It doesn't make sense, also because it's the same score.
San Diego 71 was reported at the beginning of this thread, I found the results of San Diego 70 on a website that was not particularly reliable.
And for this I asked for any confirmations.
Connors's special events
- Thread starter Carlo Giovanni Colussi
- Start date
San Diego 71 was reported at the beginning of this thread, I found the results of San Diego 70 on a website that was not particularly reliable.
And for this I asked for any confirmations.
I agree with you that this is not a big problem. I just have little doubts that other readers would understand what you mean and what you have included under your categories. Because you did a very good job.
Scott, sorry to turn you back to your post. I ask for some clarification:
1. You wrote about 3 losses but I see 2 - Newcombe and Pattison. I understand that the match vs Carmichael was a win for Connors.
2. What is your opinion about the number of matches for the statistics? Should the matches vs Case, Fletcher and Mottram be counted as 6 matches total or just 3 two-set matches? How is this explained in the book?
I confirm the 1970 scores.
It's obvious that the 1971 San Diego matches are a mistake, Jimmy didn't participate in the tournament, which therefore should be excluded from the calculation.
The error indicates as opponents Cripe and Tiball who were the opponents of the 1R of the tournaments held in South Bend and Los Angeles.
To tell the truth at the beginning in this thread it was reported that the tournament seems to have lasted from 9 to 14, in this case perhaps to get to the final Connors beat as well as Teacher and Austin at least one other player, or two.
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On the recommendation of Ivan, I try to identify TOURNAMENTS NOT-SANCTIONED ATP those that can be considered comparable challenger tournaments:
1969 :
Tulsa: CHALLENGER VALUE
Palm Springs: CHALLENGER VALUE
1970:
San Diego South Coast Championships (CA, USA) CHALLENGER VALUE
Ojai CHALLENGER VALUE
Los Angeles Southern California Championships NON-SANCTIONED but VALUE > CHALLENGER
Modesto CHALLENGER VALUE
Southampton CHALLENGER VALUE
1971:
Ojai CHALLENGER VALUE
South Bend CHALLENGER VALUE
Los Angeles Southern California Championships NON-SANCTIONED but VALUE > CHALLENGER
1972:
Ocean City CHALLENGER VALUE
From 1978 onwards ATP has created the famous category of lower level tournaments called "Challengers".The not-sanctioned tournaments played by Connors from 1978 onwards cannot be equalized with such tournaments because the value of the opponents has always been of high level. Before the advent of the Challenger circuit there are basically the ATP sanctioned and not-sanctioned tournaments. In not-sanctioned there are some fairly important tournaments (which for example can be compared to Masters 250 or in few cases Masters 500) but also tournaments like the current "challengers".
This division is only theoretical, I repeat, because it did not exist at that time.
I think it is correct to add among the "challengers"Kansas City 1973 and in Ocean City in 1972.
1969 :
Tulsa: CHALLENGER VALUE
Palm Springs: CHALLENGER VALUE
1970:
San Diego South Coast Championships (CA, USA) CHALLENGER VALUE
Ojai CHALLENGER VALUE
Los Angeles Southern California Championships NON-SANCTIONED but VALUE > CHALLENGER
Modesto CHALLENGER VALUE
Southampton CHALLENGER VALUE
1971:
Ojai CHALLENGER VALUE
South Bend CHALLENGER VALUE
Los Angeles Southern California Championships NON-SANCTIONED but VALUE > CHALLENGER
1972:
Ocean City CHALLENGER VALUE
From 1978 onwards ATP has created the famous category of lower level tournaments called "Challengers".The not-sanctioned tournaments played by Connors from 1978 onwards cannot be equalized with such tournaments because the value of the opponents has always been of high level. Before the advent of the Challenger circuit there are basically the ATP sanctioned and not-sanctioned tournaments. In not-sanctioned there are some fairly important tournaments (which for example can be compared to Masters 250 or in few cases Masters 500) but also tournaments like the current "challengers".
This division is only theoretical, I repeat, because it did not exist at that time.
I think it is correct to add among the "challengers"
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Yeah, I think that's the list. We will wait only if somebody can confirm or deny the existing of San Diego 71. You are right that it seems so and so - name and dates are shown but missing scores and the final score look doubtful.
And it took 5 years for that to happen....injuries, crisis of confidence, some tight losses along the way
Kansas 71? What matches of Jimmy do you have there? Anyway for me it's not chall. type. Richey, Graebner, Lutz, Ashe played there in 70 or 71.
In 73 when Conn. played also Drysdale and Roche were there.
Ocean city - I agree. Weak draw.
I thank you for reporting. I honestly assumed it was a bad event but I hadn't found any news about it.
