Do you consider Nadal a Tier 1 great?

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

It is very frightening the level of hatred some of these people have for Nadal. Posters on here like Ray Mercer, who has wished career ending injury and death on Nadal multiple times, and nutters like Monfed, Drakulie, Magnus, tennis_pro, etc... really make me wish Nadal would hire some security for himself. I think these people could be dangerous, and if Nadal EVER approaches Fed's slam count, I seriously fear for his life. Ray Mercer is also the one who announced a trip to Mallorca last year, and how he wanted to watch Nadal practice, and was on here asking how to do so. Thankfully, he was injured most of last year, and he wasn't practicing at the time.

I agree...and there are others on this board with as much hatred for Nadal, and frankly need to be watched. No balanced mind will spew so much hatred and not intend to take it to another level when their words are proven to have no effect in stopping Nadal.

It would be in the best interests of Nadal (and his family) for security to be increased wherever he goes--on or off court.

 

[kiki]

Laver is tier 0

 

[kalyan4fedever]

Nadal might not be a grinder, but he doesnt have the variety in the game that Federer has and he doesn't have a good serve either. He is not a complete player that fed is, but yes he is close to belong in tier 1

 

[objectivity]

...and that is the truly sad part of the situation: they are so gripped by a fanatical, self-created delusion transforming Federer into their fake "god," that there's not a trace of intellectual assessment of his place in history. No, history is clearly rejected (along with Nadal's place within) as it is the only way Federer is a GOAT and/or "tier 1" player. Introduce history, and as you see thread to thread, they are quick to post the most vile, sociopathic lines ever witnessed--a bloodthirsty, thoughtless series of tirades that seek to destroy the recorded events of history (and how they are considered) all to praise Federer.

Some will say "its just sports," but they defend Federer to a degree that suggests thought could take a more physical turn if left unchecked.

this post itself deserves a place in TW Hall of Fame. bravo!

 

[objectivity]

This sums of the arrogance of so many Federer Fans. If what you said was true, no one would be a fan of anyone else. Tennis or any other sport is about different styles, personalities, and skills. Some prefer Federer's style and some prefer Nadal's. This should be easy to understand.

Federer has a 5 year age gap over Nadal. He should have more accomplishments, that only makes sense. Name a player 22 years old who has as many accomplishments as Nadal.

Not a bit of objectivity in your post, while you try to slam others for not being objective.

but the thing is, even if a poster concedes that federer is the greater player -- heck, even nadal consistently concedes that federer is his greater -- the nadal-hater is still not satisfied. its not just about exalting federer has the greatest anymore. it has to be accompanied by complete demonizing of nadal and any other challenger.

 

[The Dark Knight]

but the thing is, even if a poster concedes that federer is the greater player -- heck, even nadal consistently concedes that federer is his greater -- the nadal-hater is still not satisfied. its not just about exalting federer has the greatest anymore. it has to be accompanied by complete demonizing of nadal and any other challenger.

It's really quite simple it just is a basic childhood response and can be sued up in two easy words:

Sore Losers

 

[objectivity]

Federer fans are deluded about a great many things. They actually believe that Roger's "graceful playing style" alone guarantees him his questionable GOAT status. But tennis isn't ballet or ice-skating. You don't get bonus points for pirouettes or poetry-in-motion.

I am convinced that 98% of his fans would not even notice his existence, let alone chant his name so religiously, had he won 2-3 Slams instead of the 17 (half of which were a result of a lot of luck and Nadal's annual injuries). It is his great success that attracts weak-minded people to Federer (and others like him). To them, the only appeal is that he won a lot; that makes them identify with him, and makes them ignore the fact that he is both dull and unlikable. Let's face it, Roger has no charisma to speak of, he is arrogant and pompous, and isn't nearly the fair sportsman many falsely promote him as.

For the most detailed internet analysis of Federer's failure to become GOAT, check out my text.

http://vjetropev.blogspot.com/2013/06/is-roger-federer-greatest-player-ever.html

i am actually of the opinion that federer IS the greatest player of all time, in terms of career statistics. furthermore, i think he has revolutionized the sport in that he has truly ushered in this new power baseliner style which has so influenced every player since. those are truly objective facts that are almost indisputable.

what makes me angry is how these nadal-haters must also demonize nadal and every other challenger to fed. how they refuse to acknowledge that nadal has been the better player to federer man vs man. how nadal is now a superb player capable of winning across all surfaces. those are similarly indisputable facts, just as federer is statistically the most successful player ever. why can't they be just intellectually honest?

