Federer is the one turning around rivalry with Nadal, in his favor.

[federerfanatic]

Alot of people seem to think Nadal is closing the gap on Federer. In reality Federer is turning around his rivalry with Nadal. He has now won 3 of his last 4 matches with Nadal, on 3 different surfaces, after losing 6 of the first 7 including 2 of 3 on hard courts. Here is there head to head in two parts:

Parts 1:

2004 Nasdaq 3rd round: Nadal defeats Federer 6-3 6-3
2005 Miami final: Federer defeats Nadal 2-6 6-7(4) 7-6(5) 6-3 6-1
2005 French Open semis: Nadal defeats Federer 6-3 4-6 6-4 6-3
2005 Dubai final: Nadal defeats Federer 2-6 6-4 6-4
2006 Monte Carlo final: Nadal defeats Federer 6-2 6-7(2) 6-3 7-6(5)
2006 Rome final: Nadal defeats Federer 6-7(0) 7-6(5) 6-4 2-6 7-6(5)
2006 French Open final: Nadal defeats Federer 1-6 6-1 6-4 7-6(4)


Part 2:

2006 Wimbledon final: Federer defeats Nadal 6-0 7-6(5) 6-7(2) 6-3
2006 Year end Masters semis: Federer defeats Nadal 6-4 7-5
2007 Monte Carlo final: Nadal defeats Federer 6-4 6-4
2007 Hamburg final: Federer defeats Nadal 2-6 6-2 6-0
2007 French Open final- Nadal defeats Federer 6-3, 4-6, 6-3, 6-4
2007 Wimbledon final- Federer defeats Nadal 7-6(7), 4-6, 7-6(3), 2-6, 6-2
2007 Masters semis- Federer defeats Nadal 6-4, 6-1

Federer is the one turning the rivalry around in his favor more and more of late, not the other way around. Nadal's one straight sets win on clay came during a horrible Federer slump too, probably the worst slump he has had in over 4 years which included losses to Canas(twice) and Volandri in his other 3 tournaments during that period.

 

[drakulie]

Fed lost the Monte Carlo final. You need to edit your post.

 

[idiotboy]

Point still stands though - good observation.

 

[federerfanatic]

Thanks Drakulie, fixed.

 

[drakulie]

No problem, and I agree with your observation. Fed has been taking it to Nadal. Still, I want to see him win the French. To me, that is the one that counts right now for Fed. Not necessarly because of the rivalry between him and Nadal, but to put a stamp on his own legacy.

 

[federerfanatic]

No problem, and I agree with your observation. Fed has been taking it to Nadal. Still, I want to see him win the French. To me, that is the one that counts right now for Fed. Not necessarly because of the rivalry between him and Nadal, but to put a stamp on his own legacy.

Yeah I think Fed has begun to play with more defined intentions in recent matchups with Nadal. He always had the game to beat Nadal, but he is starting to understand how to use it effectively vs that particular player.

However mostly I agree with you that winning the French Open is huge for Federer to further cement his legacy. I certainly dont want him to end up like Sampras and Connors, winning all but the French.

 

[drakulie]

Yup, with or without the French, to me, he is the greatest player I've ever seen. The French would be sweet.

I really enjoyed watching the match today and seeing the tactics emplyed by Fed>>> roll the ball to Nadal's FH, step in and take his reply down the line. beautiful! He needs to fix that service problem though.

 

[FedFan_2007]

Federer has played some of the most sublime tennis ever, even if he never wins the French he's GOAT.

 

[sureshs]

Actually, Nadal said his win over Federer at MC this year was easier than before. According to Nadal, he has improved but not Fed. See his Hamburg interview today.

 

[BigServer1]

Actually, Nadal said his win over Federer at MC this year was easier than before. According to Nadal, he has improved but not Fed. See his Hamburg interview today.

Well if Fed hasn't improved and he still beat Nadal today I would hate for you to have to watch Fed raise his level. Maybe he'd feed Nadal two bagels.

 

[sureshs]

Well if Fed hasn't improved and he still beat Nadal today I would hate for you to have to watch Fed raise his level. Maybe he'd feed Nadal two bagels.

I think Nadal knows what he is talking about. He is very respectful towards Federer (see the rest of the interview) and just says it as it is. Fed has bageled Nadal before.

 

[drakulie]

Well if Fed hasn't improved and he still beat Nadal today I would hate for you to have to watch Fed raise his level. Maybe he'd feed Nadal two bagels.

