Do you hate ball bashers too?

[donquijote]

Following the popularity of 'Why do people hate pushers?' next comes the question 'Do you hate ball bashers too?'.

I personally hate playing ball bashers with the exception of good ones with higher accuracy percentage. I prefer playing a pusher than a basher that abuses the ball with every chance to create winners. Most of these people have high testosterone trying to satisfy their manly tendencies . There is simply no joy in playing with those wanna-be-s. The funny thing is just like against the pushers, one can lose to a not-so-good ball basher just because of this frustration.

I am sure this is something that was asked a million times before but let's see how opinions have evolved!

 

[WildVolley]

Nope.

A match with a ball basher who is missing is over quickly.

 

[donquijote]

Nope.

A match with a ball basher who is missing is over quickly.

If your only aim is to win you might be right but I'd rather enjoy a good match and lose.
It's also not always the quickest one against a basher. I just played with a guy whose second serve was the same as first one because he didn't want to play rallies and he just bashed the ball with every opportunity. The set took much longer than usual because he spends more time than Nadal between his serves and has to get all three balls in his pocket every time and also has to do the towel thing when I serve. Very frustrating.

 

[heninfan99]

I hate playing with ball bashers...they often have some high powered yellow Babolat. They waste so many points in doubles. Really the worst.

 

[torpantennis]

Just last week I played against a typical ball basher. He was fist pumping and loudly cheering whenever he won A POINT. The only way to get any rallies with him was to junkball with low bouncing slices. Whenever I hit a normal rally ball, he either hit a winner or an error. Then he even tried to build a sort of a cool guy image before/after the match. TBH, he was one of the most ridiculous guys I've ever played against. What's the most ridiculous, he was over 40yo!

So yes, I DO HATE BALL BASHERS! Most of them are some annoying childish rats who should grow up. :evil:

 

[Easy Rider]

I love to play against them

 

[GuyClinch]

Ball Bashers are just pushers trying to hit hard - usually arming everything..and shanking most stuff into the net. Once they figure out its a losing tactic they usually go back to normal..

So they key is to play points against them - not just hit.

 

[cjs]

Ball Bashers are just pushers trying to hit hard - usually arming everything..and shanking most stuff into the net. Once they figure out its a losing tactic they usually go back to normal..

So they key is to play points against them - not just hit.

There are quality players who like to play very aggressive first strike tennis. Personally I don't find them much fun to play against (especially if they have a huge serve) because the match is more on their racquet than mine.

I generally try to make these sorts of players hit as many balls as possible and weather the storm.

 

[GuyClinch]

^^^That's a good player - not a basher. But sure there are players like that..

 

[cjs]

So you can't be a good player and a ball basher?

 

[LeeD]

You know what's really tough?
I play WITH my 4.0 lefty bud, and he pushes everything and serves 45 mph max.
Then I play on another court, and he's striking 4.5 looking winners fore and backhand, but still serves at 45 mph.
So I rotate in and play against him, and he crushes everything to my partner, who of course, doesn't like to handle pace.
Once the set get's close to 5's, my lefty bud usually just falls apart being too cute for the score trying unreal angles and spins.
I have no idea what he really plays like, having been playing tennis with him for over 12 years.

 

[President]

^Who is this guy? Did I ever see him?

 

[GuyClinch]

So you can't be a good player and a ball basher?

Nah. The problem is if we broaden these terms they don't have much meaning anymore. There are great players who hit the ball with a lot of pace - Del Potro, Gonzalez et al..

And there is the local hack who wails away at the ball with lousy technique and gets 2 out of 5 balls in. That's a basher.
The difference here is that the pro power hitter will get most of his shots in. Give him a normal rally ball - he probably hits it in. He is playing within his game.

The basher is not - the basher is playing 'over' his head and that's why he ticks some people. If some dude was just pounding the ball in a really - we would all think he is really good - and not some 'basher.'

Likewise there is a guy like Murray who would run everything down and return it deep - a 'retriever'

Then there is the local club hack that decides to dink everything back to keep the point alive - that guy might be the "pusher.' I don't think he has anything in common with Murray.

