Nadal FO win over Federer vital

P

Pantera

Banned
Towser83 said:
He appears to only have that problem on clay (and I dont know if that is even the reason he lost at RG, Nadal is just a better player on clay so it's not like the backhand is the one issue, also was very windy so hard to k ow how solid Fed's shots could be on clay vs Nadal) fed beat Nadal the last 5 times they played on HC and 3 were outdoor matches



They haven't, but they've played elsewhere on HC and Fed has won



Sorry, USO is not Nadal's pet slam, hes won it 3 times in the 10 years, that's not owning it. Djokovic has also won it 3 times in one year less and 3 more have gone to one time winners. No one owns the USO in the last 10 years, Djokovic and Nadal share the most times in that time

Djokovic beat Nadal this year at the AO but does that mean only Djokovic beats him at the AO now? I think there should be at least 2 years in a row with one player being only stopped by the same one opponent before this can really be said. Last year Nadal lost to Cilic, the year before Federer, hes been stopped by a lot of players



Djokovic has beaten Nadal at the USO though, it's only 2-1 to Nadal. On the other hand Djokovic is 2-0 vs Nadal at the AO. Both small sample sizes though



Djokovic has the best USO record of the past decade, 3 wins and 3 finals compared to 3 wins and 1 final from Nadal
Click to expand...
Disagree re USO. Nadal has the h2h. At their level runners up spots dont really register.

3 slams at one Major makes it a pet slam...becker at wimbledon for instance.

12 FOs is insane it makes 3 seem poor but i think we have to look at each major individually.

Nadal won canada last year so. He clearly is top 2 on hard courts now.
 
Towser83

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Pantera said:
If federer loses its a disaster legacy wise at wimbledon as he clearly isnt undisputed King...not 0-3 in finals v his main grass court rival.
Click to expand...

Ah I liked you when you became more reasonable but I guess the loss has caused you to get salty.

Its nog a disaster for Federer, at nearly 38 it's amazing he can even make a Wimbledon final. Djokovic never even played him at Wimbledon until fed was nearly 31 (same age Sampras played his last Wimbledon and was beaten in round 2) and didnt beat Fed til he was nearly 33

Djokovic never played him at Wimbledon in his prime
 
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Pantera

Banned
herronpaul said:
In other words he doesn't have:

the slam count
the WTF count
the masters count (doesn't have all 9)
Olympics medal record
YE no 1
weeks no 1
Career titles

what numbers??
Click to expand...
Nadal has the most Majors peak v peak v peak. Google it. Nadal has all the important numbers...but u havent answered the question? Where is your old profile? We have chatted before same topic lol.
 
J

JackGates

Legend
Pantera said:
If federer loses its a disaster legacy wise at wimbledon as he clearly isnt undisputed King...not 0-3 in finals v his main grass court rival.
Click to expand...
Not really, it's much better to lose the final, than to lose in the semis. If Fed lost vs Rafa and didn't make finals, that in my opinion is much worse for his legacy. How is extra GS final bad for his legacy?
 
James695

James695

Rookie
Pantera said:
the Roland Garros victory was significant as given that was fairly one sided albeit closer than scoreline suggested it is hard to see Federer beating Nadal outside Wimbledon especially if Federer suffers heartbreak on Sunday which i fear may see Federer fall away.

On grass Federer doesnt have the problems in his BH against Nadal he has elsewhere other than indoors
Click to expand...

Nadal hasn’t beaten Federer outside of the French since the first month of 2014.

Federer has beaten Nadal 5 times outside of Wimbledon in that time.

Laugh at OP. End thread.
 
P

Pantera

Banned
Towser83 said:
Ah I liked you when you became more reasonable but I guess the loss has caused you to get salty.

Its nog a disaster for Federer, at nearly 38 it's amazing he can even make a Wimbledon final. Djokovic never even played him at Wimbledon until fed was nearly 31 (same age Sampras played his last Wimbledon and was beaten in round 2) and didnt beat Fed til he was nearly 33

Djokovic never played him at Wimbledon in his prime
Click to expand...
Oh come on!!! U cant use that excuse!! Federer has just beat Nadal. Or are u saying Nadal is post prime as well?

Federer has just made the final. Of course it is a legacy defining match. Try tweeting Djokovic his win doesnt count as Federer is too old...see what response may be forthcoming.

Nadal has just beat thiem who his 8 years younger in paris. This age stuff is tiresome.

Sunday is huge.
 
Feather

Feather

Legend
Pantera said:
Disagree re USO. Nadal has the h2h. At their level runners up spots dont really register.

