ET's Ian Vs Green Shirt Hacker

Who wins?

  • Ian to dish out bagel and a stick

    Votes: 8 10.7%
  • Ian Wins

    Votes: 28 37.3%
  • Ian just manages to win

    Votes: 19 25.3%
  • Green shirt teaches Ian a lesson

    Votes: 6 8.0%
  • Green shirt wins

    Votes: 9 12.0%
  • Green shirt shocks the tennis world

    Votes: 5 6.7%

  • Total voters
    75
Did you see the other guy's returns? everyone landed near the service line. got to try to hit the returns deep or to the corners .
Yes. And I've played against weak serves like that. And I was not able to just dominate by hitting deep or to the corners. Because I don't practice that much and when I do, I don't practice that scenario.

So while I perfectly understand what is optimal, I'm limited by how well I can execute.

OTOH, it's easy for me to C&C but given how good Green's passing shots and lobs are, I'm not sure that would be enough.
 
I've got my money on Ian winning convincingly (unless he's playing for drama / youtube views).

1. Ian's job right now is essentially to get better at tennis and show his progress on youtube. While most people work a regular 40 hours to pay for the privilege of playing 4-8 hours of tennis in a week, Ian practices tennis and conditioning as his full-time job along with I'm sure plenty of footage editing. I assume MEP/Green Shirt has a regular job or at least something that takes up other time given that he's commented he only has time/budget for lessons or competitive play and not both. By default, Ian's muscle memory of most shots will be more 'sticky' with how condensed a time period he's getting reps in.

2. Ian absolutely dominated when playing doubles with Kevin against Play Your Court. He has a superior net game to everyone single opponent that has played MEP on Troll's channel, including the NYC 4.5 that recently beat MEP.

3. Ian's smart and tactical, but most importantly he won't beat himself. Against stronger players like Kevin and Ira, Ian is comfortable playing defense. He makes both guys beat him with at least two powerful shots rather than trying to overhit tough balls.

4. Ian's probably a better athlete than most of those guys MEP has played. Again this is because Ian mentioned he's been running and doing conditioning outside of his tennis training, a luxury most of us do not have. Even against Ira, Ian made some really nice hustle plays that got him points. If Ian had to resort to pushing and rally 100 moonballs each point, he'd still be the last man left standing because he's the more in shape guy (imo).
 

Keendog

Professional
Green shirt is at major disadvantage here. Playing a fellow lefty so no natural advantage and his backhand is actutally weaker than Ian's weakest stroke so wont be able to expose that. Green wins most shots either drop shotting or lobbing past the person at the net after bringing them in. Don't see that working a ton on Ian. Plus a foreign indoor court. That said they have the same ranking so should be close-ish
 
Green shirt is at major disadvantage here. Playing a fellow lefty so no natural advantage and his backhand is actutally weaker than Ian's weakest stroke so wont be able to expose that. Green wins most shots either drop shotting or lobbing past the person at the net after bringing them in. Don't see that working a ton on Ian. Plus a foreign indoor court. That said they have the same ranking so should be close-ish
Beyond rating, I think it's a bad matchup for Green: an opponent who has a very good net game [which includes longitudinal movement and OHs]. His ideal opponent is a BLer who tends to overhit and rarely comes to the net.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
Beyond rating, I think it's a bad matchup for Green: an opponent who has a very good net game [which includes longitudinal movement and OHs]. His ideal opponent is a BLer who tends to overhit and rarely comes to the net.
Baseliner who tends to overhit is an ideal opponent for anyone including another BLr who tends to overhit :-D
 

AnyPUG

Semi-Pro
Yes. And I've played against weak serves like that. And I was not able to just dominate by hitting deep or to the corners. Because I don't practice that much and when I do, I don't practice that scenario.

So while I perfectly understand what is optimal, I'm limited by how well I can execute.

OTOH, it's easy for me to C&C but given how good Green's passing shots and lobs are, I'm not sure that would be enough.
so you just use opponent's pace to redirect/block the ball? don't know how to apply your own pace on slow balls to deep corners? See how Ian's fully rotates his core and hits really penetrating shots even on moderate balls from the opponent. Ian is 4.5(or low 5)
 
so you just use opponent's pace to redirect/block the ball? don't know how to apply your own pace on slow balls to deep corners?
Like most people, it's easier to use what's already there [opponent's pace] than to create your own.

And as I've written before, knowing how to do something is different than being able to execute. I fully admit my execution leaves something to be desired even if I know what the optimal play is.

