bORG VS lENDL, THE RIVALRY WE MISSED

kiki

Banned
Very true Kiki, the touch part of the game was key for both of those guys, as well as serving, movement and volleying. They were both comfortable out on the clay in all aspects of the game. Yet, that strategy typically didn't work either versus Borg in that he had more success against them than the other way around, but those were some big wins for them. Borg did beat Pecci in the '81 SF in straight sets as well as in that '79 Final. Borg beat Adriano Panatta the last 5 times they played (4 times on clay). That Rome final in 1978 was a classic, when Borg threatened to walk off the court when coins were being thrown onto the court. He went on to take that match in 5 sets.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...zAdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4Z4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6710,5538334 ('79 article)

Giorgio%20e%20Chiarino%20Cimurri,%20Borg%20e%20Panatta%20(foto)_121123031301.JPG

Pecci beat Barazutti,Solomon,Vilas and Connors one after the other at 79 FO.Likewise, Wilander beat Lendl,Gerulaitis,Clerc and Vilas at 1982 FO.

Pecci beat Borg at his home (Montecarlo).

Panatta defeated Borg 2-0 at RG¡¡¡
 

kiki

Banned
Clerc was a smooth baseliner, his inside out FH shot was considered, right, the best in the game.Good serve, good gliding on clay, but not too strong indoors or grass.His best yr was 81, he aalmost defeats JMac at home in the DC final, after powndering, on fast indoor such a serious customer as Roscoe Tanner.His game was well suited against all the top guns other than Borg, whom I don´t recall beating-
 

mattennis

Hall of Fame
What Wilander did, at 17 years old, in the 1982 Roland Garros was simply amazing.

A 17 y.o. guy defeats nº3 in the world (and previous year's runner-up losing in five sets to Borg) Ivan Lendl (in five sets) in R16, then defeats nº6 in the world (and RG runner-up two years earlier) Gerulaitis in four sets in QF, then defeats nº5 in the world (and one of the best clay court players of the time) Jose Luis Clerc in four sets in SF, and then defeats nº4 in the world Guillermo Vilas (Roland Garros champion in 1977 and runner-up other times and a giant on clay) in four sets in the final.

Not bad for a (17 y.o.) teenager.
 

kiki

Banned
Have you ever offered an opinion on Tilden?

If so, the statement applies to you as well. :)

Yes, I did so.Don´t take it so seriously, this is just a forum.You are a guy willing to learn and go further than most newtards, I can see it in some of your posts.

OTOH, I understand that for somebody not too familiar with those times, Rosewall´s record at Wimbledon is deceiving.He couldn´t play it in his 10 prime years, and of course, we will never know the answer.Tennis organization was so completely different then, you just can´t use the same glasses you know.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
What Wilander did, at 17 years old, in the 1982 Roland Garros was simply amazing.

A 17 y.o. guy defeats nº3 in the world (and previous year's runner-up losing in five sets to Borg) Ivan Lendl (in five sets) in R16, then defeats nº6 in the world (and RG runner-up two years earlier) Gerulaitis in four sets in QF, then defeats nº5 in the world (and one of the best clay court players of the time) Jose Luis Clerc in four sets in SF, and then defeats nº4 in the world Guillermo Vilas (Roland Garros champion in 1977 and runner-up other times and a giant on clay) in four sets in the final.

Not bad for a (17 y.o.) teenager.

yeah, its sad that wilander's RG 82 run isn't talked about more ...... that was a brutal draw by any standards and wilander at 17 overcame that to win it ......

Having said that though, if borg was there, wilander would have pretty less chance of beating him ... seems a tad unfair mention that, but couldn't help it ...
 

kiki

Banned
yeah, its sad that wilander's RG 82 run isn't talked about more ...... that was a brutal draw by any standards and wilander at 17 overcame that to win it ......

Having said that though, if borg was there, wilander would have pretty less chance of beating him ... seems a tad unfair mention that, but couldn't help it ...

Some day, sooner or later, Borg had to lose to another baseliner on clay...
 

mattennis

Hall of Fame

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1125431/1/index.htm

heres an interesting article from 1982 before the french open about borg. even if they let him play the french without qualifying his mind or heart wasnt into it and he wouldnt have won.. kind of similar to what seemed to happen to wilander after 88 or courier in 94? tho borg achieved much more.. seemed to lose his concentration and intensity

That IS a very interesting article from the time itself when Bjorn was trying to come back in 1982, not seen that before, thanks.
 

