Clinic Clinic Etiquette -when and if to advise others - when and if to advise others?

[Govnor]

I go to a clinic once a week. The range of players is quite wide. I'm at the higher end of it. I find myself chomping at the bit to help others on their swings when I see them doing horrible things. However, I have held back from doing so....just.

I like and respect the pro who runs the clinic. But it isn't the kind of clinic where he's going into details on what an individual should do, breaking down their strokes repeatedly, he doesn't really have time, as it's advertised as a "cardio" class.

My gut feeling has been to just concentrate on my own game and shots. Let others do what they will.

I guess I'm just interested in feedback on this subject and if others have found themselves in this situation too?

 

[LeeD]

If someone approach's you for feedback or appear serious about improvment, proceed cautiously.
If not, do you own thing.

 

[luvforty]

it's immoral not to give tips when you see a problem.

 

[LeeD]

No, it's called..."minding your own business"....
You DON'T know the reasons other people are on the court, you don't know their personal lives, if they're receptive to critique, or if they're even remotely interested in persuing tennis to get good.

 

[andrehanderson]

Govnor!

I think its better to provide help if asked, rather than to offer it. While I would love for people who were better than me to be proactive and offer me advice, not everyone accepts help so quickly and I think you are opening yourself up to some awkward situations if you dont read the situation perfectly.

 

[Govnor]

yeah...that is what has held me back from saying anything. I think I'm spending too much time here!!! I'm seeing faults in everyone's play!!

 

[LeeD]

It's a learning experience and a GOOD thing that everyone has faults, or else YOU would be the single IMPERFECT human with flaws everyone else can see.
Learn from their flaws, but you don't have to TEACH anyone else anything, unless you want to, and they want you to.

 

[WildVolley]

Your gut feeling is correct. It isn't your show, and it would be disrespectful to the pro to take charge and try to change everyone's form.

On the other hand, if someone asks you can give a quick explanation, but you should still stay on task with the group.

 

[Overdrive]

I'm telling you right now that I would be irritated if someone approaches me and attempt to critique my strokes. I know what I'm doing right and wrong and I believe that I can fix it by myself..

Unless if it's an attractive older woman..

But if I'm having a bad day or really focused on playing, than I would request no help from anyone..

 

[Fusker]

Just don't do it. Nobody likes "that guy".

Unfortunately, the lack of instruction is just how a lot of these drill classes work. I've been in a good one this year where the instructor will pull people aside and explain some things during the point play part of the class. That's great.

Last night I started week one of a six session "boot camp", specific to the NTRP level. So I'm in a class with five other 4.5 players. The instructor asked up front what everybody was hoping to get from the class as a whole and from that session (which was dedicated to ground strokes). Sure enough, the thing I was hoping to get (improved forehand consistency) was repeatedly pointed out to me with suggestions. So far it's shaping up to be the kind of class I hope that all of these clinics are, but few actually deliver.

 

[Govnor]

Just don't do it. Nobody likes "that guy".

Unfortunately, the lack of instruction is just how a lot of these drill classes work. I've been in a good one this year where the instructor will pull people aside and explain some things during the point play part of the class. That's great.

Last night I started week one of a six session "boot camp", specific to the NTRP level. So I'm in a class with five other 4.5 players. The instructor asked up front what everybody was hoping to get from the class as a whole and from that session (which was dedicated to ground strokes). Sure enough, the thing I was hoping to get (improved forehand consistency) was repeatedly pointed out to me with suggestions. So far it's shaping up to be the kind of class I hope that all of these clinics are, but few actually deliver.

That sounds like a great class!!

 

[mucat]

I'm telling you right now that I would be irritated if someone approaches me and attempt to critique my strokes. I know what I'm doing right and wrong and I believe that I can fix it by myself..

Unless if it's an attractive older woman..

But if I'm having a bad day or really focused on playing, than I would request no help from anyone..

This is disgusting. Just because you want to meet up some attractive older women so you will help them? What about attractive younger women?

 

[pkshooter]

It depends how clueless they are.

