Continental forehand

[Golden Retriever]

I am absolutely depressed about my SW forehand, it is the weakest link of my game. I was playing this pusher yesterday and again my forehand failed me big time. This guy was acting like a jerk and apologized to me everytime I shanked my forehand. Hey pal, I shank my forehand because of me not you!! I got so mad that I changed my forehand completely from SW to continental and started pushing and slicing all my forehands. Well, as you would have guessed by now, I absolutely dominated that guy and shut him up for good.

For my mental health I guess I have to give up my SW forehand and go continental. I won't let any pusher win with a smirk on his face just because he can throw junks to my forehand side. With a continental at least I won't have to worry about shanking my forehand. Believe it or not, the slice forehand with a continental is my most reliable shot and the topspin forehand with a SW is my worst shot.

Anyways, my question is, since I am going to continental for sure, I would like to add more varieties to it. Right now I can slice unbelievably well with the continental forehand but how about topspin or flat? Can I hit topspin with pace using a continental forehand? Should I retun serve with a continental forehand? Any advices would be appreciated.

 

[Slazenger]

My advice would be to ditch the continental forehand altogether. Work out why your SW is breaking down and fix that. It's a much better grip for topspin or flat BHs than the continental is.

 

[nViATi]

If you want something similar to a continental but still want to hit with topspin use an Eastern.

 

[jtan]

Anyways, my question is, since I am going to continental for sure, I would like to add more varieties to it. Right now I can slice unbelievably well with the continental forehand but how about topspin or flat? Can I hit topspin with pace using a continental forehand? Should I retun serve with a continental forehand? Any advices would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]

-----------------

Mcenroe makes it work in his 40s with his modified continental. He hits topspin and flat.

 

[Slazenger]

Mcenroe makes it work in his 40s with his modified continental. He hits topspin and flat.

McEnroe is also one of the best volleyers in the world. His net game and serve make up for his forehand.

 

[paulfreda]

No, do not give up in your SW
For now, play matches with Cont if it makes you feel better.
I understand this. In my first year of play I did not trust my Eastern and found cutiing it back gave me the consistency to win matches. But I knew I had to learn more to get better.
Consider this ..... the last great Continental FH was probably Fred Perry's in the 30's. Back then almost everything was on grass. Very low balls on grass and a Cont is the perfect grip. But not now.

To hit a Cont FH well, it helps to hit it with a closed stance, hit it flat, pronate (come over the ball) and hit it late near your back hip. High balls must be sliced. Topspin is not easy to create and you are best to not try it. Get to a wall and bang away to learn for yourself.

Then get a pro to help you with your SWFH grip problems.

Cheers ...

 

[jtan]

McEnroe is also one of the best volleyers in the world. His net game and serve make up for his forehand.

--------------

True. Like anything else it is give something to take something. If you know with a continental forehand where the racket face is oriented - I would work off that rather than killing yourself to do something that isn't natural (for you).

As for making up ... everything is relative is it not? At the very end of his (1st) ATP career, it wasn't his forehand giving way but his serve.

 

[highsierra]

If you want to go with a continential forehand, you need to change your style of play to more of a S&V, there's no way a contentical grip can match any other grip from the baseline when you go above 3.0. You can't slice every ball off your forehand from the baseline at a higher level, and I can't imagine a continental grip can match top spins rallies with any other grips at, say 4.0 level.

 

[chess9]

I regularly play a 6.0 player (ex-Div I) and he uses a Continental forehand. He spins the ball all the time with a little wrist flick, but most of his shots are flat, fast, and IN.

He cuts his one-handed backhand too.

Of course, when he serves, the earth moves. He's hit me more times than I care to count.

-Robert

 

[Pomeranian]

It's not that difficult if you practice the topspin forehand. I knew a player who only sliced at first then was willing to learn his topspin groundstrokes. Now he has great defensive shots and able to hit agressively too.

 

[Golden Retriever]

If you want to go with a continential forehand, you need to change your style of play to more of a S&V, there's no way a contentical grip can match any other grip from the baseline when you go above 3.0. You can't slice every ball off your forehand from the baseline at a higher level, and I can't imagine a continental grip can match top spins rallies with any other grips at, say 4.0 level.

I think Mc Enroe can trade forehands with any 7.0 from the baseline. Maybe he can't win from the baseline but at least he should be able to rally a few.

 

[Golden Retriever]

--------------

True. Like anything else it is give something to take something. If you know with a continental forehand where the racket face is oriented - I would work off that rather than killing yourself to do something that isn't natural (for you).

As for making up ... everything is relative is it not? At the very end of his (1st) ATP career, it wasn't his forehand giving way but his serve.

Thanks for being my sole supporter here.