3 slams at one Major makes it a pet slam...becker at wimbledon for instance.

12 FOs is insane it makes 3 seem poor but i think we have to look at each major individually.

Nadal won canada last year so. He clearly is top 2 on hard courts now.
Click to expand...

Roger won Miami and runners up in Cincinnati and IW. So Rafa is not clearly top 2. We will see by the end of the year
 
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Towser83

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Pantera said:
Disagree re USO. Nadal has the h2h. At their level runners up spots dont really register.

3 slams at one Major makes it a pet slam...becker at wimbledon for instance.

12 FOs is insane it makes 3 seem poor but i think we have to look at each major individually.

Nadal won canada last year so. He clearly is top 2 on hard courts now.
Click to expand...

Djokovic has made 8 uso finals EIGHT. hes always there waiting for Nadal, just cos Nadal shows up when hes in good form and managed to win 2 out of 3 doesnt mean hes the better us open player where was he all the other years Djokovic was making the final? Djokovic has only failed to meet Nadal one time when Nadal has made the final and Djokovic didnt even enter the event. Of the 8 times Djokovic has reached the final Nadal has only made it 3 times

I dont think 3 times in 10 years makes it a pet slam but even if it did then Nadal and Djokovic share it. Sorry but Nadal does not dominate the USO. Fed won the AO 3 times in 9 years but it's not his pet slam

Nadal is good on HC but last year he hardly played on them. This year he reached the AO final so we will have to see if he keeps up the deep runs in the American HC swing
 
P

Pantera

Banned
James695 said:
Nadal hasn’t beaten Federer outside of the French since the first month of 2014.

Federer has beaten Nadal 5 times outside of Wimbledon in that time.

Laugh at OP. End thread.
Click to expand...
Federer doesnt make it far enough in hard court Majors to get to Nadal..nadal cant beat a player not there lol
 
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Pantera

Banned
Feather said:
Roger won Miami and runners up in Cincinnati and IW. So Rafa is not clearly top 2. We will see by the end of the year
Click to expand...
So Nadal won Canada...outperformed Federer at USO and AO. Nadal clearly top 2. But yes year not over yet. Time will tell...like 2017 i guess
 
Towser83

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Pantera said:
Oh come on!!! U cant use that excuse!! Federer has just beat Nadal. Or are u saying Nadal is post prime as well?

Federer has just made the final. Of course it is a legacy defining match. Try tweeting Djokovic his win doesnt count as Federer is too old...see what response may be forthcoming.

Nadal has just beat thiem who his 8 years younger in paris. This age stuff is tiresome.

Sunday is huge.
Click to expand...

Yes Nadal is post prime, they both played well but they arent as good as they used to be let's face it.

Also you cant compare Thiem with Djokovic. Djokovic is an all time great with 15 slams!

And it's not an excuse but it's a fact that Djokovic never met Federer at Wimbledon until he was more prime than Federer. 2011 Djokovic hit his peak and all his meetings with fed have been since then, not even one Wimbledon before that and when Fed was more prime. The thing is fed gets no credit for beating young Djokovic and Nadal so why do they get all the credit for beating old Fed?

It's not that Djokovic winning wouldnt count but it's the fact that Fed didnt get the chance to play Djokovic at Wimbledon when Fed was prime and Djokovic not, because that would even out the Wimbledon h2h. Instead it's all stacked in Djokovic's favour, which by the way isnt the case with Fed vs Nadal because Fed did get to play an inexperienced Nadal in 2006
 
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Fed881981

Fed881981

Hall of Fame
Pantera said:
the Roland Garros victory was significant as given that was fairly one sided albeit closer than scoreline suggested it is hard to see Federer beating Nadal outside Wimbledon especially if Federer suffers heartbreak on Sunday which i fear may see Federer fall away.

On grass Federer doesnt have the problems in his BH against Nadal he has elsewhere other than indoors
Click to expand...
Fed can beat Nadal on every non-clay court.
 
James695

James695

Rookie
Pantera said:
Federer doesnt make it far enough in hard court Majors to get to Nadal..nadal cant beat a player not there lol
Click to expand...

Made it far enough in AO 17 and 18 no?

How many hard court slams have each won since AO14.

Fed 2. Rafa 1.

Re open thread. Laugh at OP again. End thread.
 
