Can Rec Players Really Rack up Aces?

Topspin Shot · Apr 7, 2014

I see a lot of posters on this board claiming they hit aces on a regular basis in their matches. The problem is, I just don't see it in real life. There are a few tall guys with big serves and weak groundstrokes who can do it, but from what I see, aces just don't happen more than a couple times a match. I figure maybe adults are different from juniors (because they've spent more time honing their placement and can't move as well to return well-placed serves), but I've watched decent adult players play and don't see many aces there either. Anyone want to share some observations?

RoddickAce · Apr 7, 2014

I think aces don't come by very often because most rec players that have to deal with big serves, already have decent enough reflexes/movement to at least get a racquet or the frame on the serve. And the serves at that threshold aren't big enough to beat the human reaction.

This is assuming that both players are at similar levels though, and not at some social league with a mix of all levels of players playing against each other.

esgee48 · Apr 7, 2014

I agree with you. The only time I see more than a handful of aces is when the opponents are of unequal level. But even someone playing up a level does not get aced that much. 2 levels difference is another story. See it sometimes at Open level tournaments, when a 4.5 runs into a 5.5 or 6.0 D1 singles player. But that is not the situation you described.

Fuji · Apr 7, 2014

It's because a lot of rec players don't have that great of placement. It's not hard to hit aces if you can pick your spots well. There's also the issue of outright aces and unreturned serves. At my level I see a decent amount of aces, but WAY more serves that a receiver touches but doesn't get back over the net.

Aces are an accumulation of placement, pace, speed, and spin. IMO the biggest issue is placement. Many rec players go for higher percentages whether it be just getting it in the box, or attempting to set up points at higher levels with their serve. For someone like me who serves decently well for my level, I occasionally go for the big bomb up the T, and I can get a couple easy points of I pick my spots well. However, it is not that high a percentage of play, so you really have to choose when to go for the ace. I usually average about 1 a game these days, sometimes more if I'm playing half decently. For many people though this isn't the standard.

-Fuji

dknotty · Apr 7, 2014

How many aces in a set is "racking up the aces"?

Even pros don't really rack up the aces, but noticeably good servers with great placement get many free points.

dman72 · Apr 7, 2014

Topspin Shot said:
I see a lot of posters on this board claiming they hit aces on a regular basis in their matches. The problem is, I just don't see it in real life. There are a few tall guys with big serves and weak groundstrokes who can do it, but from what I see, aces just don't happen more than a couple times a match. I figure maybe adults are different from juniors (because they've spent more time honing their placement and can't move as well to return well-placed serves), but I've watched decent adult players play and don't see many aces there either. Anyone want to share some observations?

I'm good for 2 to 3 aces per 3 set match at best, and I have the second hardest serve in my league..the first being a guy with a poor first serve %. However, service winners I'm probably getting 8-10 per match.

I charted an outdoor match I recorded against a guy I play regularly who is 4.0 USTA. His strength is movement and consistency, and I had one ace and 9 service winners in 2 sets. I lost 3 and 3, if I can recall. (I had 41 UE to his 26, and that was the difference.).

No one in my league is as quick as this guy, so it makes sense I can get a few more past them. Most I can ever recall hitting is maybe six on an on night against a slower footed opponent. Most I've ever had hit against me was probably 5 or six from a big hitting kid.

TennisCJC · Apr 7, 2014

I play ALTA league tennis now and Ultimate Tennis singles league with mostly 4.0 and 4.5 level players and most servers don't hit many aces at all. Like 0-3 in a singles match. The best servers maybe hit 2-3 per set. 4 to 5 aces in a set is very rare.

But, I have not seen any "ace machines" except for maybe the odd sand bagger that is playing down to win.

Topspin Shot · Apr 7, 2014

dknotty said:
How many aces in a set is "racking up the aces"?

Even pros don't really rack up the aces, but noticeably good servers with great placement get many free points.