LOL> Actually, regardless of what Nadal and suresh state, fact is Fed has narrowed the gap on clay. Nadal hasn't narrowed the Gap on hard, or grass.

 

[sureshs]

LOL> Actually, regardless of what Nadal and suresh state, fact is Fed has narrowed the gap on clay. Nadal hasn't narrowed the Gap on hard, or grass.

Since the gap on grass is 1, nothing too much to narrow there.

Nadal has narrowed the gap on grass by 0.5.

I will leave it as a homework exercise for you to figure that one out.

BTW, interesting by-product of your argument is that all surfaces are important! Which means neither Sampras nor Federer is the GOAT.

 

[boojay]

Since the gap on grass is 1, nothing too much to narrow there.

Nadal has narrowed the gap on grass by 0.5.

I will leave it as a homework exercise for you to figure that one out.

BTW, interesting by-product of your argument is that all surfaces are important! Which means neither Sampras nor Federer is the GOAT.

I'd say the gap is quite large if you consider how many clay finals Fed's made in comparison to how many grass finals Nadal's made.

It's not Fed's fault he's capable of advancing consistently to finals on all surfaces and Nadal can't. It's not Fed's fault that Nadal has an unusual affinity for bagels (regardless of surface). Federer will certainly be the GOAT when it's all said and done. Nadal will just be a goat (who likes to have bagels for breakfast, lunch, and dinner).

 

[drakulie]

Since the gap on grass is 1, nothing too much to narrow there.

Nadal has narrowed the gap on grass by 0.5.

I will leave it as a homework exercise for you to figure that one out.

Nice try. Try again.

BTW, interesting by-product of your argument is that all surfaces are important! Which means neither Sampras nor Federer is the GOAT.

I do believe all surfaces are important, and I have contended for a long time that regardless of the numbers>> to me, Fed is the best player I have evern seen between the lines.

Your point is what?

 

[drakulie]

Nadal will just be a goat (who likes to have bagels for breakfast, lunch, and dinner).

That's actually good he will be a goat. He could milk himself and make goat cheese for his bagels. LOL

 

[boojay]

That's actually good he will be a goat. He could milk himself and make goat cheese for his bagels. LOL

How convenient!


........and disturbing.

 

[OrangeOne]

Yup, with or without the French, to me, he is the greatest player I've ever seen.

Agreed as well.

The French would be sweet.

Wouldn't it what. I hadn't thought of it until a news article the other day, but not only would it be a career-slam, but a 'Federer-slam' in that he'd hold all four concurrently. I realised this last year, and just hadn't consciously thought of it again this year.

Amazing if he pulls it off.

I really enjoyed watching the match today and seeing the tactics emplyed by Fed>>> roll the ball to Nadal's FH, step in and take his reply down the line. beautiful! He needs to fix that service problem though.

I *must* get pay TV so I can start watching these matches, I really must. Seeing the slams only is killing me!

 

[BigServer1]

Since the gap on grass is 1, nothing too much to narrow there.

Nadal has narrowed the gap on grass by 0.5.

I will leave it as a homework exercise for you to figure that one out.

BTW, interesting by-product of your argument is that all surfaces are important! Which means neither Sampras nor Federer is the GOAT.

LOL! Do you really count that exhibition as a half a grass win for Nadal? You are more insane than I thought. Let's see...exhibition in MALLORCA, SPAIN, a third set tiebreak that went 12-10...wow.

I guess by this logic Federer has a 3-2 edge on Hard Court, due to that exhibition win in Seoul, Korea in 2006...

 

[boojay]

LOL! Do you really count that exhibition as a half a grass win for Nadal? You are more insane than I thought. Let's see...exhibition in MALLORCA, SPAIN, a third set tiebreak that went 12-10...wow.

I guess by this logic Federer has a 3-2 edge on Hard Court, due to that exhibition win in Seoul, Korea in 2006...

Cut him some slack BigServer, his favorite player just got bageled on his best surface.

 

[Zaragoza]

I will start the part 2 in 2006 (not in the middle of 2006) so Nadal leads 5-3 in the part 2. The "Federer has figured how to play Nadal" theories are a non-sense. Federer played great after the 1st set and Nadal wasn´t at his best mentally and phisically so Federer was the better player yesterday. When you´re not 100 % and you play against a brilliant player you lose, simple as that. Nadal will rest this week and I think it will be different if they meet at the FO and play a best of 5 sets match with Nadal being phisically and mentally at his best. I don´t expect Murray to beat Federer next time if you know what I mean, one match is one match.

