Djokovics worst slam, RG or USO?

[tudwell]

But what is underperforming. If he reached 9 finals the highest ever, then isn't that better than 6 at RG.

Not necessarily when he lost in the semis three times to Nadal at RG. There's no force at the US Open like Nadal at RG. I mean 9 finals is insane regardless, but winning just 3 of them is poor for the guy who's statistically the best ever on hard courts.

Put another way: He did about as much as he could at the French considering how often Nadal was standing in his way. He didn't do as much as he could've at the US Open considering the competition standing in his way. That's underperformance, right?

 

[mike danny]

But what is underperforming. If he reached 9 finals the highest ever, then isn't that better than 6 at RG.

Yes, but only winning 3 of those 9 for the supposed HC GOAT is underperformance.

 

[Tennfan123]

For an alleged HC goat, I’d say USO.

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

RG 2 slams 4 finals 5 semis , total 85-16
USO 3 slams 6 finals 3 semis , total 79-12 (removing 2020 3 wins)

He played semis and better 1 more time but was banned once and dqed once and missed once.
Final or better 3 times, banned once dqed once and missed once.
1 more title.
More wins vs big 3 1 vs Nadal 3 vs Federer compared to 1 Federer and 2 Nadal

He achieved more in USopen in 3 less showings than at RG. Not just peak level, more consistency as well. Since 2007 Djokovic has lost to these guys
Federer Nadal Murray Nishikori Wawrinka Medvedev
All are top 10 and except Nishikori all were top 5.

Vs at RG
Nadal Kohlscriber Melzer Federer Wawrinka Ceccinato Thiem

If not for Nadal he may well have won 7 RGs

 

[nolefam_2024]

Not necessarily when he lost in the semis three times to Nadal at RG. There's no force at the US Open like Nadal at RG. I mean 9 finals is insane regardless, but winning just 3 of them is poor for the guy who's statistically the best ever on hard courts.

Put another way: He did about as much as he could at the French considering how often Nadal was standing in his way. He didn't do as much as he could've at the US Open considering the competition standing in his way. That's underperformance, right?

Yes.

And I think even his underperformance at USO is better than his best at RG.

 

[insideoutforehands]

US Open IMO, atleast easily when you consider expectations and what he should have been able to accomplish. RG he is always going to lose to Nadal the vast majority of the time. He in no way underachieved there IMO. US Open though, the so called hard court GOAT, with a bad losing record in US Open finals to a variety of opponents. Big dissapointment.

 

[nolefam_2024]

If not for Nadal he may well have won 7 RGs

I can see him getting beaten by Thiem (if not in final) Stan Wawrinka or someone else. I guess you keep him in higher regard at RG than me.

 

[insideoutforehands]

Easy. RG.
Djokovic level in USO 11, USO 12 before the final, USO 15 better than any RG level from him.
He has far more good wins the USO than at RG. His best win at RG vs a good opponent in good form is what? tsonga in RG 12.
he beat federer in USO 11 and nadal as well.

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Djokovic is clearly a better hard court player than clay court player, so he is always going to win more at the hard court slam in a worst case scenario.

However despite clay probably being his worst surface and in the era of the hands down clay GOAT, he managed 2 RG titles. Despite being regarded by many as the hard court GOAT (which I in fact question given what I am about to say) he has a 3-6 record in US Open finals, with losses to a wide variety of opponents. The so called hard court GOAT going 3-6 in US Open finals is pretty horrible, and having only 1 more US Open title than RG when he is a far better hard courter than clay courter, and when he was in the era of the clay GOAT (he was not in the era of the hard court GOAT considering the large age gap to Federer, and Nadal is of course no way near the hard court GOAT). Well you get the idea.

 

[abmk]

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Djokovic is clearly a better hard court player than clay court player, so he is always going to win more at the hard court slam in a worst case scenario.

