Babolat POP tennis sensor

[Solo Lee]

Is anyone tempted to buy this?
I am, but want to get people's opinion on this new product.
So if anyone tries it out. Please let me know what you think

 

[scotus]

There is a sticky in the racquet subforum.

 

[Dan W]

Since the Playtest is over and the thread in the racquet sub-forum has gone quiet, I thought I'd attempt to resurrect this thread, which seems to be in the "more correct" forum. That thread was useful to see what Beta-testers were experiencing before it was launched, but now that it's officially in production, I'd like to get new feedback.

I just purchased one through Tennis Warehouse and have started using it. I'd like to compare notes with others who are actively using the sensor. Any one out there care to participate?

 

[Dan W]

OK, so I wrote up my first experience. Sorry for the long post. Please share your feedback as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm most interested in accuracy. I understand that are some limitations with this sensor being on the wrist and not fixed on the racket, but I accept that given the price-point.

When I received the sensor, I downloaded the Babolat Pop app, paired it with my Android phone (Droid Turbo 2, Android 5.1.1) and updated the firmware which was quick and easy.

My first session was a one hour training session. I turned the device on after a brief warm-up and hit. It recorded a 51 minute session which seemed right on. It synced the session with my phone within a couple of minutes of initiating the sync.

The training session was a mixture of just about everything. Lots of volleys. A serving session. Multiple rally points.

Here are the overall summaries and totals for this one session.
PIQ Score: 1922
Speed: 175 (13 mph)
Spin: 340 (10%)
Style: 1406 (5/10)
Playtime: 51 minutes
Shots: 298
132 volleys, 93 forehands, 22 backhands, 36 serves, and 15 smashes
89 of 93 forehands were flat. 3 were slice. 1 was topspin.
8/22 backhands were flat. 14/22 were sice. 0/22 were topspin.
Best PIQ: 7650. Best Shot: 87 mph. Best Rally: 11 shots.

The Speed number must include all of the volleys. I hit a lot of volley's during this session which is the only reasonable way I can explain why the racket speed average was so low at 13 mph. I would think you should omit using volleys in the racket speed calculation, because it's always going to be something close to zero. If it's true that volleys are used in the speed calculation and PIQ, this would unfairly penalize serve-and-volley players and doubles players, where volleying is a big part of the match.

I don't understand the spin number. 10% of what? It certainly felt like I hit with more spin, but again, if it's taking into account all of the volleys, maybe that number makes more sense, but spin really should only count on ground strokes, in my opinion.

Style. Ha. I thought this would be my lowest number, but I guess I'm already half-way to Federer

I absolutely hit more volleys than any other shot, so I believe that it was more frequent than any other. I felt like I hit more than 22 backhands, but I'll have to play closer attention. The serve number is low, and the smash number is high, so I'm concluding that it confused some serves as smashes.

The breakdown of my forehand is odd. Almost all of my forehands were hit with topspin, but I guess it has a much higher threshold for what it uses to determine spin than what I can actually hit. That's my guess, anyway. For speed, it said 31 mph average, 45 mph maximum racket speed.

Backhand seems a bit more accurate as far as breakdown of the type of shot. Definitely I hit more slice than topspin, but I definitely hit a few topspin backhands that just must have not been "spinny" enough to get registered. For racket speed: 33 mph average, 45 mph max.

The serve count was low, as I previously mentioned. The speed breakdown was 52 mph average, 87 mph maximum racket speed. I have had my actual serve speed measured before with an on-court Playsight system where in a recent match it said my average serve ball speed was 77 mph with a max ball speed of 95 mph. I will have to do some more correlation to racket speed and serve speed through more sessions. I wasn't serving as hard during this Pop recorded training session as I was during the Playsight match.

Here's my wishlist after just one session:

• I would like to be able to view all of the data for each shot. I assume this data is logged by the sensor and is available, so I'd love to be able to view all the data and not just the averages. For example, I'd love to see the data for what it determined was my best single PIQ score and when I hit that shot.
• The sensor should have a calibration mode, where you tell it you are going to serve, it records your serve, and it then uses that data to monitor you during play to know when you're really serving. You should be able to train it on your forehands (top spin and slice), backhands (top spin and slice), smashes, and volleys as well so it learns what your shots "look" like when calculating your information.
• It does not look like it separates volley's into forehand and backhand. That should be easy for it to do.
• Only include forehand and backhand shots in calculating spin and speed. Give serves a separate spin/speed recording. Don't include volleys or smashes in any spin/speed number as they seem to throw off the numbers.

My initial summary after only one session would be:

• The "PIQ Score" seems rather arbitrary to me, so I don't know if it's anything I'll find useful, and I think it's impossible to boil down your tennis game to a single number, but for comparative purposes I guess it makes it about as simple as possible. Perhaps if I get involved in challenges it would make more sense.
• I find the shot type distribution data to be interesting and "mostly" accurate, but it seems like the algorithms to determine serves vs. smashes needs work.
• I want to keep trying this and try to get a better guage on how consistent it is, and how my shot type affects my scores.
• I'll be anticipating further firmware updates as I assume Babolat is going to need some more time dialing things in and improving accuracy.
• So far, it's been fun to experiment.

 

[mhkeuns]

Learning how the challenge function works before I send out challenges to other members. One thing I noticed was how it doesn't count all strokes (*it seems) but only count the ones the device thinks are qualifying strokes. I tried the mid difficulty forehands, and ended up almost too tired to continue with the backhands. I believe I had to hit 40 quality shots, and I probably hit around 200... Gotta practice more before I can challenge anyone..., it seems.

 

[mhkeuns]

OK, so I wrote up my first experience. Sorry for the long post. Please share your feedback as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm most interested in accuracy. I understand that are some limitations with this sensor being on the wrist and not fixed on the racket, but I accept that given the price-point.

When I received the sensor, I downloaded the Babolat Pop app, paired it with my Android phone (Droid Turbo 2, Android 5.1.1) and updated the firmware which was quick and easy.

My first session was a one hour training session. I turned the device on after a brief warm-up and hit. It recorded a 51 minute session which seemed right on. It synced the session with my phone within a couple of minutes of initiating the sync.

The training session was a mixture of just about everything. Lots of volleys. A serving session. Multiple rally points.

Here are the overall summaries and totals for this one session.
PIQ Score: 1922
Speed: 175 (13 mph)
Spin: 340 (10%)
Style: 1406 (5/10)
Playtime: 51 minutes
Shots: 298
132 volleys, 93 forehands, 22 backhands, 36 serves, and 15 smashes
89 of 93 forehands were flat. 3 were slice. 1 was topspin.
8/22 backhands were flat. 14/22 were sice. 0/22 were topspin.
Best PIQ: 7650. Best Shot: 87 mph. Best Rally: 11 shots.

The Speed number must include all of the volleys. I hit a lot of volley's during this session which is the only reasonable way I can explain why the racket speed average was so low at 13 mph. I would think you should omit using volleys in the racket speed calculation, because it's always going to be something close to zero. If it's true that volleys are used in the speed calculation and PIQ, this would unfairly penalize serve-and-volley players and doubles players, where volleying is a big part of the match.

