BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
The point is to explain why a shot that is so lethal to Federer doesn't bother Djokovic at all, and why that shot works for Nadal against Federer is only because he plays lefty instead of his natural righty.
Do we need any more proof that why Nadal beats Federer is because Nadal plays lefty?
- Thread starter BreakPoint
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volleygirl
Rookie
And Shaq dominated the NBA because he was 7 feet and over 300 lbs. If Fed couldnt adapt to nadals shots then thats his problem.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
You don't seem to get it. Nadal's game bothers Federer BECAUSE he plays lefty. If Nadal played righty, his game wouldn't bother Federer nearly as much. No one who understands tennis would dispute this. Both Nadal and Uncle Toni understand this very well. That's why when they play, Nadal hits 99% of his forehands crosscourt to Federer's backhand. If Nadal played righty, do you think he would hit 99% of his forehands crosscourt to Federer's forehand? Not a chance!
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Because that would only help Federer against Nadal and not against anyone else. It'll probably hurt him more than help him against other players.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Djokovic also has a way better serve than Nadal. However, none of that bothers Federer more than Nadal's crosscourt topspin high-bouncing forehand.
volleygirl
Rookie
If its just that they are leftys, I am guessing that you have done evrything possible to play left handed as well? Since that is the number one asset in tennis is to just play left handed right?
Lawn Tennis
Semi-Pro
Nadal's lefty massive, high-bouncing, topspin crosscourt forehand to Federer's one-handed backhand has always been a major headache for Federer. However, that same shot to Djokovic is ineffective because Djokovic effectively nullifies Nadal's lefty advantage with his great two-handed backhand, which he can crush either down-the-line or with sharp crosscourt angles. Thus, without his lefty advantage, Nadal is basically left without any weapons. He might as well play right-handed against Djokovic because the results would be the same.
And anyone who claims that if Nadal played right -handed he could just hit inside-out forehands to Federer's backhand and have the same results is wrong. That's because Nadal's inside-out forehand is much flatter than his cross-court forehand so that ball wouldn't bounce nearly as high to Federer's one-handed backhand. Federer would also have far fewer problems with Nadal's serves in the ad court.
Do we need anymore proof? Really? Who doesn't believe this is why Nadal has such success against Federer?!?
volleygirl
Rookie
So he cant develop the 2 hander to use when he plays in the semis or the finals against Nadal and still use his one hander against everyone else?
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Yes, that effect on the ball played lefty (to Federer's BH) is what bothers Federer more than that same effect on the ball played righty (to Federer's FH).
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Do you even play tennis? At a decently high level?
fRa
Rookie
volleygirl
Rookie
Decently high? I am a 4.5 player if you consider that decently high. I just cant believe the whining that your throwing out on here about how unfair it is that Fed cant beat nadal only because hes a lefty.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Huh? How can Nadal be the GOAT if Nadal has lost to Djokovic in 6 consecutive finals in one season and on ALL surfaces?
volleygirl
Rookie
Huh? How can Nadal be the GOAT if Nadal has lost to Djokovic in 6 consecutive finals in one season and on ALL surfaces?
So just being a lefty isnt the end all?
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Then you should know that it's impossible to develop both a world-class 1HBH and a world-class 2HBH all at the same time. They are completely different strokes that have totally different mechanics and timing and strike zones.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Did you even read the OP and the title of this thread?
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
But the 2HBH does have it's weaknesses. Why do you think Sampras switched to a 1HBH? Why is Tsonga switching to a 1HBH?
volleygirl
Rookie
Maybe he shouldve started years ago then,,,since youre saying nadal is a true righty and he was able to overcome all the obstacles it would take to play like an all time great as a lefty when he is truly a righty. Does it take more time to learn a 2HBH than it does to learn to play as a lefty when you are actually a righty?
CyBorg
Legend
Probably a factor. I also think that Nadal's superb defensive skills trouble Federer.
Nadal is all about keeping the ball in play. This frustrates Federer and takes him out of his comfort zone. Fed thrives on dictating rhythm, but this is not a problem with Nadal as he's quite comfortable in a defensive role.
Another thing I've noticed is that Nadal struggles against penetrating, deep, powerful groundies. He's not at all disturbed by Fed's slices and changes of pace. Djokovic likes a more consistent rhythm, so Federer can be a nightmare for him. Djokovic is much like Lendl in that sense.