See how Ian's fully rotates his core and hits really penetrating shots even on moderate balls from the opponent. Ian is 4.5(or low 5)
I haven't seen Ian play someone with Green's style. Even against the last 4.0 opponent, that guy hit with plenty of pace.
 

davced1

Professional
Ian is a much better player. I have studied green shirt hacker or MEP (Most Exhausting Player) and he is very predictable in everything he does. It amazes me that he can be so successful just by doing the same thing every match against different opponents. They have to adapt to him he just does his thing everytime. To watch him really is a good guide on how to beat this kind of player and take the best of what MEP do and implement into your own game.

Some things I noticed.

1. MEP never tries to hit winners from the baseline so don't worry about that.
2. When stretched and under pressure he always bunts the ball back. This ball is easy to attack if you have the weapons.
3. He likes to bring you to the net with drop shots to set up the passing shot or lob but there is a good way to counter this. MEP plays the drop shot then position himself well inside the court so he can cover every ball you hit back. What you should do is to play it into the corners so he has to slightly back track. He always tries a lob from this position never a passing shot. He can only pass if he get's a short ball back from the drop shot. So play it deep, corners and wait for the lob. Don't even expect a passing shot so position yourself at the service line and just wait for the lob. Now you should be able to finish the point off.
4. MEP likes to hit some forehand slice. Don't try to hit winners off it. It's tempting but be patient and just bunt it back deep.
5. Attack his serve it's medioker at best. Try to get the upper hand straight off the return.
6. Don't bother coming into the net unless you hit a good approach shot. MEP is good at passing when he has time to set up so stay back be patient and don't give him the oppurtunity.
 
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pencilcheck

Professional
Ian is a much better player. I have studied green shirt hacker or MEP (Most Exhausting Player) and he is very predictable in everything he does. It amazes me that he can be so successful just by doing the same thing every match against different opponents. They have to adapt to him he just does his thing everytime. To watch him really is a good guide on how to beat this kind of player and take the best of what MEP do and implement into your own game.

Some things I noticed.

1. MEP never tries to hit winners from the baseline so don't worry about that.
2. When stretched and under pressure he always bunts the ball back. This ball is easy to attack if you have the weapons.
3. He likes to bring you to the net with drop shots to set up the passing shot or lob but there is a good way to counter this. MEP plays the drop shot then position himself well inside the court so he can cover every ball you hit back. What you should do is to play it into the corners so he has to slightly back track. He always tries a lob from this position never a passing shot. He can only pass if he get's a short ball back from the drop shot. So play it deep, corners and wait for the lob. Don't even expect a passing shot so position yourself at the service line and just wait for the lob. Now you should be able to finish the point off.
4. MEP likes to hit some forehand slice. Don't try to hit winners off it. It's tempting but be patient and just bunt it back deep.
5. Attack his serve it's medioker at best. Try to get the upper hand straight off the return.
6. Don't bother coming into the net unless you hit a good approach shot. MEP is good at passing when he has time to set up so stay back be patient and don't give him the oppurtunity.
MEP has a working plan and he execute it so well that he can keep doing the same thing and win. His opponents that lost to him are those that just like to hit but has no real plan on taking advantage of the geometry of the court, the position of the players, and the mindset of those players.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Some things I noticed.

1. MEP never tries to hit winners from the baseline so don't worry about that.
2. When stretched and under pressure he always bunts the ball back. This ball is easy to attack if you have the weapons.
3. He likes to bring you to the net with drop shots to set up the passing shot or lob but there is a good way to counter this. MEP plays the drop shot then position himself well inside the court so he can cover every ball you hit back. What you should do is to play it into the corners so he has to slightly back track. He always tries a lob from this position never a passing shot. He can only pass if he get's a short ball back from the drop shot. So play it deep, corners and wait for the lob. Don't even expect a passing shot so position yourself at the service line and just wait for the lob. Now you should be able to finish the point off.
4. MEP likes to hit some forehand slice. Don't try to hit winners off it. It's tempting but be patient and just bunt it back deep.
5. Attack his serve it's medioker at best. Try to get the upper hand straight off the return.
6. Don't bother coming into the net unless you hit a good approach shot. MEP is good at passing when he has time to set up so stay back be patient and don't give him the oppurtunity.
0. The first and foremost rule of MEP. He picks lousy, much inferior opponents to play against.
 

Rosstour

Hall of Fame
MEP's best attribute is how little time he needs for his strokes. It takes some skill to be able to bunt everything back with a slice FH.
 

GSG

New User
0. The first and foremost rule of MEP. He picks lousy, much inferior opponents to play against.
Gotta disagree here. TennisTroll has picked the opponent in every match on the channel, and you don't get to pick your opponents in USTA matches, either.
 