I don't understand the spin number. 10% of what? It certainly felt like I hit with more spin, but again, if it's taking into account all of the volleys, maybe that number makes more sense, but spin really should only count on ground strokes, in my opinion.

Style. Ha. I thought this would be my lowest number, but I guess I'm already half-way to Federer

I absolutely hit more volleys than any other shot, so I believe that it was more frequent than any other. I felt like I hit more than 22 backhands, but I'll have to play closer attention. The serve number is low, and the smash number is high, so I'm concluding that it confused some serves as smashes.

The breakdown of my forehand is odd. Almost all of my forehands were hit with topspin, but I guess it has a much higher threshold for what it uses to determine spin than what I can actually hit. That's my guess, anyway. For speed, it said 31 mph average, 45 mph maximum racket speed.

Backhand seems a bit more accurate as far as breakdown of the type of shot. Definitely I hit more slice than topspin, but I definitely hit a few topspin backhands that just must have not been "spinny" enough to get registered. For racket speed: 33 mph average, 45 mph max.

The serve count was low, as I previously mentioned. The speed breakdown was 52 mph average, 87 mph maximum racket speed. I have had my actual serve speed measured before with an on-court Playsight system where in a recent match it said my average serve ball speed was 77 mph with a max ball speed of 95 mph. I will have to do some more correlation to racket speed and serve speed through more sessions. I wasn't serving as hard during this Pop recorded training session as I was during the Playsight match.

Here's my wishlist after just one session:

• I would like to be able to view all of the data for each shot. I assume this data is logged by the sensor and is available, so I'd love to be able to view all the data and not just the averages. For example, I'd love to see the data for what it determined was my best single PIQ score and when I hit that shot.
• The sensor should have a calibration mode, where you tell it you are going to serve, it records your serve, and it then uses that data to monitor you during play to know when you're really serving. You should be able to train it on your forehands (top spin and slice), backhands (top spin and slice), smashes, and volleys as well so it learns what your shots "look" like when calculating your information.
• It does not look like it separates volley's into forehand and backhand. That should be easy for it to do.
• Only include forehand and backhand shots in calculating spin and speed. Give serves a separate spin/speed recording. Don't include volleys or smashes in any spin/speed number as they seem to throw off the numbers.

My initial summary after only one session would be:

• The "PIQ Score" seems rather arbitrary to me, so I don't know if it's anything I'll find useful, and I think it's impossible to boil down your tennis game to a single number, but for comparative purposes I guess it makes it about as simple as possible. Perhaps if I get involved in challenges it would make more sense.
• I find the shot type distribution data to be interesting and "mostly" accurate, but it seems like the algorithms to determine serves vs. smashes needs work.
• I want to keep trying this and try to get a better guage on how consistent it is, and how my shot type affects my scores.
• I'll be anticipating further firmware updates as I assume Babolat is going to need some more time dialing things in and improving accuracy.
• So far, it's been fun to experiment.

I think the fun factor makes the users hit just a few extra balls, try more variety and be more aware of where their games stand... May not be a teaching tool, but it is fun to see the results.

 

[EG10s]

I've tried the Zepp, but didn't like how the holder wrapped on the butt of the racquet. It bothered me. I liked how the pop would fit like a wristband. There seems to be quite a bit of drawback... The Zepp provided a lot more information, solid hits vs off-center hits, and in general seemed much more accurate on the types of swing (forehand, backhand, serves, etc.). I agree with DanW above, it would be nice if the POP could be "calibrated" to know what kind of swing/shot.. It seems to be good with identifying my forehand.. but maybe I have bad form, but it seems to be counting my backhands as volleys.. At the end of a session.. the POP registers a lot of forehands, a lot of volleys, a few backhands, and a few serves.. I am pretty sure the orientation is correct.. I put on my right wrist, setting as a right-hander, the pop positioned in a "watch" position. When I first used it, it seemed like it was fairly accurate, I positioned the sensor slightly to the inside of my wrist, rather than direction on the top/'watch-position', which reading elsewhere, it was stated that this was the correct position.

 

[Dan W]

Learning how the challenge function works before I send out challenges to other members. One thing I noticed was how it doesn't count all strokes (*it seems) but only count the ones the device thinks are qualifying strokes. I tried the mid difficulty forehands, and ended up almost too tired to continue with the backhands. I believe I had to hit 40 quality shots, and I probably hit around 200... Gotta practice more before I can challenge anyone..., it seems.

That seems counter intuitive to me if it's a challenge feature. I would have thought it would just take your first 40 shots, good and bad, as the basis for the challenge. If it has some threshold you need to cross, it's not really a level challenge field. I think Babolat needs to explain more of the details on how the various features actually work. There seems to be too much mystery about how the algorithm's work. Maybe they are being quiet early on while they get enough data to dial in their software and push out updates, but more info is better than less in my opinion. I bought my wife a POP so maybe I'll try a challenge with her this weekend and see what happens.

 

[Dan W]

OK, so I had a second session this Sunday. My wife and I played for around 45 minutes after 15 minutes of warm-up. I had the sensor off during warm-ups and turned it on before we played. I logged it as an Open Session since we didn't play sets, we just played games, alternating serves for every game. I hit easier than normal as my shoulder has been bothering me lately.

So, session 2:
41 minutes of play time.
184 shots
PIQ Score: 2525
Best PIQ: 6111
Best Shot: 71 mph
Best Rally: 5 shots
63 Forehands (57 flat, 1 slice, 5 topspin, 33 mph avg, 50 mph max)
27 Backhands (10 flat, 14 slice, 3 topspin, 35 mph avg, 51 mph max)
46 Serves (44mph avg, 71 mph max)
1 Smash
47 Volleys

So here's my analysis based on my recollection:

Again, I hit (or at least tried to hit) way more topspin forehands than 5, but I guess I still haven't exceeded whatever threshold is set to count them.
Backhands might be close. I did hit more slice than topspin. It's nice that it did actually determine I hit a few topspins, unlike last time
Serve count is probably close.
Volley count is way too high. I probably truly volleyed less than 10 times in reality, so it's counting something else.

What I really am most curious about is how it treats those times between points where you are kicking up balls with your feet and "dribbling" the ball with your racket to get it up. And what about those times where I send the ball back over the net to my opponent between games when she is going to serve? It must count those as shots, so maybe those are the volleys? Does it register anything when I throw the ball over the net with my arm?

These would be easy enough to test at some point. Design an experiment where I do 20 of these things in a row, download the session, and determine what it thought happened. If I wasn't paying through the nose for court time, I'd probably do this for an hour to test more thoroughly. Maybe some of you warm climate players can find an outdoor court and run some experiments for those of us descending into winter?

I hope Babolat opens up with how some of these scenario's are treated by the sensor. It would be really a bummer if the "between the point" racket moves throw off the other numbers, but there must be a fine line with determining what's a real shot and what's not.