OP wants to hear if the basher is worse then the pusher - and the answer is usually not because more often then not that basher destroys themselves.

For practice they can be boring to play with - because they are always trying to bash the ball. But they don't make you feel like you suck at tennis.. That's what defensive players do - they reveal your issues.

 

[LeeD]

Josh, we played against him in doubles, Lefty John, the big guy (6' tall, 220 lbs.) with the straw hat, weak lefty serves, decent fast groundies if the ball is low. He's always laughing when he misses a shot, and sometimes laughs when we miss our shots. He's always head hunting at the opposing net player, and he makes diparaging remarks about all the players at the courts. He's hated by most of the San Pablo Park crowd, especially by JC and Roger, and Noah (4.5+, you didn't meet him).

 

[tennisdad65]

Ball bashers use the Jack Nicklaus philosophy, i.e. " Power first, control later " .. unfortunately, most never achieve control.

 

[LeeD]

Lots of ball bashers play tennis for the love of bashing the ball, the results secondary to the feel of hitting a good shot.
Like art vs science. When you play 100%, it's art. When you play 72%, it's the science of winning tennis.
Do you play tennis to win? Or do you play tennis to hit good shot?
It appears sometimes I can do neither.

 

[movdqa]

If your only aim is to win you might be right but I'd rather enjoy a good match and lose.
It's also not always the quickest one against a basher. I just played with a guy whose second serve was the same as first one because he didn't want to play rallies and he just bashed the ball with every opportunity. The set took much longer than usual because he spends more time than Nadal between his serves and has to get all three balls in his pocket every time and also has to do the towel thing when I serve. Very frustrating.

You should have had an option for OCD players.

What you're calling a ball basher is really just an inconsistent player that happens to hit the ball hard. If someone wants to blow a lot of points in a match to me, I'll have no problem allowing them to beat themselves.

I thought that we were talking about somebody that hits the ball hard and keeps the ball in the court - you know, a good player.

Berdych, Soderling and Del Potro come to mind when I hear the term ball-basher.

 

[President]

Josh, we played against him in doubles, Lefty John, the big guy (6' tall, 220 lbs.) with the straw hat, weak lefty serves, decent fast groundies if the ball is low. He's always laughing when he misses a shot, and sometimes laughs when we miss our shots. He's always head hunting at the opposing net player, and he makes diparaging remarks about all the players at the courts. He's hated by most of the San Pablo Park crowd, especially by JC and Roger, and Noah (4.5+, you didn't meet him).

I remember him. He partnered with Marshall, the tall black guy, against us, right? He seemed like a nice guy, and a pretty damn good player on his groundstrokes. I agree that his serve was surprisingly slow, though still probably faster than 45 mph . I'm surprised that everyone hates him at San Pablo Park.

 

[LeeD]

I think it's all the head hunting he tries, and the remarks he makes to his partner, while playing.
Lately, even I and some of the old RoseGarden buds don't want to play on a court with him. He's constantly saying things like, "this isn't tennis, it's slow doubles", while losing a set. Or, "such a waste of my time, I'd rather come again in the afternoon and play against REAL players, who really hit the ball"....

 

[KineticChain]

i was playing this one ballbasher.. all he did was bash the ball! Bash here, slap there, winner to the left, winner to the right. You know, low level amateur stuff. I ended up losing 0-6 0-6 and when he wanted to shake hands at the end, i gave him some constructive criticism "how is it any fun to play that way? you should be slicing and dinking the ball back to me and wait for opportunities to come to net or slowly guide the ball deep". He said that he plays to win (lame excuse) and that he plays challengers (what ever that means). Yea buddy, typically who ever youre playing is the challenger, and this challenger doesn't appreciate your play style. he also said something about "futures". he probably thought he was a time traveler lol. What a nutcase he was

 

[Sentinel]

i was playing this one ballbasher.. all he did was bash the ball! Bash here

Did you tell him about shellshock ?