It's wrong even the year.
Reflection 1
2000 games played in career: in short, the extract of this is the thread.
I don't care and it's not my intention to make comparisons with old myths (Rosewall, Pancho, Laver ...) or the currents Big 3.
What really matters to me is to watch twenty years of tennis by focusing on a player. By studying JC in detail, all the greats of that period are better discovered, from Nastase and Rosewall to Agassi and Becker, the veil is literally torn apart in the 70s and 80s, and all secondary players are analyzed.
Of the almost 2000 total matches of JC 1556, 80.50% ATP were sanctioned.
This means that 19.50% of the total matches played is not ATP. Basically 1 match out of 5.
A fifth of his career is "hidden".
The american has played against all the other main players of non-ATP events (tournaments or exhibition matches), so it is easy to say that almost all the best players (from McEnroe to Nastase, from Borg to Lendl), and all the others have a "hidden" career. "
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It's always better when we know about the full careers of the top players. A very few people care about that. Most of the fans look only at the ATP data which is bad. Jimbo was a big tennis machine and he deserves to be observed fully.
The so called by you "hidden" career was a casual practice for many players in the 70s and 80s. So it should be a part of the careers not only ATP.
Good job.
Reflection 3
The percentage of win matches over the total "overall" is 80.96% while the percentage of win matches over the total ATP is higher (81.88%).
They are similar but it follows that for JC it was slightly easier to win matches in ATP tournaments than in not-sanctioned (78.14%)
While it was much more difficult to win in the exhibition matches (72.50%)
This is due to the fact that in the early rounds of ATP JC tournaments (and all the best ones) they face much lower players while in not-sanctioned tournaments (especially in RR tournaments or 4draws) this does not occur.
In exhibitions this is almost impossible (in fact of all the 80 exhibitions only one is won by a relatively easy opponent, Hank Pfister in 1979).
The percentage of win matches over the total "overall" is 80.96% while the percentage of win matches over the total ATP is higher (81.88%).
They are similar but it follows that for JC it was slightly easier to win matches in ATP tournaments than in not-sanctioned (78.14%)
While it was much more difficult to win in the exhibition matches (72.50%)
This is due to the fact that in the early rounds of ATP JC tournaments (and all the best ones) they face much lower players while in not-sanctioned tournaments (especially in RR tournaments or 4draws) this does not occur.
In exhibitions this is almost impossible (in fact of all the 80 exhibitions only one is won by a relatively easy opponent, Hank Pfister in 1979).
Yep. Correct conclusions. That's the main reason why the non-sanctioned are so important.
Connors at 1261 on ATP.
And counting....
Reflection 4
In the first career period (1969-1972) JC plays
- many Under18 tournaments (which are not considered in the discussion),
- many Intercollegiate (some of these are reported but not in the final calculation because the data are incomplete) and
- some tournaments with similar characteristics to current challengers, who fall under the not-sanctioned because there was no sub-classification at the time like now.
In the first career period (1969-1972) JC plays
- many Under18 tournaments (which are not considered in the discussion),
- many Intercollegiate (some of these are reported but not in the final calculation because the data are incomplete) and
- some tournaments with similar characteristics to current challengers, who fall under the not-sanctioned because there was no sub-classification at the time like now.
Big work. Especially the RR matches of the Challenge Cup, a great WCT special event held in 1976 with the 1977 final, which had been lost.
It's not lost.
It's in 1977.
We put the RR and the SFs in dec 1976 (as they were) and the final in Apr 77 (as it was)
ATP CONNORSAnd as NoMercy said a while ago, Connors is now at 1274-282.
NoMercy is.... inevitable
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And as NoMercy said a while ago, Connors is now at 1274-282.
NoMercy is.... inevitable
Hi NoMercy, do you know if the ATP is going to keep updating W/L for another players, like McEnroe and his 3rd places in Pepsi Grand Slam of 1979 and 1980?
Yes, all the 3rd place finals will be included.
WCT finals, Masters, Pepsi, US open 1972,...
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
It should be.A 'bronze' final in a major?
Us open 1972 was kinda weird, with a draw148 too
And what about the "R256" of US Open 1972?, will they add the R1 match of Borg for that tournament. The same question for RG 68 and 72? The last one with a peculiar draw jeje
Yes.
About RG72 we have to think how to do it because a bye vs bye is not allowed!
Here is your solution https://www.atptour.com/en/players/bye2/000/player-stats
But it’s a player.
It will add w/l and also we would need many of them to fill the draw.
I am sorry but the only sources I found are on page 5 (INDEPENDENCE EXAMINER ARCHIVE Sept. 17, 1990) ; I will try to search again.
ok, thanks, don't worry. I asked only if you have something.
