- Status
Ann
Hall of Fame
I remember back in April and into May how no one here wanted Fred to play the French Open or clay season at all because he'd get injured. Fred not only played the FO and not only did he not get injured he made it to the semi-finals.
There were many then, who thought that while clay was a success he blew his chances at Wimbledon because he wouldn't have time to adjust to grass and because of clay - who knew how tired he was. Every match at Halle people complained that he looked like **** that he might not even win Halle and would tank at Wimbledon.
The GOAT did win Halle, improving with every match. Then at Wimbledon, everyone said they'd be ecstatic if he made it to the QF. He made it easily and won. Then everyone thought he'd get crushed by Nadal, instead he crushed Nadal.
THEN everyone said everything after that was gravy. They just hoped he didn't get destroyed in the final by Djoker. Instead he played 5 hours and lost - just - barely.
WHAT THE HELL, PEOPLE!
The man has exceeded all expectations every step of the way. He's looked amazing. His health is perfect. His game if phenomenal and by the time Cincy is finished he could be #2 in the world.
COME ON! I feel like celebrating this season. I'm so thrilled with everything Fred has done. This season has already turned out to be so much more than I ever dreamed of.
There were many then, who thought that while clay was a success he blew his chances at Wimbledon because he wouldn't have time to adjust to grass and because of clay - who knew how tired he was. Every match at Halle people complained that he looked like **** that he might not even win Halle and would tank at Wimbledon.
The GOAT did win Halle, improving with every match. Then at Wimbledon, everyone said they'd be ecstatic if he made it to the QF. He made it easily and won. Then everyone thought he'd get crushed by Nadal, instead he crushed Nadal.
THEN everyone said everything after that was gravy. They just hoped he didn't get destroyed in the final by Djoker. Instead he played 5 hours and lost - just - barely.
WHAT THE HELL, PEOPLE!
The man has exceeded all expectations every step of the way. He's looked amazing. His health is perfect. His game if phenomenal and by the time Cincy is finished he could be #2 in the world.
COME ON! I feel like celebrating this season. I'm so thrilled with everything Fred has done. This season has already turned out to be so much more than I ever dreamed of.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
@acintya He's said he will play Cincy prior to the USO and skip Montreal.
Edhead-Fedhead
Hall of Fame
Tennis_Hands
Banned
..
Last edited:
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Just some Belgian dude who posted it on his social media, a chance encounter. He said Roger, Mirka and the twins were laughing and eating Raclette.
He could have lost to Roddick in 09, don't forget. You win some, you lose some.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
That break point at 11-11 has gone super under the radar btw. That shot haunts me too. He had a free look at a forehand with Novak up at the net (his least comfortable position). And he just kinda rolled it in cross-court, making it super easy for Novak to cut off. He should've hit it way harder and probably should've gone right at him up the middle too. Make Novak prove he can fight off a volley to the body.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
Fwiw I didn't want him playing clay, not because I thought he'd get injured, but because the risk of injury wasn't worth the potential reward (he was never going to win RG).
And I'm still worried about how it'll affect him down the stretch. We won't know all the effects until the season has ended.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
This whole post.
Fed getting to the final, even though he lost, was a moral victory over every other player on tour who couldn't get close - and beating Nadal was just epic, throwing tons of doubt on the whole H2H arguments. If two guys who - admittedly - are near the end of their prime can't beat or can only just beat a guy who is 5 years past his prime after saving match points then it's all good imo. Fed just showed that he's got plenty left in the tank on the right day and he'll take a lot of heart from this himself.
acintya
Legend
thanksCincy.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Agree with your post but Fed is more than 5 years past his prime.This whole post.
Fed getting to the final, even though he lost, was a moral victory over every other player on tour who couldn't get close - and beating Nadal was just epic, throwing tons of doubt on the whole H2H arguments. If two guys who - admittedly - are near the end of their prime can't beat or can only just beat a guy who is 5 years past his prime after saving match points then it's all good imo. Fed just showed that he's got plenty left in the tank on the right day and he'll take a lot of heart from this himself.
FatFedererFanTurnsSlim
Semi-Pro
Have gone through a 6 day detox of basically the entire internet. I still haven't gotten over it. I didn't feel this sad even after AO 09. I thought I was over "feeling" sad about sports but turns out I'm not. Still hurts.