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Pantera

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Towser83 said:
Djokovic has made 8 uso finals EIGHT. hes always there waiting for Nadal, just cos Nadal shows up when hes in good form and managed to win 2 out of 3 doesnt mean hes the better us open player where was he all the other years Djokovic was making the final? Djokovic has only failed to meet Nadal one time when Nadal has made the final and Djokovic didnt even enter the event. Of the 8 times Djokovic has reached the final Nadal has only made it 3 times

I dont think 3 times in 10 years makes it a pet slam but even if it did then Nadal and Djokovic share it. Sorry but Nadal does not dominate the USO. Fed won the AO 3 times in 9 years but it's not his pet slam

Nadal is good on HC but last year he hardly played on them. This year he reached the AO final so we will have to see if he keeps up the deep runs in the American HC swing
Click to expand...
So u would prefer a losing h2h against your biggest rival and more runners up spot?

I respect your opinion of thats the case but i can tell u that would drive me mad. I would hate a losing record to my main rival on my best surface at the most prestigious HC event and hate even more a losing overall record in finals.

Nadal has dominated the event with Djokovic. Much like becker and edberg did at wimbledon. Again u cant measure everything with Nadal at FO. Thats just a freak show.
 
8

8675309

New User
Sorry OP - you should quit with this thread...
At least the rest of VB is smart enough to scurry back to their rat holes today.
 
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Pantera

Banned
Towser83 said:
Yes Nadal is post prime, they both played well but they arent as good as they used to be let's face it.

Also you cant compare Thiem with Djokovic. Djokovic is an all time great with 15 slams!

And it's not an excuse but it's a fact that Djokovic never met Federer at Wimbledon until he was more prime than Federer. 2011 Djokovic hit his peak and all his meetings with fed have been since then, not even one Wimbledon before that and when Fed was more prime. The thing is fed gets no credit for beating young Djokovic and Nadal so why do they get allnthe credit for beating old Fed?
Click to expand...
This is the eternal problem. Nadal v Djokovic is an easy comparison but with Federer its always this point about prime time.

I guess we will see how Federer feels should he lose. If he is smiling and not too distraught then we know he is happy with making another final.
 
Towser83

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Pantera said:
So u would prefer a losing h2h against your biggest rival and more runners up spot?

I respect your opinion of thats the case but i can tell u that would drive me mad. I would hate a losing record to my main rival on my best surface at the most prestigious HC event and hate even more a losing overall record in finals.

Nadal has dominated the event with Djokovic. Much like becker and edberg did at wimbledon. Again u cant measure everything with Nadal at FO. Thats just a freak show.
Click to expand...

It's only a one match difference. The fact is Djokovic has been much more consistent than Nadal at the USO. He cant help it that often Nadal has not been good enough to meet him but when he has met him he won one more match. Maybe his best has just been a little better than Nole but he hasn't produced it as much. Djokovic should win more USO titles anyway

I'm not judging by RG standards, I just dont think 3 titles in 10 years is a pet slam
 
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James695

James695

Rookie
In f
Pantera said:
But not in flushing meadows or melbourne in past 12 months
Click to expand...

In almost six years Nadal has won one slam outside of the french, when he didn’t have to play a top 25 player.

Fed has won 2 slams outside of his favourite slam in that time. He beat plenty of top 25 players doing so.

Re open thread. Put OP in straight jacket and wait for assistance to arrive. End thread.
 
P

Pantera

Banned
8675309 said:
Sorry OP - you should quit with this thread...
At least the rest of VB is smart enough to scurry back to their rat holes today.
Click to expand...
It does seem Roland Garros still hurts many...will be more painful of federer cannot get over finish line. Sport is brutal.
 
Towser83

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Pantera said:
This is the eternal problem. Nadal v Djokovic is an easy comparison but with Federer its always this point about prime time.

I guess we will see how Federer feels should he lose. If he is smiling and not too distraught then we know he is happy with making another final.
Click to expand...

Fed will want the title but I think anything he wins is a bonus now
 
H

helterskelter

G.O.A.T.
Pantera said:
American hard courts favour Nadal more than australasian ones.
Click to expand...

The summer ones do, not the spring ones. I actually would give Nadal more chance against Djokovic in Australia than in Indian Wells or Miami, I think. Probably because he's got more chance in best of five than in best of three.
 
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Pantera

Banned
Towser83 said:
It's only a one match difference. The fact is Djokovic has been much more consistent than Nadal at the UDO. He cant help it that often Nadal has not been good enough to meet him but when he has met him he won one more match. Djokovic should win more USO titles anyway

I'm not judging by RG standards, I just dont think 3 titles in 10 years is a pet slam
Click to expand...
Djokovic wasn't there in 2017. We can go in circles using that as an argument. Like Federer doesnt nowadays make it far enough to face Nadal at USO or AO.

