Stringing 1 piece vs 2 pieces
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Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
If you're using the same string in the mains and crosses you may be able to tell the difference. Some manufacturers require two piece stringing, but all allow two piece. Although some allow one piece some manufacturers recommend two piece. Many PROS prefer one piece because it is faster. (The faster you string the more money to make.)
If you use hybrid strings it is a mute point.
If you use hybrid strings it is a mute point.
I was speaking to stringing technique/method, yes as in full bed job.
If we're discussing hybriding then I fully missed the boat. (thread title alone says it all)
Coming about!!
M
mul1gan
Guest
1 piece ATW
Hey Irvin,
I have a quick question for you, and I am not sure if I did it properly based on a few videos I have seen on youtube.
I have a head youtek pro which has an 18x20 pattern. Normally I use a 2 piece method but this time decided to try the 1 piece ATW. Since my racket has shared holes and my first cross from the top is shared, I had to tie off on the short side on the 8th main right? Meaning that I could not start my cross at the top on the short side because it would have been in the shared holes.
Did I do that right?
Hey Irvin,
I have a quick question for you, and I am not sure if I did it properly based on a few videos I have seen on youtube.
I have a head youtek pro which has an 18x20 pattern. Normally I use a 2 piece method but this time decided to try the 1 piece ATW. Since my racket has shared holes and my first cross from the top is shared, I had to tie off on the short side on the 8th main right? Meaning that I could not start my cross at the top on the short side because it would have been in the shared holes.
Did I do that right?
Mongolmike
Hall of Fame
If we hybrid strings we aren't allowed to talk about it? Why? :shock:
(just teasing... Merry Christmas... but I'm the bad elf)
Other reasons to string two piece with the same type of string is that some like to vary the string tension between the mains and the crosses.
Also, with 2 pc you have a shorter length of string to drag through the mains which is easier for some to deal with.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
You're confusing me. There are 9 mains on each side and no skipped holes so the 8th main goes from 8H to 8T. So how do you tie the 8th off in the grommet hole it is in? You could skip the 8th main and go to the ninth and run in the top cross with the long side. Then use the long side to come up with the ATW and run in the second cross.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
I going to have to put you on moot. LOL good catch.
If you are going from a main to a cross with the racket surface friction the difference in tension from main to crosses will still be there. I have heard the the USRSA ran some tests for proportional stringing and the tension do not even out.
About the only time when I think there is any advantage to stringing 1 piece is when you have a hole blocked with two strings at the bottom, like the 6.1 90 racket that skips 7&9T and ties off at 6T.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
The phrase "moot point" actually is the antithesis of its general use. The word "moot" means subject to debate or open for discussion, not the opposite.
As to the OP, when stringing a homogeneous string bed, I would rather use a one piece, even if it's an ATW. Can I tell the difference? No, not at all, but a one-piece does allow for more consistent tension and is more aesthetic IMO.
As to the OP, when stringing a homogeneous string bed, I would rather use a one piece, even if it's an ATW. Can I tell the difference? No, not at all, but a one-piece does allow for more consistent tension and is more aesthetic IMO.
optimaltennis
Rookie
1 piece done right has less tie offs thus less potential tension lost.
eelhc
Hall of Fame
On a large 125 18x20 racquet I string a 2 piece job is not possible with a single 40ft package of string on lower tensions as I need 23' to reach the tensioner (with a bridge) and have enough slack to tie off with a good knot. The remaining 17' is not enough for the crosses.
It took some thinking but I've managed to string the the same racquet, string and tension with a single 40ft pack of string.
It took some thinking but I've managed to string the the same racquet, string and tension with a single 40ft pack of string.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
If you can do it one piece with 40' of string you should be able to do it two piece also. Start you mains with 11' 6" short side (half of 23'.) Tie off both outside mains and cut of the long end's tag end so ther is zero wast on the long side. Use a starting knot with a 1" tag end held with a starting clamp (or pliers.) String crosses top to bottom.
Using this method I strung a head OS (110 si) 18x20 with 34' of string. I don't think a 125 si racket would take any more than 6' more string.