ForehandRF
Legend
Maybe that's because you knew at the time that Fed had many years ahead to avenge that loss and win more slams
ForehandRF
Legend
The problem with Fed in his 30s vs Novak was also that he failed to have the same mental approach as in the 2011 RG SF.
Rogfan
Professional
Couldn’t agree with you more. Well said!
When people say Fed doesn’t have anything to prove, surely they mean HE DOESNT HAVE ANYTHING TO PROVE? Then why would that game be the ‘most important game’ of his career? Why would this match hurt his legacy? The answer is no it wouldn’t.
People, please move on and please don’t engage in those meaningless GOAT debates anymore. I feel it’s a bit embarrassing some Fed fans are now saying slam count is not the only measure for GOAT. You might never believe so in the past but saying it now only makes all Fed fans look super salty
FatFedererFanTurnsSlim
Semi-Pro
Maybe that's because you knew at the time that Fed had many years ahead to avenge that loss and win more slams
Not really. 28 was typically the age when players went into irreversible decline. Plus, Rafa reinforced his hold in Fed's mind. I genuinely feared he mightn't even break Sampras' record. Plus back in 2009, we didn't know everyone born post-88 is going to be a "mug". Historically, there was always a young cub who put old lions to pasture. Hasn't happened for 10 years. Despite all that I wasn't as sad as I was on Sunday. Even though I had counted this tourney as a win after beating Rafa & made up my mind the moment after Federer punched air on Friday that Djokovic is the likeliest winner on Sunday night. The manner of his loss filled me with 50% pride, 50% anger & 50% sadness. Still hurts.
Ann
Hall of Fame
The first part I couldn't agree with more.
The second part, oh boy.
I've NEVER believed slam count was the only indicator of GOAThood and I've only believed that because it's never been. The whole slam count is everything was constructed by the tennis media to make the weakest era in history seem interesting. Before men's tennis went to **** most were proclaiming Fred GOAT before he beat Sampras' count. I'm not going to let these little ****stains on here continue to make rubbish statements without pushback. If some Fedfans here proclaimed Fred was GOAT because he had the slam count, that was their mistake. There is no honesty here or in the tennis media, if there were people would recognize/admit that Rafa is an ATG and the King of Clay, nothing more and Novak is an ATG and weak era vulture and nothing more.
Last edited:
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Roger was 29 years old in that 2011 FO semi, not 38. There's such a huge difference between those two ages. His mental block against Djokovic is as big as the block was against Nadal for all those years. The difference is, he's too old to solve this issue. I said 2 years ago he'd never beat Djokovic again and this may turn out to be so. He should have won the Paris semi last year, but choked in the third set TB-er.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
My husband said to me this morning, "how are you feeling? It's the week anniversary of Roger blowing it." I said, "no, tomorrow is the week anniversary, thanks for reminding me," then I started feeling sad again. Five hours of agonizing tension, resulting in a loss. I keep having these horrible thoughts that he'll make the final of the USO, hold Championship Points again against Novak and lose again. If that happens.... GOD!
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Reflecting on Agassi's remarks about Fed in 2005:
"Roger is the best I've ever played against. There's nowhere to go. Roger makes you play on the edge. You need to play the craziest tennis you've ever played. Pete Sampras was great. I mean, no question. But there was a place to get to with Pete, you knew what you had to do. If you did it, it could be on your terms. There's no such place like that with Roger."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/usopen/2365240/Federer-the-best-ever-says-Agassi.html
"Roger is the best I've ever played against. There's nowhere to go. Roger makes you play on the edge. You need to play the craziest tennis you've ever played. Pete Sampras was great. I mean, no question. But there was a place to get to with Pete, you knew what you had to do. If you did it, it could be on your terms. There's no such place like that with Roger."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/usopen/2365240/Federer-the-best-ever-says-Agassi.html
Breakpointerer
Legend
He's lost a lot of matches holding MPs in the last 2 years or so but I fervently hoped it wouldn't happen in a GS final... Oh well.My husband said to me this morning, "how are you feeling? It's the week anniversary of Roger blowing it." I said, "no, tomorrow is the week anniversary, thanks for reminding me," then I started feeling sad again. Five hours of agonizing tension, resulting in a loss. I keep having these horrible thoughts that he'll make the final of the USO, hold Championship Points again against Novak and lose again. If that happens.... GOD!
