tim-ay
Legend
I have less than zero interest in it. But probs more to my OHBH than anything.
Diary of a Racketaholic
- Thread starter Ross K
- Start date
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
I've never returned isner's, but 120, yes, that's not impossible to return with a 323 ish SW, I think most of us have done that, no problem.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
so you admit you have no idea what the stability of the PAVS is like at the Alcaraz spec since you have never hit with the frame.
tim-ay
Legend
Yep. And I also admit that I won’t. Ha. Whatever. Just seems hard to believe he’s hitting low 320’s. But anything is possible.
tim-ay
Legend
330 feels a whole lot better tho. And 340 even better. That’s the point. Doing it and doing it match after match, that’s why we all are questioning it.
topspn
Legend
No, i readily admit i haven't or any racquet for that matter against the top ten in the world. Oh, or top 20, 50, 100 eerm 500 in the world or even close.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
my coach who was a former top 500 player used a stock MG Prestige MP and played futures/challengers.
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mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
Not sure but it's possible 16g RPM blast might add more than 30 pts of SW. if it adds up to 35 pts, his SW would be closer to 328.
topspn
Legend
Sorry no way I am buying that. It is physics for me and that level cannot play a stock PAVS as the bab rep would like to advertise. If ZUS himself descended to earth and claimed the stock thing, I am still gonna be laughing as i walk away.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Well, ok, maybe? I mean most near the top of pro level players are playing SW of 310-325, none are going 330 or 340. Unmodified Blade, in my opinion, is the most popular stick for college kids and UTR 10 plus. Pro players definitely go 330-340, but that's why I mentioned maybe Carlos just moved up so fast he didn't switch from what he played around 17-18 years old.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
But you do know almost all division 1 players don't add weight, neither do UTR 10 plus tourney players on their way to division 1, right? Top 500 isn't that far from top top top division 1.
tim-ay
Legend
Er… I was talking strung SW. as we were with 323 Carlos.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
I was also discussing strung SW.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
i know you're a great guy and all, but in this case, i trust my former coach over you.
danbrenner
Legend
So the mg pres mp is 12.2 oz strung. so that makes perfect sense. but the pavs is 11.3 different animal. he must have some weight put onto this thing. seems like that info is not yet readily avail by many sources. however josh from babo claims that hes basically at stock. just seems hard to believe. not impossible. just hard .. ive used it before albeit for a few games only. and it played the way its specs sound. like it needed some weight n the hoop. so at stock weight playing against the hardest hitters in the world, i would just need a second solid opinion to believe that. i would assume hes got 8g of lead spread out wherever on the frame. at the very least. well see as time goes on. either way his specs are his spcs. and i for one would NOT base my stick on his specs. but only on my feel and needs. but the nerds in us need to know what hes using. lol
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
Actually the MG prestige mp is 11.8 oz strung. And you're right, the PAVS is a different animal. it's stiffer, more powerful and more stable in stock form than a stock MP prestige mp.
danbrenner
Legend
Actually the MG prestige mp is 11.8 oz strung. And you're right, the PAVS is a different animal. it's stiffer, more powerful and more stable in stock form than a stock MP prestige mp.
Racquet Specs |
|
This racquet at first felt somewhat foreign, like most tour racquets for me, and it took some time to become accustomed to its heavy, (over 12oz strung) weight. On contact, on both the forehand and the backhand, the frame offers supreme control and requires more head speed than usually needed. My game was somewhat constrained by the heavy weight, but my placement was improved . I had to adopt a more consistent mind-set, rather than an overwhelming, Agassi type style, to take full advantage of this racquet. Moving my grip from a semi-western to a western seemed more practical and made it easier to handle the frame. Both my strokes, forehand and backhand, became beautiful weapons during my trial matches. I have to admit, my first volley was shanked into the net. (Of course it had nothing to do with the user of the racket!) Like the ground strokes, I needed a couple shots to become used to the feel, but as soon as I did, I was pretty much serve-and-volleying. I found that hitting dump volleys with an extreme amount of backspin became easy. I also noticed that you might need a little more punch than usual for deep volleys, but you’ll have a much more solid feel at the net with the solid frame. I found it to be much more versatile and maneuverable than I thought it would be with the thin-beam frame. While returning the serve well, I did not hit winners; I was able to se tup points and pretty much dominate service games. Let us just say that I broke my opponent’s service games quite often. (I was playing a junior with a sprained ankle at the time.) I noticed that this racquet performed very exceptionally on serve return- both on hard, flat serves and on high spin/kick serves. I would consider the serve return and the groundstroke capabilities to be the strength of this frame.. While hitting serves, this racquet was a little hard to swing compared to the average racquet out on the market today. But it does play like a great player’s racquet. I had to swing faster than normal and chose, like pretty much the rest of the game, to use more spin than usual. Honestly, the serve was not my strong point, but still was effective. I was able to use spin to kick serves out wide to open up the court for an easy winner following the return. Overall, this racquet took away a little from my game, but enabled me to use even more spin. This racquet performed well and is a great racquet for tournament players. The MicroGel technology makes the frame more stable, allowing players to have even more control and placement opportunities. This racquet will most likely become advanced players favorite frame in their bag. |
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
i don't recall the MP being 93". perhaps it was.