Nadal is all about keeping the ball in play. This frustrates Federer and takes him out of his comfort zone. Fed thrives on dictating rhythm, but this is not a problem with Nadal as he's quite comfortable in a defensive role.
Another thing I've noticed is that Nadal struggles against penetrating, deep, powerful groundies. He's not at all disturbed by Fed's slices and changes of pace. Djokovic likes a more consistent rhythm, so Federer can be a nightmare for him. Djokovic is much like Lendl in that sense.
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BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
If you can play tennis just as well left-handed as right-handed, then yes, it is to your advantage to play left-handed.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Apparently, many *********s on this board don't believe playing lefty has anything at all to do with Nadal's success over Federer. :???:
volleygirl
Rookie
*********s? You one who threw a fit when you didnt get your way as a kid? Calling people names a sign of it when someone doesnt agree with everything you say.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
If you try to develop both a 1HBH and a 2HBH at the same time you'd probably end up with both a mediocre 1HBH and a mediocre 2HBH. You'd end up splitting your time working on two completely strokes instead of concentrating on making one stroke great. And since the timing is so different, it would likely screw both strokes up.
volleygirl
Rookie
So youre saying that its tougher to develop both a 2HBH and a 1HBH than it is to become a world class player as a lefty when you are natuarlly a righty?
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
If you haven't heard that term before, then you haven't read many posts on this board. If you do a search for that term, you'll see thousands of posts.
Nadal's lefty massive, high-bouncing, topspin crosscourt forehand to Federer's one-handed backhand has always been a major headache for Federer. However, that same shot to Djokovic is ineffective because Djokovic effectively nullifies Nadal's lefty advantage with his great two-handed backhand, which he can crush either down-the-line or with sharp crosscourt angles. Thus, without his lefty advantage, Nadal is basically left without any weapons. He might as well play right-handed against Djokovic because the results would be the same.
And anyone who claims that if Nadal played right -handed he could just hit inside-out forehands to Federer's backhand and have the same results is wrong. That's because Nadal's inside-out forehand is much flatter than his cross-court forehand so that ball wouldn't bounce nearly as high to Federer's one-handed backhand. Federer would also have far fewer problems with Nadal's serves in the ad court.
Pretty much. When I watch Nadal play Novak and he hits that wicked FH to Novak's BH and Novak handles it with ease I always think to myself "Fed would have been in trouble with that shot." The other thing is Novak is always in better court position against Nadal than Federer becuase he won't run around his BH every chance he can like Fed has to. Novak has the best BH in the game.
Sometimes, and not really.
volleygirl
Rookie
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Why don't you ask Nadal? He would know better than I would.
volleygirl
Rookie
If you cant answer that question then I would question how much you play. Becoming an all time great as a lefty when you are actually a righty is incredible.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Agreed. Especially for dealing with Nadal's crosscourt forehand.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Are you Nadal? How do you know how difficult it was or wasn't for someone else who wasn't you?
CDestroyer
Professional
But the 2HBH does have it's weaknesses. Why do you think Sampras switched to a 1HBH? Why is Tsonga switching to a 1HBH?
What are the 2HBH weaknesses? And Tsonga is not switching to a 1HBH. By the way I play a 1HBH. Couldn't hit a 2HBH if I had to. Feels backwards somehow.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
What does this have anything to do with Nadal being good or not?
Yes, Nadal has a very good crosscourt topspin forehand. That's why it bothers Federer's backhand. You don't agree?Nadal beats Fed with cross court forehand and slice serve - Rafa's retrieving skills are a minor irratant but not a game changer. Agree, Fed's variety is difficult for Djoko.
If Nadal played right handed instead of left handed one of 2 things would have to happen: 1. Nadal would have to really improve his serve and backhand, or 2. Nadal would have to get use to be ranked outside the top 3. Sorry, but if Nadal was right handed with the same game, I don't think he would be top 5. Or at least not top 3. His 1st and 2nd serve would be much easier for right handed players to take on the forehand side and Nadal would start a significant number of serve points on defense. His best shot is the cross court forehand. If he was right handed, his cross court forehand would go right into Fed's strength instead of right into Fed's weakness. Same with Tsonga, and Del Po - Nadal's forehand into their forehand would result in a lot of running for Rafa. Yes, he is a great defender but you cannot win majors playing on defense too frequently.
