Safin vs Nadal - Roland Garros Final

arvind13

arvind13

Professional
IMO, a healthy non injured Safin, had the game to beat Nadal in a French Open final, moreso than djokovic or Soderling.

With Safin you have a guy whose power in his groundstrokes rivals soderling and exceeds that of djokovic. Safin in his prime was a much better mover and shotmaker than soderling. He was also a much better offensive shotmaker than djokovic, had a bigger serve, better backhand and was better at net than Novak. His return of serve was also solid, though not as good as djokovic.

I feel his game is more suited than djokovic's because using offensive big power hitting and big serves and painting the lines is a more effective method at beating nadal at roland garros, because it gets nadal out of his comfort zone and doesn't allow him to play his game of long rallies and grinding down the opponent.

Too bad safin was a headcase and got injured. nadal vs safin had the potential to be a great rivalry

and nadal fans, before you bring up their two meetings in 2007 and 2009, safin's knees were shot and he was a shell of his former self in those matches.
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
arvind13 said:
IMO, a healthy non injured Safin, had the game to beat Nadal in a French Open final, moreso than djokovic or Soderling.

With Safin you have a guy whose power in his groundstrokes rivals soderling and exceeds that of djokovic. Safin in his prime was a much better mover and shotmaker than soderling. He was also a much better offensive shotmaker than djokovic, had a bigger serve, better backhand and was better at net than Novak. His return of serve was also solid, though not as good as djokovic.

I feel his game is more suited than djokovic's because using offensive big power hitting and big serves and painting the lines is a more effective method at beating nadal at roland garros, because it gets nadal out of his comfort zone and doesn't allow him to play his game of long rallies and grinding down the opponent.

Too bad safin was a headcase and got injured. nadal vs safin had the potential to be a great rivalry

and nadal fans, before you bring up their two meetings in 2007 and 2009, safin's knees were shot and he was a shell of his former self in those matches.
Click to expand...
Nadal easily
 
TheAssassin

TheAssassin

Legend
Safin could be competitive on a good day but I don't doubt Nadal would prevail eventually. He is the king of clay for good reason.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
56425516.jpg
 
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
i'm talking a focused healthy safin. Safin beat federer in 2005 AO but got taken to five sets by benjamin becker in 2007 AO. So just imagine the 2000 US Open final safin playing nadal in a french open final. Soderling did it. It was the fourth round and not the final, but safin a better player than soderling
 
T

tennis24x7

Professional
arvind13 said:
i'm talking a focused healthy safin. Safin beat federer in 2005 AO but got taken to five sets by benjamin becker in 2007 AO. So just imagine the 2000 US Open final safin playing nadal in a french open final. Soderling did it. It was the fourth round and not the final, but safin a better player than soderling
Click to expand...
Sodeling did it only once, what happened the very next year? It was a fluke, correct me if I am wrong did he ever do it again?
 
Grampa

Grampa

Semi-Pro
arvind13 said:
IMO, a healthy non injured Safin, had the game to beat Nadal in a French Open final, moreso than djokovic or Soderling.

With Safin you have a guy whose power in his groundstrokes rivals soderling and exceeds that of djokovic. Safin in his prime was a much better mover and shotmaker than soderling. He was also a much better offensive shotmaker than djokovic, had a bigger serve, better backhand and was better at net than Novak. His return of serve was also solid, though not as good as djokovic.

I feel his game is more suited than djokovic's because using offensive big power hitting and big serves and painting the lines is a more effective method at beating nadal at roland garros, because it gets nadal out of his comfort zone and doesn't allow him to play his game of long rallies and grinding down the opponent.

Too bad safin was a headcase and got injured. nadal vs safin had the potential to be a great rivalry

and nadal fans, before you bring up their two meetings in 2007 and 2009, safin's knees were shot and he was a shell of his former self in those matches.
Click to expand...
no
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Safin would need to be really redlining and nadal at the very least slightly off ...
Most of the times, Nadal would easily wear him down on clay for sure ...

clearly better for Safin to meet him in 3R/4R as opposed to a final as well.
 
aman92

aman92

Legend
By this logic, Safin would be beat peak Federer on hard courts as well since he already did it once at the Aus Open
 
M

MajesticTennisManiac

Rookie
On HC peak Satin > peak Nadal

In a French Open final though I doubt he could manage a win.He was a competent clay courter but Nadal clearly better on clay.

A 4R-QF encounter on damp clay might've been interesting.

Injury really ruined Safins career.Retirement at 29 seems so bizarre nowadays.
 
W

World Beater

Hall of Fame
this match only looks good on paper...and safin looks great on paper against a whole host of opponents.

but he still lost to many guys who he had no business losing to.

funny thing is that before they even played a match, ppl speculated based on paper, that fed should eat nadal alive on every surface...didnt happen...

i could easily see safin get frustrated by nadal's defense.

if they played 10 matches, nadal still wins 9 of them on clay and safin wins the other one only if he zones on clay, which he honestly rarely did!
 