 

[Baghdatis72]

If Federer beats Nadal at the French Open final (if they manage to go there) and then wins Wimbledon and the US Open you could say that he turned it around and exorcised his demons for good. Whatever happens next year is irrelevant if he manages to do the Grand Slam this year as that is the ultimate achievement for a tennis player.

 

[BigServer1]

I will start the part 2 in 2006 (not in the middle of 2006) so Nadal leads 5-3 in the part 2. The "Federer has figured how to play Nadal" theories are a non-sense. Federer played great after the 1st set and Nadal wasn´t at his best mentally and phisically so Federer was the better player yesterday. When you´re not 100 % and you play against a brilliant player you lose, simple as that. Nadal will rest this week and I think it will be different if they meet at the FO and play a best of 5 sets match with Nadal being phisically and mentally at his best. I don´t expect Murray to beat Federer next time if you know what I mean, one match is one match.

Yeah, one match is one match, but Federer has beaten Nadal 3 out of the last 4 times they have played. This is on a whole new level from last year when the h2h was 5-1 (on this date last year). To say Fed hasn't caught up, at least a bit, is insane. He went from 6-1 to 7-4. If they play a few more times this year it wouldn't surprise me at all to see the h2h at 7-7 or 8-6. I'll take than any day over 6-1.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Yeah, one match is one match, but Federer has beaten Nadal 3 out of the last 4 times they have played. This is on a whole new level from last year when the h2h was 5-1 (on this date last year). To say Fed hasn't caught up, at least a bit, is insane. He went from 6-1 to 7-4. If they play a few more times this year it wouldn't surprise me at all to see the h2h at 7-7 or 8-6. I'll take than any day over 6-1.

Indoors and Grass play very similar and the clay wasn't bouncing at high as the usual clay out there. Yeah Fed now has hope as if the court favors Fed's game against Nadal he likely will win. I would have to see Fed beat Nadal on the high bouncing courts of Roland Garros before I say he has turned it around.

 

[federerfanatic]

I will start the part 2 in 2006 (not in the middle of 2006) so Nadal leads 5-3 in the part 2. The "Federer has figured how to play Nadal" theories are a non-sense.

Whine and make excuses all you want. Federer has won 3 of his last 4 meetings with Nadal, after losing 6 of the first 7. That includes a straight sets win on hard courts, when he had lost twice and won in 5 tough sets the previous 3, and a win on clay. That constitutes a turnaround period.

Federer played great after the 1st set and Nadal wasn´t at his best mentally and phisically so Federer was the better player yesterday.

If one uses the "wasnt at his best" excuse I could say that about alot of Fed's losses to Nadal too.

Nadal will rest this week and I think it will be different if they meet at the FO and play a best of 5 sets match with Nadal being phisically and mentally at his best. I don´t expect Murray to beat Federer next time if you know what I mean, one match is one match.

Yes and 3 matches out of the last 4, is 3 matches out of last 4. Now go crawl back under your rock troll.

 

[Zaragoza]

Whine and make excuses all you want. Federer has won 3 of his last 4 meetings with Nadal, after losing 6 of the first 7. That includes a straight sets win on hard courts, when he had lost twice and won in 5 tough sets the previous 3, and a win on clay. That constitutes a turnaround period.



If one uses the "wasnt at his best" excuse I could say that about alot of Fed's losses to Nadal too.



Yes and 3 matches out of the last 4, is 3 matches out of last 4. Now go crawl back under your rock troll.

1st, I see you don´t know the difference between points of view and excuses, that´s typical from fanatics.
2nd, I´m not going to waste my time discussing with an unclassy poster.
3rd, welcome to my ignore list. You´re the only one at the moment, so be proud that you´re the most fanatic fan out there.

 

[Fetus Gerulaitis]

For the longest time, everybody has been talking about how Nadal is really getting into Federer's head and that, mentally, the world's number one player does not believe he can beat Nadal on clay. I definitely agree with the original post and think that Federer is starting to get into Nadal's head with each passing match. In the most recent match in Hamburg, Federer dominated the last two sets so thoroughly that it must be Nadal the one who is having second thoughts about his possibilities in this rivalry. Federer's forehand was dominant and was pushing Nadal not only from side to side, but also forcing him to back up in the court. When it comes to the French Open, if anyone, it is Federer that seems to have the advantage. I think that all of the silly talk about Federer not being able to win another major was just that: silly talk.