Anyone else with experiences to share? The more we test this thing, the better we will probably get at gleaning useful info out of this.

 

[mhkeuns]

Funny thing about this device is that, though I have a big forehand with pretty heavy top spin, it let's me know that my backhand is technically more sound. Most of my forehands are counted as flat shots. I guess I don't have the high enough follow through. However, it counts the various strokes on my backhand to almost perfection. I guess the device has an easier time calculating my backhands because of better preparation and the follow through.

 

[thebigz]

just got mine yesterday！playing a doubles match with it tonight

 

[Dan W]

I've had a couple more sessions since I last posted. I'll keep these more brief rather than detail out everything.

Session 3:
1) Still over-counting volley's. It seemed like it was at the expense of backhands.

Session 4:
1) Same volley issue, again appearing to count many of my actual backhands as volleys. I predominantly slice back-hands but I have decent follow-through, so I just think the sensor algorithms are still lacking in this regard.

General:
1) I don't understand how it calculates the "shots per minute" stat. It's obviously not taking # of shots and dividing by session time or it would be much much lower. If it's only counting time active during points, I wonder how it determines the rate.
2) My firmware in the POP is not updating properly. It shows there is an update, it downloads it, it installs it, and the sensor setting screen on my phone shows the new firmware version, but the next time I use the POP a few days later, the firmware is always back at the older version and I need to update it again, only to see it roll back the next time. This has happened at least the last three times I've used it.
3) My third session was not recorded in my overall averages. It only shows that I have three sessions being used for my overall average, even though there are four distinct qualified sessions that I can view individually.

There doesn't seem to be any good support forum to ask these questions direct to Babolat or PIQ. It sure would be nice to know if anyone is working on these bugs.

 

[Babolat Official]

OK, so I wrote up my first experience. Sorry for the long post. Please share your feedback as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm most interested in accuracy. I understand that are some limitations with this sensor being on the wrist and not fixed on the racket, but I accept that given the price-point.

When I received the sensor, I downloaded the Babolat Pop app, paired it with my Android phone (Droid Turbo 2, Android 5.1.1) and updated the firmware which was quick and easy.

My first session was a one hour training session. I turned the device on after a brief warm-up and hit. It recorded a 51 minute session which seemed right on. It synced the session with my phone within a couple of minutes of initiating the sync.

The training session was a mixture of just about everything. Lots of volleys. A serving session. Multiple rally points.

Here are the overall summaries and totals for this one session.
PIQ Score: 1922
Speed: 175 (13 mph)
Spin: 340 (10%)
Style: 1406 (5/10)
Playtime: 51 minutes
Shots: 298
132 volleys, 93 forehands, 22 backhands, 36 serves, and 15 smashes
89 of 93 forehands were flat. 3 were slice. 1 was topspin.
8/22 backhands were flat. 14/22 were sice. 0/22 were topspin.
Best PIQ: 7650. Best Shot: 87 mph. Best Rally: 11 shots.

The Speed number must include all of the volleys. I hit a lot of volley's during this session which is the only reasonable way I can explain why the racket speed average was so low at 13 mph. I would think you should omit using volleys in the racket speed calculation, because it's always going to be something close to zero. If it's true that volleys are used in the speed calculation and PIQ, this would unfairly penalize serve-and-volley players and doubles players, where volleying is a big part of the match.

I don't understand the spin number. 10% of what? It certainly felt like I hit with more spin, but again, if it's taking into account all of the volleys, maybe that number makes more sense, but spin really should only count on ground strokes, in my opinion.

Style. Ha. I thought this would be my lowest number, but I guess I'm already half-way to Federer

I absolutely hit more volleys than any other shot, so I believe that it was more frequent than any other. I felt like I hit more than 22 backhands, but I'll have to play closer attention. The serve number is low, and the smash number is high, so I'm concluding that it confused some serves as smashes.

The breakdown of my forehand is odd. Almost all of my forehands were hit with topspin, but I guess it has a much higher threshold for what it uses to determine spin than what I can actually hit. That's my guess, anyway. For speed, it said 31 mph average, 45 mph maximum racket speed.

Backhand seems a bit more accurate as far as breakdown of the type of shot. Definitely I hit more slice than topspin, but I definitely hit a few topspin backhands that just must have not been "spinny" enough to get registered. For racket speed: 33 mph average, 45 mph max.

The serve count was low, as I previously mentioned. The speed breakdown was 52 mph average, 87 mph maximum racket speed. I have had my actual serve speed measured before with an on-court Playsight system where in a recent match it said my average serve ball speed was 77 mph with a max ball speed of 95 mph. I will have to do some more correlation to racket speed and serve speed through more sessions. I wasn't serving as hard during this Pop recorded training session as I was during the Playsight match.

Here's my wishlist after just one session:

• I would like to be able to view all of the data for each shot. I assume this data is logged by the sensor and is available, so I'd love to be able to view all the data and not just the averages. For example, I'd love to see the data for what it determined was my best single PIQ score and when I hit that shot.
• The sensor should have a calibration mode, where you tell it you are going to serve, it records your serve, and it then uses that data to monitor you during play to know when you're really serving. You should be able to train it on your forehands (top spin and slice), backhands (top spin and slice), smashes, and volleys as well so it learns what your shots "look" like when calculating your information.
• It does not look like it separates volley's into forehand and backhand. That should be easy for it to do.
• Only include forehand and backhand shots in calculating spin and speed. Give serves a separate spin/speed recording. Don't include volleys or smashes in any spin/speed number as they seem to throw off the numbers.

My initial summary after only one session would be:

• The "PIQ Score" seems rather arbitrary to me, so I don't know if it's anything I'll find useful, and I think it's impossible to boil down your tennis game to a single number, but for comparative purposes I guess it makes it about as simple as possible. Perhaps if I get involved in challenges it would make more sense.
• I find the shot type distribution data to be interesting and "mostly" accurate, but it seems like the algorithms to determine serves vs. smashes needs work.
• I want to keep trying this and try to get a better guage on how consistent it is, and how my shot type affects my scores.
• I'll be anticipating further firmware updates as I assume Babolat is going to need some more time dialing things in and improving accuracy.
• So far, it's been fun to experiment.

Thanks for your feedback. I will be sharing this information with our development team. I'll get back to you with any details as soon as I have them.

Also, when you are referring to the average speed, are you referring to the average speed given in the "PIQScore" section of the app which calculates the average of the last 6 sessions?

Learning how the challenge function works before I send out challenges to other members. One thing I noticed was how it doesn't count all strokes (*it seems) but only count the ones the device thinks are qualifying strokes. I tried the mid difficulty forehands, and ended up almost too tired to continue with the backhands. I believe I had to hit 40 quality shots, and I probably hit around 200... Gotta practice more before I can challenge anyone..., it seems.

That's unusual. Were you hitting against a wall? A ball machine? Something that's important to note is that there has to be a natural pause between shots when using the challenge feature. When I say pause, I mean as if you are waiting for your opponent to hit the ball back.