3-5 aces per set or something like that. Maybe my memory of past TT posts is steering me wrong, but I feel like a significant number of posters have claimed to hit that many aces regularly.

cjs · Apr 7, 2014

Topspin Shot said:
I see a lot of posters on this board claiming they hit aces on a regular basis in their matches. The problem is, I just don't see it in real life. There are a few tall guys with big serves and weak groundstrokes who can do it, but from what I see, aces just don't happen more than a couple times a match. I figure maybe adults are different from juniors (because they've spent more time honing their placement and can't move as well to return well-placed serves), but I've watched decent adult players play and don't see many aces there either. Anyone want to share some observations?

Define "rec player".

I define it as anyone who is not travelling the world to play tennis and getting paid for it. So at the top end of the rec player spectrum yes you will see lots of aces.

dknotty · Apr 7, 2014

Topspin Shot said:
3-5 aces per set or something like that. Maybe my memory of past TT posts is steering me wrong, but I feel like a significant number of posters have claimed to hit that many aces regularly.

I get the that about 50%-75% of the time (when I play matches).

Topspin Shot · Apr 7, 2014

cjs said:
Define "rec player".

I define it as anyone who is not travelling the world to play tennis and getting paid for it. So at the top end of the rec player spectrum yes you will see lots of aces.

Rec player as in below D1 recruits. Matt Lin would be the borderline. But even still, I don't see too many aces watching most top D1 college players let alone typical rec players.

Power Player · Apr 7, 2014

I could rack up aces as a junior. I could win games with 4 straight aces sometimes. It was awesome. Not sure what happened there, but I will say my 2nd serve was a major letdown if I missed that first one.

AtomicForehand · Apr 7, 2014

I am a 4.0 woman with a decent serve. I normally hit 2-3 outright aces per match and another 5 or 6 unreturnables on my first serves. On a good serving day I double those numbers. My record is 7 aces in one (two-set) match.

My second serve is good for a handful of unreturnables per match as well. I may even get an ace or two on the second serve because of the funky spins.

Of course, some days I serve like @ss and wonder what the heck happened to me...

tennis_balla · Apr 7, 2014

The worlds greatest players post on TTW. Forget ATP, this is where its at.

user92626 · Apr 7, 2014

what qualifies an ace?

returner cannot even touch the ball with his racket, right?

tennis_balla · Apr 7, 2014

dman72 · Apr 7, 2014

user92626 said:
what qualifies an ace?

returner cannot even touch the ball with his racket, right?

Yes.

Of course, a 3.5 hitting an ace against another 3.5 is a relative thing...99% of those "aces" would come back if a pro were standing on the other side of the net.

That's why the whole "the greatest players reside on TT" post by tennis_balla is taking a shot at a strawman.

tennis_ocd · Apr 7, 2014

Proving that the only thing better than the average ttw 110mph firsts is their return game.

user92626 · Apr 7, 2014

dman72 said:
Yes.

Oh well, I don't have that many aces then. Maybe average 1 every other month.

But if you count messed up returns, I do have plenty with my lefty serve.

tennis_balla · Apr 7, 2014

user92626 · Apr 7, 2014

No straw women, balla?

Maximagq · Apr 7, 2014

Topspin Shot said:
Rec player as in below D1 recruits. Matt Lin would be the borderline. But even still, I don't see too many aces watching most top D1 college players let alone typical rec players.

From my experience, unless I'm playing a huge guy like Clay Thompson or a few guys above 6 feet 3, there arent that many aces. Definitely not double digits. They would top out at 5 a match.

tennis_balla · Apr 7, 2014

Not many here.

I, tennis_balla, fully stand behind my statement when I stated the statement which stated the best players reside right here on TTW. This statement will self destruct in 5 second...

Maximagq · Apr 7, 2014

For example, in my match against di giulio, I think I got aced at most three times. I've played bigger servers like abe hewko though and he aced me about 7 times.

Topspin Shot · Apr 7, 2014

tennis_balla said:
Not many here.

I, tennis_balla, fully stand behind my statement when I stated the statement which stated the best players reside right here on TTW. This statement will self destruct in 5 second...

Not if I quote you first! Mwahahaha!

dman72 · Apr 7, 2014

tennis_balla said:

You're good at posting pictures, but the point you've been trying to make from the beginning is stupid. You can post 6 more pictures and that won't change.

GoudX · Apr 7, 2014

Topspin Shot said:
3-5 aces per set or something like that. Maybe my memory of past TT posts is steering me wrong, but I feel like a significant number of posters have claimed to hit that many aces regularly.