 

[luvforty]

if a blind man crosses the street and is about to be hit by a truck, do you stop him?

if a beginner hits a tennis ball the wrong way? do you correct him?

in principle, the answer is the same.

 

[Overdrive]

This is disgusting. Just because you want to meet up some attractive older women so you will help them? What about attractive younger women?

No, I think conversation would be better.

Sure, nothing wrong with that.

 

[martini1]

My own guide line is if you are playing practice double on the same size it is ok to give advise if the other guy is at a lower level and miss shots I would have made 95% of the time.

It also have to do with personality and if I have talked to them before or not. I know some would take it as you are too bossy. I have actually cut way down on giving advices. Once in while some old guy gives me some stupid advice like when I was practicing kick serves and he told me I should hit the ball at the apex, etc. Yeah I know that feeling and I just smiled and gave him a finger in my head.

 

[TomT]

I go to a clinic once a week. The range of players is quite wide. I'm at the higher end of it. I find myself chomping at the bit to help others on their swings when I see them doing horrible things. However, I have held back from doing so....just.

Probably best that you held back, I think.

I like and respect the pro who runs the clinic. But it isn't the kind of clinic where he's going into details on what an individual should do, breaking down their strokes repeatedly, he doesn't really have time, as it's advertised as a "cardio" class.

My gut feeling has been to just concentrate on my own game and shots. Let others do what they will.

Yes, I think that's the best attitude. Any of the players with swings etc. you'd like to help will find what they need if they're so motivated.

I guess I'm just interested in feedback on this subject and if others have found themselves in this situation too?

I've been offered unsolicited advice by players better than me. It was done nicely, it was right on, and I accepted it. I don't offer advice to other players, but have had some beginners ask me various questions as we're hitting on the backboard at the same time.

Question: Did you run the thread title through the Department of Redundancy Department before posting, or what?

 

[Mick3391]

No, it's called..."minding your own business"....
You DON'T know the reasons other people are on the court, you don't know their personal lives, if they're receptive to critique, or if they're even remotely interested in persuing tennis to get good.

Well said, I wish everyone were like Lee.

I'm AMAZED how when we go on the Tennis Courts EVERYONE is all of a sudden an expert when they see my son.

I mean I'm kind of imposing and play great, doesn't stop these busy bodies. I mean we are polite, but these guys volunteer unsolicited, "Well what you want to do is on your backhand do two handed, let me......".

I mean we play better than they do, still doesn't stop them. One guy said "Well I've been playing for 10 years, let me show you.....", I said "If you can beat him you can teach him".

I'm doing my best, right or wrong to teach him my way, this busy bodies need to get lost. From now on I'm just going to tell them to F off. If I thought their intentions were good that would be one thing, but they just think they know everything, mainly they don't know squat.

It was funny that one time the 28 year old guy played Mick, he walks onto the court and starts saying "Do this and do that", Mick was just "Let's hit", then kicked his butt, I thought that was great. Anyways

 

[LeeD]

We occasionally get this one particular ex CalPoly singles player, who's 6'5" and about 230lbs. He hits snot out of the ball, his serves easy into the 140's, but don't go in, and his second serve bouncing up a foot higher than the top of my head, I'm 5'11".
Invariably, some 3.0-3.5 will chime in and say.." If Zack would just reach up higher on his serves, he'd hit it real hard".... and of course, "raise his ball toss higher".....
Naturally, Zack hardly ever has to actually HEAR the critique, since he blows off all of us as soon as the set is finished, him being the conqueror.

 

[Mick3391]

We occasionally get this one particular ex CalPoly singles player, who's 6'5" and about 230lbs. He hits snot out of the ball, his serves easy into the 140's, but don't go in, and his second serve bouncing up a foot higher than the top of my head, I'm 5'11".
Invariably, some 3.0-3.5 will chime in and say.." If Zack would just reach up higher on his serves, he'd hit it real hard".... and of course, "raise his ball toss higher".....
Naturally, Zack hardly ever has to actually HEAR the critique, since he blows off all of us as soon as the set is finished, him being the conqueror.

