An experiment - switching to Babolat

[danix]

I'm a 3.5ish player, who can play solid 4.0 on a good day. The better my opponent, the better I play, generally.

I gave up trying to find a replacement for my Volkl Tour 10 midplus (which I still have) and switched to the Head Flexpoint Prestige midplus. Nice feel, better power compared to what I had been using (Tour 10MP gen 2) but it has two critical flaws. Well, three.

1) Dense string pattern makes hitting a good topspin lob much more difficult.
2) Hard to get any pop on offcenter shots.
3) Pain in the butt to string 18x20

After wondering for a few years whether I should give up on the purity of a "player's frame" and switch to the Pure Drive, which everyone around me seems to be using, I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of Pure Drive Roddick.

I demoed the PD with cortex, and liked it. It's a lot swifter at the net, and in a tight situation I can flick the ball and actually get it back with pace, compared to just getting it over the net with the Head.

I would love to go pump some iron, play 2-3 more times a week, and make myself improve with the Head. But, I'm going to give the Babolat a shot instead. Stay tuned

 

[Voltron]

So you're switching to a PD? Shame on you.

 

[LarougeNY]

I agree, try some control tweeners like the RDS 003, the mfil/AG 300, fxp radical or instinct

 

[danix]

Yonex lacks the pop of the Babolat. Mfil 300 was too light, as was the Mcenroe version. Instinct is too light too. Thanks for the suggestions though.

 

[300Gkid]

yea, i think he thought u got the pure drive, instead of the Roddick, anyway, other racquets around that weight range are the DNX 9, RDS 001 MP, FXP Radical Tour and others

 

[danix]

OK, so here's an update. As a reminder, I've been using the Head Flexpoint Prestige midplus, and considering the Babolat instead

I committed to the experiment, and ended up going with the Roddick version, because I got a good deal on a pair of used ones here on TW. I also thought the extra 1/2 ounce would ease the transition, since I've always used a heavier frame.

I've now played around 4 sets of singles and 2 sets of doubles with the PDR, and done 1-2 clinics/group lessons.

The good:
- serving is definitely a strong point of the racquet. Pace and spin are more easily produced, and I believe I am serving more consistently.
- much better response on off-center or last minute shots. The ball goes places it never would have before.
- More pace on volleys.
- Much easier to hit topspin, especially on the forehand side and even more so on the forehand lob.

The bad:
- I can rarely hit a hard, penetrating forehand like I could with the Head.
- I don't feel the same precision on the slice backhand, when hitting dropshots, or slice forehands.
- Occasionally I completely miss the ball. It feels like this frame is an inch shorter than the Head (its not).
- My shoulder hurts and I have a bit of tennis elbow. Could it be the difference in weight/swingweight, or the stiffness of the frame?
- I often find it hard to control the pace on the forehand and overhit, unless I tell myself to hit extra topspin.
- I feel like the racquet rewards me for using an abbreviated swing, versus my normal driving, long strokes.

I'm going to stick with it a little longer, but if I could figure out how to get more topspin from my head (lower tension, thinner strings?) I could see going back to the Head. I'm also going to experiment a bit with strings and tensions on the PDR to see if that helps the negatives above.

I guess the conclusion so far is that it ain't no magic bullet.

 

[pNoyr3D]

I am also trying to switch to a babolat today i'm shipping my racquets to trade for an AeroPro Control. I am currently trying out the PDR std. it's a nice racquet but, I also seem to have some of your listing on "the bad" section. Yes, it will take a while, I have only used it for around 3-4 days. I believe with these babolat racquets Top Spin in the key since they are so powerful. You'll probably get it sooner or later. I will probably have to take some time with the AeroPro Control too, since it's heavier and stiffer than my old M-Fil 300.

 

[Midlife crisis]

My son switched to a PDR+ several months ago from a TiS5CZ and he loved it. He had immediate improvements in ballspeed and spin (he needs neither of these) and other than an adjustment period in volleying, he seemed to have no problems adjusting. His TiS5CZ was weighted up to 338 grams so the heft was already pretty similar. I hit with his racquet a few times and liked the feel.

So, I just got another PDR+ to play with. If it wasn't going to work out for me, I was going to give it to him. I like to play at around 360 grams weight, 380 swingweight, so I put on a heat shrink sleeve to get the grip up to about a 4 7/8, and added about 12 grams at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions.

I restrung both my normal racquet (Prince Thunder RIP, 115 sq. in., 363 grams, 382 swingweight) with SPPP, the Prince at 67 lbs. and the PDR at 46 lbs. This produces an equivalent stringbed response.

Considering that the Prince is really a super-stiff granny stick, the PDR+ has a lot more pop, too much for my liking. It is almost impossible to stab at a fast, low volley and keep the ball in play, though bombing serves is cool. In this configuration, the PDR+ is not a very good control racquet

I'll be trying it again with a lower powered string (Kirschbaum P2), and may be changing the weighting around a little bit to cut down the power, but I don't think that's going to be easy playing with the racquet at this weight and swingweight. It has much more controllable power at its stock weight.