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
And to add to that, Bjorn turned up in Las Vegas not long after Monte Carlo (April 1982) attempting to qualify for the Alan King Classic and was beaten by Dick Stockton.
I wish the sport's authorities and Bjorn had come to a compromise.
If Bjorn had been allowed to play the seven tournaments he wanted and the French, Wimbledon and US Open, that makes 10 tournaments anyway. Then again, the rules have to be the same for everyone.
As it was and with the rules then, I don't think Bjorn could have won any Grand Slam events in 82 having to qualify. He certainly wasn't in good enough form in match-play in spring 82.
 

kiki

Banned
And to add to that, Bjorn turned up in Las Vegas not long after Monte Carlo (April 1982) attempting to qualify for the Alan King Classic and was beaten by Dick Stockton.
I wish the sport's authorities and Bjorn had come to a compromise.
If Bjorn had been allowed to play the seven tournaments he wanted and the French, Wimbledon and US Open, that makes 10 tournaments anyway. Then again, the rules have to be the same for everyone.
As it was and with the rules then, I don't think Bjorn could have won any Grand Slam events in 82 having to qualify. He certainly wasn't in good enough form in match-play in spring 82.

the greatest question mark is...how Borg didn´t enter exclusively WCT tour, which had just broken with Gran Prix and would be glad to acommodate its rules for Borg?

It is a very good answer for those, like myself, that question Borg´s sincerity of intentions.IMO, he just wanted an excuse to leave, that´s it.If not, he´d have joined Hunt´s croop ( Lendl owned that tour with 10 wins including the Spring,Fall and Winter finals)
 

Xavier G

Hall of Fame
the greatest question mark is...how Borg didn´t enter exclusively WCT tour, which had just broken with Gran Prix and would be glad to acommodate its rules for Borg?

It is a very good answer for those, like myself, that question Borg´s sincerity of intentions.IMO, he just wanted an excuse to leave, that´s it.If not, he´d have joined Hunt´s croop ( Lendl owned that tour with 10 wins including the Spring,Fall and Winter finals)

Good points, kiki. I didn't think of the WCT Tour. The WCT tour was there in 1982 and Lendl truly dominated it.
 

kiki

Banned
Truth is that Hunt needed to back his boost move to break tennis structure with big stars.Connors, as usual, said NO to WCT; lendl, attracted by the short draws and big money became its main star.Hunt even gave Mc enroe a free pass to the Finals, even if he didn´t play one previous event...so, Hunt would have thrown in the red carpet for Borg to walk in.

No, Borg had the perfect excuse to quit the sport...till Lamar Hunt showed up.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
yeah, its sad that wilander's RG 82 run isn't talked about more ...... that was a brutal draw by any standards and wilander at 17 overcame that to win it ......

Having said that though, if borg was there, wilander would have pretty less chance of beating him ... seems a tad unfair mention that, but couldn't help it ...
I still remember the FO of 1982. I expected Vilas, Clerc, or Lendl to win. When Wilander won, I thought: "Who?"
(I had never heard of Wilander. Indeed, unseeded at the '81 FO, he had never before won a title on the ATP circuit.)

At 17, he had long (but curly) hair and seemed like another Swedish Borg-clone.

Another Swede with long hair winning the FO. Makes sense.
 
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Very interesting article big ted. As some players mentioned, it was a big error on the part of the Tour to ask Borg to qualify. He should have been able to play the majors without qualifying and he wasn't going to play the qualifying matches.

Borg's presence in the qualifying—the subject of so much hue and cry among the game's image-mongers—was necessary because of his refusal to comply with Rule 8 in the 1982 Grand Prix guide. It states that a player must commit to playing a minimum of 10 tournaments a year, not counting the French Open, Wimbledon and the U.S. Open, or be forced to qualify for all tournaments. Claiming he needed his "retirement" months and saying he desired more rest later—translation: time to perform in exhibitions from the Falkland Islands to Timbuktu at wages commensurate with whatever the designated countries' national debts will allow—Borg chose to enter seven tournaments and to petition the Men's International Professional Tennis Council to alter the rule. Forehand crosscourt. The MIPTC refused. Volley deep. Borg said fine, he would just as soon not go through the qualies at the French, which he has won only six times, and at Wimbledon, where he's only a five-time winner. Backhand pass. On the line.

Arthur Ashe, who's a member of the council and helped write the rule, last week agreed it was unfair. He said Borg had the ad. "It's one thing to say if a guy doesn't go the distance with 502 plate appearances, he doesn't qualify for the batting title," Ashe said. "This rule doesn't even let the guy come to bat."

Subsequently, Borg and his seconds pressed this point against the sport's ruling alphabet agencies—the International Tennis Federation (ITF) and the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) having joined the MIPTC in the fray—until last week, when Monte Carlo buzzed with the drone of tennis politicos searching for a compromise, their blazers and school ties and starch ludicrously out of place on the marble terraces overlooking magnificent Cap-Martin. Butch Buchholz, executive director of the ATP, huddled with Borg. Philippe Chatrier, president of the ITF, caucused with Buchholz. Sir Brian Burnett, chairman of the All England Club, jetted in for discussions with Borg, Chatrier and all the rest.