 

[Irvin]

Players should respect the ball, their opponents, rackets, courts, spectators, any everything around them. How they play the game whether they are pushers, lobbers, or whatever should not make a difference.

 

[donquijote]

When I say a ball basher I don't mean a high percentage heavy hitter as I clearly explained in the first post. I am a Delpo fan. He is capable of running a 20+ shots quality rally.

What I hate even more about a ball basher is that they don't even know that warm-up time is to warm-up. It's not pleasing to go after and collect every ball these people touch. The last guy I played with could not even feed me at the net during the warm-up. How nice is that!

 

[thomasferrett]

Nope.

A match with a ball basher who is missing is over quickly.

No way.

A true ball-basher (which I see a lot of in my park) hits EVERYTHING as hard as he can. There is one guy who averages not double faulting for only one point in each of his service games just because he ball-bashes his 2nd serve.

Whenever you serve, he just smacks it as hard as he can, and it flies hundreds of meters out of the court, into the net, or, occasionally, for a clean winner.

You hardly ever get a rally of 2 shots because he tries to end everything on the first ball he hits, no exception, no regard to positioning, percentage play, or anything else.

I hate playing this guy because I get no rhythm, no practice, no fun. Sure I win mostly, but I play tennis to get better at tennis, not to win matches because someone is clowning around.

 

[Cowboyardee]

A true ball-basher (which I see a lot of in my park) hits EVERYTHING as hard as he can.
...
You hardly ever get a rally of 2 shots because he tries to end everything on the first ball he hits, no exception, no regard to positioning, percentage play, or anything else.

I hate playing this guy because I get no rhythm, no practice, no fun. Sure I win mostly, but I play tennis to get better at tennis, not to win matches because someone is clowning around.

I don't really want to play an NTRP 2.0 level player pretending he's in a home run derby and seldom hitting the ball in. But I don't really want to play any other kind of 2.0 level player either (nothing against them, it just doesn't make for an interesting game).

A ball basher is just someone whose go-to strategy is to generate pace (rather than focusing on variety, placement, defense, etc). What that means depends on the skill level of the player. A 2.0 'basher' won't look too much like a 4.5 'basher,' cause if the 4.5 level basher couldn't get a decent number of balls in, he wouldn't be a 4.5.

 

[WildVolley]

No way.

A true ball-basher (which I see a lot of in my park) hits EVERYTHING as hard as he can. There is one guy who averages not double faulting for only one point in each of his service games just because he ball-bashes his 2nd serve.

Whenever you serve, he just smacks it as hard as he can, and it flies hundreds of meters out of the court, into the net, or, occasionally, for a clean winner.

But the match is over in a few minutes and then you can play someone else after you win.

If someone hits extremely hard and gets it in the court, then he's just too good of a player for you.

 

[edathompson2]

I'm a ball basher

I wouldn't say I hit everything as hard as I can but I definately hit with pace. I use a western grip, so my ball jumps with extreme topspin. I hit the ball much harder in singles play than doubles.

In doubles I hit looping forehands deep to the corner and back hand I slice back with short angle and then get to the net.

I'm a self-rated 3.0 but everyone here knows I'm not and I expect to move up to 3.5. I've played in singles ladders and only lost to a 4.0 in a third set tie breaker. When I see an open court, I can't help myself. I hit the ball with pace. If I miss, I'm O.K with it. I know eventually by practicing these shots in match play, I'll gain consistency and that's what I need to get to the 4.5 level. Pace and consistency.

If I know the opposing team is going to lob the whole match, I'll blast it to their backhand so they can't lob very well or chip short and move to just beyond the service line.

I do find myself being impatient when someone floats a ball back to the baseline and it's no secret that the local coaches put people against me that use that style of play. But I have yet to lose to that style of play and I do talk about how frustrating that type of play is. So hopefully I'll keep getting pushers, so I can practice putting away shots.

 

[donquijote]

I wouldn't say I hit everything as hard as I can but I definately hit with pace. I use a western grip, so my ball jumps with extreme topspin. I hit the ball much harder in singles play than doubles.