 

[sureshs]

- My shoulder hurts and I have a bit of tennis elbow. Could it be the difference in weight/swingweight, or the stiffness of the frame?

Stiffness. It is how the PD is, even with Cortex. I demoed the Cortex version once, but my arm started hurting within half an hour.

 

[mileslong]

I am also trying to switch to a babolat today i'm shipping my racquets to trade for an AeroPro Control.

i will tell you that your dunlops have better feel than the APC. that racket feels like a board, puts a lot of spin on the ball but i never really liked the feel at all. i got one from europe before they came out in the states and really wanted to love it but never did. hope you like it however...

 

[p0w3r]

Yup...i think I'm gonna go down that road too.

I played great tennis with my Yonex RDS001 Mid towards the end of the last summer. It felt like i can hit every single angle possible and really pound the ball. After winter now, im having difficulty getting enough pace off it and just not consistant enough with it.

I have switched to the Head LM Instinct Tour XL and i find its been treating me well. My shots are a lot more powerful and i can get those shots that i would have missed previously with the RDS. My servers are a lot more powerful due to the extra .5 inch. The only thing i miss is the great angles i could get with the yonex...but i guess you win some loose some and with the instinct, i feel i win more then i lossed.

 

[Ross K]

danix,

scroll down 'racquets' section until you get to 'This is the Babolat Alliance calling!' Here is where you should post questions relating to Babs...

 

[danix]

I think I'm done. I played a set with it today, loved the serving and the foregiveness on volleys, but my arm and shoulder were bothering me. Switched back to my Head for the next 2 sets, no more pain (and no more good off-pace shots!) but my rocket forehand returned too.

I think I'm going to experiment with 18ga or thinner on the Head, and drop the tension to 53-54lbs, to see if that helps with volleying and topspin.
Otherwise, I'll be looking for another stick.

I guess my conclusion is that the Babolat has pros and cons, but it's wreaking havok on my arm. Interestingly, my doubles partner just switched to the same frame, and today was sporting a tennis elbow band...

 

[clarky]

I used to hit with a Pure Drive Roddick, did not like it much at all, hard to control, too much power and just abit awkward I felt.

I then had the LM Prestige MP, nice racquet, but I now have the Flexpoint Radical Tour MP, give it a demo if you have not already, its a very nice racquet.

Best of the 3 I thought.

 

[jayserinos99]

Danix, just curious what string and tension did you have in your PDR?

 

[fuzz nation]

If you're getting into some demos, you might want to test drive an O3 Hybrid Tour. A buddy was trying one a couple weeks back, so I grabbed it when he put it down and it really got my attention. Quite solid for power, spin, feel, control, etc. and the listed SW of 337 seems a good bit high to me - while it's solid, it maneuvers just fine and I was really confident with it all over the court.

I've been in that catch-22 of having a racquet that I had to hold back on to land my shots and when I looked around, some of the more flexible frames I sampled just knocked me out; I could suddenly swing away! Keep looking and don't rule anything out until you've taken it for a hit. Don't be afraid to experiment on your Head; you may be close to your best set-up and a bad sampling of string is a lot less pricey than a new stick.

 

[danix]

I'm unsure of string and tension - one is Gamma Pro 16, I'm guessing around 57lbs. The other is a poly/syn hybrid, probably around 58 lbs.

Shoulder still hurts a bit today, but the elbow pain is gone (this after using the Head for 2 sets).

I've hit with the 03 Hybrid briefly, I don't think it did much for me. I wonder if I should try a slightly lighter Head with a more open pattern, or just cut the crap and go back to my Volkl Tour 10MP.

 

[fgs]

even if it sports a 18x20 stringbed, you might want to give the nblade 98 a shot.

 

[10isjugador]

Are you gonna sell those PDR's anytime soon? What grip size if you are? JW

 

[danix]

I probably will, yes. They are 4 3/8.

 

[Fossika]

I have the PD Cortex, I find big forehands easy to produce, you just have to really get into your shots, you can't be lazy, and make sure you use plenty of topspin. You could also try putting some decent strings on it, I got Isospeed Professional on it yesterday and it was just beautiful, huge power, nice spin and the ball was going in consistently. However, giving the other issues you are experiencing (pain) the PD might not be for you.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Fossika

I'm hitting with the same racquet strung with Isospeed control,it plays just as you described. I also use Dunlop M-fil 300s and I didn't have any problems changing to the Pure Drive, very nice racquet

 

[yonexred2113]

Yonex lacks the pop of the Babolat. Mfil 300 was too light, as was the Mcenroe version. Instinct is too light too. Thanks for the suggestions though.

your right....true players dont need pop so we use yonex

 

[danix]

I found I could control the pace but my arm pain cannot be ignored, so I'm moving on.

 

[xtennisloverx]

how much for both?

 

[Bottle Rocket]

Fuzz Nation makes a good point...

