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Beerus
Guest
Replace 2008-2011 Federer with peak Federer. What happens?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
AO: 04 Federer vs 08 Djokovic = tossup
RG: Nadal still wins duh
WB: 04 Fred should edge 08 Doll
USO: Fed wins either way
AO: 05 Fred should edge 09 Ned, could conceivably lose though
RG: 05 Fred's a bit green on slow clay yet but should find a way to win over del Potro et al
WB: Fred still wins, duh
USO: 05 Fred wins
AO: Fred still wins
RG: Nadal still wins duh
WB: 06 Fred beats 10doll
USO: 06 Fred should beat 10doll, could be somewhat problematic but the BH was holding up well there
AO: 07 Federer vs 11 Djokovic = tossup (ok, Fed's actually better but let's be nice here)
RG: Fed has chances but Nadal still wins, sadly
WB: 07 Fred beats 11 Djokodal
USO: Fred should oust Djokodal albeit with difficulty
Result: 6 guaranteed slams, 5 likely, 2 possible. Let's say Federer wins 9-10, that's less than the 11 he won in 04-07 but still more than Djokodal combined in this hypothetical timeframe, hoho.
RG: Nadal still wins duh
WB: 04 Fred should edge 08 Doll
USO: Fed wins either way
AO: 05 Fred should edge 09 Ned, could conceivably lose though
RG: 05 Fred's a bit green on slow clay yet but should find a way to win over del Potro et al
WB: Fred still wins, duh
USO: 05 Fred wins
AO: Fred still wins
RG: Nadal still wins duh
WB: 06 Fred beats 10doll
USO: 06 Fred should beat 10doll, could be somewhat problematic but the BH was holding up well there
AO: 07 Federer vs 11 Djokovic = tossup (ok, Fed's actually better but let's be nice here)
RG: Fed has chances but Nadal still wins, sadly
WB: 07 Fred beats 11 Djokodal
USO: Fred should oust Djokodal albeit with difficulty
Result: 6 guaranteed slams, 5 likely, 2 possible. Let's say Federer wins 9-10, that's less than the 11 he won in 04-07 but still more than Djokodal combined in this hypothetical timeframe, hoho.
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
09 RG might well be in doubt if the butterfly effect see Fed as #1 seed, Nadal not play Soderling, and Fed have to beat Nadal in the final. I don’t think Nadal was so badly injured that he couldn’t win that.
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Beerus
Guest
It's my first thread on this forum.
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Deleted member 792641
Guest
Don't think 2006 USO Fed beats 2010 USO Nadal. Nadal was a huge matchup problem for Fed everywhere except grass when they first started meeting, and since I'm assuming that you aren't giving 2004-2007 Fed the knowledge that 2008-2011 Fed had, that matchup effect would heavily come in to play. 2010 USO was a very slow court, which works to Nadal's favour, and in addition 2010 USO Nadal was consistently serving 120+ and was hitting big basically the whole tournament. It's probably his best form in an HC slam to date. 04-07 Fed was losing to Nadal plenty on HC when Nadal didn't have a serve. Giving Nadal a good serve and upgraded offense shouldn't make it easier on Fed
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer won 1 more point than Nadal in 2009 AO final despite the fifth collapse, a very unclutch loss. 2010 USO was faster than that, 2006 USO Federer was better than that, 2010 USO Nadal was better than 09 AO too but not by much. Miami basically doesn't count for these comparisons given the sticky mugness of those courts.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Roger don’t want that smoke lol
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Deleted member 792641
Guest
Dubai 06?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
That matters now? Do you need a list of everyone Nadal lost to in 2010? Ljubicic, Roddick, Baghdatis... tells us?
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Deleted member 792641
Guest
did he have the USO 10 serve in any tournament besides USO 10? No. So you can't compare his other HC performances that year with USO 10. Nadal only dropped 1 set the whole USO. his draw wasn't difficult, but its not like Fed was invincible at the 06 USO. Dropped a set to #9 Roddick and a set to #5 Blake, and let's not even get started on how much of a limited player James Blake was
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
How many people did Fed lose to in 2006? Don't embarrass yourself too much bestie
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal didn't do anything Federer hadn't done or wouldn't do. Beat up a bunch of mugs, then a couple tiring players - he did beat them up well, good tennis there - and ousted an average and somewhat tiring Djokovic in four sets. Where's the catch? This "2010 USO serve" is really a mythical weapon. I know you're kinda probing here like I often do, so no offence.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
How many people did Fed lose to in 2006? Don't embarrass yourself too much bestie
So Federer losing few matches at peak actually works against him since every loss now has legendary significance whereas Nadal can lose to lesser tour players anytime and it doesn't matter since such losses are normal for him, huh? Brilliant reverse logic as your addolled mind enjoys.
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Deleted member 792641
Guest
To each their own, I guess. All I know is an 06 Federer vs 10 Nadal USO would've been an absolute barnburner. A shame we'll never get to see something like that. I feel like it'd be on the level of 07 and 08 Wimbledon
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
It would be a nice competitive match but I sure can't see Nadal beat Federer on a consistent BH day, since otherwise Fed is clearly superior in his peak/prime.