 

[Swingin Richard]

I think it's funny that Fed fans are getting all worked up about him finally beating a 20 year old kid. Roger is in the prime of his career. It's sad that he is still behind 7-4 head to head. When Fed was Rafa's age, he had maybe 1 minor title under his belt.

 

[drakulie]

Roger is in the prime of his career.

So is Nadal. Or you seriously think he will "best" 81 matches on clay later in his career?

 

[Nadal_Freak]

So is Nadal. Or you seriously think he will "best" 81 matches on clay later in his career?

Some of it was luck. (Coria and Federer in Rome) Nadal will be a beast on clay for a long time whether you like it or not.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Maybe because Fed was a late bloomer.Nadal will be burnout come 25 or even sooner.He doesnt blast winners left and right like Fed does.

 

[dh003i]

I think it's funny that Fed fans are getting all worked up about him finally beating a 20 year old kid. Roger is in the prime of his career. It's sad that he is still behind 7-4 head to head. When Fed was Rafa's age, he had maybe 1 minor title under his belt.

This is always brought up by some people, as if Nadal has unlimited potential to improve his game exponentially, because he's 20, and because of how much Federer improved his game from 20 to 25. They have different games, which tend to mature at different times.

Nadal is in the prime of his career right now, as is Federer. They are in their primes in different ages because they have different kinds of games.

 

[drakulie]

Some of it was luck. (Coria and Federer in Rome) Nadal will be a beast on clay for a long time whether you like it or not.

He wasn't a beast yesterday. He looked tired from eating all those bagels. He needs to get in shape, and switch to a larger frame.

 

[OrangeOne]

This is always brought up by some people, as if Nadal has unlimited potential to improve his game exponentially, because he's 20, and because of how much Federer improved his game from 20 to 25. They have different games, which tend to mature at different times.

Nadal is in the prime of his career right now, as is Federer. They are in their primes in different ages because they have different kinds of games.

^^Agreed. Some people peak early (eg. Becker), some people peak later (eg. Rafter), and some people have multiple peaks (eg. Agassi).

Now that I think: I don't think anyone who saw Agassi playing as a teen would have thought he'd re-invent to a more compact, flatter, placement & movement-oriented game later in his career, so I guess anything's possible. That said, his earlier game was based on Flash & Winners, not based on grinding....

 

[OrangeOne]

He wasn't a beast yesterday. He looked tired from eating all those bagels. He needs to get in shape, and switch to a larger frame.

Drak drak drak.... I think you're forgetting that people outside of the racquets forums do get a whole-lot less 'nutty' about frame size

On a serious note, for your sake I hope Nadal doesn't rock up and win W with a 107 or a 110, you'd be eating humble pie for life!

 

[fastdunn]

There is no question that Federer is improving "his game against Nadal on clay".
It would take a player with no talent not to improve while playing
against (and losing to) Nadal repeatedly on clay.

But in overall, Note that Nadal vastly improved his slam performaces
in Australian, Wimbledon, and US Open.


And also I'm highly skeptical that Federer will eventually turn the table
in terms of his records against Nadal. It's just not a good macth up.

Hewitt and Davydenko with 2hbh do not get bothered by high rollers over
their backhand, For example. Federer has good footwork. but he can not
run like Hewitt or Davydenko for a full 3-5 sets.
He is a fabulous ball striker but not exactly can do "hit-on-the-rise" like
Blake or Davydenko.

Federer will have problem with this special lefty Nadal until the end of his
career.

Plus he is turning 26 pretty soon.


If Federer ends his career without French, it's not becasue he does not
have game one clay. He is one of the greatest clay courters I've seen.
He is very unlucky to have Nadal as #2 in his career...

 

[drakulie]

Drak drak drak.... I think you're forgetting that people outside of the racquets forums do get a whole-lot less 'nutty' about frame size

On a serious note, for your sake I hope Nadal doesn't rock up and win W with a 107 or a 110, you'd be eating humble pie for life!

That's OK. I'm just enjoying rubbing the racquet thing in everyones face for now. Remember all those threads in the General Pro Player section about Fed's frame size, and how he should switch to a larger frame? Nadal Freak was one of them.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Fed wont turn around the record because Nadal doesnt get to the finals alot.He is still inconsistent with that.I hope Nadal can do something in the second half of the tennis season and not dissapear, like he does.That head to head would be even if they played more on hardcourts.

