This final showed that tennis is badly missing Nadal
- Thread starter Dutch-Guy
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Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Sure Nadal is wanted back, but not because of his tennis. His tennis influence is alive and well, Nadal would be proud of the slugfest his boys put on today. After all, slugfests are a lifestyle for Nadal.
Tennis needs him because he is a popular player who will fill in seats and help TV ratings.
Tennis needs him because he is a popular player who will fill in seats and help TV ratings.
What we need is shotmakers like Tsonga, Janowicz etc to break through. And for that, we need to speed up the courts. Not all, but at least the ones that used to be fast before (Wimbledon/USO etc). That way, all styles of tennis would be encouraged and tennis would become a more exciting sport.
Right now, it is mostly Federer who is shouldering tennis because of his genius, even though slowing down of the courts has negatively impacted him....
Right now, it is mostly Federer who is shouldering tennis because of his genius, even though slowing down of the courts has negatively impacted him....
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Inaccurate. Federer has littered up the stat sheet even worse than Murray and Djokovic in some of those shiate matches with Nadal.
Nadal would have ended a match like this the same way: more unforced errors than winners. Just check out the horrendous stats from the 2012 AO final
President
Legend
Nadal engages in a different and (IMO and that of many others) better kind of slugfest and he is much more charismatic than either Djokovic or Murray.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Nah, Nadal is even worse to watch in these types of matches. He scrambles around even more than Djokovic and hits less winners.
Also, not everyone agrees with your opinion about Nadal's charisma. That is totally subjective. Just because Nadal is a media darling doesn't mean we have to treat him like the messiah. Djokovic is the rising star and he is not inferior to Nadal in anyway from a tennis standpoint. I don't really give a crap if the guy poses in Armani underwear and has 12 million Facebook fans.
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President
Legend
Well that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I greatly prefer Federer and Nadal to Djokovic and Murray, and apparently many others agree with me. Btw not sure how Djokovic is a "rising star", he has been around at the top of the game for 5+ years now..that is longer than Andy Roddick and Lleyton Hewitt were ever at the top.
SempreSami
Hall of Fame
Not quite, but his period of domination feels as long ago as Goats Head Soup.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
By rising star, I meant that he is achieving more and and more greatness every year.. Like Nadal was in 2008/2010
I don't need to pick two players and compare them to two others. Federer has always been my favorite player, but I was never a Nadal fan and there is no reason for me to take his side over Djokovic and Murray. Especially in a case like this, where people are complaining about the low quality final. Lol that is funny. I still remember how low the general opinion about the Djokodal 5 setter was last year despite the charismatic Nadal being a part of it.
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Crisstti
Legend
I missed the match, apparently I set the alarm clock wrong... it seems I didn't miss much.
Isn't it a bit late for Tsonga to "break through"?, how old is he?. Stop blaming the speed of the courts. He hasn't done that well (compared to the standards we're talking about, naturally) even in the fast surfaces.
Serve fests are even more boring than any slugfest anyway.
You're going to use just one match as an example?. Because I don't think Rafa usually has a negative winners/UE ratio.
In the 2012 RG final for that matter, 34 winners, 29 UE.
Isn't it a bit late for Tsonga to "break through"?, how old is he?. Stop blaming the speed of the courts. He hasn't done that well (compared to the standards we're talking about, naturally) even in the fast surfaces.
Serve fests are even more boring than any slugfest anyway.
You're going to use just one match as an example?. Because I don't think Rafa usually has a negative winners/UE ratio.
In the 2012 RG final for that matter, 34 winners, 29 UE.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
He doesn't at all. Normally, Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, and Federer all have more winners than unforced errors. When they have their huge 5 set slugfests amongst themselves, They all end the match with atrocious stats
Cesc Fabregas
Legend
Nadal is my favourite player so I want him back but the slugfests between Nadal/Murray/Djokovic at the Aussie Open is as much to do with the court as the players. Get more variety at the other 3 slams.
President
Legend
I don't think they will have it quite as bad, Rafa has a congenital foot issue that has caused him to wear out his knees quicker than normal. I agree that they won't be able to play this way at 31 though.
Clarky21
Banned
Lance does not get injured so this does not apply to him. He's been grinding it out for 2 solid years now with no injuries. He will pass Nadal in majors, and probably pass Fed as well.
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
what about his shoulder injury the tail end of 2011?? He finished 2011 very poorly compared to how he started.
Also, seems like his back is taking alot of abuse with these long grindfests. Look how his back seemed stiff during the 2010 USO final and the Wawrinka match.