However despite clay probably being his worst surface and in the era of the hands down clay GOAT, he managed 2 RG titles. Despite being regarded by many as the hard court GOAT (which I in fact question given what I am about to say) he has a 3-6 record in US Open finals, with losses to a wide variety of opponents. The so called hard court GOAT going 3-6 in US Open finals is pretty horrible, and having only 1 more US Open title than RG when he is a far better hard courter than clay courter, and when he was in the era of the clay GOAT (he was not in the era of the hard court GOAT considering the large age gap to Federer, and Nadal is of course no way near the hard court GOAT). Well you get the idea.

he's displayed a better level at USO than at RG. plain flat out.
has better opponents beaten at USO than at RG. again simple.

I don't regard Djokovic as the hard court GOAT. he's 2nd after Fed.

 

[Third Serve]

Djokovic hasn’t had very many genuinely impressive runs at either tournament tbh. Many deep runs, of course, but most ended with a whimper with a couple of nice exceptions. Djokovic was more consistent at the US Open so I’ll give this to RG but it’s slim pickings here.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

If Djokovic won RG this year I would say that USO was Djokovic's weakest slam.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Djokovic hasn’t had very many genuinely impressive runs at either tournament tbh. Many deep runs, of course, but most ended with a whimper with a couple of nice exceptions. Djokovic was more consistent at the US Open so I’ll give this to RG but it’s slim pickings here.

You are right. We don't need to shy away from his failures at USOpen. His best run was in 2011 though. Apart from that both wins were a bit hollow.

In 2015, he faced Gasquet in qf, Cilic who was injured in semis but still a top 10 guy, or was he top 10. And then Federer.

2018 was even worse. He was dominant but best player he beat was probably Delpo or Nishikori. Not great opponents.

Actually his 2012 and 2013 runs were more difficult along with 2021 and 2010. He didn't have many bright spots in USopen tbh. Apart from 1 good year in 2011.

 

[Deleted member 779124]

Who played at a higher level?

1. Djokovic USO 11 or Djokovic RG 13
2. Djokovic RG 14 or Nadal Wim 18
3. Djokovic USO 07 or Djokovic RG 15
4. Djokovic USO 15 or Djokovic RG 16
5. Federer AO 17 or Djokovic RG 14

equal?
Nadal maybe
RG 15
don't know because Djokovic should be more difficult to handle on HC in periods like that but he seemed more dominant and comfy at RG
equal?

 

[Hood_Man]

US Open definitely.

For the supposedly greatest hardcourt player ever, the greatest warrior, the mentally strongest, and the fittestest player in history etc, he's fallen short too many times.

He's lost 6 finals to 5 opponents, and barely scraped his way into some of those.

There are 5 players with more titles there in the open era.

At the French Open he's really only been second to Nadal for over a decade, and while he's suffered the occasional upset they did at least feel like huge upsets.

At the US Open he's really felt like the definite favourite going into it.

 

[Rurumania]

He made so many deep runs at RG because of the weakest clay era ever (2004-present), and made so many deep runs at USO in in spite of the strong HC era.

And it's not like anybody has won 10+ USOs. He really should've won 2012 only and he'd be fine.

This^


Djokovic is the most consistent player of all-time and when you combine that with a weak clay era then that makes his clay stats look better than they are (Even Nadal's clay stats are a bit inflated)

The competition he's had on HCs in his prime was been much more fierce.

If you check his post-prime results in USO.. 2017 DNP, 2018 W, 2019 injured, 2020 DQ, 2021 F, 2022 DNP so he really has had like 1 actual loss and rest has had an * next to it.

 

[nolefam_2024]

To a large extent I agree. The clay stats are not as strong anyway. Nobody won USOpen 5 times.