 

[@wright]

In two years, we probably won't even remember who this Nadal person is...and Federer will still be winning multiple slams per year.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

In two years, we probably won't even remember who this Nadal person is...and Federer will still be winning multiple slams per year.

You are quickly becoming one of the biggest trolls on this board.

 

[fastdunn]

Fed wont turn around the record because Nadal doesnt get to the finals alot.He is still inconsistent with that.I hope Nadal can do something in the second half of the tennis season and not dissapear, like he does.That head to head would be even if they played more on hardcourts.

That is correct. But if Nadal meets Federer at finals of big hard court
tournaments, that means he has improved greatly on hard courts.

 

[drakulie]

You are quickly becoming one of the biggest trolls on this board.

In the same way Nadal has a long way to go in catching up with Fed's slams count, it will be quite a while before anyone will catch you in the troll department.

 

[tricky]

I'd have to eat my own words about Fed's preparedness for the FO. I'm not sure what happened after Roche, but he's playing like the top 2 clay court player in the world. Beating 3 FO champions in a row is mighty impressive, no? Now if he can do something about that service game of his . . .

In any case, what was most telling was he started to step into Nadal's FH with his 1H BH. On clay. I think that's amazing, because I really didn't think he could do that without driving up the UEs. It's the 2nd straight matchup with Nadal on clay where his BH was solid.

 

[OrangeOne]

Can we just imagine...

If it wasn't for the fact that there are 700000 threads on Fed-Nadal right now, I'd create this as one...

Imagine, just imagine, if Federer were, for the next 2 years, to start dominating on clay the way he has on grass?

Scary. I'm not saying it's even likely. I'm not saying I even want it to happen. But it'd be freaky if it did!

 

[drakulie]

^^ He just might.

 

[tricky]

Scary. I'm not saying it's even likely. I'm not saying I even want it to happen. But it'd be freaky if it did!

If he did, tennis may seriously considering rewriting the rules to keep him from winning. Hey, we may have to go back to wood!

Fact is, if it weren't for one guy -- ONE GUY -- Fed may have already won 2 grand slams.

 

[@wright]

What would happen if someone admitted to being a troll? Would the TW universe tear into pieces? Could it be that trolling is fun sometimes?

 

[fastdunn]

I'd have to eat my own words about Fed's preparedness for the FO. I'm not sure what happened after Roche, but he's playing like the top 2 clay court player in the world.

He did recovered some but I wouldn't rate it as "#2 clay courter" level.
The way his serve going on and off. And the footwork and all the mis-firings
of ground strokes. The way he struggled against Ferrer and Moya.
No where near where was in 2006.

Last 2 sets of the Hamburg final weren't really about Federer's taking charge.
It was more about Nadal's unforced errors (which was very unusual).
I really did not get the impression that Nadal was pushed hard.
I persoanlly think Nadal decided to tank after he failed to convert a few break points
at the beginning of the 2nd set.

Even with a top form, Federer was going to be defeated by Nalbandian
at semi final last year. I think he needs some luck(like easy draw) to reach
quarter-final this year, IMHO.

 

[dh003i]

fastdunn,

That's wishful thinking. No way Nalbandian was going to beat Federer. Federer has dominated their recent match-ups, and was winning when Nalbandian retired (also, staying healthy is a part of the game; the way they used to play, there weren't even any injury timeouts).

Federer played some pretty good tennis in Hamburg. He beat some top claycourt players -- former FO champions -- and played really well against Nadal in the final. Everyone who watched said Federer played really well.

Maybe overall this claycourt season, he isn't at the level of last year. But he seems to be back at that level, possibly better. Last year, he didn't beat Nadal in a final. That already makes this year's claycourt season better than last year's.

And if Federer isn't the #2 clay-court player, who is?

 

[MoFed]

Nadal is a grinder. He runs everything down on the court. If he doesn't change his style he will wear himself out sooner rather than later. This is part of the reason he doesn't have a lot left in the tank when the end of the year rolls around. I think he makes the push on clay because he can earn a lot of points during the clay season and still stay the no. 2 player.

You could see Nadal's defeat on clay coming the last couple of tournaments. He was being pushed around by Hewitt and Davydenko. Two players who should have defeated him they were playing so well and then choked. He didn't get the choke factor from Fed this time.