Kobble

Kobble

Hall of Fame
He had the backhand to face Nadal unlike all the others. Kuertens ball never bothered Safin on clay.
 
C

ChrisRF

Legend
arvind13 said:
With Safin you have a guy whose power in his groundstrokes rivals soderling and exceeds that of djokovic.
Click to expand...
That may be true for a Safin shot which lands in the court. The problem is that he always made tons of errors, even in his best matches. Nadal would bring back one shot too many for Safin in almost every rallye on clay.
 
Cashman

Cashman

Hall of Fame
'Peak Safin' reached mythological proportions years ago.

Safin was an absolutely epic ballstriker, perhaps the best ever to be seen at the top level - but mostly average elsewhere (although he did move quite well for a big guy). People talk about him as having unfulfilled potential because he never sustained his best, but ignore that the very nature of his game is what made him so erratic. It's largely the same as Del Potro, Soderling, Berdych - their best is so intoxicating that you think they just need to learn how to replicate it consistently. But their best is only their best because they sacrifice the opportunity to be consistent.

Fans often say "Safin had all the tools but he just didn't have the mental strength" but I disagree with that. He often demonstrated plenty of mental strength - in Grand Slams, in Davis Cup, you name it. All it really comes down to is that nobody can play the sorts of massive, heavy, purely-hit strokes that he did and expect them not to go off the boil on a regular basis. He could beat anyone on his day, but he'd probably lose to them the rest of the week.

Two Slams, two finals and a brief sojurn at #1 is probably not a bad reflection of his talents - although I reckon he probably would have been good for another one or two titles had he stayed injury free between 2003 and 2005. I certainly don't think he is a lost great of the game, the way some would like to portray him.
 
Last edited:
Backspin1183

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
Not on clay. On hard court Safin was significantly better than Federer. So, would have done better against Nadal than Federer did for sure.
 
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
Cashman said:
'Peak Safin' reached mythological proportions years ago.

Safin was an absolutely epic ballstriker, perhaps the best ever to be seen at the top level - but mostly average elsewhere (although he did move quite well for a big guy). People talk about him as having unfulfilled potential because he never sustained his best, but ignore that the very nature of his game is what made him so erratic. It's largely the same as Del Potro, Soderling, Berdych - their best is so intoxicating that you think they just need to learn how to replicate it consistently. But their best is only their best because they sacrifice the opportunity to be consistent.

Fans often say "Safin had all the tools but he just didn't have the mental strength" but I disagree with that. He often demonstrated plenty of mental strength - in Grand Slams, in Davis Cup, you name it. All it really comes down to is that nobody can play the sorts of massive, heavy, purely-hit strokes that he did and expect them not to go off the boil on a regular basis. He could beat anyone on his day, but he'd probably lose to them the rest of the week.

Two Slams, two finals and a brief sojurn at #1 is probably not a bad reflection of his talents - although I reckon he probably would have been good for another one or two titles had he stayed injury free between 2003 and 2005. I certainly don't think he is a lost great of the game, the way some would like to portray him.
Click to expand...


this is a misconception about safin, that he was a ballbasher gambling with his shots, that he just hit it hard hoping it goes in and most of the time it went out so his game itself is unsustainable. its complete BS. Lukas Rosol was that kind of player. he's a lousy shotmaker with no movement and no variety who hits the ball hard hoping it goes in. on the rare occasion it goes in he can beat the top players. thats why he never got out of the bottom of the rankings. safin for large periods of time not just for one tournament or one match could sustain that game. in 2000 alone he won seven titles and reached world no 1 which berdych and soderling never did. safin in addition to power, was an excellent mover, a great ROS, he had good (not great) touch and feel at net, and he had more variety than ppl like soderling or berdych. It is indeed injury and the fact that he was a headcase that held him back. he DID have all the tools to dominate the game. the fact that he reached no 1 and won two grand slams shows that he's not a rosol type player
 
Devin

Devin

Semi-Pro
The best way to beat Nadal on clay involves serving well, volleying well, hitting flat to the forehand, hitting heavy to the backhand, and praying that Nadal is not at his best. They also must have some resistance to the Nadal forehand heading towards the backhand. Can Safin do all of that, I don't know.
 
George Turner

George Turner

Hall of Fame
The modern day Safin is Zverev. We've seen what peak Zverev can do, taking out Fedovic to win the world tour finals.

Lets see these two slug it out at the French before deciding whether Safin could take out Nadal.
 
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
Devin said:
The best way to beat Nadal on clay involves serving well, volleying well, hitting flat to the forehand, hitting heavy to the backhand, and praying that Nadal is not at his best. They also must have some resistance to the Nadal forehand heading towards the backhand. Can Safin do all of that, I don't know.
Click to expand...

yes he can. when he is redlining and healthy
 
Luka888

Luka888

Professional
Funny thread but no. I'm a big fan of Safin but he wouldn't be able to beat Nadal at RG. Soderling did happen once and that was one of those days when everything is working for you ... I just think no. Nadal is too good on clay. Safin was not a 'great' clay player.