In doubles I hit looping forehands deep to the corner and back hand I slice back with short angle and then get to the net.

I'm a self-rated 3.0 but everyone here knows I'm not and I expect to move up to 3.5. I've played in singles ladders and only lost to a 4.0 in a third set tie breaker. When I see an open court, I can't help myself. I hit the ball with pace. If I miss, I'm O.K with it. I know eventually by practicing these shots in match play, I'll gain consistency and that's what I need to get to the 4.5 level. Pace and consistency.

If I know the opposing team is going to lob the whole match, I'll blast it to their backhand so they can't lob very well or chip short and move to just beyond the service line.

I do find myself being impatient when someone floats a ball back to the baseline and it's no secret that the local coaches put people against me that use that style of play. But I have yet to lose to that style of play and I do talk about how frustrating that type of play is. So hopefully I'll keep getting pushers, so I can practice putting away shots.

You can't be a 3.0 and have a game strategy.

 

[edathompson2]

You can't be a 3.0 and have a game strategy.

Sorry to wreak the laws of your universe.

 

[GuyClinch]

Sorry to wreak the laws of your universe.

Yeah you can have a strategy at 3.0. It's usually like - hit everything to the backhand. Or return everything deep with topspin and so on..

3.0 league players are much stronger then 3.0 self-rated hacks though. League players will sandbag down about .5 level in general..

 

[donquijote]

Yeah you can have a strategy at 3.0. It's usually like - hit everything to the backhand. Or return everything deep with topspin and so on..

3.0 league players are much stronger then 3.0 self-rated hacks though. League players will sandbag down about .5 level in general..

He's saying he hits with extreme speed and topspin using western grip. Sends loopy forehands to corner, then slice and come to the net. A 3.0 cannot have this kind of control in their game and domination. First, any opponent 3.5 and higher will not let this happen and even if they do, a 3.0 is not capable of doing this consistently.
Sending to backhand as a game strategy is totaly different than what he described and even that simple game plan can't be implemented against better (3.5+) players because they won't let it happen.

 

[jaggy]

I hate them

 

[zaph]

They are a pain, for a start, you can't warm up with them. What is the point of going for winners in a warmup? I am hitting the ball into your comfort zone, nuking it is not an achievement.

Then you play, most of the time they self destruct, sometimes they miraculously hit the baseline everytime. Either way, it isn't much fun.

 

[JonC]

If you mean the guy who is real inconsistent but continues to hit hard on everything - yeah, not my ideal match. If the guy is consistent then he's just better than me. Jack sock was hitting 4000+ rpms on his forehands last night - I think that's a negative for the sport but most would disagree.

 

[edathompson2]

He's saying he hits with extreme speed and topspin using western grip. Sends loopy forehands to corner, then slice and come to the net. A 3.0 cannot have this kind of control in their game and domination. First, any opponent 3.5 and higher will not let this happen and even if they do, a 3.0 is not capable of doing this consistently.
Sending to backhand as a game strategy is totaly different than what he described and even that simple game plan can't be implemented against better (3.5+) players because they won't let it happen.

I'm not sure what you're saying about my strategy but you can look me up in USTA and see my record and level.

You'll see I've played in four 3.5 doubles matches and won all but one as a 3.0. and won all my 3.0 doubles matches (six I believe) except at sectionals where I went 1-1.

So clearly what I do, works.

Once again, I'm sorry to wreak your universe as you know it.

If it helps your brain deal with this, I did say I'm moving up to the 3.5 level (pretty sure) at the end of the year.

 

[fuzzfactory]

I wouldn't say I hit everything as hard as I can but I definately hit with pace. I use a western grip, so my ball jumps with extreme topspin. I hit the ball much harder in singles play than doubles.

In doubles I hit looping forehands deep to the corner and back hand I slice back with short angle and then get to the net.

I'm a self-rated 3.0 but everyone here knows I'm not and I expect to move up to 3.5. I've played in singles ladders and only lost to a 4.0 in a third set tie breaker. When I see an open court, I can't help myself. I hit the ball with pace. If I miss, I'm O.K with it. I know eventually by practicing these shots in match play, I'll gain consistency and that's what I need to get to the 4.5 level. Pace and consistency.