EDIT: This video may help you understand what I am saying:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yPuhN9RbAGE
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M
medstud851003
Guest
2 piece > 1 piece IMO
There must be some difference between the two IMO. I do agree with the logic that more knots means more source of "tension loss" / variability, but there must be more factors favoring two piece strings jobs.
I was the relief stringer at a more competitive than usual futures tournament this summer (highest players ranked 97 dubs 210 singles)... probably 80% of the players requested "4 knots" (two piece) over "2 knots" (1 piece).
There must be some difference between the two IMO. I do agree with the logic that more knots means more source of "tension loss" / variability, but there must be more factors favoring two piece strings jobs.
I was the relief stringer at a more competitive than usual futures tournament this summer (highest players ranked 97 dubs 210 singles)... probably 80% of the players requested "4 knots" (two piece) over "2 knots" (1 piece).
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Tim Strawn did an article (Is Two Better Than One) in April 2013 Tennis Industry Mag you may want to check out.
http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/issues/201304/index.html
EDIT: Many tournament stringers are limited as the the pattern they use as it is determined for them but going from one event to another, but they will still have their preference, and they're not all the same. Then again some players want their rackets one way and part of the reason for going to a service like P1.
The pattern you should use for your personal racket should be determined by how the rackets play with each pattern. But before deciding that the rackets should be matched so a favorite racket does not throw off the decision. If you can't tell the difference use the pattern you like stringing best.
http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/issues/201304/index.html
EDIT: Many tournament stringers are limited as the the pattern they use as it is determined for them but going from one event to another, but they will still have their preference, and they're not all the same. Then again some players want their rackets one way and part of the reason for going to a service like P1.
The pattern you should use for your personal racket should be determined by how the rackets play with each pattern. But before deciding that the rackets should be matched so a favorite racket does not throw off the decision. If you can't tell the difference use the pattern you like stringing best.
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Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
To may also want to try coming up with some criteria of what you and others (if you string for others) may look for a newly strug racket, like:
1) How loose are the outside mains
2) How consistent are the dynamic tensions
3) How long does it take for break in or is the racket best just after stringing
4) How long does the playability last
5) Are there any issues with a specific racket with 1 or 2 pieces of string? For instance there are two strings blocking hold 7T on the 6.1 90 frames
Etc...
1) How loose are the outside mains
2) How consistent are the dynamic tensions
3) How long does it take for break in or is the racket best just after stringing
4) How long does the playability last
5) Are there any issues with a specific racket with 1 or 2 pieces of string? For instance there are two strings blocking hold 7T on the 6.1 90 frames
Etc...
Interesting article.
M
mul1gan
Guest
hmm
Still confused, on my racket the 8th main goes from throat to top so the 9th main is going back down. In a 1 piece method, to avoid starting my crosses on the long side from the bottom I need to do the ATW method right?
So on the short side, do I stop on the 8th and tie off on the top grommet or do I do 1 row of crosses from the top, and if so it would have to be starting from the second cross since the first two crosses are shared holes.
Still confused, on my racket the 8th main goes from throat to top so the 9th main is going back down. In a 1 piece method, to avoid starting my crosses on the long side from the bottom I need to do the ATW method right?
So on the short side, do I stop on the 8th and tie off on the top grommet or do I do 1 row of crosses from the top, and if so it would have to be starting from the second cross since the first two crosses are shared holes.
M
mul1gan
Guest
maybe I should take a picture... or maybe I will just use 2 pc and scrape this 1 pc ATW method.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
I would scrap the ATW method. You said in Post #6 you tied off on the short side on the 8th main. I doubt that is true but I took your word for it. That being the case you can tie off the 8th main in 8H because the tie off string would be tying onto itself.
EDIT: BTW which hole at the top is your tie off hole?
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Are you sure? One piece (2knots system ) should take a longer time since the "long side" requires you to pull half mains and full crosses for every grommet.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Am I sure about what? If it is the time required to string the racket that is the general opinion. Many think typing those extra 2 knots requires more time.
Maybe 10 cm / 4 inches.
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drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Is there a difference in racquet performance if stringing the mains and crosses with 1 string? In the past, everytime I had my racquet restrung, the crosses and mains were strung separatey with 2 strings.