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
These tiebreaks have all been downhill since he shanked that set point in the first set of Paris. I don't think he's really come close to winning one since. Seems like he goes down a mini-break early and the hole is too big to dig out of because Novak will offer literally no free points in big spots.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
My favorite Andre quote came during the USO match with Roddick that he guest commentated on:
"When a champion has two things they can count on out there as best in the world, they're a dominant champion. I think Roger has closer to 5."
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
.
Last edited by a moderator:
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Fed yesterday in Lenzeirheide with a group of kids who swarmed him and asked for a pic. Roger complied!
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
To be honest, and I have plenty of time to think about it. I think Fed has always struggled in key moments, but his skill and level of play would figure it out (similar to AO17 final game), but as he ages, he struggles more to overcome these mental struggles.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
It's just frustrating to me because over the course of a long match, he should be plenty confident. If he's playing well enough to keep reaching tiebreakers and not get broken by the greatest returner ever, he should be feeling good about his game and ready to ball out.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
Breakpointerer
Legend
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Things are positive in Rafa land April-June. The chances are pretty high he will either be "injured" or sit out some of the rest of the year, as he often does. I seriously doubt he'll be a factor until the AO 2021. That's his usual pattern, though 2013 and 2017 were notable exceptions.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, to be fair, this is the worst moment in fed's almost 20 year career. I think it is fair to say it's tough for everyone in here.
I think most people in here (including me) would have been totally okay and saw this WC as a positive had he lost in the 5th and never broke back. But things are different when you get so close.
Good news, Fed still is showing he can get those opportunities at this point in his career. So I am just going to move on and hope he can find some old USO Fed days.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Yeah I mean I totally get why people are taking the loss brutally.
I've just decided to take the positives out of it and put it in the past.
TheIntrovert
Hall of Fame
Still being upset about that match is not healthy level of fandom at all. So what if he lost? How would your day to day life have been different had he won? I was upset over it for a few hours, but the next day was totally over it. Life goes on. He missed another slam. Oh well. He has 20 others to keep himself happy. Why would I let my own mood and life be affected because someone I don’t know didn’t hit an ace.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Yep, yep, yep. Only way to continue watching and coming here is by basically forgetting that match. I mean I see this WC as he beat rafa at 38 in a slam SF and lost to a dominant Djoker in the finals.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Why bother watching Fed matches at all if it's immaterial if he wins or loses? I agree with much of what you're saying, but wouldn't question the fandom of others or think it's unhealthy that some take the loss so hard. Let's face it, it was the worst lost ever for a Fed fan to digest. Holding Championship points in a Wimbledon final (on his serve) and losing it is brutal. And if some people are taking it harder than others, that's OK. I'm happy for this moment and try to focus on that instead of the final outcome.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Happiest moment of the tennis season for me, that semi.Why bother watching Fed matches at all if it's immaterial if he wins or loses? I agree with much of what you're saying, but wouldn't question the fandom of others or think it's unhealthy that some take the loss so hard. Let's face it, it was the worst lost ever for a Fed fan to digest. Holding Championship points in a Wimbledon final (on his serve) and losing it is brutal. And if some people are taking it harder than others, that's OK. I'm happy for this moment and try to focus on that instead of the final outcome.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Me too!!! By far!! Dubai final would be next, then Miami final, then beating Coric on the clay.
TheIntrovert
Hall of Fame
It does matter. But it doesn’t matter to the point I will let myself be bogged down by it after a week. That in my eyes, it just not a healthy level of fandom.Why bother watching Fed matches at all if it's immaterial if he wins or loses? I agree with much of what you're saying, but wouldn't question the fandom of others or think it's unhealthy that some take the loss so hard. Let's face it, it was the worst lost ever for a Fed fan to digest. Holding Championship points in a Wimbledon final (on his serve) and losing it is brutal. And if some people are taking it harder than others, that's OK. I'm happy for this moment and try to focus on that instead of the final outcome.
And that’s a perfect way of looking at it. Focus on the positives instead of letting yourself get down by the negatives. All I’m saying is that in my opinion, there’s a limit to how much you want to let a tennis match result affect your life. After a while you’ve gotta accept what happened and like you said, focus on the bright side.