Would Wimbledon flout the Grand Prix rule and permit Borg to enter its draw straightaway? Would Borg break down and enter three more tournaments? (Significantly, by playing through the qualifying rounds of seven tournaments, Borg probably will wind up playing more—matches if not weeks—to play less.) Was all this nonsense?

Borg, standing on principle, wouldn't budge. "I am not helping them save face," he said.

"Bjorn is standing six feet behind the baseline, covering the corners and swatting every ball back," said Buchholz. "That's what made him great."
By this time the sentiment of the touring players, who in a January straw vote had split 50-50 on the question of whether Borg should have to qualify for the majors, had dramatically shifted to his side. "The council treats Borg like they are his parents and he is a 5-year-old," Lendl said. "Bjorn is old enough to know what he should do."

Vilas—as always the poet—said, "The rules were not thinking about this guy, this great champion. Life rules itself; there is balance in life. But this.... We are so sick about this."
 

kiki

Banned
Why Borg didn´t enter the WCT tour if he wanted to keep playing?

That circuit, with big money, possibility to pick the spots, short drawns and exotic venues was the perfect one for him at that point.

Maybe, the biggest question mark of the open era.

That decision may have changed history.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Some day, sooner or later, Borg had to lose to another baseliner on clay...

yeah, but I don't think he'd have declined enough by 82 for wilander to beat him ....

in general, I think lendl would've had a clearly better chance than wilander to beat borg with borg declining ....
 

kiki

Banned
yeah, but I don't think he'd have declined enough by 82 for wilander to beat him ....

in general, I think lendl would've had a clearly better chance than wilander to beat borg with borg declining ....

Maybe, truth is that Lendl´s two wins over Borg were on hard (Toronto) and indoors (Basle).But he was already a very strong clay courter, anyway.

Of course, Kodes was old enough to expect any win from him by that time.He retired in 1980.
 

big ted

Legend
Why Borg didn´t enter the WCT tour if he wanted to keep playing?

That circuit, with big money, possibility to pick the spots, short drawns and exotic venues was the perfect one for him at that point.

Maybe, the biggest question mark of the open era.

That decision may have changed history.

i guess his favorite tournaments were on the itf/grandprix tours?
wimbledon, french, monte carlo, etc.., and him being european wasnt the wct an american tour?

anyway i think you may have been right earlier, he probably knew he was on his way out anyway... he played monte carlo in 82 and 83 but you could say his last match was essentially that 81 us open final... borg even said in interviews he struggled with motivation all year in 81 so it was just the inevitable that was eventually going to happen and the tour didnt make it any easier for him trying to make him qualify
 

kiki

Banned
i guess his favorite tournaments were on the itf/grandprix tours?
wimbledon, french, monte carlo, etc.., and him being european wasnt the wct an american tour?

anyway i think you may have been right earlier, he probably knew he was on his way out anyway... he played monte carlo in 82 and 83 but you could say his last match was essentially that 81 us open final... borg even said in interviews he struggled with motivation all year in 81 so it was just the inevitable that was eventually going to happen and the tour didnt make it any easier for him trying to make him qualify

Many WCT events in Europe, and the Autumn finals also in that continent.No excuse at all, he had alreadpy planned to quit and was just looking for an excuse...
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
And to add to that, Bjorn turned up in Las Vegas not long after Monte Carlo (April 1982) attempting to qualify for the Alan King Classic and was beaten by Dick Stockton.

Borg was serving with 2 balls in his hand during that match(per tennis magazine)
 
See: http://www.nytimes.com/1982/04/20/sports/borg-advances.html (Borg beats Amaya in a qualifying match in Vegas).