Also, I have to add this. Marat is so loved because he was so cool and a great looking guy.
 
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
Luka888 said:
Funny thread but no. I'm a big fan of Safin but he wouldn't be able to beat Nadal at RG. Soderling did happen once and that was one of those days when everything is working for you ... I just think no. Nadal is too good on clay. Safin was not a 'great' clay player.

Also, I have to add this. Marat is so loved because he was so cool and a great looking guy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i'm not saying he would beat him regularly. I'm saying when he was focused and healthy and was having a good day and playing his game. he had a better chance of beating nadal at RG final than others.
 
B

BringBackSV

Hall of Fame
arvind13 said:
this is a misconception about safin, that he was a ballbasher gambling with his shots, that he just hit it hard hoping it goes in and most of the time it went out so his game itself is unsustainable. its complete BS. Lukas Rosol was that kind of player. he's a lousy shotmaker with no movement and no variety who hits the ball hard hoping it goes in. on the rare occasion it goes in he can beat the top players. thats why he never got out of the bottom of the rankings. safin for large periods of time not just for one tournament or one match could sustain that game. in 2000 alone he won seven titles and reached world no 1 which berdych and soderling never did. safin in addition to power, was an excellent mover, a great ROS, he had good (not great) touch and feel at net, and he had more variety than ppl like soderling or berdych. It is indeed injury and the fact that he was a headcase that held him back. he DID have all the tools to dominate the game. the fact that he reached no 1 and won two grand slams shows that he's not a rosol type player
Click to expand...

In fairness, neither Soderling or Berdych played pro in 2000. Out of curiousity, which clay event or clay season Safin are you envsioning being peak clay GOAt material?
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Safin wouldn't beat Nadal at RG even if he was "playing his game" because he'd miss way too much over 5 sets. Keep in mind, even Safin playing well will make a lot of errors against Nadal on clay. I'm sure this shatters the idea that some people have that peak Safin was unplayable or some other such BS that I've heard many times since he beat Federer at AO 2005.

Safin doesn't have the movement to hang with Nadal on clay. There have been 2 guys in about 15 years that had/have legitimate chances against Nadal on clay. Federer in the early years (05 and 06 only), and Djokovic in a handful (11-14 and 19 specifically). Of course, it does Djokovic no good when he can't get through the draw or he touches the net when he's up a break in the 5th.

Soderling was a lightning strike that will never happen again, and the reasons for Djokovic's success against Nadal involve things that Safin can't do consistently. Like return the ball at Nadal's feet, and have a 2HBH on the stretch that can somewhat stand up to the Nadal FH. Plus, as mentioned above, Djokovic's movement is leagues above Safin even for as good a mover as Safin was at 6'4.

Saying Safin would have better chances than Djokovic is laughable.
 
Last edited:
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
Steve0904 said:
Safin wouldn't beat Nadal at RG even if he was "playing his game" because he'd miss way too much over 5 sets. Keep in mind, even Safin playing well will make a lot of errors against Nadal on clay. I'm sure this shatters the idea that some people have that peak Safin was unplayable or some other such BS that I've heard many times since he beat Federer at AO 2005.

Safin doesn't have the movement to hang with Nadal on clay. There have been 2 guys in about 15 years that had/have legitimate chances against Nadal on clay. Federer in the early years (05 and 06 only), and Djokovic in a handful (11-14 and 19 specifically). Of course, it does Djokovic no good when he can't get through the draw or he touches the net when he's up a break in the 5th.
Click to expand...

yes but if safin is redlining, it probably won't go to five sets. he would do what soderling did to nadal. except peak safin was much better player than soderling in every way. so yes, nadal would win most of the time. safin is certainly not the favourite. even if he's focused and playing his game he would lose most of the time to nadal at french open final. but his game is more suited to beating nadal on clay than federer.
 
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
BringBackSV said:
So, better than more succesful and objectively better clay court players. That's an interesting one, which clay performances convince you of that?
Click to expand...

so roddick was objectively better hard court player than safin in terms of results. doest mean squat. safin when uninjured and focused had a much better game than roddick
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

RAFA2005RG
Beating Nadal in the Roland Garros Final is the toughest feat in tennis history?
2
Replies
84
Views
9K
DropShotArtist
D
G
  • Poll
2015 Roland Garros final Stanislas Wawrinka vs 2017 Roland Garros final Rafael Nadal match
Replies
34
Views
1K
Jonas78
J
Mr.Federer
Safin vs Ivanisevic...who had a better career?
Replies
29
Views
2K
boredone3456
boredone3456
newpball
Discussion on Djokovic's victory on Roland-Garros
Replies
6
Views
548
Mainad
Mainad
R
Why Federer was not as dominant at Wimbledon than Nadal at Roland Garros ?
2
Replies
87
Views
3K
SonnyT
S
Top