Around 1-4 aces per set is pretty normal for me, but I can afford take a lot of risks on my first serve as I have a reliable and effective second serve.

What most players don't realise is that aces come from placement, disguise, tactics, and spin. Like any attempt at a clean winner, pure pace without placement and disguise lets the opponent get a racquet to it. The best ace attempts are very well placed and come completely unexpectedly like a good dropshot.

I mostly hit kick serves and flat serves into the body but I have a kick pace I can send down the middle like Sampras and a wide slice which can get clean past the opponent from the deuce side. From the Ad side I tend to kick to the backhand so a well placed flat or kick/pace down the middle can get an ace.

tennis_balla · Apr 7, 2014

dman72 said:
You're good at posting pictures, but the point you've been trying to make from the beginning is stupid. You can post 6 more pictures and that won't change.

Which point would that be?

tennis_balla · Apr 7, 2014

Topspin Shot said:
Not if I quote you first! Mwahahaha!

LeeD · Apr 7, 2014

Tough to deferentiate an "unreturnable" serve from an ace.
"Unreturnable considering the level of play, of course.
And if the returner just stands 2' behind the baseline and only blocks the returns back, high and slow, there are less aces. Some returners are very good at cutting off angles, defending body shots, and yet have long reach. But, they usually hit a slower, floatier return that can be a sitter for the server.

dman72 · Apr 7, 2014

tennis_balla said:
Which point would that be?

You are insinuating that people posting how many aces they hit per match is bragging, akin to people saying they can serve 120MPH when we know most likely they can't.

It's not really the same thing, but maybe that's asking for too much nuance from you.

But, go ahead, continue to be irrelevant..and keep posting pictures. Maybe post 20 more and someone will forget what your initial input in the thread was, which was stupid.

dman72 · Apr 7, 2014

tennis_balla said:
The worlds greatest players post on TTW. Forget ATP, this is where its at.

After you post 5 more pictures, here's your first contribution.

Again, if the point wasn't insulting anyone who dares claim they hit an ace against someone at their level, what was the point....? to just be stupid?

tennis_balla · Apr 7, 2014

dman72 said:
After you post 5 more pictures, here's your first contribution.

Again, if the point wasn't insulting anyone who dares claim they hit an ace against someone at their level, what was the point....? to just be stupid?

Here I'll spell it out for you....

Topspin Shot said:
I see a lot of posters on this board claiming they hit aces on a regular basis in their matches. The problem is, I just don't see it in real life.

tennis_balla said:
The worlds greatest players post on TTW. Forget ATP, this is where its at.

You posted before me. Seems like you took offence. Seriously?

dman72 · Apr 7, 2014

tennis_balla said:
Here I'll spell it out for you....

You posted before me. Seems like you took offence. Seriously?

I posted before you saying I'm good for 2 to 3 aces in a 3 set match...

...in response to the OP, who said "a couple"...

..and read that as me taking "offence" to the OP?

Your reading comprehension stinks.

GuyClinch · Apr 7, 2014

Of course, a 3.5 hitting an ace against another 3.5 is a relative thing...99% of those "aces" would come back if a pro were standing on the other side of the net.

This. Players that hit aces just have a big serve relative to the rest of their game. There really are rec players who hit big serves and don't have much else. Often if you have played other sports where you have developed a good throwing motion you can quickly learn to pound serves. Against hapless low level players you will get aces.

tennis_balla · Apr 7, 2014

*sigh* Obviously you do take offence if you're still going on about it. I answered the OP post, I didn't read what anyone else wrote including your post. Also, OP is 100% correct in suggesting people online over-exaggerate their skill level. I made fun of that remark, its called sarcasm. Long Island must be a boring place.

WildVolley · Apr 7, 2014

Frankly, all these "people aren't as good as they say" threads are stupid and pointless.

Why don't we get back to tips and instruction and just stop worrying about how good people think they are?

sureshs · Apr 7, 2014

I think I have served 3 aces my entire life.

dman72 · Apr 7, 2014

tennis_balla said:
*sigh* Obviously you do take offence if you're still going on about it. I answered the OP post, I didn't read what anyone else wrote including your post. Also, OP is 100% correct in suggesting people online over-exaggerate their skill level. I made fun of that remark, its called sarcasm. Long Island must be a boring place.