It was during this time that Borg was playing some qualifying matches. He would later be asked to play the qualifiers at both the FO and Wimbledon by Tour officials. He was adament that he would not be play the qualifiers there and by March 1983, Borg had retired. He wanted to continue playing the majors and a somewhat reduced schedule at least for a while. This was after a remarkable amount of play over years. Borg was a remarkable prodigy in that he turned pro at 14 and won a Davis Cup match at 15. He had won junior Wimbledon and three majors while still only 20. He played a heavy official schedule and also a heavy unofficial schedule on top of that between 14-25. He was feeling mental burnout and wanted to reset. He would have played both Wimbledon and the US Open in 1982 and beyond had he reached a compromise with the Tour, but they didn't. Borg refused to fold and exited the Tour. Both sides suffered as a consequence. I would have loved to have seen Borg compete when he was 26-30, but we didn't get the chance. A part of Borg's persona is that he's very resolute and determined, but also very stubborn. That's a big reason he was so tough. Listen, by 25, Borg had started becoming his own man, having been coached by the very rigorous Lennart Bergelin. He wouldn't take orders from anyone by then, including Tour Officials and his own coach (See Connors as well and his dealings with the Frenach Open). He had lived a very rigourous existence from 14-25 and he wanted to reset having felt burned out in 1981. He knew that he wanted to reduce his schedule for a while and focus on winning more majors especially. It would have been great to have seen Borg, along with Jimmy, McEnroe, Lendl, Wilander, and then Becker by 1984..all with graphite frames and a lot of VS gut! Regardless, we are so fortunate to have had players like Borg and then Lendl who did so much to make the game of tennis what it is today. That's true greatness, to impact a whole sport like that.
 

kiki

Banned
That rivalry is the lost piece of the chain of the whole Golden Era of tennis.

But still, they played about 12 matches, including 1982 exos and Lendl won 3 of them, 2 indoors and 1 hard court outdoors.

The 1980 Masters F and the 1981 RG F marked the start of what could have become a fantastic rivalry for european tennis.

We had to wait till Lendl played Wilander and Becker, but that was right after Borg hung up the racket.
 

BTURNER

Legend
Folks, changing to graphite does nothing to stop mental lapses. Borg has to stay as mentally tough from 1983-1986 as we remember him from 1975-1980 if he is to continue to handle Lendl's growing game at the same success rate That is the big if, not whether he can handle the power, or the serve or the increasing stamina Lendl gained

I don't think comparing him to Connors as he ages is fruitful. He's more likely to see the advantages and disadvantages that Evert saw after she changed to graphite. They both hit a hell of a lot of balls for a hell of a long time while they ground down opponents. That kind of 'tunnel vision' and incessant concentration in a baseliner takes a mental toll earlier rather than later in a career . And then to discover in your late twenties that tennis players had to endure this thing called 'nerves', an entirely foreign concept to young Evert and Borg. Graphite sure doesn't help with that problem either.

We just can't see Borg's mental and emotional state as staying the same as we remember it. Now the graphite might propel some compensatory strategies into a modern game like it did with Evert, but the cost playing that kind of style from such and early age must still be paid in fluctuating mental strength. Ivan would have gotten a lot more gifts in those matches post 1982 than he had prior.
 
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kiki

Banned
champions always raise to the new situations.So, I think a new, fresh Borg would have found a way to fight on equal terms with the increasing power game of Lendl and later Becker, and the challenge of a cc player like him in Wilander, not to mention the challenge that Mc Enroe placed upon him.

But he would certainly need new adjustments.He did those adjustments early in his career to turn tables on Nastase and Connors...it all depended on his will and menthal aspect.
 

kiki

Banned
Coming back to Borg vs Lendl

In 1982 Borg only played exos ( and Montecarlo) and one of the most important took place in several australian cities; well, Borg won all his matches against him, including five setters (Mc Enroe and Gerulaitis, who was very popular down under, were also playing them).

Their last match, however, was an easy win for Lendl, in early 83 at the Chicago Exhibitional
 

CEvertFan

Hall of Fame
The first thing I noticed while watching some of that clip (unfortunately it's too blurry and difficult to see the ball in the youtube clip or I would have watched it all) was that Borg was really trying to pick on the Lendl backhand but Lendl seemed to be handling that strategy pretty well for the most part.

The 2nd thing was something which always amazes me every time I see it and that's Borg's movement. Just incredible.
 
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kiki

Banned
If you want to see some Borg fine moving against Lendl, watch 1980 Masters Final, on fast carpet.

Borg made it look easy to return those bullets...
 

Gizo

Hall of Fame
I would have loved to have seen this rivalry develop, especially after their 5 set matches at Basel in 1980 (a huge win for Lendl) and RG in 1981. Like Mac, Lendl looked up to Borg and revered him.

They met each other 4 times during the 1982 season:
October 1982 - Montreal Molson Challenge SF - Borg 7-6 7-6
November 1982 - Perth Swan Lager Super Challenge SF - Borg 6-4 1-6 6-3
November 1982 - Sydney AKAI Gold Challenge RR - Borg 6-1 6-4 6-2
January 1983 - Chicago Challenge of Champions SF - Lendl 6-1 7-5

Lendl was insanely dominant indoors in 1982, winning title after title (including the WCT Finals and Masters amongst others), and beating Mac and Connors left, right and centre under a roof that year. It was one of the best indoor seasons that any player has ever had. So for Borg to beat him 3 times out of 4 indoors that season was an excellent achievement.
 

kiki

Banned
It was, Gizo.

