TennisNinja
Hall of Fame
All marketing is a scam to you then isn't it Peter. Because the kids always ask their parents for the latest toys, games, etc.
Athletic DNA Sponsorship Thread
- Thread starter rafabull
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TennisCoachFLA
Banned
So are the cute little girls selling Girl Scout cookies each year outside the grocery store. My kids beg me for those too
Parenthood is full of psychological scams everyday. It's really not evil, just life.
First of all, I have kids, been around many other kids, not one begs for girl scout cookies when we see the girls at the store.....the adults are asked by the scouts, and say yes or no as they walk past. Also, girl scout cookies (or the latest toys TennisNinja) don't ask for your parents credit card numbers, don't require obligated purchases, and don't have compliant after complaint when people try to cancel the service. That was the worst analogy of all time.
ADNA is a scam, pure and simple. Its not a sponsorship and they make it tough to cancel on purpose. Now please stop embarrassing yourself and learn some basics about life. If you have reached your age and don't know enough basic science and math to tell a double helix from an infinity sign, or how to protect yourself from marketing schemes that have been around in various forms for over 40 years, it is time to pay attention to things a little better.
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TennisNinja
Hall of Fame
I'm sorry, maybe your kids just hate girl scout cookies. I don't know 1 person who has ever had a problem with ADNA, and trust me, I know a ton of people who have or used to have it.
Above from Merriam-Webster. Your concept of a scam is incorrect.
I'd say his concept is accurate. He believes they are being deceptive with the 'sponsorships'. Now, whether or not that is a misperception on his part is another story.
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
The commitment works both ways so it should be difficult to cancel. This isn't like a mortgage that you can just up and walk away from your financial obligation (don't get me started on that topic). Seriously, if someone likes the clothes but not the plan, than pay full retail and buy it online. Sounds fair to me.
ADNA is merely mitigating risk by asking for a commitment and applying discounts based on a commitment and results. What you refer to as a scam I would label as a subscription plan. It's a sound business strategy for a startup for many reasons. I'm curious...why do you consider it a scam? Because it's not free?
Walk around any junior tournament and it's clear that the plan is being executed with success. Evan is a great guy, absolutely loves tennis, and spends a lot of time with the kids at tournaments. And you have to admit, the ADNA bus is way cool.
If you think it's a scam, don't buy it.
P.S. And in case you were wondering, my kids don't wear ADNA.
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
Its a scam. The kids are told they are sponsored which taps into their ego. Parents, many of which do not know much about it or who want to placate their kids sign up. Monthly fee...so far, not great, pretty skeevy, but not yet a scam.
Now try to cancel. Oh my, we didn't get your letter to cancel...it didn't go to the right address....it was not certified....since it arrived a day later than the cut off date there is a $30 fee....oh you don't agree with the fee, we charge another month, now you owe us even more. How did my account incur all these sub charges??
In many cases parents have had to battle it out for months with their credit card companies.
The scam is not the apparel, its the system in place to make the cancellation process very difficult and incur more finance charges, etc. This and the fact it is not a sponsorship in any real way is filthy.
By the way, a certain chain of $10 fitness clubs uses the same exact methods to make cancellation very tricky so more charges are incurred while you think you have cancelled correctly.
Ask yourself why I have heard many complaints about this apparel company vs all the others? Ask yourself why one health club chain has 200 complaints on the internet about billing while another same size chain has maybe 10?
I deal with lots of parents, kids, coaches.....this one company stands out for the numerous issues I personally hear.
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Tar Heel Tennis
Professional
Would this be Evan Jones by any chance?
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
Evan Zeder
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
Keep bashing the "scam" as good or bad - PR is PR. I know many kids that just love their ADNA. Last 14s national in San Antonio had 4 boys in the semi's all wearing ADNA.
TCF - you have a clothing deal with somebody else?
TCF - you have a clothing deal with somebody else?