topspn
Legend
By all means, I am sure your coach is terrific. I, you or anyone on this board has no real tangible understanding of the needs of that level from any experience. We just have simple physics of F=MxA and if we ever played a player who was a few steps higher than us how that felt.i know you're a great guy and all, but in this case, i trust my former coach over you.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
That's the main disconnect on adding weight to stock sticks. So many college players use stock pure aeros, pure drives, ezones, and blades, they hit high level balls and return the same level of high level balls, much higher than most people I would assume are encountering in rec tennis. I will make a bad assumption most people who are discussing rackets here aren't division 1 players, don't face heavy balls hit by division 1 players, but might aspire to be that good if they could. An even larger leap would be to aspire to play professional and face those shots where maybe the extra weight is absolutely necessary.
So, when a rec player takes a pure aero out to play, what makes them think, hmm, it needs more weight? Just feel I assume, because too many players who have more skills than all of us are winning against players better than us with stock rackets.
I'm not sure how accurate these are, and I'm sure it's been posted here before, but it is interesing: https://impactingtennis.com/pro_tour/pro-player-specs/
How about Carlos Moya with the 320g racquet that has a 408 SW???
How about Carlos Moya with the 320g racquet that has a 408 SW???
tim-ay
Legend
And you think none are going 330-340? You can’t be saying that
JGads
G.O.A.T.
I met the Official awhile back (stellar dude) and he shared some info with me about another Bab player that was true, and have no reason to believe he’d be making this up either. Apparently the Vs has a high twistweight so stability should be there. And if you have epic timing and physicality and meet a ball out in front you can still send it back with interest with a toothpick. Alcaraz has insane RHS and timing and the energy of youth, and I’m believing he’s doing this with a light SW. doesn’t really matter to me if this is proven wrong in the future, just saying I’m buying it as many pros are going lighter and lighter and one can if the the frame recipe is right. Yesterday, in fact, I was facing a serve that was absolutely triple digits. Best serve I’ve ever faced I think, and even said server said afterward that he wasn’t used to someone getting back his flat heaters without issue as I was doing, which is why he changed up and adding crazy spin on the ball in addition to heat (and that’s when I often failed). And I was returning these missiles with a Prestige 95 with a 292sw. I can see how Alcaraz, with a tennis talent I cannot even dream about it’s so far away, can actually wield a light SW frame with some meat to it. I would also argue that a lighter SW/added RHS may also be the very reason why his kick serve is so good and effective it’s essentially his go-to because it gives people even like Djoker so much trouble.
anyway, who knows. I’ll just be in awe of the magician, no matter the wand.
** Oh, and that hellacious serve I was facing, which I will continue to have nightmares about, was coming from the PS Vs. Hilariously.
anyway, who knows. I’ll just be in awe of the magician, no matter the wand.
** Oh, and that hellacious serve I was facing, which I will continue to have nightmares about, was coming from the PS Vs. Hilariously.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
I think you quoted yourself, which made it seem you were arguing with yourself
. Hence the "M" edit. Anyway, if you were trying to quote me, yes, I know plenty of pros are using SW 340, but wait until more and more of these young guys come up, the SW are going to drop way way way below even what some silly 4.0 player are using with weight added at 3 and 9 and 12, and 10...and the handle lol.
tim-ay
Legend
We’ll see. But I doubt it be the majority. I guess in 10 years we can check.I think you quoted yourself, which made it seem you were arguing with yourself
and 330 isn’t heavy. Unless one is a candy ***. Haha. But I agree there will be less going to 360.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Very well said, if you combine this with some of the other interesting weight tidbits in other threads, including the idea that beam widths are increasing, power + stability can increase while keeping rackets lighter, especially lighter SW. That revolution started in college tennis with pure drives awhile ago, it's just now slowly creeping into the pros.