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BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Not as powerful as a 1HBH (assuming you know how to hit a 1HBH). Can't slice. Less variety. Hard to handle low balls. Hard to hit approach shots. Less reach.
I posted well over a year ago (either 2009 or early 2010) when Novak was in the top 5 but not beating any of the top 3 players that he would be the next number one in tennis if he fixed his serve and got a little tougher mentally and physically.
I got mixed responses some agreed some did not. I just thought and it's come to pass that he is built for the modern game. 6'3", incredible movement, two handed backhand that he can take up the line, excellent FH and a willingness to attack with very good volley skills. Now that he can grind it out he's unstoppable. His serve comes and goes still. I didn't know he would be so capable of hitting shots so deep in the court for 4 hours at a time.
aphex
Banned
above bored
Semi-Pro
Not really. Nadal always played better with his left hand than his right, which is why when he had to decide which to play with he went with his left hand. He did not have to relearn the game with his left hand. It always felt more natural on that side.
It's just one of those peculiarities which is hard to explain. I have direct experience myself. I'm right handed, but for some strange reason I play snooker/pool as a left-handed person would. Everything else I do right handed. If I try to play snooker/pool as a right-handed person, it feels as awkward as using my left hand to do something I would normally do with my right.
Nadal is the same. He cannot play tennis with his right hand, but can do everything else fine with it. Conversely, he can play tennis with his left hand, but is uncoordinated with it, comparative to his right hand, in all other areas.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Are you right-handed? If so, why don't YOU play tennis lefty? Everyone knows that playing lefty is a HUGE advantage after all. :???:
Oh, and if Nadal plays tennis better right-handed, don't you think he would have switched by now instead of continuing to get his butt kicked over and over by Djokovic?
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
Nadal owns Federer because he is the far superior tennis player. It really is that simple people. Not because Nadal is left-handed, stronger, better-looking, has far more class, etc. etc. All those things are true, but not the reason why Nadal always beats Federer. Repeat after me - great Nadal is a much better tennis player than overrated Federer.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Then why does "great Nadal" keep getting his butt kicked over and over and over and over, etc. by a guy (Djokovic) that "overrated Federer" can spank?
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SLD76
G.O.A.T.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Pulling out the "Nadal isn't a natural lefty" line is almost becoming the Talk Tennis version of Godwin's Rule*.
Every inane debate about Nadal's skill, if long enough, eventually ends up with someone making this comment - despite, as you say, it not being a remotely special achievement or valuable point. In fact, I do it myself - I write and play tennis left-handed but do almost everything else right-handed (golf, ball throwing, using utensils/scissors etc). No special reason for it nor recollection of how it happened - it just did, and I know no other way.
*Godwin's Rule: Given enough time, in any online discussion - regardless of topic, scope or relevance - someone will inevitably raise an analogy with the beliefs held by Hitler and/or Nazis.
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
Then why does "great Nadal" keep getting his butt kicked over and over and over and over, etc. by a guy (Djokovic) that "overrated Federer" can spank?
Nadal is on alternate year schedule. He uses even years for wins and odd years for rest. Strong 2008, rest 2009, great 2010, rest 2011, get the picture? Spinning serves into the middle of the box at 60mph in the US Open final is rest, not winning. 2012 could be a golden calendar year slam for great Nadal! Although guys like Golubev, Donskoy, and Dolgopolov are certainly starting to knock on the door.
come now, even you dont really believe that.
I believe it, because I believe the truth and that is absolute truth.
marcub
Banned
Bingo. Being a (great) lefty IS an advantage, just like Shaq's being 3 meters tall. You bet that becomes a problem for whoever needs to face them
And no, it doesn't hold true for all lefties Fed has played. They are not Ralph's caliber.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Then why does "great Nadal" keep getting his butt kicked over and over and over and over, etc. by a guy (Djokovic) that "overrated Federer" can spank?
Federer can spank 2011 Djokovic? :shock:
Not that often apparently given that he lost 4 matches out of 5 to him this year (most of them in masters and slams). If we're not talking about this year, then Nadal still has a leading head to head vs Djoko which Fed NEVER had against Rafa. Not for 1 day.
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