 

[TheTruth]

but the thing is, even if a poster concedes that federer is the greater player -- heck, even nadal consistently concedes that federer is his greater -- the nadal-hater is still not satisfied. its not just about exalting federer has the greatest anymore. it has to be accompanied by complete demonizing of nadal and any other challenger.

Totally true, and the fact that they can't be satisfied speaks volumes about their insecurity. If they really believe that Federer is the greatest that alone should/would satisfy them. There is something fishy going on with the he is the greatest, but I have to demonize Nadal at the same. It doesn't make sense.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

but the thing is, even if a poster concedes that federer is the greater player -- heck, even nadal consistently concedes that federer is his greater -- the nadal-hater is still not satisfied. its not just about exalting federer has the greatest anymore. it has to be accompanied by complete demonizing of nadal and any other challenger.

All so true; pure, dangerous hatred of other human beings is their driving force. There's not a single thread in on this board where the moment the historic achievements or success of another is mentioned, that the usual suspects post horrifying attacks against players, fans and anyone else not on their knees in front of Federer. Only cults match this kind of feverish, gross promotion of a person in this manner. It is beyond sport--it has become living through Federer as their guide to existence...much like a cult.

The usual respose from cults throughout history is to scream at those who oppose their twisted beliefs, or move toward a desire to cause physical harm to the person (or people) seen as a threat to that belief.

This is where this situation can go, so it is no longer "oh, they're just passionate about sports" matter (as some will argue).

 

[TMF]

Who the hell invented this Tier 1 stuff?

But yes, the Top 5 male players of all time in no order are: Federer, Nadal, Laver, Sampras, Borg

Who knows, but whoever separate players from tier great then do it correctly and consistently. You can't have a player in a same tier with another player who has 5 more slams and 200 more weeks at #1 while having Borg ahead of Lendl when the gap is not even as huge between Fed and Nadal. A lot of Nole fans are biased, but not as biased as Nadal fans level since they don't place Nole in the same tier great as Nadal.

 

[granddog29]

These would be my tiers in alphabetical order within the tiers:

Tier 1- Borg, Federer, Gonzales, Laver, Nadal, Sampras
Tier 2- Budge, Connors, Lendl, Rosewall, Tilden, Vines
Tier 3- Agassi, Cochet, Doherty, Kramer, LaCoste, McEnroe, Perry, Wilding
Tier 4- Wilander, Becker, Edberg, Newcombe, Hoad, Trabert, Djokovic

Probably a few I am missing but essentialy those would be the all time greats. So I concur he is a tier 1 great for sure.

 

[objectivity]

These would be my tiers in alphabetical order within the tiers:

Tier 1- Borg, Federer, Gonzales, Laver, Nadal, Sampras
Tier 2- Budge, Connors, Lendl, Rosewall, Tilden, Vines
Tier 3- Agassi, Cochet, Doherty, Kramer, LaCoste, McEnroe, Perry, Wilding
Tier 4- Wilander, Becker, Edberg, Newcombe, Hoad, Trabert, Djokovic

Probably a few I am missing but essentialy those would be the all time greats. So I concur he is a tier 1 great for sure.

why do you place agassi behind lendl and connors? apart from that, i quite like your list. although frankly, i think all these older players like wilding, budge etc are quite "overrated" for lack of better word. the level of competition then wasn't quite the same as the modern day professional era.

 

[marc45]

These would be my tiers in alphabetical order within the tiers:

Tier 1- Borg, Federer, Gonzales, Laver, Nadal, Sampras
Tier 2- Budge, Connors, Lendl, Rosewall, Tilden, Vines
Tier 3- Agassi, Cochet, Doherty, Kramer, LaCoste, McEnroe, Perry, Wilding
Tier 4- Wilander, Becker, Edberg, Newcombe, Hoad, Trabert, Djokovic

Probably a few I am missing but essentialy those would be the all time greats. So I concur he is a tier 1 great for sure.

i think this is a fair and rational look at it...what are you doing here?

 

[granddog29]

Connors and Lendl destroy Agassi in every respect apart from same # of slams and the Career Slam. They are 1st and 2nd in tournament titles in the Open Era, and a good 30-45 more than Agassi. I believe Lendl is 1st in the Open Era in slam finals and Connors 1st in slam semis. At their peaks both were far more dominant than Agassi was. Both were much more consistent than Agassi was. Both had more time at #1 and the WTF titles over Agassi too.