I think it's definitely the case that most really good tennis players are not like us, obsessing with specs etc. They just hit the damn ball, and hit it well. They often have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to racquets and strings, etc. We would all profit from less tinkering and more hitting. But, the whole point of this thread IS to obsess about the tinkering and customizing and specs, etc. - probably exactly because we are not, never have been, and never will be, D1 level players. Anyway, telling us to stop adding weight is like walking into a bar and telling all the afternoon drunks they'd be better off getting some exercise. True, perhaps, but not likely to work
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
True, for pros, who knows, but the mere idea a stock racket needs weight for a rec player to play his best tennis is something that needs to be reflected upon because players who are way better than us don't need the extra weight to play their best.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Well put, but I have actually converted some people, I promise I have and there are others much more influential than I am that are pushing the revolution as well.I think it's definitely the case that most really good tennis players are not like us, obsessing with specs etc. They just hit the damn ball, and hit it well. They often have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to racquets and strings, etc. We would all profit from less tinkering and more hitting. But, the whole point of this thread IS to obsess about the tinkering and customizing and specs, etc. - probably exactly because we are not, never have been, and never will be, D1 level players. Anyway, telling us to stop adding weight is like walking into a bar and telling all the afternoon drunks they'd be better off getting some exercise. True, perhaps, but not likely to work
tim-ay
Legend
It’s just a bad argument. You can make that claim about anything, literally anything in the world. That doesn’t mean much to me. Personally I like 330. I don’t give an F if you like 320. Good for you.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
topspn
Legend
If Alcaraz is playing a 322-323 SW frame then he managed to be an amazing young tennis player who beat some of the best in the history of the sport while breaking a record of the lowest SW on tour. I know the boy is good, and I'll just have to wait for the next miracle he pulls off
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
Head MG Prestige MP specs: (source: https://www.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/racquet_reviews/mgpreview.html)
| Technical Specifications | ||
| Length | 27 inches | 69 centimeters |
| Head Size | 98 square inches | 632 square centimeters |
| Weight | 11.8 ounces | 335 grams |
| Balance Point | 12.75 inches 32 centimeters | 6pts Head Light |
| Construction | 21 mm Straight Beam | |
| Composition | Microgel / Graphite | |
| String Pattern | 18 Mains / 20 Crosses |
| Babolat RDC Ratings | ||
| Score | Grade | |
| Flex Rating | 63 | Range: 0-100 |
| Swing Weight | 320 | Range: 200-400 |
I guess i just don't understand the point. But, if it makes you excited, good luck!Well put, but I have actually converted some people, I promise I have and there are others much more influential than I am that are pushing the revolution as well.
tim-ay
Legend
They were saying Fritz is playing 324. So it’s possible. Still… life goes on. We’ll see what rumors fly around with CA over time.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Thanks, curious is the better word, I've seen so many RF autograph 97 users who are older and just don't even have any racket head speed and combined with lead adding fans on the forums I just started thinking what is up? People have been nice enough to share why and what style of player they are and it helped me digest it a little bit. Of course I sometimes meet a 5.0 player in competition with an RF 97 auto, which can be scary, but most of the time these heavy sticks end up in lower levels with older players. I can't see lead out in the wild, so it's harder to get a profile of who is doing it, that's why I've asked so many questions on the forums lately of those who've pushed SW above 340 ish. Carry on and good luck on your journeys.
topspn
Legend
According to kozzy's link, he is at 355SW, just a low static
danbrenner
Legend
@FuzzyYellowBalls also a 98 needs more weight than a 100 .. in my experiences i can pull off using a 100 stock 11.3 oz frame. i still prefer a little beef up but i can pull it off. a 98 though is that much tougher to use at the 11.3 area. just usually feels unstable. but again , its possible. would just like to see a few more opinions on what hes using. my guess is that hes getting up to 11.6 oz at least . with using 8g of lead or so to get there. stock form is tough to swallow .
danbrenner
Legend
even that though. 11.8 6pts hl. different beast than 11.3 6pt hl.
tim-ay
Legend
I don’t know if any guys pushing 340 in this thread. Except during the blade pro fascination. Which felt awesome until you had to serve late in a third set. Some of us have been in mid 330’s and most of us 325-333 or so.
Addxyz
Hall of Fame
I'm not a Physics major, but I think it's far more complicated than F=ma. There's difference forces acting on a racquet that get transferred to a ball. Energy is conserved in collisions. If you're calculating the instant kinetic energy of the racquet using 1/2*mv^2, velocity plays a much higher component since it's squared.
tim-ay
Legend
Build a bridge out of her!
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I have an old coaches Yonex frame, matched used..etc. The SW is like 320 strung. I could text him and ask his current SW and he'd be like - "dude WTF you talking about, lets grab some drinks".