Draw8, played in Stanford and not in Palo Alto. Connors in the draw.
So Jimmy won two matches, not just v McPhie.
McPhie? Who was ... a student?
Ooops Brian MacPhie... 1972, Turned Pro in 1993 (ATP Site).
Poor singularist but top 50 in doubles.
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You are right, he won two matches.So Jimmy won two matches, not just v McPhie.
McPhie? Who is ... a student?
[QUOTE = "Ivan69, post: 13118930, membre: 746244"]
J'ai ce match et l'ai mentionné à peine dans le post 202. Merci pour la présence. Ce nombre est vraiment énorme pour un exo.
[/CITATION]
bonjour Ivan 69 have you matche exhibition Seattle 81 macneroe /connors challenge matche vidéo thank you nono
J'ai ce match et l'ai mentionné à peine dans le post 202. Merci pour la présence. Ce nombre est vraiment énorme pour un exo.
[/CITATION]
bonjour Ivan 69 have you matche exhibition Seattle 81 macneroe /connors challenge matche vidéo thank you nono
They played in Frankfurt in 1979. I don't know if they played there also in 1980.
Good finding! Surprising for me is that Gomez lifted a trophy in an exo !!!
Hahaha, it was a mythical exho for the nation of Gomez.
I saw that the great challenge was featured in two Ecuadorian newspapers. With large photos and front pages.
An event.
It should have been a national holiday. I am not sure if any tennis tournaments were held in Ecuador in that times.
DENVER NEWS
Last days of The Palace: The arena's biggest sports and entertainment moments
Adam Graham The Detroit News
Published 9:59 AM EDT Aug 13, 2020
It was 32 years ago this month that the Palace of Auburn Hills opened its doors, beginning a nearly three-decade reign as Metro Detroit's premier sporting and concert facility.
The building, or what was left of it, came down in a controlled demolition last month, an overdue epilogue to a story whose final chapter was written in 2017, when the stately building along I-75 held its final event.
Over the years, the Palace hosted thousands of events: basketball games, concerts, circuses, ice shows, soccer matches, sporting exhibitions, motocross rallies, bridal shows. New Kids on the Block played there, so did *NSYNC, so did Backstreet Boys, so did One Direction. Everybody who was everybody played the Palace.
And now it's gone. An empty lot sits where the building once stood, but the stories from inside the Palace will last forever. Here's a look back at some of the biggest stories of the arena's royal reign.
..............................
.............................
Aces: A crowd of 16,011 attended the Palace's first tennis match, an exhibition between Jimmy Connors and Andre Agassi on Sept. 13, 1988. Five days earlier, Agassi had beaten Connors at the U.S. Open in New York, but Connors whipped some sense into his younger opponent, winning 7-6 (8-6), 6-3. "He really surprised me. I didn't think he had that much in him," Agassi said after the match. "He's by far one of the greatest players to have ever been."
I've seen rare images of exos in South America in the 70's and 80's and the impression is always the same: enthusiasm.
The people who attack the players at the end of the game, security service to a minimum, looks like a village party.
Tennis was very popular in South Am. but for some reason they didn't organize major tournaments.
The champions went to Rio, Buenos Aires, and other big cities just for an exhibition or a tour of two or three 4-men events.
Scott_tennis
Rookie
I found two 1981 matches which may not have been previously listed in this thread
Thursday July 16 1981
Fort Worth, TX
Bear Creek Tennis and Racquet Club
Connors d Stan Smith 75 64
Friday July 17 1981
Atlanta, GA
The OMNI arena
Connors d John Sadri 67 64 64
KG - As you have compiled many exhibition results for Connors in posts on this thread.....have you compiled all the matches into one overall listing or spreadsheet?
Thursday July 16 1981
Fort Worth, TX
Bear Creek Tennis and Racquet Club
Connors d Stan Smith 75 64
Friday July 17 1981
Atlanta, GA
The OMNI arena
Connors d John Sadri 67 64 64
KG - As you have compiled many exhibition results for Connors in posts on this thread.....have you compiled all the matches into one overall listing or spreadsheet?
I think that Smith match may have been on ESPN. I distinctly remember watching a Connors/Smith exhibition that year. Don't remember the location, though, other than it was in the US and Connors won.. If they played more than one match, maybe it wasn't the match listed here.
No unfortunately no. I'm sorry, Scott.
Everything I found I wrote here, I have not reported anywhere else.
Thanks for the great information you gave us.
Implementing this thread I believe is very important for tennis fans, not only because it is about Connors, but it is about a piece of history.
20 year long.
