Lupica picks Nadal as GOAT

Disgruntled Worker

Disgruntled Worker

Professional
I like Mike Lupica. I like Tony Kornheiser. And I like John McEnroe. They each may be trying to elicit a reaction. But they know their stuff. And most importantly, they don't hold back for political correctness. Hell, Kornheiser almost lost his job because he said Hannah Storm looked ****ty wearing a schoolgirl uniform.

On the other hand, I also like guys who are less controversial, more neutral - John Saunders, Michael Wilbon, and Patrick McEnroe come to mind in that regard. As long as they're being honest and demonstrating passion for their craft I listen to them.
 
borg number one

borg number one

Legend
Disgruntled Worker said:
I like Mike Lupica. I like Tony Kornheiser. And I like John McEnroe. They each may be trying to elicit a reaction. But they know their stuff. And most importantly, they don't hold back for political correctness. Hell, Kornheiser almost lost his job because he said Hannah Storm looked ****ty wearing a schoolgirl uniform.

On the other hand, I also like guys who are less controversial, more neutral - John Saunders, Michael Wilbon, and Patrick McEnroe come to mind in that regard. As long as they're being honest and demonstrating passion for their craft I listen to them.
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I think that's a good way to look at it. I listen to all of those guys too. Sometimes, they may look at certain things in sports that you may have not thought about before, especially with all the sports they've watched and covered, including tennis. They routinely speak to the best minds in each sport, and all the top athletes as well. They also have the mike so to speak. One can hear a lot of good advice and many different perspectives, but in the end, it's ultimately up to you.
 
S

ScottleeSV

Hall of Fame
I've never heard of this Lupica?

In fact, I'm more familiar with the respected internet writings of tennis correspondent The Dark Knight from TWF than I am Mike Lupica.
 
Disgruntled Worker

Disgruntled Worker

Professional
borg number one said:
I think that's a good way to look at it. I listen to all of those guys too. Sometimes, they may look at certain things in sports that you may have not thought about before, especially with all the sports they've watched and covered, including tennis. They routinely speak to the best minds in each sport, and all the top athletes as well. They also have the mike so to speak. One can hear a lot of good advice and many different perspectives, but in the end, it's ultimately up to you.
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Two of Kornheiser's worst tennis predictions ever: Sampras would never win another major (he won the 2002 US Open); and that Federer was "finished" (he's since won the 2010 Australian Open as well as the 2012 Wimbledon Championships) I still love the guy for his candor and knowledge. But he draws interest to sports in a different way than, say, Bob Ley.
 
borg number one

borg number one

Legend
Disgruntled Worker said:
Two of Kornheiser's worst tennis predictions ever: Sampras would never win another major (he won the 2002 US Open); and that Federer was "finished" (he's since won the 2010 Australian Open as well as the 2012 Wimbledon Championships) I still love the guy for his candor and knowledge. But he draws interest to sports in a different way than, say, Bob Ley.
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Ha Ha..yeah that's pretty bad Disgruntled Worker. His show with Tony Wilbon has some great debate and they're both funny, especially Tony Kornheiser.
 
jamesblakefan#1

jamesblakefan#1

G.O.A.T.
Disgruntled Worker said:
I like Mike Lupica. I like Tony Kornheiser. And I like John McEnroe. They each may be trying to elicit a reaction. But they know their stuff. And most importantly, they don't hold back for political correctness. Hell, Kornheiser almost lost his job because he said Hannah Storm looked ****ty wearing a schoolgirl uniform.

On the other hand, I also like guys who are less controversial, more neutral - John Saunders, Michael Wilbon, and Patrick McEnroe come to mind in that regard. As long as they're being honest and demonstrating passion for their craft I listen to them.
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Wilbon neutral? He's a shameless nba wh re now that he does the nba coverage for espn and has done his fair share of stuff, namely unleashing a tirade on Facebook towards a fellow reporter like a sixteen yr old girl.
 