Some would say Agassi was more versatile since he won on all surfaces. However Agassi could only win once in a blue moon on any of carpet, grass, or clay. Even Nadal the supposed clay is 80% of his greatness man was a bigger and more regular threat by far to win on grass or hard courts than Agassi was on any non hard court surface. Lendl and Connors at their best were fairly dominant on all surfaces except grass for Lendl and clay for Connors, plus Connors making all those U.S Open finals on clay, and Lendl all those Wimbledon finals and Queens titles, so in many ways they were more versatile.

 

[kiki]

These would be my tiers in alphabetical order within the tiers:

Tier 1- Borg, Federer, Gonzales, Laver, Nadal, Sampras
Tier 2- Budge, Connors, Lendl, Rosewall, Tilden, Vines
Tier 3- Agassi, Cochet, Doherty, Kramer, LaCoste, McEnroe, Perry, Wilding
Tier 4- Wilander, Becker, Edberg, Newcombe, Hoad, Trabert, Djokovic

Probably a few I am missing but essentialy those would be the all time greats. So I concur he is a tier 1 great for sure.

Ver good list, but we must wait till Nadal,Federer and Djokovic career are over.maybe Emerson,Sedgman and Crawford could be in tier 4 but the list is very acceptable, although one disagrees with the order.

 

[timnz]

Eras

why do you place agassi behind lendl and connors? apart from that, i quite like your list. although frankly, i think all these older players like wilding, budge etc are quite "overrated" for lack of better word. the level of competition then wasn't quite the same as the modern day professional era.

I can speak for the person whose list you are referring to...but in general these lists are not about measuring how good a player is in an absolute sense...but rather comparing their achievements ie major titles won, time at number 1 etc etc. Because it is impossible to know for sure how a player from one era would have done against the top player from another. (Having said that I find it interesting how Laver could still take sets from Borg when the former was pushing 40, or how Tilden in his 50s would take world number 1s to 5 sets).

 

[The Dark Knight]

Nadal is in tier 1 ....everyone else is in tier 2 or lower .

 

[ubi1]

Nadal is in tier 1 ....everyone else is in tier 2 or lower .

LOL Did you know hardcourt specialist like Federer, Murray and Nole have never done the Montreal-Cincy Double. Rafa has done the rare feat. So exited about US open Vamos!!!!

 

[timnz]

My change on Nadal

Up until a couple of weeks ago I would have put Nadal in tier two...but his wins on hardcourt in Montreal and Cincinatti have moved him up to Tier 1 for me. The prime reason is his amazing record at Masters 1000. You have Lendl at 22 and Federer at 21....Nadal at 27 years old having 26 is just incredible. For those who think that slams are everything, I would encourage them to rethink just how enormous winning 26 Masters 1000s are. Slams to be sure at the prime events, but you just can't dismiss how great Nadals achievement is here. I am a Federer fan saying this...but you just have to give credit where credit is due.

 

[timnz]

Nadal is in tier 1 ....everyone else is in tier 2 or lower .

Well that isn't true. Tier 1 is (in no particular order) ...federer, laver, rosewall, tilden, gonzales, borg, sampras and now (see my post above) Nadal.

The reason Nadal isn't at the top of the tier 1 group is lack of slam wins outside his primary slam and also him having the least time of all the above players at number 1. Now having said that he will add to both of those counts significantly before his career is done.

 

[Bud]

Up until a couple of weeks ago I would have put Nadal in tier two...but his wins on hardcourt in Montreal and Cincinatti have moved him up to Tier 1 for me. The prime reason is his amazing record at Masters 1000. You have Lendl at 22 and Federer at 21....Nadal at 27 years old having 26 is just incredible. For those who think that slams are everything, I would encourage them to rethink just how enormous winning 26 Masters 1000s are. Slams to be sure at the prime events, but you just can't dismiss how great Nadals achievement is here. I am a Federer fan saying this...but you just have to give credit where credit is due.

Agreed. Many top 5 guys struggle their entire career to get 1 or 2 MS1000 titles (prior to the current era). Ferrer just won his first MS1000 against a weak field in Paris 2012.