In fact, the only player that had a good record against the insane version of Lendl indoors that 1982 was, precisely, Bjorn Borg.

Lendl also won the first EEC Invitational tournament at Antwerp, the famous Golden and Diamonds Racket Trophy, beating in 4 sets John Mc Enroe.
 

Gizo

Hall of Fame
Yes Lendl had a 6-1 record against McEnroe and a 3-0 record against Connors during the 1982 season. His performances where he destroyed them back to back to win the Masters is among the best indoor tennis I've ever seen from any player.

Even with him playing that well on his strongest surface/setting, Borg was still a formidable match-up for him.
 

kiki

Banned
Yes Lendl had a 6-1 record against McEnroe and a 3-0 record against Connors during the 1982 season. His performances where he destroyed them back to back to win the Masters is among the best indoor tennis I've ever seen from any player.

Even with him playing that well on his strongest surface/setting, Borg was still a formidable match-up for him.

3-0 indoors vs Connors? I mean, Moolson and Masters, where is the other win I missed (Cincinnati was hard courts)?

Connors also beat Ivan at the 1982 Chicago Invitational, 6-2,3-6,6-3 in January.
I have it 2-1 for Lendl indoors and 3-2 overall ( with 1-1 on hard courts)

As for Lendl vs Mac, Mac won also their Chicago match but lost at MSG,Dallas,Europe vs America, 2 matches at Australia and Antwerp, so yeah, it is 6-1 indoors ( I watched live one of those)

Outdoors, Lendl beat John at Toronto and Flushing Meadows.8-1 against the best player of 1981 is completely astonishing and shows to what point Mc Enroe was a beaten man before entering the court to play him.
 
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Gizo

Hall of Fame
I always think that as Chicago took place the week before the Masters, it should count towards the season for the previous calendar year, i.e. Chicago in January 1982 belongs to the 1981 season, and Chicago in January 1983 belongs to the 1982 season, just like the following Masters tournaments. To me it wouldn't make sense to count Chicago in January 1982 as part of the 1982 season, but then the Masters a week later as part of the 1981 season. So they should both be treated the same way and allocated to the same season.

So for 1982 Lendl vs. Connors indoors:

Toronto Molson Challenge RR – Lendl 6-4 6-3
Chicago Challenge of Champions F – Lendl 4-6 6-4 7-5 6-4
Masters SF - Lendl 6-3 6-1

Lendl vs. McEnroe indoors:

Toronto Molson Challenge F – Lendl 7-5 3-6 7-6 7-5
WCT Finals F - Lendl 6-2 3-6 6-3 6-3
Sydney AKAI Gold Challenge RR – Lendl 7-5 6-2 1-6 4-6 6-1
Barcelona Europe vs. Americas – Lendl 2-6 7-5 6-2
Antwerp ECC F – Lendl 3-6 7-6 6-3 6-3
Chicago Challenge of Champions RR – McEnroe 6-3 6-2
Masters F - Lendl 6-4 6-4 6-2

Speaking of the Lendl vs. Mac rivalry, it's funny that for all of Lendl's criticism (a lot of it deserved) for failing to deliver in big matches, he actually beat Mac in most of their biggest matches. On the other hand Mac won most of the biggest matches in his rivalries against both Borg and Connors, which is probably another reason why he remembers those rivalries more fondly than the Lendl one.

Prime vs. prime Lendl and Mac were level 12-12 in their official matches from 1981-1985, but it was 2-1 to Lendl in slam finals, 4-2 to Lendl in slam matches, and 8-5 to Lendl in matches across the slams, Masters, WCT Finals and Davis Cup. Lendl overall also a clear winning record in their matches at Mac's home city in New York.

Overall, having recently discovered that Mac destroyed Lendl 7-5 6-2 6-1 at the Sydney AKAI Gold Challenge in February 1984, I currently have their overall h2h at 37-26 to Lendl in tournament matches.
 

kiki

Banned
I always think that as Chicago took place the week before the Masters, it should count towards the season for the previous calendar year, i.e. Chicago in January 1982 belongs to the 1981 season, and Chicago in January 1983 belongs to the 1982 season, just like the following Masters tournaments. To me it wouldn't make sense to count Chicago in January 1982 as part of the 1982 season, but then the Masters a week later as part of the 1981 season. So they should both be treated the same way and allocated to the same season.