If I know the opposing team is going to lob the whole match, I'll blast it to their backhand so they can't lob very well or chip short and move to just beyond the service line.

I do find myself being impatient when someone floats a ball back to the baseline and it's no secret that the local coaches put people against me that use that style of play. But I have yet to lose to that style of play and I do talk about how frustrating that type of play is. So hopefully I'll keep getting pushers, so I can practice putting away shots.

3.0-3.5s don't hit the ball with "extreme topspin" and "pace", unless you mean relatively compared to other 3.0s and 3.5s.

When given the chance, I like hitting with about 85% of my potential power... for better or worse. I'll go with a more powerful and heavy ball with less placement than a slow loopy ball that's better placed. I just like the feeling and the satisfaction of a hard hit!

 

[torpantennis]

I'm not sure what you're saying about my strategy but you can look me up in USTA and see my record and level.

You'll see I've played in four 3.5 doubles matches and won all but one as a 3.0. and won all my 3.0 doubles matches (six I believe) except at sectionals where I went 1-1.

So clearly what I do, works.

Once again, I'm sorry to wreak your universe as you know it.

If it helps your brain deal with this, I did say I'm moving up to the 3.5 level (pretty sure) at the end of the year.

If you win most all of your matches, then you've just rated yourself too low. Of course if a 4.0-level player enters into his first 3.0-3.5 tournaments, he'll be able to do pretty much anything on the court, LOL.

 

[dominikk1985]

playing agressive is fine but Swinging for the fences and only landing 50% of the shots in the court is not Tennis to me. I don't enjoy playing such a Player but I like playing controlled aggressive Players, especially indoors.

 

[donquijote]

I'm not sure what you're saying about my strategy but you can look me up in USTA and see my record and level.

You'll see I've played in four 3.5 doubles matches and won all but one as a 3.0. and won all my 3.0 doubles matches (six I believe) except at sectionals where I went 1-1.

So clearly what I do, works.

Once again, I'm sorry to wreak your universe as you know it.

If it helps your brain deal with this, I did say I'm moving up to the 3.5 level (pretty sure) at the end of the year.

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I just thought that you probably rated yourself too low. Good luck throughout your tennis journey! This is a forum to help each other improve. Sometimes written communication is difficult though.

 

[jiddy-p]

I can't understand this type of player. I played against one a few weeks ago, my first time indoor, under lights and on fast carpet. Never played carpet before. We were just having a social game of doubles.

So we start warming up and the very first ball, the ball you hit to the other guy just to put it into play, he wacks as hard as he can. I think ok he's having a joke. But no, he keeps going for it like this the whole time that we're just warming up. He was clearly a good player when he was maybe ten years younger, but now he's overweight and probably wants to kill everything before it gets into a rally.

The worst part was that his serve was the quickest thing I've personally faced, not that I'm super experienced, but it was fast and very flat. Under the lights on the carpet, I couldn't return his serve. SUCH an unsatisfying session because when I'm playing socially I feel there is an unspoken agreement to keep some rallies going for the sake of practice and enjoyment.

He wore himself out toward the end and couldn't put serves into play anymore. Doubles sucks as it is, but having a 'basher' deprive everyone else of enjoyable rallies is not cool. Not cool at all.

 

[Cowboyardee]

I can't understand this type of player. I played against one a few weeks ago, my first time indoor, under lights and on fast carpet. Never played carpet before. We were just having a social game of doubles.

So we start warming up and the very first ball, the ball you hit to the other guy just to put it into play, he wacks as hard as he can. I think ok he's having a joke. But no, he keeps going for it like this the whole time that we're just warming up. He was clearly a good player when he was maybe ten years younger, but now he's overweight and probably wants to kill everything before it gets into a rally.