How many guys not named Nadal, Federer, Djokovic or Murray (all multiple major winners) have won a MS1000 title in the last 10 years? 26 MS1000 titles at 27 years of age is beyond remarkable. At this rate, Nadal could possibly win 35 MS1000 titles before he retires.

 

[VamosRafa]

I have not posted in ages, not since 2010, I believe. I am so glad to see Rafa fulfilling the promise so many of us saw when he was a teenager. Back then many thought he would be a Michael Chang or Thomas Muster at best. I did not think he would have the career he has had to date, but I knew he would be a great player. His determination even then was amazing to see. He deserves to be part of this debate. Cheers to all. And kudos to TW for continuing to run a great site.

 

[Smasher08]

you just have to give credit where credit is due.

By the same token, you have to call a spade a spade.

There were many around here -- Nad fans included -- who believe that Djokovic's virtually out of nowhere run in '11 was artificially induced.

Well Nads is now officially on such a run right now. And his is even more out of the blue than Djok's.

Djok's run was allegedly propelled by winning the DC, going gluten free, and experimenting with a CVAC.

Nad's run, allegedly, has been propelled by being absent from the tour for 8 months due to a small case of knee tendonitis, a partially torn patella, and a little fever. Perhaps his run has also been propelled by a little PRPs and TUEs.

Nads has now done the things that allegedly destroyed his knees for two weeks almost non-stop, on what he formerly claimed was the worst surface for his body, at a consistently higher level than ever before, without apparently experiencing fatigue or the need for recovery time, while now outside of his physical prime at age 27, without any signs of injury.

Sorry folks, I smell a little too much Armstrong and Bonds at work here.

 

[objectivity]

By the same token, you have to call a spade a spade.

There were many around here -- Nad fans included -- who believe that Djokovic's virtually out of nowhere run in '11 was artificially induced.

Well Nads is now officially on such a run right now. And his is even more out of the blue than Djok's.

Djok's run was allegedly propelled by winning the DC, going gluten free, and experimenting with a CVAC.

Nad's run, allegedly, has been propelled by being absent from the tour for 8 months due to a small case of knee tendonitis, a partially torn patella, and a little fever. Perhaps his run has also been propelled by a little PRPs and TUEs.

Nads has now done the things that allegedly destroyed his knees for two weeks almost non-stop, on what he formerly claimed was the worst surface for his body, at a consistently higher level than ever before, without apparently experiencing fatigue or the need for recovery time, while now outside of his physical prime at age 27, without any signs of injury.

Sorry folks, I smell a little too much Armstrong and Bonds at work here.

i smelt a tonne of armstrong and bonds with the streak of 23 consecutive GS semi-finals when the best LAVER and lendl could do was 10.

 

[Bud]

I have not posted in ages, not since 2010, I believe. I am so glad to see Rafa fulfilling the promise so many of us saw when he was a teenager. Back then many thought he would be a Michael Chang or Thomas Muster at best. I did not think he would have the career he has had to date, but I knew he would be a great player. His determination even then was amazing to see. He deserves to be part of this debate. Cheers to all. And kudos to TW for continuing to run a great site.

You're a legend on this forum

You recognized greatness in Nadal WAYYYYYY back

i smelt a tonne of armstrong and bonds with the streak of 23 consecutive GS semi-finals when the best LAVER and lendl could do was 10.

Seriously. Him questioning Nadal/Djokovic and leaving Federer out after his run back to #1 at 31 years of age... and then dropping virtually overnight to #7. That's fair and balanced smasher

 

[timnz]

Annoying little habit of mine

By the same token, you have to call a spade a spade.

There were many around here -- Nad fans included -- who believe that Djokovic's virtually out of nowhere run in '11 was artificially induced.

Well Nads is now officially on such a run right now. And his is even more out of the blue than Djok's.

Djok's run was allegedly propelled by winning the DC, going gluten free, and experimenting with a CVAC.

Nad's run, allegedly, has been propelled by being absent from the tour for 8 months due to a small case of knee tendonitis, a partially torn patella, and a little fever. Perhaps his run has also been propelled by a little PRPs and TUEs.

Nads has now done the things that allegedly destroyed his knees for two weeks almost non-stop, on what he formerly claimed was the worst surface for his body, at a consistently higher level than ever before, without apparently experiencing fatigue or the need for recovery time, while now outside of his physical prime at age 27, without any signs of injury.

Sorry folks, I smell a little too much Armstrong and Bonds at work here.