Oh, so you are another kid saying that other people suck more than they think they suck.....and I'm the boring one? Okay "balla".

dman72 · Apr 7, 2014

WildVolley said:
Frankly, all these "people aren't as good as they say" threads are stupid and pointless.

Why don't we get back to tips and instruction and just stop worrying about how good people think they are?

What else will kids do then...I mean, if you can't go around the internet saying that someone elses: song/favorite band/chili recipe/haircut/girlfriend/car/tennis strokes SUCK, what would stupid teenage kids with computers do?

Avles · Apr 7, 2014

Rec player is a really broad category, but from what I've seen I'd say no. To hit lots of aces you need either good pace and great placement, or great pace and good placement, and I don't think those are very common combos at the rec level.

The big difference between servers as far as I can tell is is not number of aces but service winners and weak replies. I typically get about one ace a match, and maybe 3 or 4 weak replies and genuine service winners (as opposed to "opponent tried to kill weak serve and overhit" type service winners). My better-serving opponents probably only get 2-3 aces a match, but if they are serving well they get at least one service winner/weak reply out of me per game, sometimes more.

TeamOB · Apr 7, 2014

I typically hit around 3-5 per set. Most of my aces come in quick succession. My serve can get hot and hit several in a row and then not hit one the rest of the set.

tennis_balla · Apr 7, 2014

dman72 said:
Oh, so you are another kid saying that other people suck more than they think they suck.....and I'm the boring one? Okay "balla".

I'm only 12, leave me alone.

spaceman_spiff · Apr 8, 2014

Even playing doubles, I can get a couple of aces per set just by doing a sneaky slice on my second serve. I usually target the backhand with a kick serve on my second. But occasionally, when my opponent is really cheating towards that side, I'll throw in a surprise slice serve the other way. This is especially effective against people with weak backhands, as they tend to cheat over to that side more than others on second serves, leaving a big gap on the forehand side.

It doesn't have to be a particularly hard serve to get an ace. The keys are disguise, surprise, and placement.

mawashi · Apr 8, 2014

I might disagree here as I do serve aces rather often. I have yet to crack 20 aces but 5-10 is rather common.

I may not have a huge serve but placement and spin really help.

SteveI · Apr 8, 2014

Topspin Shot said:
I see a lot of posters on this board claiming they hit aces on a regular basis in their matches. The problem is, I just don't see it in real life. There are a few tall guys with big serves and weak groundstrokes who can do it, but from what I see, aces just don't happen more than a couple times a match. I figure maybe adults are different from juniors (because they've spent more time honing their placement and can't move as well to return well-placed serves), but I've watched decent adult players play and don't see many aces there either. Anyone want to share some observations?

If you are playing in a group that you are well matched to...not many will happen. Maybe the best player will get 4-5 on a good day. You will get more service winners to be sure. Some folks confuse this...

LiquidWhip · Apr 8, 2014

SteveI said:
You will get more service winners to be sure. Some folks confuse this...

Agreed - one guy in my box league has a pretty massive serve. Even with this big serve he only gets a handful of aces however he does get plenty of service winners/unreturnables.

tennis_ocd · Apr 8, 2014

WildVolley said:
Why don't we get back to tips and instruction and just stop worrying about how good people think they are?

I get a kick out of the self-inflated game -- we all have it to some degree. But I'm in the camp that the best way to improve is to try and be realistic about your game; recognize areas for improvement, limitations and set achievable, measureable goals.

ProgressoR · Apr 8, 2014

dman72 said:
You're good at posting pictures, but the point you've been trying to make from the beginning is stupid. You can post 6 more pictures and that won't change.

Don't be so quick to judge...

the 4th picture will make me reconsider my views, and the 6th may well push me over the edge.

ProgressoR · Apr 8, 2014

BTW I can easily serve 10 aces a set. Regularly.

When my 6 year old daughter starts complaining "Daddy, I can't reach it" I tell her to man up.

Can Rec Players Really Rack up Aces?

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