it sound like the kids came onto the sides of the court he was using (unacceptable) but the post about the dogs says neighboring courts, in which case they should be allowed to come onto an empty court, what's the fuss? But a dog on the court, slobbering on YOUR tennis balls no less, is way out of line.

Drnd · Sep 11, 2012

Cindysphinx said:
I'm confused.

You have a court until 9 am. Are you saying that 10 minutes early a bunch of people walk onto your court (like, by the benches) and sit there? If so, this is completely unacceptable.

Or is the issue that there are several courts, and they are hanging out on a neighboring court? If so, I don't understand how you have the right to dictate what happens on a public court you are not using.

What am I missing here?

There are two courts. The instructor sends the kids onto our court. They hang over by the bench as he sets his things down (basket of balls, bags, etc.) What bothers me is we are in the middle of a game and it's 10 min to 9am. I approach him to let him know it's not nine and very dangerous to have kids on the court. He just smiles and ignores us like he owns the court. I feel uncomfortable continuing to play with the kids around. I did make a scene, but i don't think this guys gets it.

SwankPeRFection · Sep 11, 2012

Drnd said:
There are two courts. The instructor sends the kids onto our court. They hang over by the bench as he sets his things down (basket of balls, bags, etc.) What bothers me is we are in the middle of a game and it's 10 min to 9am. I approach him to let him know it's not nine and very dangerous to have kids on the court. He just smiles and ignores us like he owns the court. I feel uncomfortable continuing to play with the kids around. I did make a scene, but i don't think this guys gets it.

There you go. He gets it, but he doesn't give a crap because you're being a pu**y about it. Be a dick instead if you have to. Sometimes you just need to get in trouble to show others not to mess with you. You can't be a goody goody all your life and be taken seriously. If you're going to be passive each time, get ready to be walked all over all the time. Then just deal with it and don't ask for suggestions on a forum. We'll all tell you the same thing...

Would love to see this happen when someone foot faults all the time during league play like it's normal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YedqV4Gl_us

Drnd · Sep 11, 2012

SwankPeRFection said:
There you go. He gets it, but he doesn't give a crap because you're being a pu**y about it. Be a dick instead if you have to. Sometimes you just need to get in trouble to show others not to mess with you. You can't be a goody goody all your life and be taken seriously. If you're going to be passive each time, get ready to be walked all over all the time. Then just deal with it and don't ask for suggestions on a forum. We'll all tell you the same thing...

Would love to see this happen when someone foot faults all the time during league play like it's normal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YedqV4Gl_us

I agree and disagree. Ten years ago, I might have gone ballistic on this guy. Now I just find it a waste of my time dealing directly with people like this. What would that have resulted in? Two middle age men fighting each other. As a local practicing doctor, I have more to lose then he does? As a reasonable adult and with kids around, I don't think it would have been the correct approach. I would never scoop down to that level. I have since contacted the city to file a complaint. Turns out he didn't even have the courts reserved.

Setmatch45 · Sep 11, 2012

Is there a gate on the door to enter the court? If so lock it until 9 and you are done than unlock it.

Drnd · Sep 11, 2012

Setmatch45 said:
Is there a gate on the door to enter the court? If so lock it until 9 and you are done than unlock it.

That would work also.

Cindysphinx · Sep 11, 2012

Drnd said:
There are two courts. The instructor sends the kids onto our court. They hang over by the bench as he sets his things down (basket of balls, bags, etc.) What bothers me is we are in the middle of a game and it's 10 min to 9am. I approach him to let him know it's not nine and very dangerous to have kids on the court. He just smiles and ignores us like he owns the court. I feel uncomfortable continuing to play with the kids around. I did make a scene, but i don't think this guys gets it.

Ah, I see. Here is what I would do.

When the kids arrive, I would continue playing my game. If they get hit by a ball, then they get hit by a ball. Then they will know better next time. We're not talking about a hockey puck here. It's a tennis ball. If one of you frames a shot and it hits a kid, so what? That's tennis.

If they do anything inappropriate (come into your field of play, take your balls, too noisy), you politely tell them to stop.

Cindy -- who politely tells other people's kids to cease and desist and has never had a problem

tennis tom · Sep 11, 2012

Drnd said:
...I have since contacted the city to file a complaint. Turns out he didn't even have the courts reserved.

If he's using public courts to make money off of kid's tennis without permission from the rec dept, he's operating illegally. You can't just open a business on public property without being licensed, etc. You said he didn't have the court reserved, but does he have permission from the rec dept to teach on those courts? If he's moonlighting, he probably doesn't have a teaching certificate or insurance. It's difficult to picture the layout of the courts and where the kids are hanging out. Why don't they hang out on the other court where the guy is setting up his clinic; isn't there a bench there the kids could hang out on?

NTRPolice · Sep 11, 2012

Depends on the laws in your area.

Teaching tennis for personal gain is on public facilities is im going to guess is illegal in most parts of the USA, without a proper (posted) permit. If this guy is not operating under any permits to use these facilities he is required to wait just like everyone else.

Here, the wait time is 45 mins, including warmup, excluding rain delays.

Now, if this guy is "legit" and he starts at 9am...

1) If they kids are waiting in a designated area they they're fine. If they want to be there, they can. If they get hit in the eye from an errant backhand thats on them. You really have no business in telling people "where to wait" provided they're in the proper place.

2) If the kids are playing around outside of the designated waiting areas then I would tell them to beat it. If the coach tells the kids otherwise and the kids ignore you... then you've got real problems. Instead of dealing this this kinda guy directly, you'd have to take alternate measures.

Hopefully this guy isnt legit and you can just threaten to blow the whistle on him. Also, if there is a "waiting time limit" I would just extend into his "lesson time" the maximum allowed by park code if he doesnt have a permit. That will **** him off, his customers off, ect.

Dont try that if he has a permit though, you'll just look like a d-bag.

Most of these guys are making loads of money using public parks illegally. Legit teaching pros have to pay huge fees to reserve their courts and programs like USTA lessons are taken care of by the organization.

All of these park pros are making $35-$50 an hour tax free...

Making being a legit teaching pro very hard. I feel bad sometimes.

rkelley · Sep 17, 2012

It's your court until 9. That means the court, the side of the court, the benches next to the court, etc. It's just not cool to send anyone on to the court while your playing.

There is a legitimate safety issue, but beyond that there's just a courtesy issue.

You've tired to be reasonable with the guy. Next time it happens I'd note the time left until 9. Forget the safety issue. Just tell him, politely, that the court is yours until 9 and to have him or his kids on the court while you're playing is a distraction. If he refuses to leave then tell him you will relinquish the court when you have X more minutes of uninterupted play. He can leave his stuff, but both him and his kids need to wait outside the fence.

Then stand your ground right in the middle of the court. Staying there to 9:30 should get the message across.

Your game is ruined, but so is his lesson. When he's ready to be reasonable be ready to reciprocate.

The lock is a good idea too.

I assume that there's no where else to play where you can avoid this brain damage.

Walking on to court before alloted time.

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