Also, were you within Bluetooth range throughout the whole backhand challenge?

I've tried the Zepp, but didn't like how the holder wrapped on the butt of the racquet. It bothered me. I liked how the pop would fit like a wristband. There seems to be quite a bit of drawback... The Zepp provided a lot more information, solid hits vs off-center hits, and in general seemed much more accurate on the types of swing (forehand, backhand, serves, etc.). I agree with DanW above, it would be nice if the POP could be "calibrated" to know what kind of swing/shot.. It seems to be good with identifying my forehand.. but maybe I have bad form, but it seems to be counting my backhands as volleys.. At the end of a session.. the POP registers a lot of forehands, a lot of volleys, a few backhands, and a few serves.. I am pretty sure the orientation is correct.. I put on my right wrist, setting as a right-hander, the pop positioned in a "watch" position. When I first used it, it seemed like it was fairly accurate, I positioned the sensor slightly to the inside of my wrist, rather than direction on the top/'watch-position', which reading elsewhere, it was stated that this was the correct position.

The correct position for the POP is wearing it like a wristwatch. Having the sensor slightly to the inside of the wrist is not the most correct orientation. To be clear, under which orientation did you find the POP to be more accurate?



Thanks so much for all of the feedback thus far. I am here to help with any questions, so feel free to tag me in posts.

 

[Babolat Official]

I've had a couple more sessions since I last posted. I'll keep these more brief rather than detail out everything.

Session 3:
1) Still over-counting volley's. It seemed like it was at the expense of backhands.

Session 4:
1) Same volley issue, again appearing to count many of my actual backhands as volleys. I predominantly slice back-hands but I have decent follow-through, so I just think the sensor algorithms are still lacking in this regard.

General:
1) I don't understand how it calculates the "shots per minute" stat. It's obviously not taking # of shots and dividing by session time or it would be much much lower. If it's only counting time active during points, I wonder how it determines the rate.
2) My firmware in the POP is not updating properly. It shows there is an update, it downloads it, it installs it, and the sensor setting screen on my phone shows the new firmware version, but the next time I use the POP a few days later, the firmware is always back at the older version and I need to update it again, only to see it roll back the next time. This has happened at least the last three times I've used it.
3) My third session was not recorded in my overall averages. It only shows that I have three sessions being used for my overall average, even though there are four distinct qualified sessions that I can view individually.

There doesn't seem to be any good support forum to ask these questions direct to Babolat or PIQ. It sure would be nice to know if anyone is working on these bugs.

Those are rather odd problems you seem to be having with the firmware as well as the missed session. Can you possibly send a report via the app detailing your situation? To do so, go to settings and from there, click on "Send report." This will help expedite the process for our development team to identify problems and create solutions.

 

[mhkeuns]

Those are rather odd problems you seem to be having with the firmware as well as the missed session. Can you possibly send a report via the app detailing your situation? To do so, go to settings and from there, click on "Send report." This will help expedite the process for our development team to identify problems and create solutions.

I was actually hitting against a wall. I see why it was not registering correctly.

 

[Dan W]

Thanks for your feedback. I will be sharing this information with our development team. I'll get back to you with any details as soon as I have them.

Also, when you are referring to the average speed, are you referring to the average speed given in the "PIQScore" section of the app which calculates the average of the last 6 sessions?



That's unusual. Were you hitting against a wall? A ball machine? Something that's important to note is that there has to be a natural pause between shots when using the challenge feature. When I say pause, I mean as if you are waiting for your opponent to hit the ball back.

Also, were you within Bluetooth range throughout the whole backhand challenge?



The correct position for the POP is wearing it like a wristwatch. Having the sensor slightly to the inside of the wrist is not the most correct orientation. To be clear, under which orientation did you find the POP to be more accurate?



Thanks so much for all of the feedback thus far. I am here to help with any questions, so feel free to tag me in posts.

Thanks for the reply.

To your follow-up question, yes, the average I am referring to is the average that shows up on the PIQ last six session average.

Regarding the firmware issue, I will definitely upload a report when I'm back after the holiday. I updated it one more time, and it showed the new firmware version, but I suspect when I turn it on next, it will have rolled back. It seems like if the device remains off for a few days, the firmware update is gone. It's weird, but it's been consistent.

 

[Babolat Official]

I was actually hitting against a wall. I see why it was not registering correctly.

That would explain it. When there is not a natural lag between shots (aka waiting for your opponent to return your ball), not every stroke is registered. Hitting against a while shortens time between shots, causing strokes to not register.

 

[Babolat Official]

Thanks for the reply.

To your follow-up question, yes, the average I am referring to is the average that shows up on the PIQ last six session average.

Regarding the firmware issue, I will definitely upload a report when I'm back after the holiday. I updated it one more time, and it showed the new firmware version, but I suspect when I turn it on next, it will have rolled back. It seems like if the device remains off for a few days, the firmware update is gone. It's weird, but it's been consistent.

Thanks for the update. I'm forwarding all of this info to our development team and will be in touch as soon as I can with details.

Keep sending me any questions or concerns you may have

 

[Mad Max]

What I really am most curious about is how it treats those times between points where you are kicking up balls with your feet and "dribbling" the ball with your racket to get it up. And what about those times where I send the ball back over the net to my opponent between games when she is going to serve? It must count those as shots, so maybe those are the volleys? Does it register anything when I throw the ball over the net with my arm?

These would be easy enough to test at some point. Design an experiment where I do 20 of these things in a row, download the session, and determine what it thought happened. If I wasn't paying through the nose for court time, I'd probably do this for an hour to test more thoroughly. Maybe some of you warm climate players can find an outdoor court and run some experiments for those of us descending into winter?

I hope Babolat opens up with how some of these scenario's are treated by the sensor. It would be really a bummer if the "between the point" racket moves throw off the other numbers, but there must be a fine line with determining what's a real shot and what's not.

i tried out the dribbling and kicking up the balls while attempting a session of only 10 serves: 5 1st serves and 5 2nd. it did not count any of the balls that i picked up (i picked up all ten one at a time to serve). it counted 5 serves and 5 smashes.

i am unable to tell which serves it counted as smashes as there is no timestamp on the counts and no speed ratings on the smashes. my shoulder has been bothering me so it was showing my serves at 67mph. with that i can assume these were my 1st serves and the smashes may have been my 2nd serves? to me that didnt make much sense since my 2nd serves are slower with a lot more slice. i always figured my smashes to be faster than my serves.

i also tried out a session of 10 shots to test the sending of the balls back to the server. i had one of my players serve to me, i let him ace me, then kicked up a nearby ball and hit a mid-level lob to return the ball to him. i proceeded to walk over to the backhand side for the next serve and repeated the process. we did this ten times and the sensor claimed there was not enough shots registered to create a session (screen said needs a minimum of 5 i believe).

i am a south texas high school tennis coach so i have lots of time and perfect weather to run test situations for you guys. it will help my team as well so that we can better understand our session results and improve on them.