Disgruntled Worker

Disgruntled Worker

Professional
jamesblakefan#1 said:
Wilbon neutral? He's a shameless nba wh re now that he does the nba coverage for espn and has done his fair share of stuff, namely unleashing a tirade on Facebook towards a fellow reporter like a sixteen yr old girl.
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No offense, dude. But I enjoy watching Wilbon doing NBA for ESPN more than someone like Bill Simmons. He's a guy I can listen to because he respects the all-time greats (just listen to him any time he speaks with Magic Johnson) and isn't so arrogant that he'll dismiss the up-and-comers (Derrick Rose, Kyrie Irving, etc.) I'm not sure what "tirade" you're referring to. But it doesn't sound like Michael Wilbon to me.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
TMF said:
The invention of CYGS is a must for a goat is dumb and hatred toward Roger..
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The Grand Slam has been recognized for decades--unlike the latter day and false "personal slam" designed to boost the careers of those incapable of winning the GS.

Only those who realize their favorites at their alleged "best" could not win the Grand Slam attempt to disregard it as seen here.
 
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A

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
While Djokovic is an active player who will be here for years, Nadal has no reason to quit soon, and remember, he's not going to go hardline in every major to come. He's smart, and will protect his body like any sensible player. Now, for those who believe majors count is the GOAT standard, then all Nadal needs to do is hang around for a few more years, winning two every year until #18. Then, we will see how the "he's got 17!!!" crowd handles that.
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As a neutral fan of tennis, I'd take number of slams as the primary indicator, now I'm not comparing era's at all so let's not go down that road, but I'd consider Nadal the GOAT if he wins 18 slams. I'm not a Federer or Nadal fan first, I just rate Federer higher due to slams. That's all; I'd have no quarrel if Nadal were to be GOAT, just like I have no quarrel with Federer being the GOAT in my opinion. All I'm saying is that there is a very strong chance Djokovic could lead Federer, Nadal and Murray on h2h as well as winning more majors than anybody - providing he has a couple of sensational seasons ahead of him. Chances are he'll win the US Open, regardless of the past two weeks.




borg number one said:
You have a good point. Mike Lupica is just a guy that plays tennis a lot on his own. He was never an accomplished player, but he has watched and written about tennis for a long time. He tends to be brash and provocative, so he illicits a lot of strong opinions. That's a part of his business. Plus, he knows sports, no doubt about that. He's a smart guy too and has a lot of good insights. I haven't read that whole article, but I've read Lupica for a long time, since the late 1970's. No one can predict how different folks will view this debate about greatest ever over time. It's unpredictable and you'll tend to have different camps in essence. I do agree that you may tend to have differing opinions, depending on whether you ask casual tennis fans that haven't really played much or say die hard tennis observers that play a lot of tennis as well. That's true in most sports. As to head to head, I think it's one thing to consider, but it's certainly not the end all, be all stat. In the end, it all gets presented, discussed, and analyzed. One can just go with one piece of criterion, whether it's # of majors, head to head record, etc. or one can choose to take a more holistic approach and consider a myriad of factors. This whole debate about which player(s) is (are) the greatest ever always aids the marketing of tennis as a sport and the marketing of tennis brands/media.
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(Thanks for the reply Borg, by the way who's your pick for US Open?)




h2h is a factor if everything else has been discussed and analysed; There are clearly bigger factors. Lupica is obviously familiar to slams/WTF/masters etc I have no idea why he doesn't break down those statistics instead of jumping to one 'minor' statistic do determine who the best player in a sport is. He hasn't even talked about the bigger achievements of both parties - he hasn't even talked about mitigating circumstances in the h2h series; surfaces, Federer being old, etc. Maybe Federer lost many matches to Nadal on clay because he was good enough to actually lose to Nadal in the finals to start with (one of many, many points which I can counter-argue).
 