When they approach a kid, any kid regardless of talent and age at an academy or tournament site, and ask if he wants to be "sponsored" - what do people think the kid's reaction's gonna be?
And when the parents get the contract and realize they would be the ones doing the "sponsoring" with 3 stars or less, they would have to do the splaining to a 12-year old of what a contract is and why it wouldn't make sense right?
When a sponsorship is not really a sponsorship, what do you call it? Maybe not a scam, but sure seems like deceptive marketing to this old fart.
And when the parents get the contract and realize they would be the ones doing the "sponsoring" with 3 stars or less, they would have to do the splaining to a 12-year old of what a contract is and why it wouldn't make sense right?
When a sponsorship is not really a sponsorship, what do you call it? Maybe not a scam, but sure seems like deceptive marketing to this old fart.
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
Call it "late 4 dinner" if you want. It's working.
it seems as though you are being hard on a poster that has contributed much useful info for some time now....as for you, you have a short memory, we see how you have belittled players for "inflated" rankings, talked about how a kid would not do well at the college level because he/she did not play outside the section, boast about a Zoo perdiction that nobady cared about and was not a perdiction that you had to step out on a limb for ,all this coming from a parent> "tennis parent" ? . manic behavior...take a look in the mirror
Keep bashing the "scam" as good or bad - PR is PR. I know many kids that just love their ADNA. Last 14s national in San Antonio had 4 boys in the semi's all wearing ADNA.
TCF - you have a clothing deal with somebody else?
It is bigger with the younger kids up to the 14's.
I don't see the older kids ( 16's or 18's ) wearing it as much.
The question is will the younger kids keep wearing it as they get older,
or will they emulate the older kids and not wear it as much?
I am betting on the second.
A dad of a 14 year old who is a ranked 2 star and "sponsored"
was complaining that the company had lost its coolness....
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
What does a dad of a 14 year old know about coolness? That's hilarious. We are creatures of habit and the trend will continue because ADNA is working it. Nike doesn't have to work it nor will they feel it.
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
Kevin Anderson and Robert Kendrick are DNA boys.
More scientific findings from tennis5. Look at their website, they have many 16-18's on their "Select Team"
Speaking of "Select", I could not find the word sponsorship on their website anywhere. Maybe I'm missing something and you could show it to us.
I am stating what I SEE at 14 and 16 year old tournaments.
My info is what other parents are talking about at the national
and local tournaments. They are saying their boys are sponsored.
So let us know what you observe at the tourneys with your
kids... and report back - ok.
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Never had that conversation at a tournament and likely never will. I'm certainly not going to try to have it either. Sorry. Have better things to focus on during a tournament than who is wearing what......
Jen10isFan
New User
Amazing how you keep bashing this company - year after year. My son has been a member for a couple of years and I can assure you that not only do they send the products that you are promised - every pack includes numerous bonus items - extra shirts and shorts, hoodie, custom shirt, travel bags, etc. etc. - that makes the deal even better.
I also have several friends that found they reeived more clothes than they needed and all they had to do was email to the company or Evan to cancel - no questions asked!
If you also bother to learn something about their program, you will find that you do not have to sign up for their annual program. They offer a simple starter pack that you can get at the same discount.
As for financial informaiton - are you kidding me??? What does Head, Wilson, Prince and the other company ask for when you buy one of their packs?
Also, when look around at this forum and you will find that kids are claiming their are sponsored whenever they qualify for a discounted pack from again Head, Wilson, etc. Why? Because they have to be a certain caliber - ranking - to be offered the pack and as far as the kids go, they call that being sponsored.
Personally I love these guys. Not every kid gets to travel with a coach. When was the last time you heard of an apparel company taking the time to sit down with your kid following a bad loss at a super national to give encouragement and motivation - thank you Evan. You will probably find a way to call that a scam too - I for one found it to be priceless.
Jen10isFan
New User
Amazing how you keep bashing this company - year after year.