The Hybrid Tour, though at a glance looks like a completely different stick, is fairly similar to the PDR in their playing characteristics. It is extremely comfortable and arm-friendly, even with a full job of Luxilon. I wrote a comparison of the two to try and get a few more people to consider it->

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=114133&highlight=pure+drive+versus+hybrid+tour

 

[danix]

I'm going to try a different string before I give up.
I hit with 3 frames the other night:
Volkl Tour10 MP - my oldie but goodie. Amazing pace and depth on groundstrokes, incredible feel, but I can't volley to save my life with this stick.

Head Prestige FP MP - it's a little lighter, a little more forgiving. Much better at net, but not as good on the groundstrokes as the Volkl.

Then I figured what the heck, give the Bab another try.
For the first time perhaps ever, I was able to keep the ball in play consistently, ripping forehands and even backhands.
It serves and volleys much better than the others, and the spin potential is incredible. The feel is not even close to the other frames, but I didn't expect it to be.

I think the secret to the PDR is a smooth stroke. If you hit calmly and completely through the ball, and follow through, letting the frame work, it feels and works great. On those shots where you're a little late, and where the other two frames have the mass to drive the ball, the PDR does not, so you end up hitting the ball late and the frame transmits that shock to your arm.

 

[danix]

And I'm out again. The arm pain subsided, especially after I restrung with Alpha 16 at 58lbs, but I am back to having control problems. Played 2 sets with the APD, then switched back to the Prestige. Instantly my ability to slice off both wings returned, forehands were hard and precise, and my serve was surprisingly fast. I declare the Babolat experiment over for me. I am tempted to string higher (like 65lbs) and see what happens, but not at the expense of my elbow or shoulder.

 

[AndrewD]

danix,

Only my opinion but: you hit better slice with the Prestige because you find it easier to 'feel' the ball. As you don't get the feel you require I would imagine, when you attempt a slice shot with the PDR, you're actually driving it with underspin, rather than merely slicing it (its a different feel but produces a heavier shot). Nothing wrong with that at all and, if you were to look at Ken Roswall's backhand slice (the best in the history of tennis) you'd see that what made his shot so damaging is that he drove the ball. So, his shot stayed low but had a lot of weight and pace on it. Regardless, as that isn't what you're trying to do, you lose control.

I could be wrong, but it sounded like 'feel' might be the issue on that stroke, especially if you're using a thicker gauge.

As to your shoulder: I thought you were using the PDR, not the APD. If it was the PDR then I would guess that you're struggling with the swingweight. Too high a swingweight will lead to you hitting shots late, trying to muscle the ball and putting extra stress on the shoulder/arm/wrist.

 

[fuzz nation]

Man, it almost sounds like you just made it safely through a minefield every time you put down the Babolats. I've tried to love a couple of frames that didn't suit me and it was a little bit of a process before issuing a no-go and looking elsewhere. Just be honest with yourself about what those frames are doing to help and to hinder you - I consider tennis elbow to be the biggest of 'red flags'.

If you haven't tried the Flexpoint Radical Tour, it may be exactly what need since it's more of a spin-maker than your Prestige, yet it has some heft to it. Good to hear that you got a go with the Prince, too. Knowledge is power, right? You may also want to include the Fischer M Speed 98 in the list of demos to consider - when I tried it from TW, it seemed to do everything really well.

I've always used heavy racquets, too and I've only experienced arm and shoulder pain when I've tried to take up with lighter ones. You sound like you're used to swinging a racquet that's over 12 oz and getting comfort and controlled strokes from frames with at least moderate flex. More trials in that range would probably be smart before going lighter or too stiff.

 

[danix]

I probably should try the Radical, yes. Fischer is another brand I've wanted to demo but are impossible to find.

I've played with an 11+ oz mid to midplus frame most of my playing years.
The Volkl Tour 10MP (gen 1) is the best I've tried, but it doesn't help my net game. I'm going to give the Prestige a little more time and experiment with strings, but I'll keep my eyes open as well.

 

[Sir Andrew of Roddick]

if you're not strong physically then i wouldnt go near the pure drive roddick

i use the PDR+

 

[bee]

I've just been using the AeroPro Drive Cortex Standard length with ALU Power Rought 16 mains and VS Natural gut crosses, both at 55#. I went from LM Prestige Mid strung with full natural gut at 50#.

My summary is: not nearly as harsh as I thought it would be. Getting better spin on groundstrokes and serves are surprisingly good. In fact, serves are the biggest pleasant surprise with this racquet. Out wide to the ad court with kick is working nicely, as some others have noted.

Think I'll crank it up to 60# next time. The cortex may actually work for making it easier on the arm. My problem was I was getting tired of hitting so many groundsrokes long, so I wanted to try more of a spin producing setup. It's going pretty well so far.

 

[Commando Tennis Shorts]

So you're switching to a PD? Shame on you.

such hatred for the pure drive. . .that's the shame. . .great power, great spin, easy to play with----what's not to love? and don't say it's too powerful because anybody's who's played with it for an extended period of time knows that's not really true