I have this annoying little habit when people mention drugs relating to a player...that is I have this need to see/hear evidence...any evidence at all....since in Nadals case there is no evidence at all...I would strongly advise saying nothing at all. With full respect to you, Without evidence it is nothing but a slur.

 

[granddog29]

Ver good list, but we must wait till Nadal,Federer and Djokovic career are over.maybe Emerson,Sedgman and Crawford could be in tier 4 but the list is very acceptable, although one disagrees with the order.

Thanks, and sorry I knew there were atleast a few people I had forgotten and those were the ones. They are definitely all atleast tier 4, maybe tier 3. Sedgeman especialy was scary when he was at this best, alot like Hoad, but he has more titles to back that up than Hoad does as well.

I did not put the people in any specific order within the tiers just so you know. Had I put them in order they wouldnt have been the same order I had them. I just wanted to distinguish which tier I would put each in.

 

[objectivity]

You're a legend on this forum

You recognized greatness in Nadal WAYYYYYY back



Seriously. Him questioning Nadal/Djokovic and leaving Federer out after his run back to #1 at 31 years of age... and then dropping virtually overnight to #7. That's fair and balanced smasher

i am so glad many more objective and fair minded posters are coming back on the forum... really disgusting the ways of these nadal-haters... how they are hell bent on demonizing nadal just because he is a good tennis player.

 

[VamosRafa]

You're a legend on this forum

You recognized greatness in Nadal WAYYYYYY back

Lol. Yes, I did. And I did a fan site for him that later merged into his official site. Many moons ago. I was lucky to see him play, and even win events, back in the day. But I curtailed my tennis travels in favor of destination marathons and half marathons. I am a better runner than tennis player --which is not saying much, but I can eat what I want if I run. Lol. But I continue to be amazed by what this young man has accomplished and continues to accomplish. And he has remained humble, which I like to see.

 

[Bud]

Lol. Yes, I did. And I did a fan site for him that later merged into his official site. Many moons ago. I was lucky to see him play, and even win events, back in the day. But I curtailed my tennis travels in favor of destination marathons and half marathons. I am a better runner than tennis player --which is not saying much, but I can eat what I want if I run. Lol. But I continue to be amazed by what this young man has accomplished and continues to accomplish. And he has remained humble, which I like to see.

I first became aware of Nadal around May of 2005 when I was listening to the radio on my way to class at UCSB... he'd just beaten Federer in the SF of RG. I'd gotten so sick of hearing Federer's name at that time as he was winning virtually everything. Was great to know someone out there was challenging him.

 

[timnz]

Federer fan who likes Nadal

I think the problem on this forum is the putdowns of various players. I am primarily a Federer fan, but I am full of admiration of Nadals play. It is not necessary to put down your favourite players opposition to make your player sound better.

I have learnt a lot on this forum (particularly tennis history)....but the war constantly going on is exhausting.

 

[Smasher08]

I have this annoying little habit when people mention drugs relating to a player...that is I have this need to see/hear evidence...any evidence at all....since in Nadals case there is no evidence at all...I would strongly advise saying nothing at all. With full respect to you, Without evidence it is nothing but a slur.

Cool story.

I suppose you consider all the Biogenesis folks to have been slurred.

There is such a thing as reasonable grounds for suspicion, and unfortunately for you, I genuinely believe the guy you're protecting is now head-deep in it.

 

[Smasher08]

i am so glad many more objective and fair minded posters are coming back on the forum... really disgusting the ways of these nadal-haters... how they are hell bent on demonizing nadal just because he is a good tennis player.

Funny how many of the Federer haters have multiple accounts here.

How good of you to join us so recently.

 

[Smasher08]

i smelt a tonne of armstrong and bonds with the streak of 23 consecutive GS semi-finals when the best LAVER and lendl could do was 10.

Fascinating.

So it's your position the the guy on the left, below, is juicing, and the guy on the right isn't?

Please clarify that for us.

I'd appreciate the avoidance of doubt here.

 

[kiki]

Thanks, and sorry I knew there were atleast a few people I had forgotten and those were the ones. They are definitely all atleast tier 4, maybe tier 3. Sedgeman especialy was scary when he was at this best, alot like Hoad, but he has more titles to back that up than Hoad does as well.