M

myservenow

Semi-Pro
myservenow said:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/o...st-history-respective-sport-article-1.1129218 Just last year, Lupica proclaimed Federer the greatest in the history of tennis. Read it here.

http://deadspin.com/the-four-most-punchable-faces-in-human-history-512584887 Deadspin hates Lupica and rightly so. He is obnoxious and deserves to be one of the four most punchable faces in human history. Read it here.

http://deadspin.com/bored-by-the-grind-it-out-first-half-youre-having-a-be-471017407 Read a tweet about prima donna Mike Lupica being upset with the NCAA tournament over his seating assignment.

http://deadspin.com/5954279/the-bes...undiscovered-american-sportswriter-******-bag Read this one to learn about how despised Lupica is as a sports journalist.
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I meant to add a warning to my initial post that there is a little bit of rough language on the deadspin website for those that don't favor such things. Sorry.
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Russeljones said:
I am not surprised you know so little about Vader's career. Do you know he was on a 20-odd-year winning streak (counting from the time of Luke's birth to his fluke win on slippery surface)?
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Wasn't the H2H between Vader and Luke 1-1 ?

Vader clearly came out on top in their first meeting (The Empire Strikes Back)
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Anaconda said:
All I'm saying is that there is a very strong chance Djokovic could lead Federer, Nadal and Murray on h2h as well as winning more majors than anybody - providing he has a couple of sensational seasons ahead of him. Chances are he'll win the US Open, regardless of the past two weeks.
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There is no way Djoker is going to win more majors than anybody.

Are you aware that he's only one third of the way to breaking Fed's record, at the age of almost 27?
 
Disgruntled Worker

Disgruntled Worker

Professional
jamesblakefan#1 said:
http://deadspin.com/5948950/michael-wilbon-just-cant-decide-how-much-he-hates-dc-sports-fans

That's what I was referring to. And he buries the NFL at every chance while hyping the NBA at every turn. Not neutral at all.
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The bias of this article speaks for itself. Wilbon worked for the Washington Post for 31 years. He's seen every rise and fall of the Wizards, Capitals, and Redskins. Just another example of a a magazine taking a controversial quote out of context to sell their own crappy newsletters. Anyone who knows their stuff when it comes to sports journalism respects Michael Wilbon because he LIVES sports. It's what he went to school for and it's the career path he chose. Bram Weinstein has another 20+ years in the business before people hold him in the same regard as Mr. Wilbon.
 
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Tenez101

Tenez101

Banned
In terms of peak level of play, I still think Roger is the greatest I've ever seen.

In terms of versatility/ability to adapt to different surfaces, opponents, and overcome challenges as well as rack up wins over rivals (even after being utterly dominated, like by Novak in 2011) Nadal is unmatched. In my mind, this is more admirable than simply possessing supreme talent (which of course, Nadal does also). If Nadal reaches 16 slams, I'd probably call him GOAT, and if he surpasses 17, I think there's no question.
 
borg number one

borg number one

Legend
Disgruntled Worker said:
You know what's funny is Hannah Storm looks hotter today than she did in the '90s when she worked for NBC!
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She was great on the Houston Rockets show with Bill Worrell and Calvin Murphy too. She's excellent. I hope she does more tennis.

MZ1042_20090817_TISC_Howard001-1-300x295.jpg
(with Dwight Howard)

241762_display_image.jpg
 
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TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Anaconda said:
The_Truth doesn't play tennis; She admits it herself. Move along!
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What's that got to do with it? I don't act either, but I can be a movie critic. Picking up a racket doesn't make you an expert. It just makes you think you know more than you actually do.

Your opinion is no better than anyone else's and you don't get to set the parameters for who can be a fan of tennis.


You Fed Fans are such a frustrated lot. And please don't say you're not a Fed Fan, there's too many times that you come out against Nadal fans assigning Federer superiority. if you're not a Fed Fan, you should be based on your actions.

You weren't even in the conversation, just meddling and instigating.

As usual.
 
A

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
TheTruth said:
Picking up a racket doesn't make you an expert. It just makes you think you know more than you actually do.
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Disagree on this one. Especially in thread which has 'greatest of all time' in it. Feel free to post useless insults and degrade this thread, it just makes you look silly.


TheTruth said:
Your opinion is no better than anyone else's and you don't get to set the parameters for who can be a fan of tennis.
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At no point, during my posts in this thread, have I actually made such a claim. I've never said 'x' people can't be a fan of tennis, however your comments at times makes me think you aren't even a fan of tennis either. You can read my posts in this debate on the previous page, then go and read yours. Come back and tell me you know better on this topic.