 

[GabeT]

People often argue about RG being the worst slam of Djokovic, but is that really the case? If we look back:

2022: Defeated by Nadal
2021: Beaten Nadal, won the tournament
2020: Defeated by Nadal
2019: Defeated by Theim
2018: Still recovering
2017: Injured
2016: Won the tournament
2015: Beaten Nadal, but lost to Wawrinka
2014: Defeated by Nadal
2013: Defeated by Nadal
2012: Defeated by Nadal

Without Nadal he would be at 6-7 RG easily. It was just impossible to amass more titles here when the other guy wins it almost every time. He could be the 2nd best clay court player of all time, despite not showing the results. This isn‘t a discussion about him being an ATG on clay btw.

On the other side he clearly underperformed at USO. Lost 2 out of 3 matches to the inferior HC player that wasn‘t able to beat him on HC since 2013 ever again. Has a 33% final conversion rate in total.

So which is truely his worst slam?

Yeah, without Nadal he’d be close to the RG GOAT. At the USO a combo of bad luck, dumb decisions, and weak play (relative to his overall level) at key matches (2021) kept him at a much lower level than you’d expect

All in all I think USO is the worst slam. And you kind of see it the expectations today. Without Nadal Novak is favored to win RG (we’ll see). Don’t think he’s as favored to win USO (but haven’t checked the betting odds)

 

[Fabresque]

His base level at US Open is higher but he's also underperformed there to a much greater extent than at Roland Garros. Depends on what you mean by "worst", I suppose.

I would agree with this.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Overachieved at one and under at the other.

I’ve always said his Wimbledon and USO titles should be swapped.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Yeah, without Nadal he’d be close to the RG GOAT. At the USO a combo of bad luck, dumb decisions, and weak play (relative to his overall level) at key matches (2021) kept him at a much lower level than you’d expect

All in all I think USO is the worst slam. And you kind of see it the expectations today. Without Nadal Novak is favored to win RG (we’ll see). Don’t think he’s as favored to win USO (but haven’t checked the betting odds)

Check odds first. Novak is number 1 in USO odds.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Not necessarily when he lost in the semis three times to Nadal at RG. There's no force at the US Open like Nadal at RG. I mean 9 finals is insane regardless, but winning just 3 of them is poor for the guy who's statistically the best ever on hard courts.

Put another way: He did about as much as he could at the French considering how often Nadal was standing in his way. He didn't do as much as he could've at the US Open considering the competition standing in his way. That's underperformance, right?

Yes, but only winning 3 of those 9 for the supposed HC GOAT is underperformance.

Exactly, but they don’t wanna admit is bc Nadal stopped him too many times and even Federer slayed in 2011.

 

[Nadal_King]

It’s Rg you have to count that extra title there at UO as a big factor. It will be interesting discussion if he wins Rg.

 

[nolefam_2024]

It’s Rg you have to count that extra title there at UO as a big factor. It will be interesting discussion if he wins Rg.

If he wins RG he has not won USO in the same year. 2 finals though.

 

[Nadal_King]

If he wins RG he has not won USO in the same year. 2 finals though.

I mean if he wins Rg then it’s 3 a peice and we can discuss but right now it’s clearly Rg the worst for me

 

[NatF]

I’ve always said his Wimbledon and USO titles should be swapped.

Nah he just have four less Wimbledons

 

[The Fedfather]

He has insane consistency at both, but at RG it's there's also a heap of great performances where he was just eliminated by excellent level from the most elite opponents. At the USO, otoh, he underperformed a lot when the stakes were high. Could've very realistically been on 2 titles. My vote def goes to USO.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

I’d say the us open despite djoker having 1 more title there. As at RG he’s been very impressive over many years and played in a lot of big semis and finals mainly losing to the king of clay as well as peak performances by Stan, Thiem and Fed. Whereas us open has been novaks worst slam for being less clutch under pressure and playing below par at times.

I’d love to see him try to get 1 more title even though it will be very tough now. Still he has 3 which is great but I feel overall he’s performed on a more consistent higher level at RG. It’s tough to say though as maybe his peak level say in 2011 was better at us open than anything he did at RG. It just feels to me he can be in the main be happy with most of his RG seasons and he’s simply only on 2 due to Nadal being the godly clay GOAT and also 2 inspired legendary performances from Stan wawrinka and Federer to halt him too. In most of those matches he lost he played pretty well whereas at us open he had more chokes and disappointing performances.