My son has been a member for a couple of years and I can assure you that not only do they send the products that you are promised - every pack includes numerous bonus items - extra shirts and shorts, hoodie, custom shirt, travel bags, etc. etc. - that makes the deal even better.
I also have several friends that found they reeived more clothes than they needed and all they had to do was email to the company or Evan to cancel - no questions asked!
If you also bother to learn something about their program, you will find that you do not have to sign up for their annual program. They offer a simple starter pack that you can get at the same discount.
As for financial informaiton - are you kidding me??? What does Head, Wilson, Prince and the other company ask for when you buy one of their packs?
Also, when look around at this forum and you will find that kids are claiming their are sponsored whenever they qualify for a discounted pack from again Head, Wilson, etc. Why? Because they have to be a certain caliber - ranking - to be offered the pack and as far as the kids go, they call that being sponsored.
Personally I love these guys. Not every kid gets to travel with a coach. When was the last time you heard of an apparel company taking the time to sit down with your kid following a bad loss at a super national to give encouragement and motivation - thank you Evan. You will probably find a way to call that a scam too - I for one found it to be priceless.
Finally - If you can find a way to stop companies to exploit the "Nag Factor" let me know. My daughter can not stop nagging me about buying her Lulu Lemon - talk about expensive apparel.
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
What a shame you posted this. I had loved your information on Stefan Kozlov and how you went to bat for him when BB tried to imply he was lying about his age. I had thought of you as a good poster. Now you sound like another gullible tennis parent of a lower level player who got hooked by these guys.
But you have no credibility when you mention Head, Wilson, Prince. TOTALLY DIFFERENT model than this company. Don't lump them in with these creeps. I know way more coaches than you do, way more tennis parents, way more tennis kids at all levels. The amount of complaints vs these guys is HUGE. The complaints of the other companies zero. Their goal is the continual program, not the starter packs and you know that.
I have a file from one parent who spent 6 MONTHS, sent 10 letters, 15 phone calls, dozens of emails to cancel a deal. It was cancelled only after the mom hired an attorney. You tell me about ONE family that went through that with Head, Wilson, or Prince....just ONE.
Like I said....mob bosses. Their supporters are rapid and nasty. It is a SCAM. They DO pick out certain kids and families to take care of in regions, its part of the trick to recruit the other kids who get taken advantage of.
Myself and other coaches in our group have used our personal influence to notify 100s of parents about the scam. And we will continue to do so.
Thanks to posts like yours I will now quadruple my efforts to notify the tennis community about these creeps. Thanks for motivating me and firing me up. I had backed off a little on them....now I will go hog wild against them. I don't like scammers who take advantage of tennis kids and their parents. And now I will go back on the offensive, but much, much harder.
I won't even read any more posts on this subject. Its not worth my time as those who are fooled are fooled. Wasted energy to try to bother with them. Better use of my time to keep as many people away from these guys as possible. We have plenty of lawyers whose kids take lessons down here, I think I will talk to a few about a possible class action suit.
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chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
Do the other clothing and equipment companies take care of certain kids? Yes they do. That is a fact. I get it now....it's only a "trick" if ADNA does it. And the class action lawsuit? Hilarious - Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs!
I just love all the PR that's being generated for Athletic DNA here (http://www.athleticdna.com). Isn't AthleticDNA a big sponsor for tennisrecruiting.net? All part of the scam I reckon.
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
'This message has been hidden because this member is on your ignore list'.
What a great invention, the nonsensical posts of 5 posters on this thread just vanished!!
What a great invention, the nonsensical posts of 5 posters on this thread just vanished!!
Jen10isFan
New User
WOW! Amazing!
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
ADNA formed a partnership with TR in May of 2011
http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=1205
http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=1205
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
Edge-uh-macate me...what happened?
slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
Well, someone said the stuff is cool.
Tennis Coach FLA said it was not.
I said it was ugly, worse than Nike and adidas.
Then things got ugly.