Murray had a knee issue last year. Murray is a big man, running around the court like he is a smaller man. If Murray and Djoker arent retired by the time they are Fed's age Ill be shocked.
Virtuous
Rookie
Even as a someone who can't stand Nadal's tennis (and sometimes Nadal himself), I would agree that he is charismatic. Fans either love him or love to hate him, and both watch his matches, while hoping for different outcomes. I didn't bother watching the final, and felt absolutely nothing when I saw the result and scoreline- no interest in highlights stats etc. Djokovic and Murray are boring together.
Andy is a nice guy, but is generally uninteresting, and doesn't showcase his best tennis playing Djokovic. Novak tries very, very hard to be a personality and, imo he has to because there is nothing inherently magnetic about him. The act works when he has someone to play off of across the net with a contrasting tennis style i.e not Murray.
While I can't say that I miss Nadal, I definitely do miss his competitiveness and genuine hype his presence in the draw brings to a tournament.
Andy is a nice guy, but is generally uninteresting, and doesn't showcase his best tennis playing Djokovic. Novak tries very, very hard to be a personality and, imo he has to because there is nothing inherently magnetic about him. The act works when he has someone to play off of across the net with a contrasting tennis style i.e not Murray.
While I can't say that I miss Nadal, I definitely do miss his competitiveness and genuine hype his presence in the draw brings to a tournament.
N
nikdom
Guest
No. We aren't missing Nadal. If you don't like the players who were in the finals, how is Nadal's game different?
What we're missing is a true aggressive player at the top like Federer....Fed has indeed declined. I was looking to JMDP to step up but this AO was a disappointment for him.
What we're missing is a true aggressive player at the top like Federer....Fed has indeed declined. I was looking to JMDP to step up but this AO was a disappointment for him.
N
nikdom
Guest
Wow, quite a statement coming from you CF!
underground
G.O.A.T.
Yes I agree, we need more variety (ironic lol) instead of 2 pushers of the same mould player against each other.
malbaker86
Hall of Fame
borg number one
Legend
Overall, it's now clear that Djokovic is the best player in the world. He's a big threat on all surfaces and still the best hard court player overall (even fast hard courts, though Murray took the US Open). I do think that Federer is still a considerable threat to Djokovic because I think his game troubles Djokovic considerably, in that he is a more difficult match-up for Novak. Yet, Federer is older now, so his recovery time after matches isn't what it used to be and perhaps he's lost a little zip on the forehand and serve, plus he's a tad slower now in my opinion. He can still produce some great tennis, but it's now tough for him to go all the way through seven matches to win a major. Murray has definitely gotten better over the last year, but he's not quite the threat to Djokovic that Federer is, especially off of hard courts. Who is tougher for Djokovic, it depends on the surface, but I would still give the nod to Federer, especially given his experience and ability outside of a hard court. It's a match up difficulty more than absolute playing level. Now, how about Nadal? That is the big wildcard. I hope Nadal resurfaces in good form, but of course it will take him some time to play himself back to top form. Yet again, do not count that guy out. How many times has he surprised his detractors and done the unexpected? I tend to think he'll do that again and after about a year, if not less, I do think the big rivalry in tennis will be Nadal-Djokovic. For now though, Djokovic is the top player in the world, but he still needs to have better results at the French Open and Wimbledon to really climb the ranks of the all time greats.
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West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Well said.
While Ferrer was a weak #4 seed, Stan more than tested Djokovic. He had a tougher path to the final than Murray; Simon was a laughable R16 match. And Chardy? in a QF?
A lot of great stuff - real tennis, not silly drama from the Bettys tour - in the 2013 AO - should be a great year - Nadal or not.
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namelessone
Legend
Nadal is a lefty grinder who hits massive topspin whereas these guys are carbon copy clones of each other: rightys with very solid backhands who play mostly defensive tennis.
Nadal is also mainly a defender but he can hit crazy passing shots and he usually has a lot more mental stability that someone like Murray who is 1-5 in GS finals and even today, once he failed to break Djokovic in the beginning of the second set, he started to slowly fall apart, whether mentally or physically. Djokovic was pretty awful today in the first 2 sets and yet he won comfortably in the end whereas last year he had to pummel Nadal into the ground to get the victory.
And at least with Nadal Djokovic knows that he can be the agressor and is willing to go for it more(since he can exploit Rafa's BH), with Murray they are so balaced fh to fh and bh to bh that it becomes a game of Pong.
Nadal is needed for the lefty factor and mental strength.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
ROTFLMAO!