I think there are a lot of factors honestly. Like the fact that a coach or pro used that SW doesn't automatically mean that I should. High 320s seems to work for me in terms of timing.
I really think it should boil down to timing. After a few matches it starts to make sense what works. I was playing the Vc95 at 323 but I played the V7 Blade at 336ish and that was good too.
I think there are a lot of factors honestly. Like the fact that a coach or pro used that SW doesn't automatically mean that I should. High 320s seems to work for me in terms of timing.
I really think it should boil down to timing. After a few matches it starts to make sense what works. I was playing the Vc95 at 323 but I played the V7 Blade at 336ish and that was good too.
tim-ay
Legend
I can’t stop looking at gravel bikes. What a strange new world it is. What did you get again? Was it a Canyon? Beer is clouding me more than swingweight.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Salsa Warbird. It's the s--.
tim-ay
Legend
Ah sweet!
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Boy, when you guys get into it... it really can go on for a while!
As @Power Player has said... there are many factors here. So, why are you all arguing and "discussing" this for so long?
First, Alcaraz has more ability and talent in his little pinky than most of us here... so what he can do or does and with which specs, has very little to do with any of us.
Second, those are the specs that are right for him (whatever they are)... so why are you so concerned, as it doesn't have much to do with you?
Third, as @tim-ay has said... he likes 330. That's what it's about. Find what YOU like and what suits you when you are playing YOUR opponents and at your level. Don't worry about others and their specs.
Fourth, I play at the specs I like, not because Djokovic or Nadal, or any other Pro use them... but because I like it that way... and I will go up or down with my specs as it suits me and my game. Some racquets will work well at a lighter weight, so I will not go higher for the ego of it... but others may not play as well at the same (lighter weight), and based on playing with them and my experience of what the opponent is doing and the feedback I'm getting, I will go up in weight because that is what is needed with that racquet.
Fifth, and foremost, WHY are you all arguing with each other??? Just state what YOU like, except what others like... and move on!
Whatever Alcaraz is using suits HIM well... maybe that would work for you, maybe it won't... the only way to find out is to get the PA Vs and get it to those specs and go and find out. Then come back here and say "I've tried those specs and it did or didn't work for ME"... don't worry about the rest of the people and accept their experience as their own.
Most of us wouldn't even see the serve of those Pros... let alone be able to say whether they can return it or not. The only way we can possibly know and comment if something is possible is if we have an apples-to-apples comparison. So, who amongst us here has the ability, reflexes, hand-to-eye coordination, conditioning, speed, experience, and strength of Alcaraz? Anyone...?
So may we table this discussion and debate... and someone out there go and approach Alcaraz and say"Just out of interest... what are the specs of your racquet... cause I want to be you". Then we will know for sure.
As @Power Player has said... there are many factors here. So, why are you all arguing and "discussing" this for so long?
First, Alcaraz has more ability and talent in his little pinky than most of us here... so what he can do or does and with which specs, has very little to do with any of us.
Second, those are the specs that are right for him (whatever they are)... so why are you so concerned, as it doesn't have much to do with you?
Third, as @tim-ay has said... he likes 330. That's what it's about. Find what YOU like and what suits you when you are playing YOUR opponents and at your level. Don't worry about others and their specs.
Fourth, I play at the specs I like, not because Djokovic or Nadal, or any other Pro use them... but because I like it that way... and I will go up or down with my specs as it suits me and my game. Some racquets will work well at a lighter weight, so I will not go higher for the ego of it... but others may not play as well at the same (lighter weight), and based on playing with them and my experience of what the opponent is doing and the feedback I'm getting, I will go up in weight because that is what is needed with that racquet.
Fifth, and foremost, WHY are you all arguing with each other??? Just state what YOU like, except what others like... and move on!
Whatever Alcaraz is using suits HIM well... maybe that would work for you, maybe it won't... the only way to find out is to get the PA Vs and get it to those specs and go and find out. Then come back here and say "I've tried those specs and it did or didn't work for ME"... don't worry about the rest of the people and accept their experience as their own.
Most of us wouldn't even see the serve of those Pros... let alone be able to say whether they can return it or not. The only way we can possibly know and comment if something is possible is if we have an apples-to-apples comparison. So, who amongst us here has the ability, reflexes, hand-to-eye coordination, conditioning, speed, experience, and strength of Alcaraz? Anyone...?
So may we table this discussion and debate... and someone out there go and approach Alcaraz and say"Just out of interest... what are the specs of your racquet... cause I want to be you". Then we will know for sure.
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