TCFLA has had some bad experiences with ADNA. Scam-baggery.
Others have not. Better Business Bureau?
You never really know. REading everything there is to read here probably does not scratch the surface.
I personally stand by the ugliness of the ADNA line(s), and I generally make fun of the 'culture' of jr tennis.
Anyway, chalkflewup, there were hurt feelings and threats...
lawyers mentioned...
allegations alligatored, crocodiled and gila monstered.
Ignore buttons pressed, to no avail.
General keyboard warrior tendencies and fanboyism.
This is an emotional issue during a slam, because people take their junior apparel packages pretty seriously. And we're in the midst of a slam, so, just sayin', it's pretty amazing and epic and epic and amazing (I really just wanted to hammer those words into the ground, that's all).
Tennis Coach FLA said it was not.
I said it was ugly, worse than Nike and adidas.
Then things got ugly.
TCFLA has had some bad experiences with ADNA. Scam-baggery.
Others have not. Better Business Bureau?
You never really know. REading everything there is to read here probably does not scratch the surface.
I personally stand by the ugliness of the ADNA line(s), and I generally make fun of the 'culture' of jr tennis.
Anyway, chalkflewup, there were hurt feelings and threats...
lawyers mentioned...
allegations alligatored, crocodiled and gila monstered.
Ignore buttons pressed, to no avail.
General keyboard warrior tendencies and fanboyism.
This is an emotional issue during a slam, because people take their junior apparel packages pretty seriously. And we're in the midst of a slam, so, just sayin', it's pretty amazing and epic and epic and amazing (I really just wanted to hammer those words into the ground, that's all).
lol.......
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
I challenge any supporter to give us full details of exactly what is paid and exactly what was received. Let us price the goods and make our own decision. Give us the SPECIFIC details of your 'sponsorship' and lets let the posters decide if it is a good deal.
This is the summary one parent gave me, if your deal is better than this boy's deal, let us know the specifics:
$150 down, $40 month, 40% discount on merchandise.
At the end of the year they had put in $630 in fixed costs and paid another $458 for their 60% portion of the merchandise they took.
So they paid a total of $1088 over 1 year....for tennis clothes....for a 15 year old. When the mother did her best to price comparable items individually from alternate sources, she came up with costs around $650. This included any starter pack or bonus items that they got during the year. So her 1 year involvement cost her over $400 extra AND she says they ended up with way more apparel than their son ever needed. But were trying to make the discounts pay for the membership. It then took her a few attempts to cancel.
Please post your actual numbers and lets let impartial posters decide if it is a good deal.
This is not even talking about the issues many parents have had cancelling the deals. Just a pure discussion about whether the "sponsorship" is a good deal or a bad deal. Another dad showed me a hat they considered a $16 hat and we found the same exact hat for $7 on another site, with the logo of another company, same size, same quality.
My contention, and that of the parents and coaches I know, is that it is not only a horrible deal when you add up the costs, but there is a system in place to make cancelling difficult. I will leave it at that and hopefully some folks will give us the specifics of their deals with total honestly.
But I doubt it will happen. No one wants to think they got taken. They want to think their tennis kid is "sponsored". It is what it is, buyer beware.....but it is not a sponsorship, its not a good deal, and all the complaints about cancelling is very suspicious. If folks honestly priced the items they got, including the 'free' items, they would find they are paying more than they should be paying. Yes, what a marvelous sponsorship.
Sorry, Evan being a nice guy and talking up the boys at the tournies and putting his arm around some boys that lose does not change things at all. Its a rip off.
This is the summary one parent gave me, if your deal is better than this boy's deal, let us know the specifics:
$150 down, $40 month, 40% discount on merchandise.
At the end of the year they had put in $630 in fixed costs and paid another $458 for their 60% portion of the merchandise they took.