 

[Babolat Official]

I've got some updates from our development team as well as some follow up questions.

Thanks for the reply.

To your follow-up question, yes, the average I am referring to is the average that shows up on the PIQ last six session average.

Regarding the firmware issue, I will definitely upload a report when I'm back after the holiday. I updated it one more time, and it showed the new firmware version, but I suspect when I turn it on next, it will have rolled back. It seems like if the device remains off for a few days, the firmware update is gone. It's weird, but it's been consistent.

• In regards to volleys and whether or not they count in the PIQScore, including spin, speed, and style, they do not. Volleys are not calculated as part of average PIQ Score.

• Also, I know you asked about spin and why that wasn't being measured on your shots. The spin is calculated based on a vertical swingpath and speed of swing. Those two elements are taken into account in the algorithm that calculates your overall spin rating.
• The shots per minute calculation is based on actual playing time, not total playing time.
• You had a question about what is counted as a shot. Strokes that look like a shot, such as feeding, may be counted within the shot count. Picking up the balls should not have any effect, however.

As for the issue you had with serves not being counted properly: were you hitting serves in a match? Were you using a basket of balls? Knowing this will help us better understand your situation.

Finally, the team is looking into the issues you had with the firmware reverting to older versions as well as your duplicate sessions. I appreciate your patience as we work to figure out a solution. Hope that helps!

i tried out the dribbling and kicking up the balls while attempting a session of only 10 serves: 5 1st serves and 5 2nd. it did not count any of the balls that i picked up (i picked up all ten one at a time to serve). it counted 5 serves and 5 smashes.

i am unable to tell which serves it counted as smashes as there is no timestamp on the counts and no speed ratings on the smashes. my shoulder has been bothering me so it was showing my serves at 67mph. with that i can assume these were my 1st serves and the smashes may have been my 2nd serves? to me that didnt make much sense since my 2nd serves are slower with a lot more slice. i always figured my smashes to be faster than my serves.

i also tried out a session of 10 shots to test the sending of the balls back to the server. i had one of my players serve to me, i let him ace me, then kicked up a nearby ball and hit a mid-level lob to return the ball to him. i proceeded to walk over to the backhand side for the next serve and repeated the process. we did this ten times and the sensor claimed there was not enough shots registered to create a session (screen said needs a minimum of 5 i believe).

i am a south texas high school tennis coach so i have lots of time and perfect weather to run test situations for you guys. it will help my team as well so that we can better understand our session results and improve on them.

Thanks for taking a look into this. I clarified with the development team, and picking up/dribbling balls should have no effect. However, feeds may count within the shot count rating. If you were hitting varied levels of feeds/speeds of feeds, that could cause some to not be registered. Also, I appreciate your offer to run test situations. I don't know of any at the moment, but regular use of the device with your feedback is very welcome and will help us identify potential issues or opportunities for improvement.


Thank you all again for all of the feedback. Keep it coming, and I'm happy to answer any questions for you all.

 

[thebigz]

just update the app yesterday. The Skill section and the Dashboard is very cool! Please keep adding more features to the app! I would love to see a overview for a certain stroke within each week/month/all time etc, so I can see my data throughout a time period, rather than only in each session right now. Also, will there be a spin rate display for serve in the future?

 

[Dan W]

It's nice to see others joining the thread and sharing their experiences. Thanks to everyone who has been contributing so far.

i tried out the dribbling and kicking up the balls while attempting a session of only 10 serves: 5 1st serves and 5 2nd. it did not count any of the balls that i picked up (i picked up all ten one at a time to serve). it counted 5 serves and 5 smashes.

i am unable to tell which serves it counted as smashes as there is no timestamp on the counts and no speed ratings on the smashes. my shoulder has been bothering me so it was showing my serves at 67mph. with that i can assume these were my 1st serves and the smashes may have been my 2nd serves? to me that didnt make much sense since my 2nd serves are slower with a lot more slice. i always figured my smashes to be faster than my serves.

i also tried out a session of 10 shots to test the sending of the balls back to the server. i had one of my players serve to me, i let him ace me, then kicked up a nearby ball and hit a mid-level lob to return the ball to him. i proceeded to walk over to the backhand side for the next serve and repeated the process. we did this ten times and the sensor claimed there was not enough shots registered to create a session (screen said needs a minimum of 5 i believe).

i am a south texas high school tennis coach so i have lots of time and perfect weather to run test situations for you guys. it will help my team as well so that we can better understand our session results and improve on them.

Thanks for testing picking up and dribbling. Now I know I can do that without worry. It looks like I'll have to be careful with feeds. If I think of something else, I'll let you know

I'm betting that it counted your five first serves as smashes and your five second serves as serves. I'm assuming your first serves are flat and your second serves are more spin. So a flat first serve looks more like a flat overhead smash. Based on how I serve and hit smashes, that's how I think it would count them for me.

I've got some updates from our development team as well as some follow up questions.

• In regards to volleys and whether or not they count in the PIQScore, including spin, speed, and style, they do not. Volleys are not calculated as part of average PIQ Score.

• Also, I know you asked about spin and why that wasn't being measured on your shots. The spin is calculated based on a vertical swingpath and speed of swing. Those two elements are taken into account in the algorithm that calculates your overall spin rating.
• The shots per minute calculation is based on actual playing time, not total playing time.
• You had a question about what is counted as a shot. Strokes that look like a shot, such as feeding, may be counted within the shot count. Picking up the balls should not have any effect, however.

As for the issue you had with serves not being counted properly: were you hitting serves in a match? Were you using a basket of balls? Knowing this will help us better understand your situation.

Finally, the team is looking into the issues you had with the firmware reverting to older versions as well as your duplicate sessions. I appreciate your patience as we work to figure out a solution. Hope that helps!



Thanks for taking a look into this. I clarified with the development team, and picking up/dribbling balls should have no effect. However, feeds may count within the shot count rating. If you were hitting varied levels of feeds/speeds of feeds, that could cause some to not be registered. Also, I appreciate your offer to run test situations. I don't know of any at the moment, but regular use of the device with your feedback is very welcome and will help us identify potential issues or opportunities for improvement.


Thank you all again for all of the feedback. Keep it coming, and I'm happy to answer any questions for you all.

Thanks for your answers, they are very helpful.

I submitted a report through the app for the issue with the missing session in my dashboard.

Regarding the firmware issue, it seems like the situation has changed. I confirmed that it had rolled back again today (from 6.36.177x to 6.36.1693). However, I noticed there was a newer version of the phone app which I downloaded and installed, and with that the available firmware changed to something much newer (6.36.2046) than before, which I downloaded and installed. I'll have to see if the new phone app and new firmware have resolved that issue before submitting a report.

Regarding the serves that were not counted, I'll have to pay more attention. Most of my serves are during "match" play conditions, but in one of my training sessions we were doing serve practice, so repeated serves back to back. I'm not sure which session showed the issue, so I'll monitor.