I did not put the people in any specific order within the tiers just so you know. Had I put them in order they wouldnt have been the same order I had them. I just wanted to distinguish which tier I would put each in.

of course, we could agree on disagreeing about a few positions here and there.If we consider peak play weightening over number of major titles, then Hoad is AT LEAST tier 2 and most probably tier 1.If we consider surface dominance, Nadal´s record on clay ( and good on other surfaces) make him a tier 1 memeber.

IMO, we should create Tier 0.Laver needs not to be bothered...

 

[Bud]

Funny how many of the Federer haters have multiple accounts here.

How good of you to join us so recently.

Why would you mention Djokovic and Nadal and fail to mention Federer's superhuman feat of coming back from a deep funk to regain the #1 ranking and win 2012 Wimbledon at the age of nearly 31? Now, he's #7 - less than a year later. IMO, that is way more suspicious than Djokovic's or Nadal's feats.

Yet, somehow this didn't factor into your ridiculous implication of PED use.

 

[Bud]

Fascinating.

So it's your position the the guy on the left, below, is juicing, and the guy on the right isn't?

Please clarify that for us.

I'd appreciate the avoidance of doubt here.

PED use in tennis has nothing to do with muscle mass. They are concerned with oxygen and recovery.

 

[KillerServe]

Federer is more talented than all of the other 3 combined. Therefore what he does superhumanly is expected. The others can't cut it and therefore need to resort to PEDs to keep up.

 

[objectivity]

Funny how many of the Federer haters have multiple accounts here.

How good of you to join us so recently.

who are the federer haters? i am certainly not one. i think he is the greatest player ever in terms of career statistics.

 

[objectivity]

Fascinating.

So it's your position the the guy on the left, below, is juicing, and the guy on the right isn't?

Please clarify that for us.

I'd appreciate the avoidance of doubt here.

my point was simply to highlight your intellectual dishonesty. i think NEITHER of them are doping.

 

[timnz]

Evidence please otherwise.......silence please on this

Cool story.

I suppose you consider all the Biogenesis folks to have been slurred.

There is such a thing as reasonable grounds for suspicion, and unfortunately for you, I genuinely believe the guy you're protecting is now head-deep in it.

Nadal is 27 not 67. He had 7 months off to get healthy. His health did improve significantly. He has a chronic condition - that seems to respond well to rest. His play didn't come out of thin air.....he has been a top player since 2005. He is more muscular than most players - but not extremely so - well within the range of normal genetic variation.

Goodness. Normally confidence of ones position comes from having a strong case. But since you have no evidence whatsoever, I wonder where you get your confidence from. Again, I am primarily a Federer fan. I have no bias towards Nadal. What I do have a strong bias towards is, before people make slurs as bad a saying someone is using drugs - they have solid, hard evidence for doing so. Otherwise focus on tennis.

 

[VamosRafa]

I first became aware of Nadal around May of 2005 when I was listening to the radio on my way to class at UCSB... he'd just beaten Federer in the SF of RG. I'd gotten so sick of hearing Federer's name at that time as he was winning virtually everything. Was great to know someone out there was challenging him.

I previously worked on a Rafter site and then co-started a Roddick fan site. This was back when official sites for players were not common and were not updated much. When I saw that Rafa as a 16 year old got to the third round of Monte Carlo, beating RG winner Al Costa in the process, I knew something remarkable was going on, particularly when the Spanish players were touting him as one of the best players they had ever seen -- particularly his mental strength. IMHO, it is the latter that has gotten him to where he is today. There are many talented players, but only a few who have what it takes to be a champion.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

For me Tier 1 would include Federer, Laver, Sampras, Gonzalez, Rosewall, and Tilden.

Borg and Nadal fall below, grouped with a couple others in the second tier.

To move into the first tier Nadal needs to diversify his slam resume further and gain more weeks at #1.

If I had to guess I'd say he has another couple of slams in him before he's done. However even if he regains the #1, I imagine him holding onto it for only about 40-50 more weeks - he keeps losing form/missing time because of his knee problems. Along those lines even if he finished with 14 slams, 150 weeks at #1, 3 year end #1s along with his other accomplishments (dominance of clay, most masters series wins, etc), I still don't think I'd put him any higher than 7th all time, behind Sampras/Tilden/Rosewall. As of now he and Borg are similarly placed around 10ish for me.

 

[jg153040]

Nadal has to win 8 wimbies, 2 medals, spend 200 more weeks at number one, win at least 5 WTFs and make at least 11,5 consecutive semis to be considered the same tier as Fed.