So they paid a total of $1088 over 1 year....for tennis clothes....for a 15 year old. When the mother did her best to price comparable items individually from alternate sources, she came up with costs around $650. This included any starter pack or bonus items that they got during the year. So her 1 year involvement cost her over $400 extra AND she says they ended up with way more apparel than their son ever needed. But were trying to make the discounts pay for the membership. It then took her a few attempts to cancel.
Please post your actual numbers and lets let impartial posters decide if it is a good deal.
This is not even talking about the issues many parents have had cancelling the deals. Just a pure discussion about whether the "sponsorship" is a good deal or a bad deal. Another dad showed me a hat they considered a $16 hat and we found the same exact hat for $7 on another site, with the logo of another company, same size, same quality.
My contention, and that of the parents and coaches I know, is that it is not only a horrible deal when you add up the costs, but there is a system in place to make cancelling difficult. I will leave it at that and hopefully some folks will give us the specifics of their deals with total honestly.
But I doubt it will happen. No one wants to think they got taken. They want to think their tennis kid is "sponsored". It is what it is, buyer beware.....but it is not a sponsorship, its not a good deal, and all the complaints about cancelling is very suspicious. If folks honestly priced the items they got, including the 'free' items, they would find they are paying more than they should be paying. Yes, what a marvelous sponsorship.
Sorry, Evan being a nice guy and talking up the boys at the tournies and putting his arm around some boys that lose does not change things at all. Its a rip off.
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2-star starter+standard was about $550/year for my kid with a 60-day out. I asked the boy at those prices, who's sponsoring whom then promptly had him decline the offer.
Incidentally, went to a major chain to pick up some gear for the kid to play in Vegas this weekend. I noticed that for the bulk of the standard pack (4 match shirts, 9 practice shirts, and 3 shorts), the equivalent cost of the beautiful Under Armour "Heat Gear" line would have been about $400. This is basically the same as what a 2-star would pay but without the extra goodies like socks and wristbands.
Love it or hate it, guess the business model is no more "scam" than what uncle Nick is doing with his 30% "discount" to the IMG wannabe kids...
Incidentally, went to a major chain to pick up some gear for the kid to play in Vegas this weekend. I noticed that for the bulk of the standard pack (4 match shirts, 9 practice shirts, and 3 shorts), the equivalent cost of the beautiful Under Armour "Heat Gear" line would have been about $400. This is basically the same as what a 2-star would pay but without the extra goodies like socks and wristbands.
Love it or hate it, guess the business model is no more "scam" than what uncle Nick is doing with his 30% "discount" to the IMG wannabe kids...
Number1Coach
Banned
For a bunch of college educated people you sure have trouble with what we call in America "business".
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
You said you won't read any more posts on the subject as it's wasted energy yet you won't let it go. You refer to them as creeps, scammers, etc... and then you say Evan is a nice guy. Which one is it? And now you want to "quadruple your efforts" and "go hog wild against them" and talk to your lawyer buddies about a "class action lawsuit." It appears to me that your emotions got in the way.
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
That's great! And I'm sure it's well deserved. Every penny helps.
Thank you Chalk... and that was very well put! And my kid is fully sponsored by his equipment company too. So, I can attest to the fact that ADNA functions in the same way as other, much larger companies (and often even with more personal touch). And for the record- Evan and team couldn't be nicer, more professional or more legitimate.
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
The newly appointed CEO came from Swoosh country which bodes well for the company. I expect them to continue on an upward path.
slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
I think so, too, but not directly upward. Too many variables in their reputation and too many variables in the market.
I'm feeling their path will be kind of a double spiral with two parallel lines, kind of like a double helix.
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
So if you listen to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" and watch The Wizard of Oz with the volume turned all the way down, you can see the Athletic DNA bus cruising down the Yellow Brick Road when "Money" comes on.
slice bh compliment
G.O.A.T.
^Hahah, thanks, glad you got a laugh. I did, too.
Hope all is well in aggieland.
Best,
slice bc
Hope all is well in aggieland.
Best,
slice bc