 

[Dan W]

@Babolat Official
The firmware issue looks like it is resolved for me. After the Android app update and the newest sensor firmware update, the firmware has not rolled back after multiple uses and multiple days. I'm calling that issue fixed.

Question: Is there a way to delete a profile and account? My wife mistakenly created two (one each on two different phones). Besides having one she doesn't need, it makes it difficult to issue a challenge to her since I don't know which one to select since they're identical.

 

[Babolat Official]

just update the app yesterday. The Skill section and the Dashboard is very cool! Please keep adding more features to the app! I would love to see a overview for a certain stroke within each week/month/all time etc, so I can see my data throughout a time period, rather than only in each session right now. Also, will there be a spin rate display for serve in the future?

Glad you're enjoying the app. I will definitely relay your suggestions to the development team! I'm not sure about the spin rate display, but we'll look into it.

@Babolat Official
The firmware issue looks like it is resolved for me. After the Android app update and the newest sensor firmware update, the firmware has not rolled back after multiple uses and multiple days. I'm calling that issue fixed.

Question: Is there a way to delete a profile and account? My wife mistakenly created two (one each on two different phones). Besides having one she doesn't need, it makes it difficult to issue a challenge to her since I don't know which one to select since they're identical.

I'm glad you're firmware issue was resolved. I've inquired about the deleting of profiles and will get back to you as soon as I have a solution

 

[Dan W]

Has anyone else noticed that the "Trends" part of the app Dashboard is incorrect?

I submitted a report for my issue. I have 5 recorded sessions in November. The "Trends" portion of my Dashboard shows 2 sessions in October and 2 in November. I hadn't even used the device in October.

 

[Babolat Official]

Has anyone else noticed that the "Trends" part of the app Dashboard is incorrect?

I submitted a report for my issue. I have 5 recorded sessions in November. The "Trends" portion of my Dashboard shows 2 sessions in October and 2 in November. I hadn't even used the device in October.

Thanks for submitting that report. I'll check in with the development team.

 

[Tristan Meadows]

How does this device measure spin....? Since many other factors affect spin in curious how a device not attached to the racquet could accurately measure RPMs.

 

[Tristan Meadows]

How does this device measure spin....?

@Babolat Official

 

[Babolat Official]

How does this device measure spin....? Since many other factors affect spin in curious how a device not attached to the racquet could accurately measure RPMs.

The POP uses an algorithm that takes into account the verticality of the shot and the speed of the sensor to provide a spin measurement.

 

[Tristan Meadows]

The POP uses an algorithm that takes into account the verticality of the shot and the speed of the sensor to provide a spin measurement.

But strings and racquet affect spin so the measurement isn't accurate?

 

[Dan W]

Thanks for submitting that report. I'll check in with the development team.

My support request (#1079) has indicated I should expect to only see four sessions in the Trends area since only sessions after a certain app version are being counted. However, why sessions are showing up in the wrong month has not yet been fixed.

 

[Dan W]

But strings and racquet affect spin so the measurement isn't accurate?

I'm just making an educated guess here, but even an on-racket sensor really couldn't measure true RPM. String tension, number of mains vs. crosses, roughness of string, diameter of string, etc... all affect spin off of the string bed and no sensor would know all those variables. Real RPM would have to be calculated off of direct measurement of spin from a video is my guess.

The Pop doesn't actually give you RPM by the way. It's a relative percentage based off some reference maximum that is correlated to probably Rafa's buggy-whip forehand. That's why I'm only at 15%

 

[Babolat Official]

But strings and racquet affect spin so the measurement isn't accurate?

Since the sensor is on your wrist, certain factors are not taken into account, like the string and racket. The PLAY rackets provide better information since the racket is included in the measurement, but that's at a different price point, of course.

As Dan W mentioned, an RPM measurement is not given. Since there are so many factors that go into that, including racket, strings, temperature, balls, air pressure, etc, the only true way to do give an exact RPM measurement is via high speed video. The POP rather gives you a rating so that you can better understand your game and improve upon it, while also challenging friends.

 

[Babolat Official]

My support request (#1079) has indicated I should expect to only see four sessions in the Trends area since only sessions after a certain app version are being counted. However, why sessions are showing up in the wrong month has not yet been fixed.

Thanks for the heads up. The development team has noticed this problem and is working on a fix. Stay tuned!

 

[Tristan Meadows]

Since the sensor is on your wrist, certain factors are not taken into account, like the string and racket. The PLAY rackets provide better information since the racket is included in the measurement, but that's at a different price point, of course.

As Dan W mentioned, an RPM measurement is not given. Since there are so many factors that go into that, including racket, strings, temperature, balls, air pressure, etc, the only true way to do give an exact RPM measurement is via high speed video. The POP rather gives you a rating so that you can better understand your game and improve upon it, while also challenging friends.

Thanks for the explanation, I plan to buy it around Christmas!

 

[Babolat Official]

Thanks for the explanation, I plan to buy it around Christmas!

And plan to use it on December 26th, right?

 

[Dan W]

I have a question for those of you that have used the "Challenge" feature.

Where do you have your phone when you are recording the challenge? I've noticed that the phone has to be close enough to remain connected to record every shot. I first placed my phone just behind the baseline while I hit, but I noticed that the sensor would disconnect from time to time and miss my shots as I moved around. I eventually had to keep my phone in my pocket while I hit in order to keep it connected. It's not a huge deal, but it feels odd having a phone on me while I move from shot to shot.

Today it seemed like my wife's sensor was not recording every shot while she did a backhand challenge while I was hitting feeds to her. I'm making that assumption because she was hitting more shots than were being recorded so I figured the sensor was not staying connected. She was keeping her phone in the small pocket of her tennis skirt, but Bluetooth doesn't have the strongest of transmitters. I'm thinking the phone being up against her leg was killing the link margin between the sensor and phone.

Any other experiences?

 

[Babolat Official]

I have a question for those of you that have used the "Challenge" feature.

Where do you have your phone when you are recording the challenge? I've noticed that the phone has to be close enough to remain connected to record every shot. I first placed my phone just behind the baseline while I hit, but I noticed that the sensor would disconnect from time to time and miss my shots as I moved around. I eventually had to keep my phone in my pocket while I hit in order to keep it connected. It's not a huge deal, but it feels odd having a phone on me while I move from shot to shot.

Today it seemed like my wife's sensor was not recording every shot while she did a backhand challenge while I was hitting feeds to her. I'm making that assumption because she was hitting more shots than were being recorded so I figured the sensor was not staying connected. She was keeping her phone in the small pocket of her tennis skirt, but Bluetooth doesn't have the strongest of transmitters. I'm thinking the phone being up against her leg was killing the link margin between the sensor and phone.

Any other experiences?

In these feeding sessions, were you giving a normal delay between shots being fed? As I mentioned above with mhkeuns, the POP records as if a person is hitting with a partner, not necessarily against a wall or if balls are being fed too rapidly.