 

[siber222000]

because i used continental forehand, i kinda screwed up my wrist lol, but thats just me

 

[wyutani]

because i used continental forehand, i kinda screwed up my wrist lol, but thats just me

use a wrist band mate'...

 

[jtan]

Thanks for being my sole supporter here.

----------
It's a matter of (coaching) philosophy ... I am not a tennis coach but would you have told barkley not to play inside because of he's 'only' 6'4"? Or connors (at that time) to not use a 2 handed bhand? Or monica seles 2 handed 4hand? You need to use what is comfortable and natural - then build it into a strength.

I don't think anyone here would mind having mcenroe's 4hand. Or Sampras' reverse. (Which is a debatable continental/eastern). Or Rios approach shots... Not everyone fits into a mold. And you are right ... mcenroe can trade 4hands all day. He has changed his game. The equipment changes have made the continental 4hand weakness illogical IMO. You should write NBM or Bart (who used to advocate the 4hand slice). I've always been impressed by their advice and demeanor.

best regards,
JTan

 

[Andres]

A wrist band doesn't prevent an wrist injury.
Perhaps a wrist brace, but neither.

 

[Golden Retriever]

----------
It's a matter of (coaching) philosophy ... I am not a tennis coach but would you have told barkley not to play inside because of he's 'only' 6'4"? Or connors (at that time) to not use a 2 handed bhand? Or monica seles 2 handed 4hand? You need to use what is comfortable and natural - then build it into a strength.

I don't think anyone here would mind having mcenroe's 4hand. Or Sampras' reverse. (Which is a debatable continental/eastern). Or Rios approach shots... Not everyone fits into a mold. And you are right ... mcenroe can trade 4hands all day. He has changed his game. The equipment changes have made the continental 4hand weakness illogical IMO. You should write NBM or Bart (who used to advocate the 4hand slice). I've always been impressed by their advice and demeanor.

best regards,
JTan

Bravo, couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[EliteNinja]

John McEnroe uses SW now on forehand.

I'm the opposite of you, I use a SW grip and want to learn to flatten the ball out with continental. I don't think I really need to, but it would be fun for variety. I can actually hit forehand slices with SW, but only on high balls.

 

[Golden Retriever]

John McEnroe uses SW now on forehand.

I'm the opposite of you, I use a SW grip and want to learn to flatten the ball out with continental. I don't think I really need to, but it would be fun for variety. I can actually hit forehand slices with SW, but only on high balls.

Johnny Mac uses SW now? Any pics?

 

[astra]

GRetriever, the best grip is the one you feel the smoothest plow through at playing with. I suppose it is the grip you play now. Find all possibilities to fix your forehand with the actual grip (minor grip/technics changes). I do not think a radical grip change will bring you a long time success. Remember, also for a grip change the honeymoon effect is valid.
Anyway, if you try the continetal meantime, it can help you to become all-round. The skilled continental grip may help you at dropshots put aways, bh/fh slices, volleys.

 

[NoBadMojo]

----------
It's a matter of (coaching) philosophy . The equipment changes have made the continental 4hand weakness illogical IMO. You should write NBM or Bart (who used to advocate the 4hand slice). I've always been impressed by their advice and demeanor.

best regards,
JTan

Thanks for the good word. back in the days of wood when we earned to play tennis, many of us used one grip for everything....the Contnental. You can hit any shot imagineable w. a Continental grip including forehand topspin lobs..However you need a strong wrist and the margin of error in hitting topspin forehands with a continental is greater as you are required to use more wrist (smaller muscles/tendons like wrists are less powerful muscles and dont react as consistently reliable as larger muscles) so i really dont recommend the continental grip for forehands other than forehand volleys, squash recovery shots, return of serve on ocassion, and sliced approach shots. You can keep that grip in your arsenal, but your basic forehand ralley grip should be at least as strong as an eastern I believe. You can use your learning the grips to your advantage now as many better players vary their forehand grip based upon what kind of ball they are presented with and what kind of shot they wish to shape...i use a number of forehand grips instinctively now varyng from continental to SW. Suggest that if you are too erratic w. the SW start using the Eastern as your basic ralley grip and incorporate the contnental in for those specialty shots

 

[jtan]

http://www.advantage-tennis.com/mcenroe/index.php?ind=22

It is definitely NOT a pure continental. However, I did read an interview a few years ago that he still used just one grip. I do believe however, that anyone would have variations of any grip ... ala edberg or mcenroe.

NBM I have a question for you: I always wondered? With the grips based on the base knuckle of the index finger ... isn't it a bit misleading? A larger grip size and you call the hand continental - a smaller grip size and it becomes eastern ... what's your take on this?