Yea I don't get it. On this forum when some ask I "might" say something if I think I have something to offer, but these guys offer what they don't know, it's just weird. I think you got it right, "Busy-bodies"

 

[SFrazeur]

if a blind man crosses the street and is about to be hit by a truck, do you stop him?

if a beginner hits a tennis ball the wrong way? do you correct him?

in principle, the answer is the same.

No they are not. Only the blind man is in a life or death situation. Do not ever go onto an instructor's court and teach fellow students. For your information: Some people do not want to make changes. They just want to hit balls. They want the exercise and to practice for themselves.

-SF

 

[Mick3391]

No they are not. Only the blind man is in a life or death situation. Do not ever go onto an instructor's court and teach fellow students. For your information: Some people do not want to make changes. They just want to hit balls. They want the exercise and to practice for themselves.

-SF

Amen.

From now on if people offer advice I'm going to tell them off. How does someone compare a life and death situation with tennis instruction?

 

[WildVolley]

No they are not. Only the blind man is in a life or death situation. Do not ever go onto an instructor's court and teach fellow students. For your information: Some people do not want to make changes. They just want to hit balls. They want the exercise and to practice for themselves.

-SF

I think Dozu is just trolling. Best to ignore him.

 

[Hi I'm Ray]

I appreciate advice if its good or points out something I didn't realize. I wouldn't give out any advice unless someone asks.

 

[Mike2228]

Say something unimposing like "Can I give you a tip?" If yes proceed if not say "alright".

Edit: I take this back. If there is an instructor there already let him do his thing.

 

[beernutz]

I think Dozu is just trolling. Best to ignore him.

Hilarious, I didn't realize luvforty was dozu reincarnated. I guess it is no surprize they're both in my Ignore List.

 

[mucat]

No, I think conversation would be better.

Sure, nothing wrong with that.

You can always converse about your oversized rackets, girls dig them...or so I heard...

 

[anubis]

I hit once in a while with a girl junior, she's about 14 or so. Her dad (her coach) likes her to experience hitting with adults once in a while, as the field is narrow for her to get good experience around other 14 year old girls. She's got a pretty wicked forehand, but her backhand is sporadic at best.

Her main problem is she doesn't move to the ball, she waits for it to come to her. She only has lateral movement, not forward/backward. So if it will drop at her feet, she just blindly swings and the ball goes out of the court.

However, I've held back from giving any of my advice to her and her dad, primarily because they never asked. They just want me to be an "active wall" and nothing more. Of course if he or she asked me for my advice, I'd happily give it. But most people do not like unsolicited advice.

Besides, I don't know the whole story. What if she's getting additional coaching elsewhere? I don't want to go beyond what she's comfortable with, and what her coach feels is appropriate for her level.


I understand the OP's personal battle with "do I help or not", it's not always easy. But if those other clinic participants are watching YOU hit the ball properly, far better than they are and that doesn't drive them to pipe up and say "hey, why are you so successful at this?" then perhaps they were never ready for the answer that you'd give anyway.

 

[Govnor]

I hit once in a while with a girl junior, she's about 14 or so. Her dad (her coach) likes her to experience hitting with adults once in a while, as the field is narrow for her to get good experience around other 14 year old girls. She's got a pretty wicked forehand, but her backhand is sporadic at best.

Her main problem is she doesn't move to the ball, she waits for it to come to her. She only has lateral movement, not forward/backward. So if it will drop at her feet, she just blindly swings and the ball goes out of the court.

However, I've held back from giving any of my advice to her and her dad, primarily because they never asked. They just want me to be an "active wall" and nothing more. Of course if he or she asked me for my advice, I'd happily give it. But most people do not like unsolicited advice.

Besides, I don't know the whole story. What if she's getting additional coaching elsewhere? I don't want to go beyond what she's comfortable with, and what her coach feels is appropriate for her level.