So for 1982 Lendl vs. Connors indoors:

Toronto Molson Challenge RR – Lendl 6-4 6-3
Chicago Challenge of Champions F – Lendl 4-6 6-4 7-5 6-4
Masters SF - Lendl 6-3 6-1

Lendl vs. McEnroe indoors:

Toronto Molson Challenge F – Lendl 7-5 3-6 7-6 7-5
WCT Finals F - Lendl 6-2 3-6 6-3 6-3
Sydney AKAI Gold Challenge RR – Lendl 7-5 6-2 1-6 4-6 6-1
Barcelona Europe vs. Americas – Lendl 2-6 7-5 6-2
Antwerp ECC F – Lendl 3-6 7-6 6-3 6-3
Chicago Challenge of Champions RR – McEnroe 6-3 6-2
Masters F - Lendl 6-4 6-4 6-2

Speaking of the Lendl vs. Mac rivalry, it's funny that for all of Lendl's criticism (a lot of it deserved) for failing to deliver in big matches, he actually beat Mac in most of their biggest matches. On the other hand Mac won most of the biggest matches in his rivalries against both Borg and Connors, which is probably another reason why he remembers those rivalries more fondly than the Lendl one.

Prime vs. prime Lendl and Mac were level 12-12 in their official matches from 1981-1985, but it was 2-1 to Lendl in slam finals, 4-2 to Lendl in slam matches, and 8-5 to Lendl in matches across the slams, Masters, WCT Finals and Davis Cup. Lendl overall also a clear winning record in their matches at Mac's home city in New York.

Overall, having recently discovered that Mac destroyed Lendl 7-5 6-2 6-1 at the Sydney AKAI Gold Challenge in February 1984, I currently have their overall h2h at 37-26 to Lendl in tournament matches.

Your are right about the Chicago/Masters counting for the former season.

In 1981, Mac beat Lendl at the exhibitions of Barcelona (Europe vs America) and Chicago but lost at the Milan Brooklyn Masters ( another unofficial event) as well as three " official" matches at big events: Roland Garros,Davis Cup and Masters.

I didn´t recall of that Sidney exo in 1984, but I recalled that Lendl,Mac,Borg and Gerulaitis played those exos in 1982 in Australia (Perth,Sidney and Melbourne)
 

kiki

Banned
Coming back again to Borg.He was like Robert Plant.Pure charisma.One was the Blond God of Rock and the other the Blond God of tennis.

But he needed the interaction.

With Connors their matches were just a heavyweight world championship clash, it was that dense
With Mc Enroe, the total contrast between ice and fire.
 

Gizo

Hall of Fame
Borg was one of the few people who could pull off being so quiet. When he did it, he came across as cool and mysterious. When others did it, they came across as boring or aloof. He just had that x-factor and magnetism that drew people to like him, including fans, sponsors, his great rival Mac, and guys like Gerulaitis and Vilas who he beat like a drum time after time but still maintained strong friendships with him.

One of the few times he ever criticised anyone, was when he accused Connors of not giving opponents credit after they beat him, which was why other players enjoyed beating him so much. He was 100% spot on there. Connors openly refused to acknowledgement the improvements that Borg made to his serve and backhand as Borg began to gain more of a foothold and then take charge of their rivalry. Even in his autobiography which he released last year, his overall assessment of Borg's game was laughably dismissive, basically portraying him as nothing more than a baseline backboard.

Why Borg was a cool cat, I never liked his coach Bergelin as he was an incredibly annoying and whiny clown, and always made injury excuses every-time his pupil lost a big match without fail. He was such a bitter and sore loser. However Borg to his credit never went along with that and did give players who beat him credit and was gracious. Before Borg's defeat to Tanner at the 1979 US Open, when Bergelin moaned on and on about the night-time scheduling, lights etc, Peter Fleming who was on fire with his assessments and predictions that fortnight, correctly noted that that all he was doing was psyching out his own player.
 

Gizo

Hall of Fame
Your are right about the Chicago/Masters counting for the former season.

In 1981, Mac beat Lendl at the exhibitions of Barcelona (Europe vs America) and Chicago but lost at the Milan Brooklyn Masters ( another unofficial event) as well as three " official" matches at big events: Roland Garros,Davis Cup and Masters.

I didn´t recall of that Sidney exo in 1984, but I recalled that Lendl,Mac,Borg and Gerulaitis played those exos in 1982 in Australia (Perth,Sidney and Melbourne)

It's weird that while there is plenty of information available about the November 1982 AKAI Gold Challenge, there isn't much available about the February 1984 edition.

