Afternoon practice Video
- Thread starter tlm
- Start date
johndagolfer
Professional
Nice a million times better. You are contacting the ball way more in front. Still need to stop muscling the ball so much, which I believe comes from bit using your legs enough.
Over all I am glad you finally made this change keep it up
Over all I am glad you finally made this change keep it up
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Thanks I've been working on driving through the ball more on the forehand. I switched to the 2 handed backhand a couple of years ago and I still use it more as a rally shot. Still working on learning to drive the backhand that will take some time.
C
Chadillac
Guest
More left side shoulder prep on the forehand, you also following through to far on a few shots (forehand is ending up on the left side throwing your body weight), probably because you back leg is coming around mid stroke.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Ya shoulder turn and keeping good balance are two things I need to improve.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Thanks Cheetah, it's funny I don't notice that much difference because I guess the change has come gradually. But if some of you guys think my forehand has changed for the better that's good news and will keep working on it.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Ya she is a solid 4.0 level player and plays on a lot of teams. I'm lucky to have a live in hitting partner. Some probably think my shots are pretty weak because of how well my wife can handle them.lol
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
You are hitting your FH's thru the court more than before with more offensive trajectory. You should be able to hit more winners rather than just forcing opponents to make an error. BH still needs some fundamental work. Andy Murray's videos show excellent upper and lower body positioning and movement on 2hbh.
Looks like you have joined the Microgel Radical team. Is that MP 98 or OS 107?
Looks like you have joined the Microgel Radical team. Is that MP 98 or OS 107?
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Hitting through the court more with lower trajectory is what I have been working on, still have a long way to go.
I just changed to the radical mp98 a couple of weeks ago. I started demoing 18x20 patterns and really like the added control, plus the tighter pattern helps me lower the trajectory. I really don't think I've lost much spin compared to a 16x19.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Nice hitting tlm, definitely a more penetrating ball. Have your grips always been this extreme?
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Actually I have went with more extreme grips in the last year, sometimes getting close to Hawaian on the forehand. For some reason I hit better with a very closed racket.
C
Chadillac
Guest
Your shots bounce high and penetrate. Your right side prepares deep, the left side just isnt following. The arm motion and strike point are great, you seem to feel the ball. I notice you brush up more on the decline etc. The left side is going to give you power, id convert that into spin and control instead of raw power.
Be careful serving with balls in your right pocket, you naturally twist that way on the motion and could hurt, baggy pockets. Always on the left side for me. I made that mistake once and had to laugh
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Yes I'm still missing out on some spin and power by arming to much.
T
TCF
Guest
deleted
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tlm
G.O.A.T.
Thanks she is a pretty good player. She plays a lot of mixed doubles and faces guys that have better serves than I do. So my serve is no big deal to her. I like practicing my serve against a returner, gives you a better idea of how well your serving.
Fxanimator1
Hall of Fame
I think your forehand has indeed made good progress, since the first video's you posted many moons ago. Also, it's cool that your wife hits with you.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Thanks its getting better but still a lot of improvement can be made.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
This video runs fast. Click Vimeo, click full screen, view single frames around the labels by holding down the SHIFT KEY and using the ARROW KEYS. Negative times indicate time before impact in milliseconds (1/1000 sec)
1) There is minimal knee bend, minimal leg thrust. Maybe left foot not off the ground.
Impact frame labels & notes:
2) Shoulder Tilt. tan line. There is not much shoulder tilt. Compare at impact. A line shows the spine for reference. You do not tilt your shoulder girdle as the high level server. Compare the spine to shoulder tilt. Look in the mirror and tilt your shoulder girdle. Compare to high level servers at impact.
3) Upper Arm. tan line. Looks as if it goes forward and down. Compare to good practice.
4) Overall tilts to body and hitting arm angles. Compare the alignment of the upper arms to the left legs. Your hitting arm and body tilt more.
NOTE - to make these comparisons much more accurately the same camera angles should be used and high speed video.