I understand the OP's personal battle with "do I help or not", it's not always easy. But if those other clinic participants are watching YOU hit the ball properly, far better than they are and that doesn't drive them to pipe up and say "hey, why are you so successful at this?" then perhaps they were never ready for the answer that you'd give anyway.

Well, after some reflection, I think the answer boils down to the fact that I take sports and athletic competition seriously, always have done. I know this is not the same for most, so I'll be comfortable with going on and not saying anything. No big deal.

On a some what related note, I think I may look for another class, I think I'm ******* off one or two people in this class because I'm playing to improve/win and I"m already the best player there, so I suspect I come off like a "big meanie" some of the time, when we're playing games.

 

[Overdrive]

You can always converse about your oversized rackets, girls dig them...or so I heard...

Uh... I don't play with OS racquets... :|

 

[Steady Eddy]

Why the unsolicited advice?

Last week in an effort to get some kind of exercise I started playing tennis again. My wife and I would hit for a half hour, and at first I was exhausted. Then I moved up to 40 minutes and then 50 minutes. I'm heavier than I used to be, and slower as well.

Yesterday I went to drop-in tennis and we didn't have enough for doubles. One of the players was an ex-college player who was very good. When we talked at the end, he singled me out and said, "You need lessons". Then he went on to talk about how I don't move enough, etc. Well, all of this is not news to me.

Today I kind of resent his "You need lessons" statement. Why do I need lessons? To get a college scholarship? (At my age). To be good enough for drop-in tennis, (I know I'm good enough for that). How can he know that an expenditure of $500 to $1000 on tennis is worth it to me?

However, I've held back from giving any of my advice to her and her dad, primarily because they never asked. They just want me to be an "active wall" and nothing more. Of course if he or she asked me for my advice, I'd happily give it. But most people do not like unsolicited advice.

As anubis says, if most people don't like unsolicited advice why would anyone old enough to know better do it? Is it because they want to be the alpha male? Is it a desire to dominate? Please don't say, "Well, they only want to help." because that is B.S.

 

[r2473]

Today I kind of resent his "You need lessons"

You also need to lose some weight

 

[SFrazeur]

Today I kind of resent his "You need lessons" statement. Why do I need lessons? To get a college scholarship? (At my age). To be good enough for drop-in tennis, (I know I'm good enough for that). How can he know that an expenditure of $500 to $1000 on tennis is worth it to me?

Perhaps he sees the potential underneath the rust from time off and only wishes to see you enjoy Tennis to your full potential. . .Or he's a ***** and thinks that you are not very good.

 

[tennis_ocd]

One of the players was an ex-college player who was very good. When we talked at the end, he singled me out and said, "You need lessons". Then he went on to talk about how I don't move enough, etc. Well, all of this is not news to me.

Everyone needs lessons; just for most money/reward becomes an issue. If he's an ex-great college player and you can suck free feedback and pointers out of him go for it.

 

[LakeSnake]

As anubis says, if most people don't like unsolicited advice why would anyone old enough to know better do it? Is it because they want to be the alpha male? Is it a desire to dominate? Please don't say, "Well, they only want to help." because that is B.S.

Some do it to feel better, some actually want to help. On Friday there was an older gentleman on the side advising my hitting partner on nutrition and some sort of health shake that apparently makes all the difference! Steady, where did you play? Kiwanis?

 

[ProgressoR]

Didn't you say it's cardio sessions?

If you took cardio that seriously in terms of being competitive I think most people would find that annoying

Just my view.

 

[Steady Eddy]

Some do it to feel better, some actually want to help. On Friday there was an older gentleman on the side advising my hitting partner on nutrition and some sort of health shake that apparently makes all the difference! Steady, where did you play? Kiwanis?

Well, I did today. It was for the first time in several years.

It lowered my blood pressure for the Dr.'s appt., it was 102/70! Last time I was 160/100. So it was productive and alot more fun than walking on a treadmill. So, I'll be back soon.