In 1984 the line-up was Mac, Lendl, Wilander and Vilas. I don't know all of the scorelines, but here are the ones that I do know:

February 15th:
RR: Lendl def. Wilander 6-0 6-4 6-2
RR: McEnroe def. Vilas 6-2 2-6 6-3 4-6 6-3 (with a bad-tempered McEnroe getting docked 2 penalty points and storming off the court during the 4th set)

February 16th:
RR: McEnroe def. Wilander 6-1 6-2 6-2

February 17th:
RR: McEnroe def. Lendl 7-5 6-2 6-1 (Mac enjoyed gloating about that victory and bringing up Lendl's 'hollow' world no. 1 ranking at the time)

February 18th:
Final: McEnroe def. Vilas 6-3 6-3 6-3

So unlike the November 1982 edition which just had RR group matches, the February 1984 event also had a final following on from the group matches. It looks like Mac won 4 best of 5 set matches in consecutive days to win the title. Very impressive stuff.

Then the next day Mac and Lendl flew to Auckland to play in a one-off exhibition match, which Lendl won 2-6 6-4 6-2 7-6. Within minutes of winning the match, Lendl was then whisked away by helicopter to the airport. What a brutal schedule those guys had.
 
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kiki

Banned
Borg was one of the few people who could pull off being so quiet. When he did it, he came across as cool and mysterious. When others did it, they came across as boring or aloof. He just had that x-factor and magnetism that drew people to like him, including fans, sponsors, his great rival Mac, and guys like Gerulaitis and Vilas who he beat like a drum time after time but still maintained strong friendships with him.

One of the few times he ever criticised anyone, was when he accused Connors of not giving opponents credit after they beat him, which was why other players enjoyed beating him so much. He was 100% spot on there. Connors openly refused to acknowledgement the improvements that Borg made to his serve and backhand as Borg began to gain more of a foothold and then take charge of their rivalry. Even in his autobiography which he released last year, his overall assessment of Borg's game was laughably dismissive, basically portraying him as nothing more than a baseline backboard.

Why Borg was a cool cat, I never liked his coach Bergelin as he was an incredibly annoying and whiny clown, and always made injury excuses every-time his pupil lost a big match without fail. He was such a bitter and sore loser. However Borg to his credit never went along with that and did give players who beat him credit and was gracious. Before Borg's defeat to Tanner at the 1979 US Open, when Bergelin moaned on and on about the night-time scheduling, lights etc, Peter Fleming who was on fire with his assessments and predictions that fortnight, correctly noted that that all he was doing was psyching out his own player.
I agree with the whole idea
But,basically due to Bergelin and Tiriac,Borg and Vilas broke abruptly their relationship in 1977
Therefore,Borg only trained seriously with Gerulaitis after that
 

kiki

Banned
In 1983 there was also a very polemichal and extremely rich exhibition at Sun City,Southafrica with Connors straightsetting Lendl in the final
The other two participants,of course,were Southafricans Kriek and Curren.
I think it is due to his taking part in this event,that led to Lendl breaking down with his own government since,in the Middle of Cold War,the Eastern bloc countries broke any possible link with Apartheid SouthAfrica
 

netlets

Professional
Folks, changing to graphite does nothing to stop mental lapses. Borg has to stay as mentally tough from 1983-1986 as we remember him from 1975-1980 if he is to continue to handle Lendl's growing game at the same success rate That is the big if, not whether he can handle the power, or the serve or the increasing stamina Lendl gained

I don't think comparing him to Connors as he ages is fruitful. He's more likely to see the advantages and disadvantages that Evert saw after she changed to graphite. They both hit a hell of a lot of balls for a hell of a long time while they ground down opponents. That kind of 'tunnel vision' and incessant concentration in a baseliner takes a mental toll earlier rather than later in a career . And then to discover in your late twenties that tennis players had to endure this thing called 'nerves', an entirely foreign concept to young Evert and Borg. Graphite sure doesn't help with that problem either.

We just can't see Borg's mental and emotional state as staying the same as we remember it. Now the graphite might propel some compensatory strategies into a modern game like it did with Evert, but the cost playing that kind of style from such and early age must still be paid in fluctuating mental strength. Ivan would have gotten a lot more gifts in those matches post 1982 than he had prior.

You do realize that Borg serve and volleyed his way to 5 consecutive Wimbledon titles, don't you? Comparing his game to Everts is not even in the ball park. Borg often attacked the net on faster services and had an excellent volley. Also, his first serve in pressure packed moments was highly under rated. I believe his winning percentage in Grand Slams in #1 all time.
 

BTURNER

Legend
You do realize that Borg serve and volleyed his way to 5 consecutive Wimbledon titles, don't you? Comparing his game to Everts is not even in the ball park. Borg often attacked the net on faster services and had an excellent volley. Also, his first serve in pressure packed moments was highly under rated. I believe his winning percentage in Grand Slams in #1 all time.
And that was about the only tournament he did much serve/ volley and he did not play much else on grass beyond Wimbledn From what I have seen, on hard courts, clay and even on carpet indoors in the 80's( I am watching for the serve/ volley vs Mac and Lendl as I type. Its pretty rare even on first serve so far )he tended to stay back on first and second and rally more than serve/ volley.