The worst part was that his serve was the quickest thing I've personally faced, not that I'm super experienced, but it was fast and very flat. Under the lights on the carpet, I couldn't return his serve. SUCH an unsatisfying session because when I'm playing socially I feel there is an unspoken agreement to keep some rallies going for the sake of practice and enjoyment.

He wore himself out toward the end and couldn't put serves into play anymore. Doubles sucks as it is, but having a 'basher' deprive everyone else of enjoyable rallies is not cool. Not cool at all.

I've played with people who actually get ****ed off or insulted if you take pace off the ball and take it easy on them. IME, this is especially true of competitive, athletic dudes who've played a lot of other sports competitively but are still developing their tennis game.

Ultimately, the dude probably should've picked up on your cues and played in a way that everyone could have fun. Assuming you were giving him some kind of cues. But if you weren't, it's not always as obvious as you might think that you should ease up when hitting with people who are having a hard time with your pace.

 

[edathompson2]

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I just thought that you probably rated yourself too low. Good luck throughout your tennis journey! This is a forum to help each other improve. Sometimes written communication is difficult though.

My feelings were not hurt. I just didn't know how to respond. Other than snarky I'm not lying.

I will say that I have been told I self-rated wrong but I've never been part of the USTA until last fall. I had not played tennis since high school (20 years and I was very competitive). I answered the questions and the computer rated me a 3.0 based upon my answers.

At the time, I didn't even know what the 3.0 rating meant. After playing in the fall and the spring, others have told me i'm a strong 3.5 and weak 4.0. Whatever that means.

I did ask what I should do and was told to play out the season and it will take care of itself. I'm sure that was just the coaches capitlizing on having a ringer on their team.

I've already started "playing up" on a 7.5 combo team (as well as on the 3.5 team earlier). We only have 3.5s and 3.0s on our team. Most of the 3.0s are expected to move up at the end of the year and so are a few 3.5s. I've done well. Losing 2 matches both 8-10 in third set tiebreakers.

I'm looking forward to playing 3.5 as well as 4.0 league play next year. I am definately a ball basher.

 

[torpantennis]

...I'm looking forward to playing 3.5 as well as 4.0 league play next year. I am definately a ball basher.

BUT, will you be able to keep that up, when the better 4.0 opponents keep you off-balanced by moving the ball around? Anybody's a ball basher against a competition weaker than their own level.

 

[Jakesteroni]

Let's play Maxi. I'm just a fat 4.5 looking to hit with a 5.0

 

[5263]

They miss too much but make you look bad when they get lucky.

 

[Maximagq]

Let's play Maxi. I'm just a fat 4.5 looking to hit with a 5.0

Sure, hit me up if you are in LA.

 

[edathompson2]

BUT, will you be able to keep that up, when the better 4.0 opponents keep you off-balanced by moving the ball around? Anybody's a ball basher against a competition weaker than their own level.

Yes. Like I said, I've been playing 7.5 combo and have played against 4.0 players. I've lost both doubles matches in a 3rd set tie break with a 3.5 player as my partner.

I've also played singles matches against two 4.0 players. One beat me in a third set tiebreak 8-10 and the other I beat 6-2, 6-0 (He was a doubles 4.0 player though).

I move very well. And do well when hitting on the run.

 

[GuyClinch]

Eda..

Yeah if you can hit very hard and keep the ball in you are not a basher but a good tennis player.

Basher's believe that they can simply 'overpower' their opponents - they don't have to be consistent because nearly every ball they get back is a winner.

The problem with this theory is that it's spectacularly wrong. Players adjust to high pace players with poor aim and use that against them. So real bashers tend to be losers.

They aren't a problem because their mental approach is flawed. "Pushers" OTOH have the right approach. They determine that their opponent screws up so much that all they merely have to do is return the ball in the court and sooner or later (and its often sooner) their opponent will screw up.

This approach is very successful. In singles a very defensive strategy works well until the 4.0 level - where it starts to require extra-ordinary talent..

Succesfull 'bashers' OTOH are simply good players. They can hit the ball with pace - where they want it to go. They have pace and control (and very often spin).

That's what Federer has..