AnyPUG

Semi-Pro
The biggest strength is his ability to find joy in playing “ugly”. most get into the trap of style and power and struggle to keep the ball in play.
 
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Johnny505

Rookie
Option 7: Ian has a mental breakdown after playing 4 games in 45 mins and asking himself why am I given up my valuable time for this.
 

Rubens

Hall of Fame
He's not a hacker either.
TO those who think he can only hit slices, watch what he does when the opponent is at net. Yes, lobs, but also... topspin shots. He has absolutely no trouble hitting them. The only difference to most players is that he chooses to use the slice shots as his default shots, instead of using topspin shots.
So in terms of shots, he has decent slices on both sides, decent topspin shots on both sides, more than decent lobs, and a reliable serve. I wouldn't call him a raging shotmaker, but it's not like he has no technique.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
He’s a master of placement. The red shirt!:)


Look at the guy's reaction, anticipation skill. Look at how he is when he's not hitting. Very energy efficient.

He's not a hacker either.
TO those who think he can only hit slices, watch what he does when the opponent is at net. Yes, lobs, but also... topspin shots. He has absolutely no trouble hitting them. The only difference to most players is that he chooses to use the slice shots as his default shots, instead of using topspin shots.
So in terms of shots, he has decent slices on both sides, decent topspin shots on both sides, more than decent lobs, and a reliable serve. I wouldn't call him a raging shotmaker, but it's not like he has no technique.
The Green Shirt (Red Shirt on laundry day) is probably subconsciously smart. He abandoned the chase of obtaining good looking technically sound strokes which is futile for most player. He's concentrating on getting the ball over and doing it with less effort given the speed of the shots in his matches. This makes sense since he can use that energy for running and other things.

Look at this opponent in gray. The guy has a better looking, fuller, technically sound FH but he doesn't maximize it with more pace and spin. It's half-baked developed and ends up even detrimental, ie a full but weak swing that only fatigues the arm and increases mis-hitting due to wider range![/QUOTE]
 
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navigator

Hall of Fame
Ian wins 6/2 6/2. Anyone with patience and a fairly competent all-around net game is going to beat this gentleman without too much incident. You have to abandon the notion of short points and flashy winners. Consistency, smart tactics and solid net play should be sufficient. Problem is that even at 4.5 you find a lot folks that can't put those three together on a consistent basis.
 

AnyPUG

Semi-Pro
He abandoned the chase of obtaining good looking technically sound strokes which is futile for most player
I know quite a few players who are only interested in hitting good looking technically sound strokes and spend 2 hours everyday fine tuning the shots. They have all competed enough for wins in their "earlier lives" - and now just enjoy hitting good looking shots. I believe @BounceHitBounceHit is one of them. (the primary reason is to engage in hard hitting tennis without getting injured which technically sound shots allow)
 

rkelley

Hall of Fame
I know quite a few players who are only interested in hitting good looking technically sound strokes and spend 2 hours everyday fine tuning the shots. They have all competed enough for wins in their "earlier lives" - and now just enjoy hitting good looking shots. I believe @BounceHitBounceHit is one of them. (the primary reason is to engage in hard hitting tennis without getting injured which technically sound shots allow)
Yah, this is me. I call it the "zen-ness of the hit." Ripping balls, good pace and spin, working on that effortless form. When you can string together a high quality, 20 shot rally like that, it's such a high.

Guys like Green Shirt Guy eat me for lunch. I stopped caring years ago - it's just not fun for me, and I play tennis for fun.
 

pencilcheck

Professional
Yah, this is me. I call it the "zen-ness of the hit." Ripping balls, good pace and spin, working on that effortless form. When you can string together a high quality, 20 shot rally like that, it's such a high.

Guys like Green Shirt Guy eat me for lunch. I stopped caring years ago - it's just not fun for me, and I play tennis for fun.
Unfortunately MEP is playing proper tennis, which usually come as a disappointment to most rec players. But the truth is that’s how tennis is being played, not about hitting winners or hitting random shots or only hit CC. His tactics and strategy goes beyond simple ones that most rec players use and that’s why he win more than lose around his level
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Watching that first match made want to kill myself. I felt all the joy literally being sucked out of my being leaving only a black emptiness.

Great job Green Shirt Guy, but I can't watch anymore though because I have too much to live for.
Death by boredom is the worst.
 

Space_D

New User
Anyone else rubbed the wrong way by the YouTube tennis community (not just Ian, several others as well) making tons of videos based on TennisTroll's content? Something about it just doesn't sit right with me.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
Anyone else rubbed the wrong way by the YouTube tennis community (not just Ian, several others as well) making tons of videos based on TennisTroll's content? Something about it just doesn't sit right with me.
I think it will be the most interesting thing he's done in years, he gave credit to the source and they seem okay with it so...
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Watching that first match made want to kill myself. I felt all the joy literally being sucked out of my being leaving only a black emptiness.