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Deleted member 792641
Guest
A Federer backhand vs. Nadal would probably not look as solid though, because Nadal is going to attack it wayyyy more than anyone else does, and also the massive RPMs on that bad boy. I agree that if Fed's backhand is on he'll beat Nadal most times off clay, but what Nadal does by consistently bullying his backhand with topspin moonshots hurts Fed mentally and physically. No way of telling if his backhand holds up as well as it did in 06 if he plays peak Nadal
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
The way you talk, Nadal should've routed Federer in AO 09 - the BH exposure frequency was appropriately high - except that's not what happened and Fed should have actually won. Peak Fed losing? Forget it
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Deleted member 792641
Guest
The way you talk, Nadal should've routed Federer in AO 09 - the BH exposure frequency was appropriately high - except that's not what happened and Fed should have actually won. Peak Fed losing? Forget it
okay, paint19.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
You're an old dog here despite your official account age, so you know you're comparing me to trollalot here, huh? Very funny for sure.
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Deleted member 792641
Guest
actually my first account was only made in March of this year, so i've heard of NadalALOT but I'm not aware of what his character is, and I also didn't know he was paint19. I just called you paint19 because you used the
emoji
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
He certainly wins fewer Slams than he did in actuality during 2004-2007, but I still think he comes away the best overall player of 2008-2011.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
actually my first account was only made in March of this year, so i've heard of NadalALOT but I'm not aware of what his character is, and I also didn't know he was paint19. I just called you paint19 because you used the
Basically a Nadal-stanning weirdo with colourful mannerisms giving him away such as this one. There's also Beckerserve (another dollfan weirdboy) but his writing style is different so you can tell. Both periodically get banned when they say something nasty and hop on to a new account, although I've not seen the serve guy for a while. ALOT was active on MTF for years, regularly changing his username - it's possible there if you're a premium (paying) user - but always kept 'alot' in the end, hence some have taken to calling him trollalot and that's where I picked it up. He got himself banned last year, deliberately I think. Now he's writing here occasionally, as you can see.
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Deleted member 792641
Guest
ah, okay. I'm not on MTF so I didn't know about that. I'm only on here and I browse r/tennis occasionally for news, though I don't have an account there. I've heard of Beckerserve as well from the "4>3, 2-1 open, bud" stuff, which I find pretty funny for some reason
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Deleted member 792641
Guest
If he has greater success against Nadal and Djokovic due to being at his peak, do you think he ever changes his racket size? Because if he doesn't see a need to then I don't think he makes the switch, which will end up hurting him in post-prime.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
He changed the racket right after his worst season when he was losing to everyone, not just Nadal and Djokovic. If something so drastic as that doesn’t happen, he might not have the switch. But assuming that annus horribilis carries over in this timeline, he probably still changes the racket, just far later.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Hm, I wouldn’t assume that.
Horribilis was a key player in the dark ages of 2005-2006, reaching the QFs in Indian Wells and Barcelona, and even winning Amersfoort and Bangkok, but in a strong era like 2008-11 it’s fair to say he’d be languishing in the Challengers and ITF M25s.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Ok
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Herald
Guest
2015 Fed in 2008:
Against Djokovic in Australia loses, but takes a set.
Loses to Rafa in straights in France, but wins more than 4 games.
Eeeks out the win against Rafa at Wimbers
Beats Murray in the finals
Slams: 2
2017 Fed in 2009:
Beats Rafa in an airtight 5 setter in Australia
Beats Soderling in a straight setter at RG
Waltzes through Roddick at Wimbledon
Beats Del Potro by focusing on the backhand crosscourt rallies and crucially not hitting nice feeds into his forehand.
Slams: 4 (CYGS)
2018 Fed in 2010:
Waltzes through Murray in Australia
Loses to Rafa in straights at RG
Loses to Rafa in 4 at Wimbers
Loses to Rafa in 4 at USO
Slams: 1
2019 Fed in 2011:
Loses to Novak in 4 in Australia
Loses to Novak in 4 in France
Loses to Novak in 4 in Wimbers semis
Loses to Rafa in 4 at USO
Slams: 0
Overall, wins 7 majors and a Calendar slam to boot. Very impressive given Rafa wins 6, and Novak only 3.
So the question of peak Federer is an interesting one because you picked a period where Nadal is just starting to mature off of clay, and Novak for the most part is still a headcase.
Against Djokovic in Australia loses, but takes a set.
Loses to Rafa in straights in France, but wins more than 4 games.
Eeeks out the win against Rafa at Wimbers
Beats Murray in the finals
Slams: 2
2017 Fed in 2009:
Beats Rafa in an airtight 5 setter in Australia
Beats Soderling in a straight setter at RG
Waltzes through Roddick at Wimbledon
Beats Del Potro by focusing on the backhand crosscourt rallies and crucially not hitting nice feeds into his forehand.
Slams: 4 (CYGS)
2018 Fed in 2010:
Waltzes through Murray in Australia
Loses to Rafa in straights at RG
Loses to Rafa in 4 at Wimbers
Loses to Rafa in 4 at USO
Slams: 1
2019 Fed in 2011:
Loses to Novak in 4 in Australia
Loses to Novak in 4 in France
Loses to Novak in 4 in Wimbers semis
Loses to Rafa in 4 at USO
Slams: 0
Overall, wins 7 majors and a Calendar slam to boot. Very impressive given Rafa wins 6, and Novak only 3.
So the question of peak Federer is an interesting one because you picked a period where Nadal is just starting to mature off of clay, and Novak for the most part is still a headcase.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Lmao
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Herald
Guest
Which would be a pity really. In this proposed timeline, we may never have seen the best of Federer's game.
NatF
Bionic Poster
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
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Beerus
Guest
NatF
Bionic Poster
Would watch this as a spin-off.
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