 

[kingcheetah]

I wouldn't give advice in someone else's clinic in almost any situation, just because it's stepping into the pro's territory and implying that they can't coach the other players. The only time I'll ever offer any advice is if someone directly asks me why I do something I do technically, or how I hit the ball a certain way

example: a woman that was used to playing 3.5 doubles asked me about the advantages of running around backhands to hit forehands... I gave a quick explanation of that, and told her that she could discuss implementing it into her game with the pro. I knew that she took weekly lessons with him, so I figured it was his decision whether or not this was a good aspect to add to this woman's game... he knews her abilities much better than I did.

 

[LakeSnake]

Well, I did today. It was for the first time in several years.

It lowered my blood pressure for the Dr.'s appt., it was 102/70! Last time I was 160/100. So it was productive and alot more fun than walking on a treadmill. So, I'll be back soon.

Playing at Kiwanis or that guy's health shake lowered your blood pressure?

 

[GuyClinch]

Unless you are friends with said player and hit with him in non-clinic settings you should keep quiet. The pro is being paid to offer his advice - and its likely better then yours anyway.

 

[GBplayer]

The OP said it was cardio tennis. Half the people at these classes I go to twice a week seem to have the back fence as their target. They don't even play tennis, just go for the workout. I do them for footwork. Many different takes on cardio tennis. The coach I go to does mainly footwork zigzaging in between cones and through ladders.

I have a 1 to 1 coaching session once a week. Probably a waste of money at my age I know. Why would I give out free advise to someone, even if they wanted it? What little I know has cost me a fortune to find out.

Unless they are older women of course.

 

[GoudX]

Last week in an effort to get some kind of exercise I started playing tennis again. My wife and I would hit for a half hour, and at first I was exhausted. Then I moved up to 40 minutes and then 50 minutes. I'm heavier than I used to be, and slower as well.

Yesterday I went to drop-in tennis and we didn't have enough for doubles. One of the players was an ex-college player who was very good. When we talked at the end, he singled me out and said, "You need lessons". Then he went on to talk about how I don't move enough, etc. Well, all of this is not news to me.

Today I kind of resent his "You need lessons" statement. Why do I need lessons? To get a college scholarship? (At my age). To be good enough for drop-in tennis, (I know I'm good enough for that). How can he know that an expenditure of $500 to $1000 on tennis is worth it to me?




As anubis says, if most people don't like unsolicited advice why would anyone old enough to know better do it? Is it because they want to be the alpha male? Is it a desire to dominate? Please don't say, "Well, they only want to help." because that is B.S.

The same way some players enjoy playing tennis, others enjoy teaching tennis, unfortunately some of the people who enjoy coaching who don't understand that not everyone wants their advise. Most of the time just acting uninterested will stop them, however politely telling them that you are not interested in their advise will nearly always be enough to shut them up.

Regarding lessons, I've found that if you can find a good coach that you can get good results with surprisingly few lessons. If you talk to the coach about what you want to achieve before the lesson begins, you can then put an entire hour working on a single element you want to improve (paying attention so that you don't need to learn the same thing again next lesson is very important). Next you put in a lot of hours on court away from your coach, focusing on perfect form rather than results, to really drill in the new elements of your game. Once you have that part of your game well drilled you THEN go back to the coach to introduce further elements. A few years ago I managed to turn my forehand from an inconsistent liability to a consistent weapon with about 5 lessons from a really good pro by really focusing on incorporating the changes before going back to the coach for more advice - I went from a 'beyond open' stance with a straight arm and poor leg drive, to an efficient semi-open double bend with more of a sit and lift motion.

 

[GBplayer]

Some people genuinely like helping others ( there are nice people ). Trouble is some people have no interest in improving, others would be mortified to be informed that they could improve, as they are already perfect. Some if they wish to improve they will seek advise.

We can all improve with lessons. More a case of if one is able to finance them, and then be willing to put in the effort to improve. It is hard work. I have seen people have lessons, then they carry on as before? Waste of time and money.

Having said that, I wouldn't advise going to cardio tennis to learn how to play. It is primarily a fitness class. Generally good fun.