1 piece stringing results in better tension maintenance.
redduck996
Rookie
Assuming 8H and 8T means head and throat, my 8th main goes from 8T to 8H and the 9th goes back down towards the throat, which means my crosses would start at the throat on the long side in a 1 piece method.
So if I stop on the 8th main and tied off on either 7H or 6H, would that be ok? Then on the long side I would do a partial box or ATW method so that my crosses can start at the top?
thanks and sorry if I am still not explaining it right.
Muppet
Legend
If it's possible with the tie-offs I'd string the last mains and tie off at the bottom. String the crosses top-to-bottom.
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Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Sounds doable if 6/7H is tie off hole (and one probepably is) and you want to use an ATW pattern.
On the new Wilson PS97 LS is says 1 piece. I have had other rackets that said 1 piece but I used 2 as I always do. I want to restring this Wilson, should I try 1 piece? And how do I do it? Is there a chart anywhere for this racket?
Even the other PS 97 models say 1 piece but we all know Fed uses hybrid 2 piece.
Confused....
Even the other PS 97 models say 1 piece but we all know Fed uses hybrid 2 piece.
Confused....
hyperion99
Semi-Pro
Hello Drakulie,
Do you typically string for the pros with one piece or the usual 2 piece(standard for most racket setups)?
Thank you
I have never found one piece string jobs faster. It requires pulling more string through the racket. I would much prefer doing it in two pieces. However if you are pulling string off a reel you can save a couple additional feet by using one string.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
I prefer 2 piece myself but I think one piece is faster. The only time you're pulling more string through the racket is for one side of the mains. Also when stringing one piece I will preweave the long side.
uk_skippy
Hall of Fame
Sparkyovcov
Semi-Pro
That is quick
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Whether or not you use the short size to run in the top cross shouldn't make a difference as to whether you can or can't tie off on a cross.
eelhc
Hall of Fame
By tying off on a cross I mean the top and bottom crosses are the tails that get tied off. If I do not run the short side for the top main, I would be tying the outside main off.
This is what I do also. It takes time and planning, especially if you do it with an ATW pattern, but to me that's the way to go with a full bed job. Tension is symmetrical, you have better tension maintenance due to less tie-offs, and you have less wear on the grommets.
am1899
Legend
You can string it 2 piece.
This is from memory...I'll double check the demo I strung up in a bit:
Where H= head and T=throat:
Main skips - 8T, 8H, 10T, 10H
Tie mains - 9H
Tie crosses - 6H & 7T
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Wilson allows one piece stringing where the crosses are strung bottom up or you could use an ATW pattern but they recommend two piece stringing. When you say it says I assume you are talking about what TW lists in their specs.
am1899
Legend
Ok I was off. I strung a 97 LS 2 piece with the following tie off locations:
Main skips - 8T, 8H, 10T, 10H
Tie Mains - 7H
Tie Crosses - 5H & 9T
This is true (Wilson allowing crosses from bottom up).
However, stringing the crosses on the RF97 LS from bottom to top (or using any ATW pattern) should be irrelevant, since the mains already end at the head.
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tennisbike
Professional
Beginner 1-pc question:
Personally I found 2-pc more straightforward. Finding the center of main string is easy, just keep two ends together and pull through the grommet.
But on 1-pc, is there a system to easily find the center? What I did was using the yard stick to mark the center spot with a marker. Else if I was trying ATW adding the top cross onto the short side, then there is a bit of "lining" up /guessing involved. I guess that will get easier with practice.
What is a good way to find the center spot on the main string in 1-pc stringing?
Personally I found 2-pc more straightforward. Finding the center of main string is easy, just keep two ends together and pull through the grommet.
But on 1-pc, is there a system to easily find the center? What I did was using the yard stick to mark the center spot with a marker. Else if I was trying ATW adding the top cross onto the short side, then there is a bit of "lining" up /guessing involved. I guess that will get easier with practice.
What is a good way to find the center spot on the main string in 1-pc stringing?
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
When I strike with an ATW pattern I use the short side to string all the mains on the short side, the bottom cross, outside main on the long side and the top cross. For a mid+ 16 main racket that takes 5 racket lengths plus about 6”
EDIT: If that pattern does not work right for the racket then I always go for 2 piece stringing.