Great job Green Shirt Guy, but I can't watch anymore though because I have too much to live for.
Death by boredom is the worst.
I'm surprised that you guys think a match with someone like Green Shirt is boring. Such match tends to be very enjoyable and fun for me because it employs many different elements, cat and mouse stuff, all 8 direction running, twisting and turning, lobbing, chopping,...

Do you guys play matches in 95F heatwave where opponents hit hard most of the time causing you to run until you have trouble breathing? You should hate those matches if you play them.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
I'm surprised that you guys think a match with someone like Green Shirt is boring. Such match tends to be very enjoyable and fun for me because it employs many different elements, cat and mouse stuff, all 8 direction running, twisting and turning, lobbing, chopping,...

Do you guys play matches in 95F heatwave where opponents hit hard most of the time causing you to run until you have trouble breathing? You should hate those matches if you play them.
I don't get it. Green Shirt will make you run more than opponents that hit hard. Opponents that hit hard usually means short points.

FWIW I have played in full sweats in 100+ temps and play in Florida where 95F happens and might not be considered a heat wave and I am still in long sleeves since covid zapped some of my heat tolerance.

Weird that I only see dink shot after dink shot get it back seems to be THE strategy. Ok Green Shirt can hit out when he needs to but "many different elements" I am not seeing that.
 

Rubens

Hall of Fame
Weird that I only see dink shot after dink shot get it back seems to be THE strategy.
That's because it's a tactic that works against MOST rec players. He just went with the probabilities.
Evidently it didn't work in his latest match on youtube because his opponent played an unconventional game as well, which is why green shirt's ass got saaaaaacked, to quote GI Joe.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
I don't get it. Green Shirt will make you run more than opponents that hit hard. Opponents that hit hard usually means short points.

FWIW I have played in full sweats in 100+ temps and play in Florida where 95F happens and might not be considered a heat wave and I am still in long sleeves since covid zapped some of my heat tolerance.

Weird that I only see dink shot after dink shot get it back seems to be THE strategy. Ok Green Shirt can hit out when he needs to but "many different elements" I am not seeing that.
I guess both styles (Green Shirt and hard hitting) can stretch us out to the max if their level is appropriate to our levels.

The difference is whether you prefer a long slow drain (Green Shirt) or a hard sprint, fast drain. If you use the gym you'd know that it'd take equal effort for running 3mph for an hour or 6 mph for 30 minutes. The latter seems alot harder for most folks.

I have played both style opponents. My hard hitting friend/opponent seems more suffocating to me than the easy tricky grinding which is mostly mentally frustrating.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
One big deficiency of modern tennis players is their lack of ball control. Powerful rackets and strings have made it possible to win on pace and spin alone. I watched an Arthur Ashe Day festival at the USO and Federer and Serena showed pretty poor aiming skills when target cones were placed.

In contrast to this, a high-level table tennis player always exhibits great control and power. That is why you have champions like Ma Lin who can smash like crazy, but can also stand 10 feet behind the table and return all smashes. The reason is that in table tennis, you need to play all kinds of guys who survive on trick spins and blocks, and you develop ball control as a result of that.

Rafa and Djokovic are the closest examples in tennis. They have great power, but also great shot tolerance and defensive skills.

It was said of Laver that he could hit a ball from any point on the court to any other point. Modern tennis players don't have these skills developed in the small-head wood era.
 
One big deficiency of modern tennis players is their lack of ball control. Powerful rackets and strings have made it possible to win on pace and spin alone. I watched an Arthur Ashe Day festival at the USO and Federer and Serena showed pretty poor aiming skills when target cones were placed.

In contrast to this, a high-level table tennis player always exhibits great control and power. That is why you have champions like Ma Lin who can smash like crazy, but can also stand 10 feet behind the table and return all smashes. The reason is that in table tennis, you need to play all kinds of guys who survive on trick spins and blocks, and you develop ball control as a result of that.

Rafa and Djokovic are the closest examples in tennis. They have great power, but also great shot tolerance and defensive skills.

It was said of Laver that he could hit a ball from any point on the court to any other point. Modern tennis players don't have these skills developed in the small-head wood era.
Regarding Laver, video or it didn't happen.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Don’t know that but tennis troll said he started playing tennis when he was 32.
So one of the very few genuine recreational players who made it to 4.5 (assuming he was not a significant athlete in any other sport before he started tennis)
 
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