Probably his worst RG performance was vs thiem in 2017 and the 2 sets to love choke against melzer in 2010. Whereas at us open he’s had the losses to Stan where he lost in final but Stan wasn’t as great as at RG and Novak didn’t play consistent enough and the other loss to Stan where he losing and withdraw with injury. The nisikori defeat in 2014 was poor for novaks standards and I feel in a few big finals against Nadal or Murray he played worse than he did at RG finals in my view. It is close and can see the argument either way. If Novak did win a 3rd RG then it’s easily RG as better then.

 

[Cabeza del Demonio]

Yeah, 6 slam minimum if not for the tribal chief lol OBVIOUSLY

Ok but.....yeah actually?

2008, 12, 13, 14, and 20. Add that to his 2 actual titles, and yes, Nadal really was the only thing stopping him from winning 7 RG titles.

 

[TripleATeam]

Well, Djokovic made 12 SFs out of the last 14 USO he played. In the early exits, he was either injured and retired while down or was disqualified. His SF+ losses were Federer (3x), Nadal (2x), Murray, Wawrinka, and Medvedev. All but 1 of those losses were to 3+ slam winners, and 5 of the 8 were to 20+ slam winners (not to mention the #1T and #2T players at the slam). His less notable losses were to PCB, Wawrinka, Hewitt, and Verdasco. The last 2 being before he was 20.

Did he underachieve considering his accomplishments elsewhere? Absolutely. Is the USO his worst slam? No. You don't have an average of over 6 wins per event in the last 15 years without it being an amazing slam. His problem at the USO wasn't the slam itself, but rather circumstance.

RG is a different beast entirely. First off, he has fewer RG titles. That's already a point against it. Even discounting every edition he loses to Nadal (which we shouldn't, but let's) he has 2 wins, 1 final, 2 SFs, 3 QFs, and a R3. Even without the Nadal losses, that's barely better than his first 9 USOs, and certainly worse than his first 11 USOs.

At the USO, he's been scarily consistent but his peak level was much lower than it could've been. High skill floor but lower skill ceiling that he consistently met. At RG, his consistency was slightly worse and he met stronger opponents. His level may have been slightly better (but even that's easily debatable).

Points in USO's favor: Actually won more slams, has a better win %, has fewer shock losses, has more finals (same win rate in finals).
Points in RG's favor: Possibly eye test, also played Nadal at RG 10 times (biggest challenge in sports).

Do RG's pros outweigh USO's? I'd say no. Certainly not enough to make up for a 1 slam difference. RG is Djokovic's worst slam until such moment as Djokovic surpasses his USO title count with RG titles.

 

[NoleFam]

This shouldn't be that close. He made at least the SF at the USO for 11 straight years.

 

[Fed_Nole]

still hard to believe that Nole has more Wimbledon than USO and FO combined. his underperformance/misfortune is well compensated

 

[Enceladus]

Yes, but only winning 3 of those 9 for the supposed HC GOAT is underperformance.

For an alleged HC goat, I’d say USO.

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Djokovic is clearly a better hard court player than clay court player, so he is always going to win more at the hard court slam in a worst case scenario.

However despite clay probably being his worst surface and in the era of the hands down clay GOAT, he managed 2 RG titles. Despite being regarded by many as the hard court GOAT (which I in fact question given what I am about to say) he has a 3-6 record in US Open finals, with losses to a wide variety of opponents. The so called hard court GOAT going 3-6 in US Open finals is pretty horrible, and having only 1 more US Open title than RG when he is a far better hard courter than clay courter, and when he was in the era of the clay GOAT (he was not in the era of the hard court GOAT considering the large age gap to Federer, and Nadal is of course no way near the hard court GOAT). Well you get the idea.