EDIT: If that pattern does not work right for the racket then I always go for 2 piece stringing.
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tennisbike
Professional
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
You only use the mid point if you’re stringing 2 piece. If the racket is strung 1 piece you don’t use the mid point.
am1899
Legend
This is one aspect where stringing 1pc is different from 2pc.
When you string 2pc, before your first pull, you want to pull equal amounts of string through 1LM and 1RM - thus finding the “mid point” of the length of string you’re using for the mains.
You don’t want to do this when you string 1pc. Instead, you want to measure your short side and leave the rest for the long side. The divide between the short side and long side part of the string - in a sense that’s your “mid point.”
Here’s a video of one way to do it:
tennisbike
Professional
Appreciate your explanation and the video.
Yes, that is it, the "loop". Seeing it on the video is great. I hope practice will make it easier and bring more confidence. I just keep feeling like perhaps the string slipped through my finger and I lost the spot.
Yes, that is it, the "loop". Seeing it on the video is great. I hope practice will make it easier and bring more confidence. I just keep feeling like perhaps the string slipped through my finger and I lost the spot.
am1899
Legend
I do it a bit different, which may or may not help. It may also be difficult for me to describe. But I’ll try.
First off, one way I (and some others) measure is by measuring lengths of string between the hoop and the throat. This isn’t the most efficient way to measure by any means. But to quickly measure a short side it serves me well. Like this:
So when I string 1pc, I start by inserting 1 end of the string through the first main on the long side (for the purposes of this example, let’s say that’s 1RM). And just for additional clarity, if the racquet has 6 mains in the throat, when I put the string through 1RM to get started, I start at the head. If the racquet had 8 mains in the throat, it would be the opposite - 1RM on the long side I would start by inserting the string through the throat. This might sound backwards, but if I’m describing this well enough, give it a try - you’ll see that it works out.
So going back to the example of a racquet with 6 mains in the throat, I lace 1RM (the long side), and route the string through the throat side grommet for 1LM (which in this case is the short side). Remember, I’m only working with one end of the length of string (the other end of the string will be untouched in this process, and in my case is probably laying on the floor). But before I pull any additional string through to the short side, I use the method depicted in the video above to precisely measure the short side. When I have enough string for the short side (and sometimes a little extra to tie off), I stop pulling string from the long side. Then I (carefully) lace in 1LM. If you’re careful, you won’t have to mark or hold anything. At this point I’m ready to start the mains.
First off, one way I (and some others) measure is by measuring lengths of string between the hoop and the throat. This isn’t the most efficient way to measure by any means. But to quickly measure a short side it serves me well. Like this:
So when I string 1pc, I start by inserting 1 end of the string through the first main on the long side (for the purposes of this example, let’s say that’s 1RM). And just for additional clarity, if the racquet has 6 mains in the throat, when I put the string through 1RM to get started, I start at the head. If the racquet had 8 mains in the throat, it would be the opposite - 1RM on the long side I would start by inserting the string through the throat. This might sound backwards, but if I’m describing this well enough, give it a try - you’ll see that it works out.
So going back to the example of a racquet with 6 mains in the throat, I lace 1RM (the long side), and route the string through the throat side grommet for 1LM (which in this case is the short side). Remember, I’m only working with one end of the length of string (the other end of the string will be untouched in this process, and in my case is probably laying on the floor). But before I pull any additional string through to the short side, I use the method depicted in the video above to precisely measure the short side. When I have enough string for the short side (and sometimes a little extra to tie off), I stop pulling string from the long side. Then I (carefully) lace in 1LM. If you’re careful, you won’t have to mark or hold anything. At this point I’m ready to start the mains.
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tennisbike
Professional
@am1899 Thank you again for your explanation.
Let me see if I am picturing what you wrote: (using 16x19, 6 mains in the throat as example)
Let me see if I am picturing what you wrote: (using 16x19, 6 mains in the throat as example)
- Thread "short end" of string through 1RM from head to throat. And push through about enough string for the rest of the short side.
- Thread 1LM through throat grommet. Hold the end, pull string to line up to the head. Repeat 7 more times to reach the "center spot/mark".
- Without moving the string (the mark), carefully lace the short side/LM, or begin stringing starting from LM.