TheTruth said:
You Fed Fans are such a frustrated lot. And please don't say you're not a Fed Fan, there's too many times that you come out against Nadal fans assigning Federer superiority. if you're not a Fed Fan, you should be based on your actions.
Click to expand...



How can I even argue with someone who has the literacy skills of an 8 year old. This paragraph of yours is factually incorrect; I'm not a Federer fan and I have said (on many occasions) Nadal has a chance to become the greatest of all time. I have no problem with Nadal or Federer (as stated). I have an opinion which is Federer is the greatest which is bolstered by my facts which I have already submitted . This, in no way shape or form, indicates that I am a Nadal hater and a Federer worshiper.




You say I come out against Nadal fans. You're telling me Cesc and Veroniquem don't deserve the crap they get? I once read a post from Cesc explaining how JMDP was a total fail of a tennis player (prior to US Open 2009) and his 'digrace, an scandal, a outrage' thread is legendary to the point even Batz, a fair poster unless you harm Murray, is using it.


You might want to be correct when telling me what I am and what I'm not.


TheTruth said:
You weren't even in the conversation, just meddling and instigating.
Click to expand...


Except, these crummy posts are the reason many decent posters rarely post here now. I wanted to step in to stop what was turning out to be a brawl in what was a fairly decent discussion (in terms of GOAT threads). Even TMF has kept fairly quiet.
 
M

Magnus

Legend
Hey Batgirl, we get it, Rafita is better than Fed, always was, always will be. You win. Now, can you stop posting?
 
The Dark Knight

The Dark Knight

Legend
Lupica said:
"How can he be the best player of all time," Lupica asked of Federer, "when he isn't even the best of his time? I mean, can you really call Roger Federer the greatest when there is a guy playing alongside him, during his exact time period, that he can't beat?"
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Good point Lupica!

TW cannot really counter your point .
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Anaconda said:
Disagree on this one. Especially in thread which has 'greatest of all time' in it. Feel free to post useless insults and degrade this thread, it just makes you look silly.





At no point, during my posts in this thread, have I actually made such a claim. I've never said 'x' people can't be a fan of tennis, however your comments at times makes me think you aren't even a fan of tennis either. You can read my posts in this debate on the previous page, then go and read yours. Come back and tell me you know better on this topic.








How can I even argue with someone who has the literacy skills of an 8 year old. This paragraph of yours is factually incorrect; I'm not a Federer fan and I have said (on many occasions) Nadal has a chance to become the greatest of all time. I have no problem with Nadal or Federer (as stated). I have an opinion which is Federer is the greatest which is bolstered by my facts which I have already submitted . This, in no way shape or form, indicates that I am a Nadal hater and a Federer worshiper.




You say I come out against Nadal fans. You're telling me Cesc and Veroniquem don't deserve the crap they get? I once read a post from Cesc explaining how JMDP was a total fail of a tennis player (prior to US Open 2009) and his 'digrace, an scandal, a outrage' thread is legendary to the point even Batz, a fair poster unless you harm Murray, is using it.


You might want to be correct when telling me what I am and what I'm not.





Except, these crummy posts are the reason many decent posters rarely post here now. I wanted to step in to stop what was turning out to be a brawl in what was a fairly decent discussion (in terms of GOAT threads). Even TMF has kept fairly quiet.
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You're not in charge of this forum. If you don't like something a poster says you're allowed to ignore. Otherwise....
 
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TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Anaconda said:
Lol, are you Cesc in disguise?
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No, but I see a lot of people on this forum wishing death to players, accusing them of PED use without evidence and I don't see people like you saying anything to them.

It's a head-scratcher. I haven't insulted anyone. I have differing opinions, but I don't go around disrespecting posters on this board so your post to me was offensive.
 
borg number one

borg number one

Legend
Anaconda said:
(Thanks for the reply Borg, by the way who's your pick for US Open?)




h2h is a factor if everything else has been discussed and analysed; There are clearly bigger factors. Lupica is obviously familiar to slams/WTF/masters etc I have no idea why he doesn't break down those statistics instead of jumping to one 'minor' statistic do determine who the best player in a sport is. He hasn't even talked about the bigger achievements of both parties - he hasn't even talked about mitigating circumstances in the h2h series; surfaces, Federer being old, etc. Maybe Federer lost many matches to Nadal on clay because he was good enough to actually lose to Nadal in the finals to start with (one of many, many points which I can counter-argue).
Click to expand...