Sport is brutal and its about winning. I dont think players like these legends are bothered about runners up plates.
 
P

Pantera

Banned
Towser83 said:
Fed will want the title but I think anything he wins is a bonus now
Click to expand...
I think if he loses it will hurt alot given Djokivic and Nadal will be holding Majors. Id agree with u if it was USO or AO v Djokovic...but not on grass. This is massive.
 
James695

James695

Rookie
Pantera said:
But not in flushing meadows or melbourne in past 12 months
Click to expand...

Top 25 players Federer has beaten in winning slams off his favourite service since beginning of 2014.

Nadal. Wawrinka. Nishikori. Berdych (twice) Cilic.

Top 25 players Nadal has beaten off his favourite service in that time to win a slam.

.............................

And federer is the one who will struggle outside his favourite slam lol
 
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Pantera

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helterskelter said:
The summer ones do, not the spring ones. I actually would give Nadal more chance against Djokovic in Australia than in Indian Wells or Miami, I think. Probably because he's got more chance in best of five than in best of three.
Click to expand...
Yes im talking best of 5. Best of 3 i think Rafa maybe 3rd behind djokovic and Federer on hard. Shame we didnt get nadal v federer at IW tbh. I think Nadal woukd have won...but would have lost in miami had they played although miami was a pantomine in that ridiculous attempt at a stadium
 
P

Pantera

Banned
James695 said:
Top 25 players Federer has beaten in winning slams off his favourite service since beginning of 2014.

Nadal. Wawrinka. Nishikori. Berdych (twice) Cilic.

Top 25 players Nadal has beaten off his favourite service in that time to win a slam.

.............................

And federer is the won who will struggle outside his favourite slam lol
Click to expand...
Dude..who has done better at the past two HC Majors? Nadal or Federer?
 
James695

James695

Rookie
Pantera said:
Dude..who has done better at the past two HC Majors? Nadal or Federer?
Click to expand...

So. Does tennis history only go back 12 months? Not sure what that has to do with Federer struggling to beat Nadal outside Wimbledon.

Didn’t Nadal withdraw from their last hardcourt meeting in Indian Wells?

Nadal has struggled to beat Novak and Federer outside of the french for almost half a decade. That’s a fact.
 
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8675309

New User
Pantera said:
It does seem Roland Garros still hurts many...will be more painful of federer cannot get over finish line. Sport is brutal.
Click to expand...
Awesome - 2 separate replies from one post. Sorry @Pantera, but Fed exhibited a Vulgar Display of Power today, and put the king of mud back in his place.
 
Towser83

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Pantera said:
Djokovic wasn't there in 2017. We can go in circles using that as an argument. Like Federer doesnt nowadays make it far enough to face Nadal at USO or AO.

Sport is brutal and its about winning. I dont think players like these legends are bothered about runners up plates.
Click to expand...

That's the one year Nadal reached the final that Djokovic wasnt there and he skipped that tournament with injury

His record goes

2007 - final
2008 - semi (lost to Fed who won the titke)
2009 - semi (lost to fed)
2010 - final (lost to nadal)
2011 - won
2012 - final
2013 - final
2014 - semi
2015 - won
2016 - final
2017 - did not play
2018 - won

I agree they're not bothered by runners up plates but Djokovic has been the best player at the USO the past 10 years because apart from the 3 wins hes been closer to winning it further times than Nadal

Anyway Nadal has done great winning it 3 times I just think Djokovic edged him
 
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Pantera

Banned
James695 said:
So. Does tennis history only go back 12 months? Not sure what that has to do with Federer struggling to beat Nadal outside Wimbledon.

Didn’t Nadal withdraw from their last hardcourt meeting in Indian Wells?

Nadal has struggled to beat Novak and Federer outside of the french for almost half a decade. That’s a fact.
Click to expand...
Recent form counts moving forward. But time will tell.

As for now past month just proved what we know..nadal is better on clay and federer better on grass.

Federers main grass court rival awaits.
 
James695

James695

Rookie
Pantera said:
Recent form counts moving forward. But time will tell.

As for now past month just proved what we know..nadal is better on clay and federer better on grass.

Federers main grass court rival awaits.
Click to expand...

But why are you so certain Federer can’t beat nadal outside of Wimbeldon.

If we ignore the french were Nadal will always boss Fed, Federer has won 9 of the last 10 sets they have played. Where is the struggle!?!