5) Racket angle. red line. Your racket angle from this camera view, looks vertical and your arm looks too low. High level serve has hitting arm to right and racket to left from the behind view. Compare.
6) Your racket is too blurry and you need high speed video to see if you are doing ISR but it would be the side-arm type ISR technique not like the high level serve.
General impression is that you have a technique as if you held out the arm to the side with some swing, some ISR with a forearm to racket angle and a forceful body turn where the racket was was located well out from the body's rotation axis. Speed equals the radius X rotation speed. And your radius out from body axis to racket is large. But that is a simpler technique than the high level service technique. The high level technique has some body rotation at impact but it is smaller and in the wrong direction to add speed to ISR which is very fast. The overall motion is not a high level serving technique as seen in ATP videos. Going to checkpoints probably won't work. Study the ISR serve.
For your ground strokes, you also seem to avoid the stretch shorten cycle and rotated your body very forcefully.
"Separation" involves a stretching of trunk muscles and the amount is estimated by looking at how far the shoulders rotate back from the hips. Go through your ground strokes and draw lines between your two hips and your two shoulders. Do the same for high level ground strokes. How much separation do you get in comparison to high level ground strokes? Djokovic uses as much separation as any. He is unusually flexible and may not be a good players to imitate. In other words, study separation and compare to yours.
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ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Interesting points you make here Chas. Your right not much stretch shorten cycle going on with my shots.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Thanks I enjoy just having rally practice, I like to hit for an hour straight working on grooving my swings. For years I've been told that I have showed no change on my forehand from guys on this site, so it is good that many are telling me they see some improvement.
I know I have been trying to hit the ball better and hopefully I'm making some gains, I have to say that improvement does not come easy in this game.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Thank you. Do you mean the distance sideways to the ball? Or are you talking about hitting out in front more? I still have a problem of getting to close to the ball sideways which does not give me enough swinging room. I have found that even a half a step more space to the side gives me much better swing.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
The leg action is really missing in both groundstrokes and serve. You have a strong arm and a fluid swing so you can compensate for the lack of legs, but you'd get a bit more spin into the serve if you would bend your legs and move upward into the ball. A lot of your forehands start with a closed base and you swing your leg around. It makes it look like a good shoulder turn but its a just a very closed stance. You want to be neutral or slightly open and turn your body against the less closed pelvis creating a wind up to unwind into the ball.
But I'm not an accredited coach and you can take anything I have to say with a very large grain of salt. But if I was your, I'd be working on my setup to the ball and leg action. There are some things that should be posted on every tennis board:
"Bend your knees"
"Eyes on the contact point"
"Loose grip"
"Turn your shoulders"
"Low to high"
These fundamentals don't really ever change. So the two simple things I see in your practice session is the knee bending and the shoulder turn.
But I'm not an accredited coach and you can take anything I have to say with a very large grain of salt. But if I was your, I'd be working on my setup to the ball and leg action. There are some things that should be posted on every tennis board:
"Bend your knees"
"Eyes on the contact point"
"Loose grip"
"Turn your shoulders"
"Low to high"
These fundamentals don't really ever change. So the two simple things I see in your practice session is the knee bending and the shoulder turn.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Good points once in a while I use my legs on groundstrokes and it definitely helps same with the serve. I really need to incorporate the legs, and I like your 5 tips they are so very true.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
the starting position of his left hand definitely has a gulbis quality to it...The good news is you already have the skill part covered, simply moving your left hand with your right (like handcuffed) will explain this more than i can do in a book
definitely muuuuch better hitting (driving through the court vs. excessive topspin) from your earlier vids.
at least one drill tip i have, especially since you have such a consistent training partner... try positioning yourself with one or both feet inside the baseline... it will teach you to prep earlier (and smaller), which will set you up for when you're playing harder hitting players (or in general players that don't give you as much time to prep).
tlm
G.O.A.T.
This sounds like a good idea. I like playing deep and using a lot of time to get swing going. I will have to force myself to play up and take ball earlier, because I can get rushed to often against harder hitters.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
That's fine, I did change my settings to get mail.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Yes I am, I have tried to keep left hand on racket longer but l feel like I am late so I go back to quick release of left hand.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
At my age I may have no choice but to stay at my level. But I am always trying to get better and think that I can improve. I love the challenge of trying to get better.