I agree. He could have put more context in the article certainly. The thing is, when you really get into comparing everything, the article gets pretty long and there are only so many hours in the day and someone likes him is operating under daily deadlines for articles, etc. For the US Open, as of now, I've got Nadal winning the whole thing, with Djokovic as second favorite. I do think any of the big four could pull it off.
 
borg number one

borg number one

Legend
TheTruth said:
No, but I see a lot of people on this forum wishing death to players, accusing them of PED use without evidence and I don't see people like you saying anything to them.

It's a head-scratcher. I haven't insulted anyone. I have differing opinions, but I don't go around disrespecting posters on this board so your post to me was offensive.
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Posting that way TheTruth, without insulting other posters and players in general, is the best way to go about it in my opinion. It's actually the tougher path to take. Just my two cents.
 
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TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
borg number one said:
Posting that way TheTruth, without insulting other posters and players in general is the best way to go about it in my opinion. It's actually the tougher path to take. Just my two cents.
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Thank you. I do my best not to insult people. Ever. Even on an internet board, whether I disagree with someone or not I have never felt the need to be nasty to other posters and it does require strength.
 
F

Forehand Visionary

Banned
TheTruth said:
Thank you. I do my best not to insult people. Ever. Even on an internet board, whether I disagree with someone or not I have never felt the need to be nasty to other posters and it does require strength.
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Judging by this thread alone it not only requires strength but also stamina. The contention that you must be a practicing member of any sport or craft on order to appreciate it in an intellectual level and be able to critique it is just wrong.
 
A

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
TheTruth said:
Thank you. I do my best not to insult people. Ever. Even on an internet board, whether I disagree with someone or not I have never felt the need to be nasty to other posters and it does require strength.
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I was never nasty to you. If you believe what I was saying was nasty or insulting, then you really need to get out more.
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Anaconda said:
I was never nasty to you. If you believe what I was saying was nasty or insulting, then you really need to get out more.
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Maybe you don't realize how you come off then. Your post was very nasty and unwarranted. I've never said anything to you because I was already aware of your posting style and I'm not a fan of people who speak to others the way that you do. If you can't handle differing opinions on a public internet board, then you're the one who should get out more, mingle, and learn how to talk to people.
 
A

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
TheTruth said:
Maybe you don't realize how you come off then. Your post was very nasty and unwarranted. I've never said anything to you because I was already aware of your posting style and I'm not a fan of people who speak to others the way that you do. If you can't handle differing opinions on a public internet board, then you're the one who should get out more, mingle, and learn how to talk to people.
Click to expand...

'The_Truth doesn't play tennis. She admits it herself. Move along!'



In what way, could you ever say this was nasty? At the worst it's a slight dig, but you really need to understand what nasty is. If you're really offended, I apologize, but I still reserve the right to believe I was stating a fact, not an insult.





Posting style? I speak to people in a friendly manner, except when I come across a 90's clay or a Cesc, then I might get heated. By the way, I never bark insults at anybody; I don't need to.
 
topher

topher

Hall of Fame
Anaconda said:
Posting style? I speak to people in a friendly manner, except when I come across a 90's clay or a Cesc, then I might get heated. By the way, I never bark insults at anybody; I don't need to.
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Anaconda said:
How can I even argue with someone who has the literacy skills of an 8 year old.
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Sure, never an insult from yourself lol. You were being rude, own up to it or ignore him/her. Or lie, I guess :).

And if you want to help clean these threads of pointless troll GOAT debates, don't respond to them. Unless you're part of the problem :shock:.
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Anaconda said:
I was never nasty to you. If you believe what I was saying was nasty or insulting, then you really need to get out more.
Click to expand...


What do you call these? Sweet nothings?

Or did you forget what you wrote?

I should have reported you, because when I looked at your posting history a pattern emerged of you doing this exact same thing to others.