 

[NoBadMojo]

jtan i think i see what you are saying but i cant see how gripsize would affect things other than being too large or two small...shouldnt the relative hand positions be the same regardless of the gripsize?
I prefer to teach grips based upon the location of the V between thumb and forefinger...that area makes direct contact w. the grip and your base knuckle does not so you kind of have to draw a mental angle estimation as to how your hand is positioned.

 

[TennisParent]

Golden Retriever, On the Testimonials section of TennisTim's website Tennisgeometrics.com, there is an interesting story from a customer of his named Peter who claims he had outstanding results from switching over to a continental fh grip using the the PVG device. TennisTim may have more background info, and I'm sure he would be glad to elaborate, but the person claimed excellent results. I don't use c grip on my fh personally, but who knows, it might work for you! Good luck.

 

[jtan]

jtan i think i see what you are saying but i cant see how gripsize would affect things other than being too large or two small...shouldnt the relative hand positions be the same regardless of the gripsize?
I prefer to teach grips based upon the location of the V between thumb and forefinger...that area makes direct contact w. the grip and your base knuckle does not so you kind of have to draw a mental angle estimation as to how your hand is positioned.

-------------

I never thought of it that way ... different shots have different points of contact on the hand (for me) even though I am holding a single grip ... and so a new grip size or shape would cause problems because the points of contact would change - I like how you immediately pointed out that smaller muscles are less consistent (specially when you are tired or weaker) - exactly my problem ... an interesting take from an a master teacher ... So when you change forehands - is it that you change your hand around the grip or do you move the racket face (with the off hand) and the hand (shape) changes as a result?

 

[glass]

If it feels good, work with it. If you get that flat continental forehan going, you'll give the young guns fits. No one likes a skidding ball.

 

[NoBadMojo]

-------------

I never thought of it that way ... different shots have different points of contact on the hand (for me) even though I am holding a single grip ... and so a new grip size or shape would cause problems because the points of contact would change - I like how you immediately pointed out that smaller muscles are less consistent (specially when you are tired or weaker) - exactly my problem ... an interesting take from an a master teacher ... So when you change forehands - is it that you change your hand around the grip or do you move the racket face (with the off hand) and the hand (shape) changes as a result?

best for most to use your off hand to change your grip on the takeback. done right the off hand can also serve to get your shoulder turned

 

[highsierra]

I think Mc Enroe can trade forehands with any 7.0 from the baseline. Maybe he can't win from the baseline but at least he should be able to rally a few.

Yes he definitely could, but let's see, he was practicing that forehand for hours a day, 7 days a week, for many years. Yet as you agreed, he couldn't win from the baseline. Let's look at recreational players, who typically play a couple of times a week. So yeah eventually you can trade some serious forehand shots but what's the likehood you can win the rallies consistently with someone at your level (If you could actually have Mc's forehand to play a 3.0/4/0 level player then of course there's no comparison )? There's a reason that whether it's at the pro or recretaional level, most baseliners have anything other than a continental forehand. There're occational success stories but those guys probably started with continental forehand from baseline and have played that way for many years. The odds that you can hit convincing C forehand spin shots are not good given that it's not the natural arm movement for top spin (and for that matter not even the best for flat shot from baseline).

I actually play with a guy who has very good slice from forehand (continental grip) but any other shot from his forehand is horrible. The problem I can easily see is that his swing path is totally wrong when he tries to hit a spin or flat shot. Maybe you can have a teaching pro check you out or simply video tape your own SW forehand. It might be easier to fix your SW grip for spin shots than to learn it with C grip.

 

[jtan]

best for most to use your off hand to change your grip on the takeback. done right the off hand can also serve to get your shoulder turned

-----

I get it. I always wondered why Mcenroe held his racket on the off hand just above the grip instead of (touching) the strings. Thanks for your help.

 

[highsierra]

-----

I get it. I always wondered why Mcenroe held his racket on the off hand just above the grip instead of (touching) the strings. Thanks for your help.

I believe most teaching pros would tell you that in between shots you should hold your rackets with both hands, like when you prepare for returning a serve, with your off hand holding it very loosely. Right after the opponent hits the ball and you split step, your off hand should help initiate the back swing motion.

 

[JediMindTrick]

I think continental is the best grip for returning first serves.

 

[nViATi]

I think continental is the best grip for returning first serves.

Well maybe if you just want to slice them back. What about if you want to attack? Not everybody has a huge serve.

 

[jtan]

I believe most teaching pros would tell you that in between shots you should hold your rackets with both hands, like when you prepare for returning a serve, with your off hand holding it very loosely. Right after the opponent hits the ball and you split step, your off hand should help initiate the back swing motion.