I can do ok at 4.0 but I play against a few 4.5 players that I would like to do better against.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I have been working on fitness more. I want to take power players advice which is get in good shape so that I can improve footwork and stay active on my feet.
I'm hoping that with that I can prep earlier which would help my game.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I'm no coach, so consider the source of these comments.
Your strokes look good... I think a bit more shoulder turn could smooth out the strokes a bit. I say this, because it's fresh on my mind. When changing to the 2hbh, I briefly (ok ... longer than briefly) forgot to have enough shoulder turn ... too many other things in the learning curve (not to mention timing). Then I moved back to the frickin Flip project ... and once again, the "enough shoulder turn" took a backseat. As soon as I took a bit more shoulder turn, pace was easier to hit, therefore everything smoothed out a bit. I naturally have low tension in my swings, but it didn't matter if I was starting from too short a shoulder turn ... I had to try and make it up with the arms.The actual coaches here can for sure give better guidelines for shoulder turn goals ... say per stance, but here is my take:
- the shoulder turn is relative to your stance and hips. You hit most neutral stance FHs in your video, but you did have one open stance FH. IMO, that open stance FH shoulder turn was good... and the neutral stance FHs needed more. A shoulder turn facing the back fence in an open stance FH is good shoulder turn. A shoulder turn facing the back fence (wall ... you are indoors) with a neutral stance can be no shoulder turn at all ... i.e. in line with hip. IMO, your open stance FH looked smoother because of the shoulder turn. It certainly works out that way for me. I try to hit mainly semi-open FHs for that reason ... the shoulder turn takes care of itself ... i.e. more automatic.
In the first pic, neutral stance, shoulder turn is actually less than the hip. You can check the video, I might of got it a bit late. But in the second pic, open stance, that same shoulder line to the back wall represents good shoulder turn. You can go a bit more (feel the tension) on the shots where you want to go max. That's how I look at it ... I have base full shoulder turn shot ... and then I add more shoulder turn tension to go for max.
You have to watch a lot of pro FH video to find a neutral stance FH, but Nishikori came through for us, plus was helpful with the shoulder stripes on his shirt:
Check out your neutral stance shoulder line to Nishikori's. Back shoulder pointing past straight back. Also note it's like hitting a 2hbh ... looking over his lead shoulder. And then, his open stance shoulder line is pointing to the back fence. Good enough for Kei ... good enough for us I think.
Backhand:
I think the same thing here ... a bit more shoulder turn where you are looking over your right shoulder will be helpful.
That guy in the middle has lost a step (ok ... lots of steps), but I did finally learn the 2hbh shoulder turn lesson. But then I look at the pic on the right, and I think ... TLM and ByeBye still have some work to do.
Probably wouldn't hurt to have a flexible back. I will say this ... the number one thing that made the 2hbh "fun" for me was the day I had good enough timing with the ball machine to actually take the full shoulder turn. I really wanted someone to see what was happening ... in case it was just a one day occurence.Relaxed shoulders and arms with enough shoulder turn ... those were not optional in my learning curve. BTW ... have you ever tried starting in your 2hbh backswing with your racquet up like Nishikori above? You go straight back to the slot. Obviously it works for you ... but you might find the racquet drop adds a nice relaxed start to the swing. Since my pic above (looking the video that came from), I had a good preset with racquet angled up like Nishikori, but I was getting my hands behind me. That's why you just have to look at video of yourself ... you don't even know you are doing some things. An example, I saw I was hitting almost every 2hbh with a very closed stance. I have no idea where that came from ... probably my 1hbh habit. Easy change though ... set the hands closer to where Nishikori is above, and just go to a more neutral stance for my standard go to stance. The pros do hit more closed stance 2hbhs than I thought ... but I like pretty neutral like your stance.