I’m not saying Federer will definitely beat Nadal if they play at the US open. I’d probably have Nadal as slight fav at flushing meadows and Federer at Melbourne (assuming Fed doesn’t suddenly decline due to age).

But to claim there is any evidence Federer can’t beat Nadal outside of Wimbledon is weird.
 
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Pantera

Banned
James695 said:
But why are you so certain Federer can’t beat nadal outside of Wimbeldon.

If we ignore the french were Nadal will always boss Fed, Federer has won 9 of the last 10 sets they have played. Where is the struggle!?!

I’m not saying Federer will definitely beat Nadal if they play at the US open. I’d probably have Nadal as slight fav at flushing meadows and Federer at Melbourne (assuming Fed doesn’t suddenly decline due to age).

But to claim there is any evidence Federer can’t beat Nadal outside of Wimbledon is weird.
Click to expand...
Im talking best of 5. I feel on hard court...certainly USO where it gets up high for Federer to deal for 3hrs plus with the ball spitting at his BH will be too much. AO is lower bouncing so im less certain there but it can get brutally hot in australia so i feel nadal holds an advantage there.

Its height of bounce that is critical now. And coming up nadal likely to only play canada and USO on hard which both high bouncing hemce why i favour Nadal.

Clearly somewhere like Shanghai Rafa will get his clock cleaned by Federer.
 
P

Pantera

Banned
8675309 said:
Nads also has less Wimbledon, USO, and AO titles than Fed. Oh yeah - and infinitely less ATP championships than Fed.
Click to expand...
Not quite. Since Nadal peaked and became a legal adult nadal has more USOs and infinitely more FOs and Masters
1000s.

Nadal does have multiple slams on multiple surfaces...i like that
 
James695

James695

Rookie
Pantera said:
Not quite. Since Nadal peaked and became a legal adult nadal has more USOs and infinitely more FOs and Masters
1000s.

Nadal does have multiple slams on multiple surfaces...i like that
Click to expand...

Since Cilic became a legal adult he has more
Slams than Sampras, Bjorg, Mac, Agassi, Lendi, Connors, Laver....the list goes on.

Cilic in GOAT discussion no?
 
Towser83

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Pantera said:
Need two Masters 1000s on grass. Coukd start with downgrading miami and upgrading queens. Maybe downgrade paris and upgrade halle.
Click to expand...

I had the idea that Halle and queens could take it in turns to host a masters the way Toronto and Montreal take it in turns. That way both tournaments would have equal status but you wouldnt be cramming in 2 masters into a very short space of time.

I think to do 2 would be hard because of how close clay season is and there are 3 clay masters
 
8

8675309

New User
Pantera said:
Not quite. Since Nadal peaked and became a legal adult nadal has more USOs and infinitely more FOs and Masters
1000s.

Nadal does have multiple slams on multiple surfaces...i like that
Click to expand...

Uh - that doesn’t refute my point at all. Your “Not quite” statement does’t make sense since Fed indeed does have more Wimbledon, USO, AO, and ATP titles than Nads.

Also, I think you need to look up what infinitely means, unless you’re saying Nadal wasn’t a legal adult until post 2009 when Fed won the FO (and has won multiple masters since then). I believe Nads turned 21 in 2007.
 
H

herronpaul

Rookie
Pantera said:
Nadal has the most Majors peak v peak v peak. Google it. Nadal has all the important numbers...but u havent answered the question? Where is your old profile? We have chatted before same topic lol.
Click to expand...

He doesn't have most peak for peak. Novak won 4 in a row. Fed did an absurd 10 in like 3 years..... Nadal hasn't even gotten to 4 slam finals in one year. Yes really FINALS.... not wins FINALS

More important peak for peak Nadal went 0-7, 0-7 vs his main rival
 
malbaker86

malbaker86

Hall of Fame
herronpaul said:
Wouldn't be worse than Nadal's 1-2 vs non atg, non anything/ mug Mueller at wimbeldon.

Nadal has already lost in his pet slam in straight sets to his main rival. There was a breadstick too no? Only Novak has never been defeated by his main rivals at his slam.... lol Rafa actually got striaght setted at FO LMAO
Click to expand...

Novak was straight setted by Fed at the AO
 
J

JackGates

Legend
Pantera said:
Back in what place...Nadal has more wimbledons than Federer has FOs....
Click to expand...
But Fed has more USOs than Rafa has AOs.
Fed also has more AOs than Rafa has USOs.

Also, that's why we admit RAfa is the clay goat, so nobody is denying that Rafa is better on clay than Fed is on grass, so who are you even talking too?
 
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