Also, in my experience, I've left my phone at a bench near the net and it recorded my challenge successfully. I use an iPhone 6.

 

[Dan W]

In these feeding sessions, were you giving a normal delay between shots being fed? As I mentioned above with mhkeuns, the POP records as if a person is hitting with a partner, not necessarily against a wall or if balls are being fed too rapidly.

Also, in my experience, I've left my phone at a bench near the net and it recorded my challenge successfully. I use an iPhone 6.

Thanks, yes, let me clarify. During the feeding sessions she and I would rally multiple shots back and forth until we missed a shot, then I would re-feed starting another rally, so we were rallying and feeding at a normal pace.

Just so I'm clear how I believe the sensor to work during a challenge, it does need to remain actively connected to the phone to track each individual shot, correct? If you lose connection, you will miss shots? It doesn't "record" the challenge and sync it later like a match or open session/training event.

That said, based on my knowledge of Bluetooth and that the range is generally stated to be around 10 meters (32 feet) in good conditions, I'm quite surprised that you've been successful with the phone off to the side by the net while you run the baseline. That's easily over 40 feet in most instances. I'll have to try this again the next time we do a challenge and see how it works from that distance.

 

[Babolat Official]

Thanks, yes, let me clarify. During the feeding sessions she and I would rally multiple shots back and forth until we missed a shot, then I would re-feed starting another rally, so we were rallying and feeding at a normal pace.

Just so I'm clear how I believe the sensor to work during a challenge, it does need to remain actively connected to the phone to track each individual shot, correct? If you lose connection, you will miss shots? It doesn't "record" the challenge and sync it later like a match or open session/training event.

That said, based on my knowledge of Bluetooth and that the range is generally stated to be around 10 meters (32 feet) in good conditions, I'm quite surprised that you've been successful with the phone off to the side by the net while you run the baseline. That's easily over 40 feet in most instances. I'll have to try this again the next time we do a challenge and see how it works from that distance.

Yes, it needs to remain connected to the phone while you complete the challenge. It's a real-time feature that counts as the shots are hit and measures statistics at that same time as well.

I'll be back with more info soon.

 

[shamaho]

I've been following this thread but still I have not yet seen actual value gained from using this device.

What value our insights have gained into your game by using the sensor?

Hoping to hear from the users add it seems the technology still needs a couple of years to evolve before it gets really useful.

I'm Not putting the device down, I value the investment made and the effort to push things forward.

 

[mhkeuns]

I've been following this thread but still I have not yet seen actual value gained from using this device.

What value our insights have gained into your game by using the sensor?

Hoping to hear from the users add it seems the technology still needs a couple of years to evolve before it gets really useful.

I'm Not putting the device down, I value the investment made and the effort to push things forward.

I think the real value of using the Pop sensor is the fun factor. Sure it can be improved by adding more sensors to attach to the racket frame to calculate the impact, spin and other factors. But, what this device does is make me look at the stats to see if I made some improvements on my swing speed or the swing path. I always thought and have heard feedback that I hit heavy topspin on both forehand and backhand. However, the sensor tells me that my stroke mechanics are far superior on my backhand side. Most of my backhand shots get registered exactly as I intended, but with my forehand, the vast majority of my strokes get registered as flat strokes?
It may not be a complete teaching tool, but it does make me think more about how I play.

 

[Dan W]

I've been following this thread but still I have not yet seen actual value gained from using this device.

What value our insights have gained into your game by using the sensor?

Hoping to hear from the users add it seems the technology still needs a couple of years to evolve before it gets really useful.

I'm Not putting the device down, I value the investment made and the effort to push things forward.

I purchased the device shortly after it was made available to the public. There have been a few firmware updates and app updates since I bought it. Several of my earlier observations are posted earlier in this thread.

The most important thing you need to be aware of is that the capabilities and features are reflective of the design and corresponding price point. This is an on-wrist sensor so it's capabilities are reduced versus on-racket sensors. It provides you relative measures of your performance, not absolute measures. It does give you speed on serves, forehands, and backhands, but it's not racket speed or ball speed, it's swing speed. For example, I know through a few Playsight sessions that my first serve typically falls in the low 90's and high 80's in miles per hour. My first serves as recorded on the POP show up in the mid to high 70's.

It seems to have a fairly high threshold on determining if you've got strokes with enough topspin to not be counted as a flat stroke. I hit topspin forehands, but they are almost always registered as flat. These tough thresholds for spin and speed make the PIQ score it calculates for you relatively low. 10,000 is the maximum PIQ score and is supposed to correlate with a professional player. It's obvious to me that if I play for the rest of my life I'll never see the top part of that scale. My average score is sitting just below 3000, and that's where I'll probably stay unless I quit my job and start taking daily lessons

I would say that accuracy is mostly OK for recording types of shots. It's good, but I think there's still some work to do to distinguish volleys from short forehand/backhand strokes and serves from smashes. I personally am not expecting 100% accuracy, however.

My last neutral/negative comment is that the phone-side app still has some minor bugs. I've seen my activity score drop to zero unexpectedly in the middle of the month and my ranking drop to the bottom, but after a day or two it comes back. It's supposed to reset at the start of each month. I also have reported some issues with the Trends stat that it keeps (data is in the wrong month) but Babolat has acknowledged that bug and said they're working on it. The challenge feature seemed to flake out once on my wife, who finished a challenge with me but the data seemed to be lost and her challenge scored ended up being zero when it was shared with me.

One other thing that it screwy with the community is some of these people who are at the top of the leader-board can't be real. For example, there's a guy who has an activity score >45000 and shows that he's logged 395 hours of play time since he started. If you consider the device was made available in the US in late October and let's say he's been using it for the past 6 weeks, he'd have to log about 65 hours a week of play to hit that number. I call BS on that one.

Now, all of that said, I actually like the device and I still think there is the promise of it being improved if Babolat sticks to developing it. I like using the challenge feature with my wife. I like the skills section that tracks when you hit milestones on numbers of shots. I like being able to track my progress, with the understanding that it's all relative to some algorithms that Babolat/PIQ have come up with. The fun factor is there for me. It's like $80-90 bucks to buy with no ongoing expenses. Other sensors are more expensive, and consider, if you want to get real, actual quantitative numbers you would need to join a club that has multi-thousand dollar video systems installed and pay to have sessions recorded and analyzed. None of the sensors on the market can really do that yet.

 

[shamaho]

Thanks for all the responses.

My conclusion regarding value is: only for fun.

I would never ever take any valuable input from the indicators provided.

I get 100x more technical, tactical, etc insight just from watching myself play from a recorded video. So it's much more valuable than the sensor

 

[Babolat Official]

I purchased the device shortly after it was made available to the public. There have been a few firmware updates and app updates since I bought it. Several of my earlier observations are posted earlier in this thread.