Lose to Rosol then take your toys and go home for 7 months = 'mental strength'. In what parallel universe?
Exactmundo! I wonder if his "injury" extends up to and including the French Open, if his apologists will at least entertain the POSSIBILITY of a silent ban?
namelessone
Legend
What he said...
namelessone
Legend
Lost to Djokovic 7 times than beat him in 3 consecutive finals, denying him in his only RG final.
What do you call that?
Anyway, the mental strength bit isn't something that *******s pinned on Nadal, it's something that his adversaries and media credit him with and there probably is some reason for that if you actually think about it...
namelessone
Legend
Wouldn't Natalia be a she?
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Spin it all you want. Djokovic rebounded from those losses and had a solid end of 2012. As I said, Nadal loses 1 match to a journeyman and flees in his private jet. You failed. Let it go.
namelessone
Legend
Actually you fail because you need a reality check if you think a top player willingly takes himself out of the game for seven months, losing lots of financial opportunities in the process, not to mention ranking spots, letting the other guys get in front of him, missing out on potential history making moments, knowing how hard it is to come back even after 2-3 months in the mens game etc.
If you think Nadal put himself through all that because of one bad loss, then I really don't know what to tell you. Oh wait, I forgot, Nadal didn't do that to himself, the silent ban committee did...
Actually you fail because you need a reality check if you think a top player willingly takes himself out of the game for seven months, losing lots of financial opportunities in the process, not to mention ranking spots, letting the other guys get in front of him, missing out on potential history making moments, knowing how hard it is to come back even after 2-3 months in the mens game etc.
If you think Nadal put himself through all that because of one bad loss, then I really don't know what to tell you. Oh wait, I forgot, Nadal didn't do that to himself, the silent ban committee did...
I can tell you a player who did EXACTLY what you described above, another dirt swiller: his name was Borg. The mind numbing discipline needed to excel on that surface doesn't exactly seem to bring about long careers: Kuerten, Borg, and now Butt Picker, whether it be mind burn out, knees, or hips, I'm not seeing too many long careers in the mix, lol...
Btw, crowing about 3 straight wins, on BP's best surface and Nole's worst, while trying to minimize 7 straight losses on ALL surfaces shows just how desperate that you are...
This was a super boring match. These two guys are excellent players, the best two right now. But the match up is horrendous. I wonder how many people are just like me, getting away from tennis and into other sports. It's terrible for the sport when the same guys are playing the finals year after year, but at least there was a great rivalry between Federer and Nadal with their opposing styles and ages. Now looks like we (I mean you since I have zero interest) are going to watch Murray vs. Djokovic for the next year or two. Make no mistake. This is the ATP fault. Balancing the surfaces results in one and only one playing style, which becomes the formula for success. Hats off to Murray and Djokovic because of their current level, but I can see how tennis is going to lose a lot of fans if the surfaces are not distinctive to allow for a few fine specialized players to challenge.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Nadal is missed every day, not just for this final but the good news is that he will be back in a week.
diggler
Hall of Fame
So if Joker flogs Harrison or Ferrer it is a better match because they don't have defensive skills?
RF20Lennon
Legend
Please Fedal save us from this nonsense from the Scottish haggis and the Serbian Ape (coming from a guy who doesnt even like nadal)
Applause, applause. A true champion should be able to change his/her game up to suit different situations. Also, did I accidently log onto RF.com? Apparently you folks hate Novak & Andy M as much as they do. :lol:
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kanamit
Hall of Fame
I highly doubt Murray will ever make a FO final.
GOAT BAAH!!!
Professional
The difference between Nadal and Murray or any of the other guys for that matter is that Rafa would've done everything in his power, even when getting destroyed by Novak, to make him suffer for 6 hours on the court in the hopes of getting the win. Even if it's for naught...the effort is unreal. These other guys seem bemused by high level play
That's why Rafa is important... when outmatched, he's one of the few guys in the game to step up, win or lose. He stood tall years ago when Federer was making a mockery of the rest of the field.
..and recently,when Djokovic systematically dismantled him match by match, Rafa continued to make finals, loss after loss until he eventually made a breakthrough.
None of these guys bring this consistently...
That's why Rafa is important... when outmatched, he's one of the few guys in the game to step up, win or lose. He stood tall years ago when Federer was making a mockery of the rest of the field.
..and recently,when Djokovic systematically dismantled him match by match, Rafa continued to make finals, loss after loss until he eventually made a breakthrough.
None of these guys bring this consistently...