-----

Not all backswings are born equal. There has to be a way of storing the force and 'letting it go'. It makes sense to me that the diff pros have diff ways to store this force and then 'aim' it. So the placements of their bodies in the beginning is very impt.

I like mcenroe because he is from my time. NBM's advice tells you WHY you hold the racket with both hands.

It's true Mcenroe practices 7 days a week but then so does everyone else at his level? I think there is something to be learned if he can compete at this age. We should be figuring out 'why' or 'how' ??? It could be as simple as he is not really using a true continental? If he can hang (with all the other fhands being supposedly so much better) at his age there is something to be examined there I think. His reflexes have got to have slowed down already right? The leg speed isn't quite there anymore -- but basically he can still do it. This is what I think: His technique (or Jimmy Connors for that matter) is so much more efficient than the other guys that besides natural gifts - it still allows him to do what he does.

Guys - it's been fun. But I'm signing off this thread. Best regards to all.

 

[JediMindTrick]

Well maybe if you just want to slice them back. What about if you want to attack? Not everybody has a huge serve.

When i said first serves i meant hard first serves. You barely have time to make contact so you can't realy attack them and switching grips is only going to slow you down. I like continental because you can return it on either side without switching grips. You don't have to slice it, you can just block it back and you get a nice flat and deep return.

Of course if the first serve is not that hard than you should return it like a second serve. But the guys that I play with always hit bombs on first serves. Most of them go out but once in a while one will go in so I always wait with the continental grip on first serves.

 

[Tim Tennis]

Golden Retriever, On the Testimonials section of TennisTim's website Tennisgeometrics.com, there is an interesting story from a customer of his named Peter who claims he had outstanding results from switching over to a continental fh grip using the the PVG device. TennisTim may have more background info, and I'm sure he would be glad to elaborate, but the person claimed excellent results. I don't use c grip on my fh personally, but who knows, it might work for you! Good luck.

I remember Peter, great guy. I actually tried to talk him out of using the Continental grip. We exchanged lots of E-mails. I am a big fan of the SW grip but the Continental grip seemed to really work for him. The PVG aka Wonder Wedge is great for the Continental grip and the SW. I think with the SW grip your hand is just in a much stronger position to support the racquet for a low to high topspin swing. I would love to see Peter play. Some of the teaching pros he works with said he could have gone pro. It must be nice.

 

[TennisParent]

I remember Peter, great guy. I actually tried to talk him out of using the Continental grip. We exchanged lots of E-mails. I am a big fan of the SW grip but the Continental grip seemed to really work for him. The PVG aka Wonder Wedge is great for the Continental grip and the SW. I think with the SW grip your hand is just in a much stronger position to support the racquet for a low to high topspin swing. I would love to see Peter play. Some of the teaching pros he works with said he could have gone pro. It must be nice.

Hi Ed, Did I call you TennisTim? Ooops, sorry. That was an interesting comment he had about his pro Chris Mayotte (I believe Tim Mayottes brother) believing he should stick with c grip because his hand was different-not sure I understand that. With PVG you can hit better c forehands than without it, I have experimented a bit with using c grip for returns and to pick up lower bouncing balls and you can play effectively with this grip. Not sure if most people should use it over sw or efh grip though.

 

[TREX]

Man I can relate. I had always hit with an eastern

but somehow reverted to a continental in a match. I could kill the ball with an Eaastern grip in practice but lost it under pressure.

Enter the Power WEDGE. I tried the SW grip after getting the power wedge. It took me almost 2 weeks to get it. The Wedge helped me locate where my palm should be on the racuet. Result is getting used to SW and Forehand look forward to takin it to the matches.

Having said that an eastern will allow you to hit both Slice and topspin. Have you tried preparing earlier? Sounds like you may be hitting the ball late and not far enough out front.

 

[Tim Tennis]

Power -V- Grip

Power -V- Grip, Power -V- Grip, Power -V- Grip, Power -V- Grip. TREX, You can call it whatever you want. I still call it the Wonder Wedge all the time myself. Thanks for your support. I think you and Tennis Parent have a lot in common concerning how the PVG has affected your game and grip awareness. Once your progress/improvement stops, experimentng and mastering other grips can take your game to a whole new level, open up a whole new awareness. Like TennisMastery says it is a shame so many people get stuck on the lower levels of play. It is all in the grip.

http://www.tennisgeometrics.com

 

[Rep. Timothy Calhoun]

I think continental is the best grip for returning first serves.

I suppose. I hold a continental grip in the ready position (I think that is textbook too). Since the first serve is fast, I can see why you would use it. Also, it's a good volley grip and a lot of times you can only block back a first serve, so it's good for solid blocks.