EDIT: on the 2hbh... look at 00:35. A bit of butt cap towards the ball will create some lag ... rather than the racquet starting it's swing early.
EDIT2: just saw your March video. Outstanding improvement. That's fast.
Cheers ... enjoy your tennis.
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tlm
G.O.A.T.
I'm no coach, so consider the source of these comments.
The actual coaches here can for sure give better guidelines for shoulder turn goals ... say per stance, but here is my take:
- the shoulder turn is relative to your stance and hips. You hit most neutral stance FHs in your video, but you did have one open stance FH. IMO, that open stance FH shoulder turn was good... and the neutral stance FHs needed more. A shoulder turn facing the back fence in an open stance FH is good shoulder turn. A shoulder turn facing the back fence (wall ... you are indoors) with a neutral stance can be no shoulder turn at all ... i.e. in line with hip. IMO, your open stance FH looked smoother because of the shoulder turn. It certainly works out that way for me. I try to hit mainly semi-open FHs for that reason ... the shoulder turn takes care of itself ... i.e. more automatic.
In the first pic, neutral stance, shoulder turn is actually less than the hip. You can check the video, I might of got it a bit late. But in the second pic, open stance, that same shoulder line to the back wall represents good shoulder turn. You can go a bit more (feel the tension) on the shots where you want to go max. That's how I look at it ... I have base full shoulder turn shot ... and then I add more shoulder turn tension to go for max.
You have to watch a lot of pro FH video to find a neutral stance FH, but Nishikori came through for us, plus was helpful with the shoulder stripes on his shirt:
Check out your neutral stance shoulder line to Nishikori's. Back shoulder pointing past straight back. Also note it's like hitting a 2hbh ... looking over his lead shoulder. And then, his open stance shoulder line is pointing to the back fence. Good enough for Kei ... good enough for us I think.
Backhand:
I think the same thing here ... a bit more shoulder turn where you are looking over your right shoulder will be helpful.
That guy in the middle has lost a step (ok ... lots of steps), but I did finally learn the 2hbh shoulder turn lesson. But then I look at the pic on the right, and I think ... TLM and ByeBye still have some work to do.
Relaxed shoulders and arms with enough shoulder turn ... those were not optional in my learning curve. BTW ... have you ever tried starting in your 2hbh backswing with your racquet up like Nishikori above? You go straight back to the slot. Obviously it works for you ... but you might find the racquet drop adds a nice relaxed start to the swing. Since my pic above (looking the video that came from), I had a good preset with racquet angled up like Nishikori, but I was getting my hands behind me. That's why you just have to look at video of yourself ... you don't even know you are doing some things. An example, I saw I was hitting almost every 2hbh with a very closed stance. I have no idea where that came from ... probably my 1hbh habit. Easy change though ... set the hands closer to where Nishikori is above, and just go to a more neutral stance for my standard go to stance. The pros do hit more closed stance 2hbhs than I thought ... but I like pretty neutral like your stance.
EDIT: on the 2hbh... look at 00:35. A bit of butt cap towards the ball will create some lag ... rather than the racquet starting it's swing early.
EDIT2: just saw your March video. Outstanding improvement. That's fast.
Cheers ... enjoy your tennis.
Wow that's a lot of good information. I will say I like hitting forehand better out of open stance. Now if I can get better shoulder turn with the open stance.
I do hit the 2 hander better with a more closed stance. When I make an extra effort to close more it definitely helps. It's going to take some time to get that ingrained.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Good stuff, looks much better. I guess even the most stubborn people can be convinced to change their opinions
Ya I've been trying to change but I am just a slow learner.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Just got back from a practice session with a solid hitting partner. I was working on prepping quicker and getting more shoulder turn, plus trying to use the legs more. Even if I could do 2 out of the 3 I hit better, if I managed to do all 3 I definitely could see the benefit. But this is not going to be easy to make these adjustments become automatic.
Tennisanity
Legend
Would easily beat LeeD and double bagel Sureshs
Todd Hicks
Rookie
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I have tried using a loop with the racket up to start my swing, but I ended up being late to often so I gave up on it.