Now it is absolutely true that Evert never serve/ volleyed in singles( she reserved it for doubles which she played more frequently than Borg) but she sure did 'attack the net' and volley and she sure did it with increasing frequency as the years moved forward.

A player's winning percentage will normally be higher with a relatively early retirement. If you avoid the unfortunate losses of increased injuries, burn-out and age that begin to accrue with maddening frequency in your thirties, you dodge the full curve of a normal career. I would be much more impressed if Borg had maintained that percentage into his mid thirties or even early thirties. If you can hold onto your mental stamina playing full time for another 5, 6, or 7 yars, I am really impressed.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
And that was about the only tournament he did much serve/ volley and he did not play much else on grass beyond Wimbledn From what I have seen, on hard courts, clay and even on carpet indoors in the 80's( I am watching for the serve/ volley vs Mac and Lendl as I type. Its pretty rare even on first serve so far )he tended to stay back on first and second and rally more than serve/ volley.

Now it is absolutely true that Evert never serve/ volleyed in singles( she reserved it for doubles which she played more frequently than Borg) but she sure did 'attack the net' and volley and she sure did it with increasing frequency as the years moved forward.

A player's winning percentage will normally be higher with a relatively early retirement. If you avoid the unfortunate losses of increased injuries, burn-out and age that begin to accrue with maddening frequency in your thirties, you dodge the full curve of a normal career. I would be much more impressed if Borg had maintained that percentage into his mid thirties or even early thirties. If you can hold onto your mental stamina playing full time for another 5, 6, or 7 yars, I am really impressed.

Actually BTURNER I have found that Borg's winning percentage at age 25 was still higher than I believe any player in history at the same age. IMO Borg's winning percentage, if he continued would have gone up for a few years and then would have gone down. The thing about the early retirement keeping his percentage up is not entirely true. It may have stayed fairly close to his lifetime winning percentage at age 25.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
OMG...what an insane clip and rallies!! Thank you!! To think someone can use a wooden stick and match lendl with his modern Addidas stick at the baseline!! Incredible!!
This is a clip from their final at the Masters Cup played in January 1981 ('80 YEC at Madison Square Garden).


1980-bale-lendl-borg.jpg


safe_image.php
 

BTURNER

Legend
Actually BTURNER I have found that Borg's winning percentage at age 25 was still higher than I believe any player in history at the same age. IMO Borg's winning percentage, if he continued would have gone up for a few years and then would have gone down. The thing about the early retirement keeping his percentage up is not entirely true. It may have stayed fairly close to his lifetime winning percentage at age 25.
If he felt burn-out at all at 25, I can't see him keeping that percentage up all the way into his early or mid thirties. Think of what happened to Wilander.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
See: http://www.nytimes.com/1982/04/20/sports/borg-advances.html (Borg beats Amaya in a qualifying match in Vegas).

It was during this time that Borg was playing some qualifying matches. He would later be asked to play the qualifiers at both the FO and Wimbledon by Tour officials. He was adament that he would not be play the qualifiers there and by March 1983, Borg had retired. He wanted to continue playing the majors and a somewhat reduced schedule at least for a while. This was after a remarkable amount of play over years. Borg was a remarkable prodigy in that he turned pro at 14 and won a Davis Cup match at 15. He had won junior Wimbledon and three majors while still only 20. He played a heavy official schedule and also a heavy unofficial schedule on top of that between 14-25. He was feeling mental burnout and wanted to reset. He would have played both Wimbledon and the US Open in 1982 and beyond had he reached a compromise with the Tour, but they didn't. Borg refused to fold and exited the Tour. Both sides suffered as a consequence. I would have loved to have seen Borg compete when he was 26-30, but we didn't get the chance. A part of Borg's persona is that he's very resolute and determined, but also very stubborn. That's a big reason he was so tough. Listen, by 25, Borg had started becoming his own man, having been coached by the very rigorous Lennart Bergelin. He wouldn't take orders from anyone by then, including Tour Officials and his own coach (See Connors as well and his dealings with the Frenach Open). He had lived a very rigourous existence from 14-25 and he wanted to reset having felt burned out in 1981. He knew that he wanted to reduce his schedule for a while and focus on winning more majors especially.
An excellent summary of why Borg quit.

It belies that old myth that he realized he couldn't beat McEnroe. (See the Suntory Cup match of 1983.)

(I also believe that if Borg could have found a graphite racquet he liked, he could have played another 6-7 years.)
 
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