Breakpointerer
Legend
Yeah me too, although I have Miami above Dubai just bc he hadn't won a big title for a long time. Then again, Dubai was the 100th title, so it was pretty special.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
True, but for me it took a lot longer than a few hours as you said. My life was fine, but I also chose not to talk, think, or post about tennis for a week. Nothing wrong with getting emotional about a hobby.
Without emotion it is less fun. I have said this before, it is the emotion that grabs me to fandom, not the actual wins. Wins are the goal, but the ride is the fun part.
Breakpointerer
Legend
This. It's precisely why I regard AO17 final as the greatest experience I have ever had as a fan of sport.Not just the result, but the whole journey of thinking he was done in 2016 to watching him lift the trophy.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
I hope I can get to the point where I can enjoy re-living that match. It's still kinda hard for me to enjoy watching highlights of his 2015 SF masterclass because I can't help but think of the final.Why bother watching Fed matches at all if it's immaterial if he wins or loses? I agree with much of what you're saying, but wouldn't question the fandom of others or think it's unhealthy that some take the loss so hard. Let's face it, it was the worst lost ever for a Fed fan to digest. Holding Championship points in a Wimbledon final (on his serve) and losing it is brutal. And if some people are taking it harder than others, that's OK. I'm happy for this moment and try to focus on that instead of the final outcome.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
It hasn't even been a week...
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Now this is true. I love watching his great matches over again, but these two are attached, so it will be a while till I can. I could be wrong, but I feel like if I rewatch it, I will see that Fed truly dominated Rafa. I could be wrong though.
TheIntrovert
Hall of Fame
Well there goes my whole viewpoint ....
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
Because your viewpoint doesn't even make sense. This was Wimbledon; the Holy Grail of tennis. It's the biggest event, and our favorite player's best event. At possibly his last chance to win it, we saw it get ripped away in the most painful way possible. How could we not still be upset about it? If he'd won would we not be allowed to still be happy about it 6 days later either?
This is sports. They're emotional investments over strangers, but I don't think anyone here has lost sight of reality. I'm sad he lost, but it's not like I forgot that I'm healthy, my family's healthy and I'm gainfully employed with a roof over my head. I can still be upset about it even if it doesn't have a tangible impact on my life. That's what being a sports fan is.
ghostofMecir
Legend
Andre’s insights are always interesting. In this case, he’s certainly right. Just as all-time great teams in team sports have multiple paths to victory, so does Roger. For example, in basketball, a team’s core strentth could be its offense or defense, but for great teams, it’s usually both with one of the two being “best in the league type.” They can outscore you or of that’s not working, they can defend and get stops, etc. Within those offenses and defenses, all-time great teams have multiple strengths (e.g., shooting, rebounding, ISO scoring, best offensive players being some of the best defensive players, etc.).
This is why Federer is seemingly always so difficult to defeat routinely, even at this age. He has the best combination of hold game and break game against other top players ever when considering all surfaces. But it’s also why he’s has so many matches in which he was seemingly the better player who lost anyway because most players who lose don’t have enough pathways to make a match competitive while Federer even at 38 does even when his go-to game isn’t winning the match. And then the closing mentality comes into play. Against Djokovic, other than the first TB in which he was in a winning position, he just didn’t exude the confidence that he was better in the TBs and should win and his UEs showed that.
—Federer can win and has won by serving well, attacking with the first FH, returning decently. But he’s also won by:
—He’s won by playing defense and outlasting opponents.
—He’s won by getting into every return game even when his own serve game falters.
—He’s won by camping out in the AD corner and turning most BHs into FHs.
—He’s won by winning BH rallies.
—He’s won matches of attrition, fast surface shot making matches, serve and volley duels, BH slice duels, by taking over the net, etc., etc.
His overall, all-around ability gives him so many opportunities on a game by game basis. Look at Wimbledon—the last player to win more points than Federer in a match was Raonic in 2016 and even then, that was after Federer had the match by the throat. Since he won Wimbledon in 2003, he’s had these losing dominance ratios:
2014 Djokovic, .90
2015 Djokovic, .91
2010 Berdych, .91
2016 Raonic, .96
In 16 years, he’s never been completely outplayed at Wimbledon and that’s crazy to think about. Even against Berdych he had chances to chsngenthr match.
2013 Stakovsky, 1.02
2008 Nadal, 1.02
2019 Djokovic, 1.15
2018 Anderson, 1.17
2011 Tsonga, 1.20
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