US Open definitely.

For the supposedly greatest hardcourt player ever, the greatest warrior, the mentally strongest, and the fittestest player in history etc, he's fallen short too many times.

He's lost 6 finals to 5 opponents, and barely scraped his way into some of those.

There are 5 players with more titles there in the open era.

At the French Open he's really only been second to Nadal for over a decade, and while he's suffered the occasional upset they did at least feel like huge upsets.

At the US Open he's really felt like the definite favourite going into it.

Djoker is the HC GOAT with much more success on AO. There he has a perfect final record of 10:0. Elementary, my dear Watsons.

 

[socallefty]

He has won more USOs and been to more finals than at the French Open - hard to argue that the USO is weaker for him than Roland Garros. I don’t make any excuses for him not being able to beat Nadal on clay - his job as a pro with aspirations of being the GOAT is to beat everyone he plays and he pretty much failed miserably most of the time when he played Nadal at the FO.

 

[Cortana]

Poll indicates ~50/50.

 

[Hood_Man]

Djoker is the HC GOAT with much more success on AO. There he has a perfect final record of 10:0. Elementary, my dear Watsons.

And the French Open is sedimentary


(It isn't actually, but I couldn't resist).

 

[abmk]

Lets look at this year by year for Djokovic at USO and RG

USO 07 > RG 07
USO 08 > RG 08 (yes, one great set vs nadal at RG - 3rd one, but not enough. He did beat Roddick at USO and fairly competitive vs fed)
USO 09 > RG 09
USO 10 > RG 10
USO 11 > RG 11 (beat fed at USO where fed's game is even more dangerous and obviously beat nadal in the final)
USO 12 > RG 12 (at RG, down 2 sets to love vs seppi, had to save MPs vs tsonga, final. - was dominated by nadal except when conditions damp where he dominated, at USO, dominated till final, final went 5 vs Murray, overall definitely USO)

USO 13 < RG 13 (the first one where he could be said to be better at RG than USO, classic 5-setter vs prime Nadal)
USO 14 < RG 14 (lost to Nishi at USO)

USO 15 > RG 15

USO 16 < RG 16

USO 17 - DNP, RG 17 - thrashed by Thiem in straights

USO 18 > RG 18
USO 19 < RG 19
USO 20 < RG 20
USO 21 < RG 21

USO 22 - DNP, RG 22 - QF lost to Nadal in 4 sets

that's 8-6 in the years in which Djokovic played both.

 

[Razer]

USO is Novak's worst slam because many people stopped him at USO, it is the last slam of the year and also bad luck stopped him few times.

at RG it was bull who stopped him, so unless bull has a higher level at USO than RG, it must be Novak's worst slam at uso.

 

[alexio]

tough battle in the poll, which is a good sign that ppl cant decide which is worse hence proving how great djoko is even at his two worst slams

 

[Unseeded Player]

USO is Novak's worst slam because many people stopped him at USO, it is the last slam of the year and also bad luck stopped him few times.

at RG it was bull who stopped him, so unless bull has a higher level at USO than RG, it must be Novak's worst slam at uso.

Yes, only 3 wins from 9 finals there.. That is bad..Some minimum for the ok score should be at least 5...

 

[canta_Brian]

Even when he wins he manages to come out looking bad. So any and all slams I reckon

 

[MichaelNadal]

USO is Novak's worst slam because many people stopped him at USO, it is the last slam of the year and also bad luck stopped him few times.

at RG it was bull who stopped him, so unless bull has a higher level at USO than RG, it must be Novak's worst slam at uso.

Don’t make too much sense now…… lol

 

[Deleted member 779124]

tough battle in the poll, which is a good sign that ppl cant decide which is worse hence proving how great djoko is even at his two worst slams

If Djokovic had performed up to par at the USO it would have been closed for me. But you can't do everything perfect every great has a chink somewhere.