And I'm being generous here. Didn't even count 24 consecutive finals won across all surfaces and 5 consecutive uso and wimbies. Also 4 AO and 5 USO.

Why can't Nadal win a non clay major or WTF 3,5 years of his prime? How can he be in the same tier as Fed? Ok, on clay, he is tier 1, yes, I give you that.

But you can't be tier 1 playing a 2nd fiddle to a guy who you are supposed to own and Djokovic in rankings war your entire life.

I like Nadal, I really do. But you can't just invent his achievements to put him above others. That is insane.

 

[Bud]

Nadal has to win 8 wimbies, 2 medals, spend 200 more weeks at number one, win at least 5 WTFs and make at least 11,5 consecutive semis to be considered the same tier as Fed.

And I'm being generous here. Didn't even count 24 consecutive finals won across all surfaces and 5 consecutive uso and wimbies. Also 4 AO and 5 USO.

Why can't Nadal win a non clay major or WTF 3,5 years of his prime? How can he be in the same tier as Fed? Ok, on clay, he is tier 1, yes, I give you that.

But you can't be tier 1 playing a 2nd fiddle to a guy who you are supposed to own and Djokovic in rankings war your entire life.

I like Nadal, I really do. But you can't just invent his achievements to put him above others. That is insane.

Nadal has at least 2 slams on every surface while Federer has a single clay slam. Yet, it's Nadal who is not diverse .. :roll:

Oh, this is rich... Nadal also needs an Olympic gold doubles medal and an Olympic silver singles medal (as if his singles GOLD medal isn't enough).. ROFL! Are you for real or is this blatant trolling?

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

I have this annoying little habit when people mention drugs relating to a player...that is I have this need to see/hear evidence...any evidence at all....since in Nadals case there is no evidence at all...I would strongly advise saying nothing at all. With full respect to you, Without evidence it is nothing but a slur.

That's all you will get from members who cannot accept Nadal's natural gifts--particularly when playing and/or defeating Federer.

 

[VamosRafa]

On clay, Rafa is the best ever. Hard to seriously debate that one. Where he ends up in the scheme of things is still up in the air. He has had success on other surfaces, and has a career slam. Not too shabby. Definitely the best Spanish player ever. Look forward to the next chapters in this debate. As for the drug allegations, folks were saying that back when he was a teenager. It was hard for some to believe he could be so good without it, I guess. My only response is that his compatriots even back then knew he would be No 1 just because of his mental toughness.

 

[jg153040]

Nadal has at least 2 slams on every surface while Federer has a single clay slam. Yet, it's Nadal who is not diverse .. :roll:

Oh, this is rich... Nadal also needs an Olympic gold doubles medal and an Olympic silver singles medal (as if his singles GOLD medal isn't enough).. ROFL! Are you for real or is this blatant trolling?

You are comparing being bad at 25% and 75% the same thing. I'm wasting my time, cuz you don't get it anyway.

Let me put this in simple words. Nadal trails Fed too much to be in the same tier. If you don't get why, not my problem. I said my piece, no point in getting into debates, since you are just twisting facts to fit your agenda.

 

[Bud]

You are comparing being bad at 25% and 75% the same thing. I'm wasting my time, cuz you don't get it anyway.

Let me put this in simple words. Nadal trails Fed too much to be in the same tier. If you don't get why, not my problem. I said my piece, no point in getting into debates, since you are just twisting facts to fit your agenda.

Let me get you a tissue. There are many things Federer trails Nadal at as well - yet you failed to mention a single one :lol:

Bringing up a doubles gold medal ??

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Nadal has at least 2 slams on every surface while Federer has a single clay slam. Yet, it's Nadal who is not diverse .. :roll:

Oh, this is rich... Nadal also needs an Olympic gold doubles medal and an Olympic silver singles medal (as if his singles GOLD medal isn't enough).. ROFL! Are you for real or is this blatant trolling?

Well, that is to be expected spin jobs, lies all to support the questionable records of Federer: Nadal proved he was no "dirtballer" by winning two Wimbledon titles--one against the alleged best grass courter of the generation, but in their line of "thinking," Federer is one of the best clay courters of all time (with only a fluke title), yet Nadal is completely disregarded on grass.

The lies, spinning and other transparent tactics used by the Federer Fringe knows no limits, and only exposes just how desperate they are to alter history to support the false "god."