The most important thing you need to be aware of is that the capabilities and features are reflective of the design and corresponding price point. This is an on-wrist sensor so it's capabilities are reduced versus on-racket sensors. It provides you relative measures of your performance, not absolute measures. It does give you speed on serves, forehands, and backhands, but it's not racket speed or ball speed, it's swing speed. For example, I know through a few Playsight sessions that my first serve typically falls in the low 90's and high 80's in miles per hour. My first serves as recorded on the POP show up in the mid to high 70's.

It seems to have a fairly high threshold on determining if you've got strokes with enough topspin to not be counted as a flat stroke. I hit topspin forehands, but they are almost always registered as flat. These tough thresholds for spin and speed make the PIQ score it calculates for you relatively low. 10,000 is the maximum PIQ score and is supposed to correlate with a professional player. It's obvious to me that if I play for the rest of my life I'll never see the top part of that scale. My average score is sitting just below 3000, and that's where I'll probably stay unless I quit my job and start taking daily lessons

I would say that accuracy is mostly OK for recording types of shots. It's good, but I think there's still some work to do to distinguish volleys from short forehand/backhand strokes and serves from smashes. I personally am not expecting 100% accuracy, however.

My last neutral/negative comment is that the phone-side app still has some minor bugs. I've seen my activity score drop to zero unexpectedly in the middle of the month and my ranking drop to the bottom, but after a day or two it comes back. It's supposed to reset at the start of each month. I also have reported some issues with the Trends stat that it keeps (data is in the wrong month) but Babolat has acknowledged that bug and said they're working on it. The challenge feature seemed to flake out once on my wife, who finished a challenge with me but the data seemed to be lost and her challenge scored ended up being zero when it was shared with me.

One other thing that it screwy with the community is some of these people who are at the top of the leader-board can't be real. For example, there's a guy who has an activity score >45000 and shows that he's logged 395 hours of play time since he started. If you consider the device was made available in the US in late October and let's say he's been using it for the past 6 weeks, he'd have to log about 65 hours a week of play to hit that number. I call BS on that one.

Now, all of that said, I actually like the device and I still think there is the promise of it being improved if Babolat sticks to developing it. I like using the challenge feature with my wife. I like the skills section that tracks when you hit milestones on numbers of shots. I like being able to track my progress, with the understanding that it's all relative to some algorithms that Babolat/PIQ have come up with. The fun factor is there for me. It's like $80-90 bucks to buy with no ongoing expenses. Other sensors are more expensive, and consider, if you want to get real, actual quantitative numbers you would need to join a club that has multi-thousand dollar video systems installed and pay to have sessions recorded and analyzed. None of the sensors on the market can really do that yet.

Thanks for the detailed feedback, Dan. I appreciate your insight, both in this thread and the other POP thread. As for the individual with a very high score, we will look into the leaderboard issues. Also, the activity score is for POP and Play (it's a merged community), and you can distinguish who uses what based on the racket or wristband symbol by their name. Not saying that this explains the issue, but I'm just offering it as an FYI.

 

[Dan W]

... Also, the activity score is for POP and Play (it's a merged community), and you can distinguish who uses what based on the racket or wristband symbol by their name. Not saying that this explains the issue, but I'm just offering it as an FYI.

Ah! I had never noticed that detail. Yes, several of the top players with high session durations are in fact Play users and not Pop users.

 

[Dan W]

I learned something about myself after I analyzed a session I recorded at a hitting lane at my club. This was the first time I used the POP in a hitting lane session, and I exclusively hit with my topspin forehand and topspin backhand strokes. I previously have been somewhat critical of the sensor with how difficult it has been to get my topspin shots recorded when I'm playing. An overwhelming majority of my shots show up as "flat" when reviewed afterwards.

For example, in a session where my wife and I played, it recorded 33 forehands: 31 flat, 1 slice, 1 topspin and 19 backhands: 8 flat, 9 slice, 2 topspin. The backhand numbers are a bit skewed here because during the match, I do hit a fair number of slice shots.

Now, from the hitting lane - 154 forehands: 72 flat, 0 slice, 82 topspin and 89 backhands: 34 flat, 0 slice, 55 topspin.

So, it's very obvious to me that I do in fact have strokes that are solid for topspin, but in a match situation, I'm being much more conservative and not taking the full strokes that I do at the hitting lane. This was a surprising fact and not something I was consciously aware of. I'm playing a match again tomorrow and I'm going to see if I concentrate more on hitting a full stroke if my topspin percentage starts to approach my hitting lane numbers.

 

[Babolat Official]

I learned something about myself after I analyzed a session I recorded at a hitting lane at my club. This was the first time I used the POP in a hitting lane session, and I exclusively hit with my topspin forehand and topspin backhand strokes. I previously have been somewhat critical of the sensor with how difficult it has been to get my topspin shots recorded when I'm playing. An overwhelming majority of my shots show up as "flat" when reviewed afterwards.

For example, in a session where my wife and I played, it recorded 33 forehands: 31 flat, 1 slice, 1 topspin and 19 backhands: 8 flat, 9 slice, 2 topspin. The backhand numbers are a bit skewed here because during the match, I do hit a fair number of slice shots.

Now, from the hitting lane - 154 forehands: 72 flat, 0 slice, 82 topspin and 89 backhands: 34 flat, 0 slice, 55 topspin.

So, it's very obvious to me that I do in fact have strokes that are solid for topspin, but in a match situation, I'm being much more conservative and not taking the full strokes that I do at the hitting lane. This was a surprising fact and not something I was consciously aware of. I'm playing a match again tomorrow and I'm going to see if I concentrate more on hitting a full stroke if my topspin percentage starts to approach my hitting lane numbers.

I'm glad to hear that the POP has given you some new insights on your game. I would be lying if I said my strokes are as aggressive in match play as they are in practice. It seems we both have some work to do

Also, I spoke with our development team, and you can call our After Sales department to erase an account. 1-877-316-9435 xt 284. They can help out with your wife's duplicate account.

 

[Scuoteguazza]

My POP stats have revealed to me something I didn't realize similar to what Dan W said: that most of my groundstrokes are flat when I thought I was hitting with topspin. It's also been interesting to see the racket speed. It would be good to find a formula that estimates ball speed.

My only complaint is that sometimes the POP doesn't record a session. I've had three consecutive matches where the POP seems to synch with my phone but when it's finished the calendar doesn't show any activity.

 

[Babolat Official]

My POP stats have revealed to me something I didn't realize similar to what Dan W said: that most of my groundstrokes are flat when I thought I was hitting with topspin. It's also been interesting to see the racket speed. It would be good to find a formula that estimates ball speed.

My only complaint is that sometimes the POP doesn't record a session. I've had three consecutive matches where the POP seems to synch with my phone but when it's finished the calendar doesn't show any activity.

Glad to hear that it's helping you better understand your game, but I'm sorry about the missed sessions. That's frustrating!

Can you do two things for me?

1) Can you report this error via the app itself. Under Settings, there is an option to send a report directly to our development team.
2) Can you provide me with the following information:
-Phone brand and model
-Phone OS/version
-Firmware

Hopefully with that info, I can help you figure out why sessions are missed.