TMF and I disagree on every level regarding tennis, but not once in all of the years that we’ve both been here have we ever insulted each other. It’s called class, whether you agree with a poster or not.
I’m not your punching bag, so I suggest you put me on ignore if you don’t like the way that I post, because I am not putting up with your garbage.

Today, 10:16 AM #129

Anaconda
Hall Of Fame



Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,119
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth
Picking up a racket doesn't make you an expert. It just makes you think you know more than you actually do.

Disagree on this one. Especially in thread which has 'greatest of all time' in it. Feel free to post useless insults and degrade this thread, it just makes you look silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth
Your opinion is no better than anyone else's and you don't get to set the parameters for who can be a fan of tennis.

At no point, during my posts in this thread, have I actually made such a claim. I've never said 'x' people can't be a fan of tennis, however your comments at times makes me think you aren't even a fan of tennis either. You can read my posts in this debate on the previous page, then go and read yours. Come back and tell me you know better on this topic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth
You Fed Fans are such a frustrated lot. And please don't say you're not a Fed Fan, there's too many times that you come out against Nadal fans assigning Federer superiority. if you're not a Fed Fan, you should be based on your actions.


How can I even argue with someone who has the literacy skills of an 8 year old. This paragraph of yours is factually incorrect; I'm not a Federer fan and I have said (on many occasions) Nadal has a chance to become the greatest of all time. I have no problem with Nadal or Federer (as stated). I have an opinion which is Federer is the greatest which is bolstered by my facts which I have already submitted . This, in no way shape or form, indicates that I am a Nadal hater and a Federer worshiper.

You say I come out against Nadal fans. You're telling me Cesc and Veroniquem don't deserve the crap they get? I once read a post from Cesc explaining how JMDP was a total fail of a tennis player (prior to US Open 2009) and his 'digrace, an scandal, a outrage' thread is legendary to the point even Batz, a fair poster unless you harm Murray, is using it.


You might want to be correct when telling me what I am and what I'm not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth
You weren't even in the conversation, just meddling and instigating.

Except, these crummy posts are the reason many decent posters rarely post here now. I wanted to step in to stop what was turning out to be a brawl in what was a fairly decent discussion (in terms of GOAT threads). Even TMF has kept fairly quiet.
__________________
'Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth'.
 
D

Deleted member 21996

Guest
Discussing a sport whhile never having played that said sport... rofl
 
Chico

Chico

Banned
The Dark Knight said:
"How can he be the best player of all time," Lupica asked of Federer, "when he isn't even the best of his time? I mean, can you really call Roger Federer the greatest when there is a guy playing alongside him, during his exact time period, that he can't beat?"
Click to expand...

Lupica knows nothing.
 
Disgruntled Worker

Disgruntled Worker

Professional
Chico said:
Lupica knows nothing.
Click to expand...

Mike Lupica has FORGOTTEN more about tennis than most of us will ever know. The guy covered McEnroe and Borg when they were teenagers. His views may be polarizing. And you may not agree with them. But to dismiss 35+ years of sports journalism experience is pretty silly.
 
F

Forehand Visionary

Banned
Disgruntled Worker said:
Mike Lupica has FORGOTTEN more about tennis than most of us will ever know. The guy covered McEnroe and Borg when they were teenagers. His views may be polarizing. And you may not agree with them. But to dismiss 35+ years of sports journalism experience is pretty silly.
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Absolutely. I'm positive that if he had declared Federer the undisputed GOAT all this people would offer no objection to Lupica's great wisdom.

As for having to be a player in order to understand and be able to analyze tennis, that's just a ridiculous statement. If that were true, only the top players would be qualified to talk about their own matches, and we already know how thrilling are Fed and Nadal post match comentaries. Or imagine somebody like Mike Tyson analyzing classic boxing matches. The horror!
 
Chico

Chico

Banned
Disgruntled Worker said:
Mike Lupica has FORGOTTEN more about tennis than most of us will ever know. The guy covered McEnroe and Borg when they were teenagers. His views may be polarizing. And you may not agree with them. But to dismiss 35+ years of sports journalism experience is pretty silly.
Click to expand...

It looks like he has forgotten way too much.
 
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